What Is The Difference Between The Cross And The Resurrection?

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May 12, 2017
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#21
Trying to separate the cross from the resurrection is a lot like splitting a coin with different faces in two and claiming because the faces are different that the two sides of that coin do not belong together!

Without the resurrection any claims about the significance of the cross fall flat - they are totally meaningless!
(The enemies of Christianity devote an enormous amount of time time trying to disprove the resurrection. It started in the days just after the resurrection of Jesus Christ and continues unabated to this day.)
However, the resurrection unequivocally proves that the transactional claims of the cross (the sins of the world exchanged for the potential of eternal life by the shed blood of Jesus Christ) are in fact valid!
The Bible shows us clearly that the cross did 2 things:

1) Redemption/transference/deliverance from the powers of darkness

2) The Shed blood on the cross was for the forgiveness of SIN

The Tomb is where we are born again and raised into newness of life

To suggest they are inseparable, strands many at the cross....We hear about the cross and nothing about being raised into newness of life. We started seeing far too many people getting "saved" and still living like hell and still fighting the same old things and giving up on themselves...we fasted, prayed, asked, sought and knocked and the Holy Spirit answered.

We began teaching and preaching the cross and then separately the resurrection power and we saw many come to the cross, crucify the old man and then be raised into newness of life. The stopped living like hell., because they did not just mentally assent standing at the cross any more...they discovered the power of the new birth is being raised into newness of life and we saw empowering grace take over from saving grace and watched the Holy Spirit destroy the yokes, lift the burdens and change the lives.

This is not a 2 step plan to salvation. Resurrection power and the cross provide 2 very different things.

We teach far too much about the old man, and nothing about the new man and then when we do, we teach they are always fighting each other...

I believe we strand many mental assenters at the cross and do not tell them they have to die and then be raised into newness of life....
 
Sep 3, 2016
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#22
The Bible shows us clearly that the cross did 2 things:

1) Redemption/transference/deliverance from the powers of darkness

2) The Shed blood on the cross was for the forgiveness of SIN

The Tomb is where we are born again and raised into newness of life

To suggest they are inseparable, strands many at the cross....We hear about the cross and nothing about being raised into newness of life. We started seeing far too many people getting "saved" and still living like hell and still fighting the same old things and giving up on themselves...we fasted, prayed, asked, sought and knocked and the Holy Spirit answered.

We began teaching and preaching the cross and then separately the resurrection power and we saw many come to the cross, crucify the old man and then be raised into newness of life. The stopped living like hell., because they did not just mentally assent standing at the cross any more...they discovered the power of the new birth is being raised into newness of life and we saw empowering grace take over from saving grace and watched the Holy Spirit destroy the yokes, lift the burdens and change the lives.

This is not a 2 step plan to salvation. Resurrection power and the cross provide 2 very different things.

We teach far too much about the old man, and nothing about the new man and then when we do, we teach they are always fighting each other...

I believe we strand many mental assenters at the cross and do not tell them they have to die and then be raised into newness of life....
Do you understand "The Law Of The Spirit Of Life In Christ Jesus (Romans 8:2)?" And how it works?
 
Sep 3, 2016
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#26
I will pass thanks, I have no desire to get into a stump the chump with a swaggerite...
See post 15, 16, and 17. Post 16 explains "The Law Of The Spirit Of Life In Christ Jesus (Romans 8:2). Do you agree?

Do you agree that the Cross of Christ means the same as "The Finished Work of Christ" - "The Blood of Jesus?"
 
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Dec 9, 2011
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#27
Hello MessageOfTheCross
I copied this from another post,do you agree with It or If It needs more clarity,can you expound on this?

Yep he was AOG and they let him go even though he bribed them with his millions. He committed it over and over even after he was caught.

Jimmy, Donnie and Gabriel all say routinely on SBN that one cannot look at the resurrection anymore[Jimmie publicly started this nonsense almost 5 years ago], you must look to the cross. Donnie even said a few weeks ago that there is no power in resurrection, just the cross....They have turned the cross into an idol....

