What is the proper salary for a pastor?

[trofimus]

Let us assume you like your job. Does that mean you shouldn't be paid for it?

If it does, PM me and I'll be happy to take your paycheck. lol

(Audi! Might get that Audi after all. Actually, alas, I did not marry a guy who likes Audi, so even if we had oodles, I'm still not getting the Audi. lol)

I was rather talking about the pastor's free time activities. Its natural that his activities will be related to Christianity (reading/studying the Bible, talking with people about God, organizing some church events), but why should he be paid for everything he does?

He should really get some award in the afterlife, not all here in the material world

 

[trofimus]

You aren't real good with figures, are you? ☺

I do not know, i was watching a comedy movie while creating it, something wrong? Did I create a comedy?

 

[breno785au]

If some church has 100 members, 25 are so poor that they give almost nothing, 50 are average, giving 10% of average salary and 25 are rich, giving for example 20% of average salary, then the pastor will get:

50*10% of average salary (= 50*$6,500 in the USA)
+
25*20% of average salary (=25*$13,000 in the USA)

= 325,000 + 325,000 = $650,000

So still, its very easy to be very rich in a small congregation with many poor people.

Such money should be rather used for a common good of all members than just for one. It would be really Christian, according to the book of Acts.

Yes that's true. I can only speak for myself but if that kind of money was coming my way as a church leader I'd tell people to keep their money lol

At the same time, I have experienced many people from low socio-economic backgrounds who use the church as a place of handout. There is little transformation and they do nothing to change their situations. Now I'm not saying this of all people. I'm just saying wisdom is needed.

 

[Depleted]

Lynn,
I want to say again that I really appreciate you approaching this controversial issue fairly and honestly.

I think we obviously have all kinds of issues going on here:
we have conmen making fortunes, we have decent pastors suffering far below the salaries they really need, we have people in the middle making a reasonable sounding income, we have pastors making large armounts at large churches quite probably because they are truly just extraordinary and blessed accordingly, and we probably have pastors making large amounts at large churches just because they're greedy or their governing body is ridiculous.

I think we have all kinds of different things going on.



So what would be some biblical principles governing these issues?


1. If you don't feel something is right at your church, you can talk to the pastors and elders, and share your thoughts, and see how they respond.


2. If you feel convicted they are not acting biblically and responsibly with money, you can choose to leave.


3. What are some bible principles to tell IF the church is acting biblically and responsibly with money?

Maybe this is where we should focus the discussion, and I'll just offer a small starting place.

A. Since there is no prescribed amount set for a pastor's salary, we have to arrive at it some other way.

B. There seem to be 3 general ways, that I can think of, to asses a salary:

1) Look at PRACTICAL CIRCUMSTANCES:
What can your church afford, what does your pastor need to reasonably live, what do your people feel is reasonable, what amount above his necessities do you want to give to bless him for his faithfulness etc. etc.

2) Look at the HEARTS OF THE PASTORS & ELDERS:
Examine their hearts to if they are good-hearted in their monetary decisions, or just greedy.

3) Look at BIBLICAL PRINCIPLES about MONETARY PRIORITIES:
What are the most important things to spend money on, and what should our monetary priorities be.
(Keep in mind that all three of these areas, even "practical circumstance" are covered by biblical principles.)

C. Further notes on LOOKING AT THE HEARTS OF THE PASTORS & ELDERS.
(One of the 3 assessment methods extrapolated.)

1) - The Bible says we CAN knows someone's heart.. at least the general direction of his heart.

2) - We can know someone's heart in 2 ways:

a) Examine the FRUITS OF HIS LIFE
We can examine spiritual fruits like his character and behavior, and physical fruits like accomplishments in ministry .. evangelizing, teaching, discipling, outreach, missions, etc)

b) Examining his WORDS
The bible says the mouth speaks out of the heart, so a person's words show his heart... if we listen long enough, and carefully enough.)




* These are a few quick thoughts about BIBLE PRINCIPLES governing this topic.
* I'm sure you guys can come up with a lot more.

I wouldn't mind being able to think in long-thoughts as well as you think in quick-thoughts. Yup. This works for me.

