What is the point in being a prophet?

[CS1]

12 “Most assuredly, I say to you, he who believes in Me, the works that I do he will do also; and greater works than these he will do, because I go to My Father. 13 And whatever you ask in My name, that I will do, that the Father may be glorified in the Son. 14 If you ask anything in My name, I will do it."

"Because I go to my Father" That's the qualifier for "greater works than these he (one who believes in Him) will do..."

We shouldn't get hung up on the word "greater". It's just the Greek word megas. It's a common word used many times in the New Testament. It is a word that assumes comparison: when something is "greater" there must be something by which its existence is measured. In this case, Jesus is comparing the works He did to the works one who believes in Him will do.

It would calm the soul if Jesus was referring to the larger, corporate Body of Christ. Then "greater" works could certainly be understood to be "broader and far-reaching" because of the vastness of the Body in the earth. But, no, He's referencing "he"... one man... one believer.

And then the qualifier: "Because I go to my Father"

By reading that again I'm immediately reminded of this passage (This is just two chapters later, by the way.):

“I still have many things to say to you, but you cannot bear them now. However, when He, the Spirit of truth, has come, He will guide you into all truth; for He will not speak on His own authority, but whatever He hears He will speak; and He will tell you things to come. He will glorify Me, for He will take of what is Mine and declare it to you. All things that the Father has are Mine. Therefore I said that He will take of Mine and declare it to you."

There is this synergistic exchange from the Father to the Son to the Spirit and then to men. By Jesus going to the Father, only then could all the Father have be disclosed to men. The men had to first be changed from their old creations into new ones, awakened by the Spirit, before the things of the Spirit could be delivered to them. Otherwise they would not be able to understand what the Spirit is saying to them. This is consistent with the principle of the new wine skin and new wine: No one puts new wine into old wine skins.

We can conclude that the revelation Paul and the apostles received after Jesus' death was greater than what Jesus shared with the disciples when He walked with them. Jesus, in His kindness, even teed up this conclusion for us in John 14 so that we would not stumble, either by ignorance or pride. For whatever differences we might perceive between the Gospels & epistles and the teachings of Jesus, we should conclude: greater than. "Greater than" can add and expand upon what Jesus taught. But, we must not think that what was added was different than what was in the mind of God: the words of the scriptures are the words of the Lord. The gospels, the epistles and Book of Revelation are the furtherance of "all the Father has", not a different story.

Grace and Peace

I agree with your " Greater " comment. The Context of greater is more of what Jesus did. Meaning seeing people saved, Healed and delivered

 

[CS1]

What demonic enabling can not counterfeit any alleged gifts you speak of?

That is why Christians have been told that certain temporary gifts have ceased.
It's for the protection of maturing saints, who would be confused and manipulated if not made aware.

It's spiritual warfare.....
It's not always nice.

But, the victory is glorious to those who remain true to the Word and do not walk by sight.

grace and peace ........

There is nothing in the word of God that states the gifts have ceased.

 

[Genez]

You have no scripture to state the gifts of the Holy Spirit stopped. Your Historical narrative is not truth.

Truth has been there.
And, you have constructed your list of rationales to counter them. Right?

It's an old fight.

 

[Genez]

There is nothing in the word of God that states the gifts have ceased.

And, you just exposed your inability to see, for us to see.

In Christ.

 

[Edify]

Christians can be inspiring, good, honest, & sometimes downright confused/confusing.
If it looks like a duck, walks like a duck, & sounds like a duck, guess what? It's a duck!

How is it then Acts 2 is a fulfilment of prophecy making christians, no matter their age, maturity, married, etc. God's mouthpieces to the world to speak for Him, yet they refuse to be labeled as 'prophets'? Worse yet, they will make up any doctrine to release them from their kingdom duties!
We have no trouble being kings & priests of the Kingdom later, but don't want to be a prophet to speak for God NOW?
The Great Commission is for christians, not specialized called-by-the-church leaders.
Christians need to believe God's word as they SAY they do, get over themselves, & get busy while there's still time.

 

[CS1]

And, you just exposed your inability to see, for us to see.

In Christ.

No, you have to provide the text. Just name-calling will not help prove your point. Provide the book, chapter, and verse if you can.

 

[CS1]

Truth has been there.
And, you have constructed your list of rationales to counter them. Right?

It's an old fight.

It's really old, huh? I would say it is more like an old opinion without Biblical support. I will ask again: Please provide the chapter AND VERSE.

 

[Aaron56]

seeing people saved, Healed and delivered

All portions of the gospel message.

The gospel, even for its spiritual nature, is most practical. This is true in all generations of men. Eternal realities are superlative to the temporal.

 

[CS1]

When one is asked time and time again to provide where in the word of God they have formulated their understanding, and they resort to insults or suggest you are incapable of understanding, that is the textbook example of a "FALSE Teacher." When they try to intimidate or use human intellect in a way to dismiss one, it only shows the lack of the Gifting to teach.

 

[CS1]

All portions of the gospel message.

The gospel, even for its spiritual nature, is most practical. This is true in all generations of men. Eternal realities are superlative to the temporal.

However the gifting of God is without repentance So every generation can know the God of Abraham, Issac, and Jacob

 

[Aaron56]

Christians can be inspiring, good, honest, & sometimes downright confused/confusing.
If it looks like a duck, walks like a duck, & sounds like a duck, guess what? It's a duck!