I was channel surfing a few months ago and Jimmie was preaching that the new man is found at the cross, not the tomb....that the new man comes off the cross...he said it is shocking he knows, but he got a "new "revelation from the Holy Ghost....


Jesus is not on the cross...yet swaggert keeps him there.
 
R

Robee

Guest
#29
Hi everyone!
I used to struggle with a lot of the great scriptures in Romans chapters 1-8 in terms of putting it all together and making sense of it all, not just plucking out some of the great scriptures found in these chapters which you can no doubt do and use them for personal edification.

This didn't come about until The Lord opened up the Cross and its meaning(not that it can be exhausted) to me. It was there all the time, Romans chapter 6 for example is all about the event of the Cross not just water baptism which is symbolic of what happened on the "Cross".
"The Cross" = The Work Christ(Messiah) accomplished on it, not the wooden beams obviously. Apostle Paul says in Romans 6:17 that this reality of our union with Christ must be received from & in the heart.

There's a basic 3 fold aspect to the Cross, it involves Jesus not only forging our past & present sins(plural) but also in the same "Cross" delivering Us from the source or root that causes sins, i.e. deliverance from "The Sin (singular) Nature" as opposed to Gods Divine Nature. The third aspect is as Apostle Paul described in 2 Cor 4:10 (we always carry around in our bodies the death of Jesus, so that the Life of Jesus may also be revealed in our bodies) i.e. a perpetual inward grace and power sufficient for all trials and temptations available to the believer.

You can summarise it this way:
Christ dying for our sins (Once For all forgiveness for the sinner
Christ dying as Us (Once For all deliverance as symbolised in water baptism from the Sin Nature)
Christ in Us (Daily power for living)


Most have been taught this truth for example; "it's no point God delivering His people from Sins unless He also equally deliver from the cause of Sins". This deals with Nature change rather than consequent Acts of Sin. The Church by and large has neglected this due to majoring on the Cross at Salvation for the Sinner/unbeliever at the expense of the Cross for total deliverance from the Sin Nature once saved. It's being Born Again,yes, however teaching on the change in Nature upon being Born again has been taught largely excluding the "Cross". Which is erroneous.

Simply, the Faith that saved the sinner from their sins is the same that will save & deliver from the Sin Nature. This Faith is a gift by Grace. Ephesians 2:8. But, the now believer must point it there, at the "Cross" and let it Rest there. The "Cross" must continue to be its object alone, then works & service have their place not before this (for the Believer).

The fundamentals for this are that in the Work of The Cross accomplished once for all by Jesus, there was an Exchange accomplished. Our Nature For His pure & sinless Life. This "exchange" is found in the following scripture (there are others but this is the most obvious) 2 Cor 5:21 "For he hath made him to sin for us, who knew no sin; that we might be made the righteousness of God in him." An exchange taking place is revealed here.

The other fact is that God has always stated that the life of anything with blood, is in the Blood. To God, the Life, the Soul and the blood are all one and the same with the living thing. He sees no distinction as such.

Leviticus 17:11
"11 For the life of the flesh is in the blood, and I have given it to you upon the altar to make atonement for your souls; for it is the blood that makes atonement for the soul."

Leviticus 17:14
"For it is the life of all flesh; the blood of it is for the life thereof: therefore I said unto the children of Israel, Ye shall eat the blood of no manner of flesh: for the life of all flesh is the blood thereof: whosoever eateth it shall be cut off."

If God didn't also change our fundamental nature upon forgiveness of sins then we would still be under His wrath, without reconciliation. He accomplished this Nature change at "The Cross", due to the Exchange accomplished there by God through Jesus.
He took the penalty and stroke due to Us, and in a miracle The (Righteous)Life in His shed blood was positionally transferred to Us. His Life is the very Nature of God(Righteousness). However this has to be appropriated like the forgiveness of sins is appropriated by simply trusting His Work on The Cross Alone. Grace! It, our trust, must be left to rest there and not mixed with anything else (our self- efforts, for example, or religious tradition or "good works" etc etc)

Apostle Paul declares this in Romans chpt 5.

