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The "average" salary in the US is $45,000. $35,000 or under is consider poverty level.
I live in a blue-collar (tradesmen) section of my city. The "average salary" for trades is about $70,000, (give or take, depending on what trade.) Uptown, (we call it "Center City,") is where the white-collar businessmen live. Their average salary is $250,000ish. (Also depends on how white-collar they are -- middle management or CEOs. CEOs make a lot more, assuming mid-size to large corporation. $250,000 would be CEO of small company.) BTW, the only people who could afford an apartment in Manhattan at Philly wages would be the ones making $250,000 and then suddenly? They're no longer rich. They're lower middle class.
Above Center City, we have North Philly. North Philly is our ghetto. They tend to make -- if they can get a job at all -- about what your country considers average. Minimum wage, full time work here grosses $15,200 a year. Here? Here we call that dirt-poor.
The average price for a one-bedroom apartment is $1200 in this country.
It has a lot to do with where you live and where you work. Really hard to judge how another country lives.
I live in a blue-collar (tradesmen) section of my city. The "average salary" for trades is about $70,000, (give or take, depending on what trade.) Uptown, (we call it "Center City,") is where the white-collar businessmen live. Their average salary is $250,000ish. (Also depends on how white-collar they are -- middle management or CEOs. CEOs make a lot more, assuming mid-size to large corporation. $250,000 would be CEO of small company.) BTW, the only people who could afford an apartment in Manhattan at Philly wages would be the ones making $250,000 and then suddenly? They're no longer rich. They're lower middle class.
Above Center City, we have North Philly. North Philly is our ghetto. They tend to make -- if they can get a job at all -- about what your country considers average. Minimum wage, full time work here grosses $15,200 a year. Here? Here we call that dirt-poor.
The average price for a one-bedroom apartment is $1200 in this country.
It has a lot to do with where you live and where you work. Really hard to judge how another country lives.
Well, I can't say what s acceptable or not, that is up to the congregation/denomination etc. I would say (as I said in my earlier post) that as a starting point and only a starting point a congregation could look at what is the average wage in their area or congregation.
As regards to the big names (as we say) they are a minority and apart from ministerial salaries)stipends) have other streams of revenue, usually by book royalties , or seminary teaching pay etc etc.
There is nothing wrong with having or making a lot of money whether a minister or not.. the question for those who do is - are they good stewards of that money for the kingdom?
Most churches around the globe have 100 or less people, and therefore we will find the majority of Pastors/ministers are on either an average wage (for their area) and probably most commonly less than average. Usually the 2 reasons why most are on small wages is:
1. the congregation is really just to small to support a full time wage.
2. the congregation are stingy in giving to their churches needs, and more probable jealous that the minister might be getting more than them!!!!
The big paid minsters are very few in the scheme of things. But, we must not confuse the issue with Pastors/miniters who do get good salaries with those who tout the prosperity gospel and its message as is often the case.
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You do realize you just got all bent out of shape over a pastor making $250,000. And how $18,000 is average salary in your country. Are you loving the money? Because, depending on where you live in the States, $250,000 may not be all that much money. (Granted, I'd take it, but then again I know I have to beware of where my love comes from and goes. After all, I still want that Audi. lol)
I used to belong to a church where the average member was upper-middle class, so could afford to pay a pastor equal money. Funny thing. They didn't. They chose pastors who already made enough money in a secular job to afford to be pastor for pittance. And they got what they paid for.
I used to belong to a church where the average member was upper-middle class, so could afford to pay a pastor equal money. Funny thing. They didn't. They chose pastors who already made enough money in a secular job to afford to be pastor for pittance. And they got what they paid for.
Over here vicars of the main denomination have the job until they retire.
They normally spend a few years in one parish then are moved on to the next.
If they leave the pension payments stop and they draw the pension when they eventually retire.
The church I go to is not post of main denominations over here.
We have a board of trustees who set the salary and pension payments.
Anything paid outside of that, like expenses are noted in the accounts.
Salary and pension payments are not, but the figures are freely available on request
Also we have had leaders who have had books published and have been happy for the royalties to be paid to the local church or to the central church that oversees the local churches.
I do the accounts for a small independent church.
The leader is paid nothing. Last year they gave him a gift of £500.
I have to note that in the accounts.
Do there is some regulatory control.
They normally spend a few years in one parish then are moved on to the next.
If they leave the pension payments stop and they draw the pension when they eventually retire.
The church I go to is not post of main denominations over here.
We have a board of trustees who set the salary and pension payments.
Anything paid outside of that, like expenses are noted in the accounts.
Salary and pension payments are not, but the figures are freely available on request
Also we have had leaders who have had books published and have been happy for the royalties to be paid to the local church or to the central church that oversees the local churches.