Now, if we can just get people out of the mind thought that "they have to make much less than me, or they're pond scum." I wouldn't want anyone to get paid less than me. And I do admire people following the Lord so much that they became pastor. That's a very special kind of person.

(Tried to rep you but spread-the-wealth. Funny. Don't remember repping you lately.)

Yup, yup, yup. I'm satisfied with this.

 

[Willie-T]

I do not know, i was watching a comedy movie while creating it, something wrong? Did I create a comedy?

The bare-bones cost of nothing more than our church mortgage, alone, is almost $5,000 a month. 60 K a year.

 

[Depleted]

No, in my opinion he shouldn’t make more than the average Christian. He is not more important, we are all on the same level, we all have our work in the Lord, only Christ is more important.

Do you reap 1% for your efforts? After all, given, IF Christians really did tithe a full 10%, you're asking the pastor to live on 10% of that 10%, which is 1%. And given, we never gave our full 10% to our church, (we like giving to people that need it as part of our tithe), it might well be less than 1%.

Even if he wasn't more important, you've made him much less important.

 

[OneFaith]

Current Federal M/W is $7.25 per hour. That is $290 a week BEFORE taxes. $1,160 a month, again, BEFORE taxes. Our small two-person household requires $3,300 a month to function.... and we have NO house payment.

Why do you want your pastor to exist like a pauper?

Why should I exist like a pauper? The first church shared equally. Why should me and my children ride bikes on the side of the freeway, in the cold, get mud flung on us, almost getting hit by cars, balancing groceries tied to handle bars, while the person who preaches to me teaches me to give, while he drives around in a luxury car? Preachers should not be hypocritics or see their brother or sister in need, have possessions, but show no pity? When he is missing a car it is a need, when I am missing a car it is not a need and I should just be grateful for what little I do have, oh and give twice as much as I receive.

 

[trofimus]

The bare-bones cost of nothing more than our church mortgage, alone, is almost $5,000 a month.

Again, I am not talking about your church, my example was just a proof of concept.

Of course, it will vary from church to church. Some church is new so needs a house, some is old and is meeting in the medieval church. Or the mortgage is already paid.
Some church needs to have LCD televisions, projectors, perfect musical band, some church needs just wooden chairs and electricity.

So depends. I just think its very easy to get very rich if one person concentrates money from several, even poor people.

 

[Depleted]

"If around 2 million people left Egypt, when the entire population has been estimated at around 3 to 4.5 million, it would have been noticed, and would have resounded in Egyptian records.

That said, as the Egyptologist Kenneth Kitchen points out, the Hebrew word for thousand, eleph, can mean different things depending upon context. It can even denote a group/clan or a leader/chief.
Elsewhere in the bible, "eleph" could not possibly mean "a thousand”. For example: 1 Kings 20:30 mentions a wall falling in Aphek that killed 27,000 men. If we translate eleph as leader, the text more sensibly says that 27 officers were killed by the falling wall.
By that logic, some scholars propose that the Exodus actually consisted of about 20,000 people."

read more: https://www.haaretz.com/jewish/archaeology/1.713849

Really can't help where you get your information from.

There was a census! The whole purpose of the book of NUMBERS. I can't help that you think that's fable.

 

[trofimus]

Really can't help where you get your information from.

There was a census! The whole purpose of the book of NUMBERS. I can't help that you think that's fable.

I posted the source. The Jewish newspaper haaretz.

To say there were 600 clans or chiefleaders is also a "census".

Logically, do you think that 2 million people left from 3million Egypt, leaving just 1/3 of inhabitants behind (and after serveral plagues, firstborns dead, decimated) without any evidence in history?

 

[OneFaith]

Do you reap 1% for your efforts? After all, given, IF Christians really did tithe a full 10%, you're asking the pastor to live on 10% of that 10%, which is 1%. And given, we never gave our full 10% to our church, (we like giving to people that need it as part of our tithe), it might well be less than 1%.

Even if he wasn't more important, you've made him much less important.

10% of a congregation contribution of 200 members is not 1%. If a member gives 1% without legit reason they are sinning too- cause that’s selfishness and greed.