Rom 5:9-10
"9 Much more then, having now been justified by His blood, we shall be saved from wrath through Him.
10 For if when we were enemies we were reconciled to God through the death of His Son, much more,
having been reconciled, we shall be saved by His life(i.e. the life in His precious blood poured out for Us)"

Try and work out these versus for example assuming that "life" mentioned there is a direct reference to the Resurrection and you will be frustrated no end. :)

verse 10 is interpreted by the previous verse 9. Verse 9 clearly declares His blood as that means (i.e. Context in interpretation). A life had to be presented to God worthy enough to restore Gods Honour and His broken eternal Law. We must avail of it.

Gods Nature of both Holiness and Love (Justice & Mercy) means that He must always act in this manner without wavering.
His Just Holy Righteous Nature deems that As Judge of the universe, to be fair(impartial), He Judge and punish sin and therefore the sinner. On the other hand His eternal Love & Mercy deems that He should forgive sin and therefore the sinner.

Quote:
"God, because in His Mercy, willed to forgive sinful men, and, being truly merciful, willed to forgive them righteously(Holily), that is, without in anyway condoning their sin, purposed to direct against His very own self, in the person of His Son, the full weight of that righteous wrath which they deserved"

Now, Jesus having accomplished all this and more on the Cross, warranted being gloriously raised from the dead in Power and Majesty. You can check out Apostle Paul's great passage of inspired Scripture in Philippians Chapter 2:5-13. Christ humbled Himself in His Obedient death on The Cross, Only then was He raised to His exulted position. Not before then. The obedience therefore that saves us is only at The Cross, what happened there alone?

Also, Hebrews chapter 1:8-9
"8 But to the Son He says:

verse 8“Your throne, O God, is forever and ever;
A scepter of righteousness is the scepter of Your kingdom.

verse 9 You have loved righteousness and hated lawlessness;[My addition: i.e. His Perfect Work on the Cross]
Therefore God, Your God, has anointed You
With the oil of gladness more than Your companions.”[g].[ My addition: i.e. Therefore God raised Him from the dead as a result,after making satisfaction by His sacrifice of obedience to God. It was perfection under suffering.]

Hope this helps
Rob.
 
Jun 1, 2016
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#30
I was looking at a thread earlier and In one of the post I saw something about the cross and the resurrection and what Jimmy Swaggert taught about the cross and the resurrection.

I wanted to open a discussion about this so I can get some knowledge about how would someone discribe the cross and the resurrection and why some like Swaggert think the resurrection Is not where the power Is?

when a person refuses to repent, they will always see Jesus dying for thier sins. when you begin to accept Jesus Words in the Gospel and follow where they Lead, you will begin to understand the empty tomb and the power of the resurrection, to offer a new Life here and now. its not only what were waiting for after our physical death, its something we share in Now resurrecting the inward Heart and leading to righteousness. Ive always wondered why people try to seperate the Word of Gods Gospel, from the death, and the death from the resurrection and ascention, its all the Gospel and works together for salvation.


a house is no good without a foundation, a foundation no good without a House, a House on a foundation is no good without a roof and floor and walls.....we need to believe He suffered as much as He did for our sins, because it turns the heart against sin, we Need the Knowledge of the resurrection, because it offers the Joy of new Life reconciled to God.
 

OneFaith

Senior Member
Sep 5, 2016
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#31
I was looking at a thread earlier and In one of the post I saw something about the cross and the resurrection and what Jimmy Swaggert taught about the cross and the resurrection.

I wanted to open a discussion about this so I can get some knowledge about how would someone discribe the cross and the resurrection and why some like Swaggert think the resurrection Is not where the power Is?
I agree. The gospel is the death, burial, and resurrection of Jesus. But the power is in the resurrection. If He wasn't resurrected, we wouldn't be resurrected.
 

p_rehbein

Senior Member
Sep 4, 2013
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#32
Regarding the question posed in the Title:


death...........................................LIFE
 
Sep 6, 2017
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#33
When proper order of things is in its rightful place then the true power in the resurrection is known like this.