How is it then Acts 2 is a fulfilment of prophecy making christians, no matter their age, maturity, married, etc. God's mouthpieces to the world to speak for Him, yet they refuse to be labeled as 'prophets'? Worse yet, they will make up any doctrine to release them from their kingdom duties!
We have no trouble being kings & priests of the Kingdom later, but don't want to be a prophet to speak for God NOW?
The Great Commission is for christians, not specialized called-by-the-church leaders.
Christians need to believe God's word as they SAY they do, get over themselves, & get busy while there's still time.

Your post prompted a question in me "What is greater: being a son of God or being a prophet?"

The answer is, of course, being a son of God. The gifts will cease but our place in Him is eternal and will never cease. When we are all in the presence of the Lord no one needs to tell us about the Lord.

 

[Edify]

Your post prompted a question in me "What is greater: being a son of God or being a prophet?"

The answer is, of course, being a son of God. The gifts will cease but our place in Him is eternal and will never cease. When we are all in the presence of the Lord no one needs to tell us about the Lord.

Did you ever stop & think that the gifts will cease in a christian of sin-cursed flesh when we see Jesus face-to-face & be like Him?
Then, it's no longer a 'gift' , but a real, permanent part of who we will be.
Come quickly Lord Jesus!!!

 

[Edify]

What demonic enabling can not counterfeit any alleged gifts you speak of?

That is why Christians have been told that certain temporary gifts have ceased.
It's for the protection of maturing saints, who would be confused and manipulated if not made aware.

It's spiritual warfare.....
It's not always nice.

But, the victory is glorious to those who remain true to the Word and do not walk by sight.

grace and peace ........

Wait.... you believe in demonic enabling of false gifts, but not in the REAL ONES??
Just whose side are you on???

 

[Aaron56]

Did you ever stop & think that the gifts will cease in a christian of sin-cursed flesh when we see Jesus face-to-face & be like Him?
Then, it's no longer a 'gift' , but a real, permanent part of who we will be.
Come quickly Lord Jesus!!!

I understand what you're saying. But a gift already works that way. If we are given an endowment of power from One who has all power then it is actually ours to have and use. In a world controlled by an enemy, endowments of power are necessary.

However, we are never the plenary source of that power. And, because it did not originate with us, we are merely stewards of it for a time. Specifically, we are stewards of the endowment until the end of this current age.

Now, in the age to come, upon Christ's return, we will certainly be changed and given spiritual bodies appropriate for eternity. But, then, none of the gifts will be needed: our enemy will be defeated and there is no need for stewards when king has returned.

 

[Edify]

I understand what you're saying. But a gift already works that way. If we are given an endowment of power from One who has all power then it is actually ours to have and use. In a world controlled by an enemy, endowments of power are necessary.

However, we are never the plenary source of that power. And, because it did not originate with us, we are merely stewards of it for a time. Specifically, we are stewards of the endowment until the end of this current age.

Now, in the age to come, upon Christ's return, we will certainly be changed and given spiritual bodies appropriate for eternity. But, then, none of the gifts will be needed: our enemy will be defeated and there is no need for stewards when king has returned.

I dunno... the tree of life will be there for the healing of the nations, so somebody will need healing.

 

[Aaron56]

I dunno... the tree of life will be there for the healing of the nations, so somebody will need healing.

That's what it says but that's not what it means.

"I have this trophy for painting."
"Oh, so you paint with the trophy?"
[incredulous staring]

 

[Cameron143]

That's what it says but that's not what it means.

"I have this trophy for painting."
"Oh, so you paint with the trophy?"
[incredulous staring]

You will need different size trophies for the hard to get to places. I still have my trophy from when I won a punt-pass-and kick competition when I was 9. If it helps you can have it.

Incidentally, it's still around because back then trophies were made out of metal.

 

[jonchristian]

I used to sit around and discuss theological matters of great importance with other Christians. Now, I go out to the world and tell them about our Lord Jesus Christ. People hate me, reject me, cuss me, threaten me - however, others agree with me, pray with me, support me, and love me. I have certainly found more Christian support prophesying in the streets of Chicago and New York City than I have here on this website.

 

[CS1]

I used to sit around and discuss theological matters of great importance with other Christians. Now, I go out to the world and tell them about our Lord Jesus Christ. People hate me, reject me, cuss me, threaten me - however, others agree with me, pray with me, support me, and love me. I have certainly found more Christian support prophesying in the streets of Chicago and New York City than I have here on this website.

amen some on us can do both

 

[Genez]

No, you have to provide the text. Just name-calling will not help prove your point. Provide the book, chapter, and verse if you can.

Its in your corner,.

Give proof that the gifts you claim are for today? Are valid for today.

You can not prove that tongues are for today simply because some people enter into a trance.

You can not prove that what we see claimed for being tongues today serves the same function as tongues did in the early church.
They were to be a warning sign to those refusing to believe amongst Jews.

You have nothing to stand on, other some people today are vulnerable and hypnotizable...

Witches speak in tongues.
Tibetan monks have been known to speak in tongues.
Jim Jones of the Jones cult, spoke in tongues.

But, they were not the tongues of the Bible for the early church.

You must prove that tongues is for today in that case...
You can not do so.

There you have it...
Its in your court.