 

[beastslayer1970]

Why should I exist like a pauper? The first church shared equally. Why should me and my children ride bikes on the side of the freeway, in the cold, get mud flung on us, almost getting hit by cars, balancing groceries tied to handle bars, while the person who preaches to me teaches me to give, while he drives around in a luxury car? Preachers should not be hypocritics or see their brother or sister in need, have possessions, but show no pity? When he is missing a car it is a need, when I am missing a car it is not a need and I should just be grateful for what little I do have, oh and give twice as much as I receive.

Do you give with a cheerful heart, you sound a little peeved and angry and bitter.

 

[Depleted]

Correct. He should have just enough to live on, not to have a fancy house with a fancy car.

I think a fancy house is a twin house. I think a fancy car is a car made in this century. (I cannot imagine what it is like to have GPS in the car, and not to need a portable device for music. Also can't imagine how people drive those cars with lots of LCD displays telling them they're traveling NW right now. How does that not distract you from driving?) Am I above or below what you deem "fancy house" and "fancy car?" And who gets to determine which one of us is right?

 

[Willie-T]

We just put a new roof on. That was more than 100 k. Painting the building was about 30 k. We will soon have to repave the parking lot. That will run close to 200 K. New carpeting will be around 100 k.

And we have not even mentioned the 400 people we feed each month... nor their clothing.... and Family Promise that we are a part of (Look up "Family Promise of Pinellas")... and the Pinellas Hope Tent City we feed and shelter... and the average of about 5 k a month that goes out for general handouts.

Then we get into the expense of running the place. (Taxes and insurance has not been mentioned.) And the list could go on and on.

 

[Depleted]

Oh I see, you’re right I misspoke. He shouldn’t make more than the poor people of the congregation.

I am a poor people. Seriously? You think a pastor shouldn't make over $950 a month? Why bother? I can make that much on Disability.

I think a pastor is owed more than I get on Disability!

 

[trofimus]

I posted the source. The Jewish newspaper haaretz.

To say there were 600 clans or chiefleaders is also a "census".

Logically, do you think that 2 million people left from 3million Egypt, leaving just 1/3 of inhabitants behind (and after serveral plagues, firstborns dead, decimated) without any evidence in history?

And then whole the Egyptian army destroyed in the Red Sea.

Such weakened Egypt would be immediately conquered by some other nation. It would be in records.

But records show no such problems in Egypt in those times.

 

[Depleted]

Current Federal M/W is $7.25 per hour. That is $290 a week BEFORE taxes. $1,160 a month, again, BEFORE taxes. Our small two-person household requires $3,300 a month to function.... and we have NO house payment.

Why do you want your pastor to exist like a pauper?

Noooo!

I thought it got all the way up to $7.50 an hour! I had to laugh, because I remember thinking I was making good money at that wage.

How about that! 26 years later, and it's still good money! lol

 

[Willie-T]

I think a fancy house is a twin house. I think a fancy car is a car made in this century. (I cannot imagine what it is like to have GPS in the car, and not to need a portable device for music. Also can't imagine how people drive those cars with lots of LCD displays telling them they're traveling NW right now. How does that not distract you from driving?) Am I above or below what you deem "fancy house" and "fancy car?" And who gets to determine which one of us is right?

Right. I drive a 1988 truck, and my wife drives a 1999 car. Our house is less than 1,000 sf.

 

[beastslayer1970]

We just put a new roof on. That was more than 100 k. Painting the building was about 30 k. We will soon have to repave the parking lot. That will run close to 200 K. New carpeting will be around 100 k.

And we have not even mentioned the 400 people we feed each month... nor their clothing.... and Family Promise that we are a part of (Look up "Family Promise of Pinellas")... and the Pinellas Hope Tent City we feed and shelter... and the average of about 5 k a month that goes out for general handouts.

Then we get into the expense of running the place. (Taxes and insurance has not been mentioned.) And the list could go on and on.

Taxes? are you guys not a 501 3c?

 

[trofimus]

Right. I drive a 1988 truck, and my wife drives a 1999 car. Our house is less than 1,000 sf.

I have never had a car and I live in 36m2 apartment

But! I bought new Greek New Testament for myself this week, for 35 euros. What a great Christmas!