Mt28:2 There was a violent earthquake, for an angel of the Lord came down from heaven and, going to the tomb, rolled back the stone and sat on it.
Mt28:3 His appearance was like lightning, and his clothes were white as snow.
Mt28:4 The guards were so afraid of him that they shook and became like dead men.
Mt27:52 The tombs broke open and the bodies of many holy people who had died were raised to life.
Mt27:53 They came out of the tombs, and after Jesus' resurrection they went into the holy city and appeared to many people.


The power in the T post crucifix, was of coarse when Jesus died that is when He took the worlds sin upon His shoulders in death.

today we call it the cross, reason for that is, it is symbolic picture of what was viewed by the people.

A Tee post crucifix with a another board nailed to the backside vertically behind the Tee post, that is were the notice Pilate had written was placed Thus the cross is that symbolization.
 
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7seasrekeyed

Guest
#34
I think sometimes people might forget that thousands of people died on the Roman cross. sometimes they literally lined the road with crucified 'criminals'

Jesus died a criminal's death...an accursed death...but He was completely innocent of breaking any laws...man's or God's

God raised Jesus from the dead. this is the same power that works in us who believe.

14For this reason I kneel before the Father, 15from whom every family[SUP]a[/SUP] in heaven and on earth derives its name.

16I pray that out of his glorious riches he may strengthen you with power through his Spirit in your inner being, 17so that Christ may dwell in your hearts through faith. And I pray that you, being rooted and established in love,

18may have power, together with all the Lord’s holy people, to grasp how wide and long and high and deep is the love of Christ, 19and to know this love that surpasses knowledge—that you may be filled to the measure of all the fullness of God.

20Now to him who is able to do immeasurably more than all we ask or imagine, according to his power that is at work within us, 21to him be glory in the church and in Christ Jesus throughout all generations, for ever and ever! Amen. Ephesians 3
 
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7seasrekeyed

Guest
#35
9You, however, are not in the realm of the flesh but are in the realm of the Spirit, if indeed the Spirit of God lives in you. And if anyone does not have the Spirit of Christ, they do not belong to Christ.

10But if Christ is in you, then even though your body is subject to death because of sin, the Spirit gives life[SUP]d[/SUP] because of righteousness.

11And if the Spirit of him who raised Jesus from the dead is living in you, he who raised Christ from the dead will also give life to your mortal bodies because of[SUP]e[/SUP] his Spirit who lives in you. Romans 8
 
Sep 6, 2017
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#36
I think sometimes people might forget that thousands of people died on the Roman cross. sometimes they literally lined the road with crucified 'criminals'

Jesus died a criminal's death...an accursed death...but He was completely innocent of breaking any laws...man's or God's

God raised Jesus from the dead. this is the same power that works in us who believe.

14For this reason I kneel before the Father, 15from whom every family[SUP]a[/SUP] in heaven and on earth derives its name.

16I pray that out of his glorious riches he may strengthen you with power through his Spirit in your inner being, 17so that Christ may dwell in your hearts through faith. And I pray that you, being rooted and established in love,

18may have power, together with all the Lord’s holy people, to grasp how wide and long and high and deep is the love of Christ, 19and to know this love that surpasses knowledge—that you may be filled to the measure of all the fullness of God.

20Now to him who is able to do immeasurably more than all we ask or imagine, according to his power that is at work within us, 21to him be glory in the church and in Christ Jesus throughout all generations, for ever and ever! Amen. Ephesians 3

In 73 b.c. a former slave and gladiator, the famous Spartacus, led a rebellion of escaped slaves against the Roman Republic. A prominent senator, Marcus Licinius Crassus, raised an army at his own expense, became their general and two years later led them into battle and crushed Spartacus and his slave rebellion. Crassus was the wealthiest man in the Roman Empire. Fabulously wealthy. Recently Forbes magazine published a list of the wealthiest people in history—Crassus was in the top ten, wealthier than any of the Roman emperors, Egyptian pharaohs or European kings. Forbes estimated Crassus’s wealth in contemporary dollars at $170 billion! Of course Crassus’s wealth was built on the backs of slaves, and thus his motivation to crush Spartacus and the slave rebellion.

After Crassus defeated Spartacus the senator was given a triumph on the Appian Way — the Roman victory parade. The road was lined with 6,000 crosses! Upon each cross was a crucified slave. The message was clear: This was how Rome dealt with threats to their interests. This event as much as any established crucifixion as the symbol of Roman ruthlessness when it came to suppressing their enemies. Later Crassus would finance the rise to power of an impoverished young man with political aspirations by the name of Julius Caesar. Goodbye Republic, hello Empire.



those crosses never were taken down, left standing until the actual wood rotted away,
 

Nehemiah6

Senior Member
Jul 18, 2017
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#37
Redemption is centered up totally in the Cross of Christ. While everything else after the Cross, the Resurrection, Ascension, and Exaltation of Christ, played a tremendous part, and continues to play a tremendous part, the truth is, all of this is made possible, the Resurrection, Ascension and Exaltation of Christ, because of the Cross.

Once again we see false doctrine coming from those who claim to be preaching the Gospel. The Gospel includes the death, burial AND RESURRECTION of Christ (1 Cor 15:1-3 and many other passages). So this is simply more false teaching which is unprofitable for Christians. Please note (Rom 4:25):

King James Bible
Who was delivered for our offences [the cross], and was raised again for our justification.


 
Sep 3, 2016
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#38
1 Corinthians 1:18 - For the Message of the Cross is foolishness (Spiritual things cannot be discerned by unredeemed people, but that doesn't matter; the Cross must be preached just the same, even as we shall see) to those who are perishing, but to us who are being saved it is the power of God. (The Cross is the Power of God simply because it was there that the total sin debt was paid, giving the Holy Spirit, in Whom the Power resides, latitudes to work mightily within our lives.)
 
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7seasrekeyed

Guest
#39

In 73 b.c. a former slave and gladiator, the famous Spartacus, led a rebellion of escaped slaves against the Roman Republic. A prominent senator, Marcus Licinius Crassus, raised an army at his own expense, became their general and two years later led them into battle and crushed Spartacus and his slave rebellion. Crassus was the wealthiest man in the Roman Empire. Fabulously wealthy. Recently Forbes magazine published a list of the wealthiest people in history—Crassus was in the top ten, wealthier than any of the Roman emperors, Egyptian pharaohs or European kings. Forbes estimated Crassus’s wealth in contemporary dollars at $170 billion! Of course Crassus’s wealth was built on the backs of slaves, and thus his motivation to crush Spartacus and the slave rebellion.

After Crassus defeated Spartacus the senator was given a triumph on the Appian Way — the Roman victory parade. The road was lined with 6,000 crosses! Upon each cross was a crucified slave. The message was clear: This was how Rome dealt with threats to their interests. This event as much as any established crucifixion as the symbol of Roman ruthlessness when it came to suppressing their enemies. Later Crassus would finance the rise to power of an impoverished young man with political aspirations by the name of Julius Caesar. Goodbye Republic, hello Empire.



those crosses never were taken down, left standing until the actual wood rotted away,

when I was a kid, child that is, not a goat (haha) I saw that old movie about Spartacus and I think they may have done a remake?

yeah, the Romans really like their crosses
 
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7seasrekeyed

Guest
#40
1 Corinthians 1:18 - For the Message of the Cross is foolishness (Spiritual things cannot be discerned by unredeemed people, but that doesn't matter; the Cross must be preached just the same, even as we shall see) to those who are perishing, but to us who are being saved it is the power of God. (The Cross is the Power of God simply because it was there that the total sin debt was paid, giving the Holy Spirit, in Whom the Power resides, latitudes to work mightily within our lives.)

you don't understand

thousands died on crosses

why was Jesus death any different?

BECAUSE HE ROSE FROM THE DEAD

to say what you are saying has to be spiritually discerned, is like trying to use 'magic' by telling us only those operating under whatever YOU are understanding, is THE truth

that does not work or you would be the judge

you are not and it seems you may be following a certain teaching that does not illustrate why Jesus was raised from the dead

I mean, seriously, what you are presenting is not even an option