I do the accounts for a small independent church.
The leader is paid nothing. Last year they gave him a gift of £500.
I have to note that in the accounts.
Do there is some regulatory control.
If we are expecting fossilized remains, it won't happen. The Biblical record should be examined carefully and accepted as totally reliable. Got Questions has an answer which could be close to the truth (approx 3 million).
Scholars believe that the total number of Israelites who left Egypt during the exodus, women and children and old men included, was around 2.4 million people. If we include Egyptians who chose to join the Israelites, the number would be even greater: “Many other people went up with them, and also large droves of livestock, both flocks and herds” (Exodus 12:38).
Since this has ended up inappropriately in this thread, "shepherd" Moses was not making a dime from these 3 million. And the prosperity preachers would say that he lost a *golden* opportunity to fleece his flock!
Instead he took the gold, ground it into powder, and made those idolatrous Israelites drink this concoction for their idolatry.
Scholars believe that the total number of Israelites who left Egypt during the exodus, women and children and old men included, was around 2.4 million people. If we include Egyptians who chose to join the Israelites, the number would be even greater: “Many other people went up with them, and also large droves of livestock, both flocks and herds” (Exodus 12:38).
Since this has ended up inappropriately in this thread, "shepherd" Moses was not making a dime from these 3 million. And the prosperity preachers would say that he lost a *golden* opportunity to fleece his flock!
Instead he took the gold, ground it into powder, and made those idolatrous Israelites drink this concoction for their idolatry.
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OK, you can have higher apartment prices. You will have also more expensive hospital bills.
According to wiki, average salary in the USA is 60,154. I think its strange if a servant of God wants to have 10x more.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_average_wage
According to wiki, average salary in the USA is 60,154. I think its strange if a servant of God wants to have 10x more.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_average_wage
Paul says lots, Messiah says do it for free:
[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]1 Corinthians 9:14, "In the same way, the Lord has commanded that those who preach the gospel should receive their living from the gospel."[/FONT]
[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]1 Timothy 5:17-18, “Elders who handle their duties well should be considered worthy of double compensation, especially those who work hard at preaching and teaching. For the Scripture says, “You must not muzzle an ox while it is treading out grain,” and “A worker deserves his pay.”[/FONT]
[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]1 Corinthians 9:11-12, “If we have sown spiritual seed among you, is it too much if we reap material benefits from you? If others enjoy this right over you, don’t we have a stronger claim? But we did not use this right. On the contrary, we tolerate everything in order not to put an obstacle in the way of the gospel of the Messiah.”[/FONT]
[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Matthew 10:7-8, “As you go, proclaim, ‘The kingdom of heaven is near! Heal the sick, raise the dead, cleanse lepers, drive out demons. Without payment you have received; without payment you are to give.”[/FONT]
[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]1 Corinthians 9:14, "In the same way, the Lord has commanded that those who preach the gospel should receive their living from the gospel."[/FONT]
[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]1 Timothy 5:17-18, “Elders who handle their duties well should be considered worthy of double compensation, especially those who work hard at preaching and teaching. For the Scripture says, “You must not muzzle an ox while it is treading out grain,” and “A worker deserves his pay.”[/FONT]
[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]1 Corinthians 9:11-12, “If we have sown spiritual seed among you, is it too much if we reap material benefits from you? If others enjoy this right over you, don’t we have a stronger claim? But we did not use this right. On the contrary, we tolerate everything in order not to put an obstacle in the way of the gospel of the Messiah.”[/FONT]
[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Matthew 10:7-8, “As you go, proclaim, ‘The kingdom of heaven is near! Heal the sick, raise the dead, cleanse lepers, drive out demons. Without payment you have received; without payment you are to give.”[/FONT]
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Did you know the Sphinx was build in pastoral land, that then became wet lands, before it was buried in the desert? When they found it again, there was algae on it that could only be found is swamps. And they found it under a ton of sand!
Of course there is no archaeological evidence. It was a wasteland, so who is building the structures that serve through this much time to be archaeological evidence?
Then again, there is historical evidence. Josephus was one of many who talked about Moses leading out a herd of people, and he wrote over a millennium later, (and got some of it wrong. lol) AND, the Bible most certainly counts as historical evidence.
Of course there is no archaeological evidence. It was a wasteland, so who is building the structures that serve through this much time to be archaeological evidence?
Then again, there is historical evidence. Josephus was one of many who talked about Moses leading out a herd of people, and he wrote over a millennium later, (and got some of it wrong. lol) AND, the Bible most certainly counts as historical evidence.
Seems like some people want to impose rules and regulations on their leaders where none exist.
I think it should be a decision made amongst the leaders of a congregation with open books.
I find there are a lot of brothers and sisters who have great concerns about money, which is fair. But we also need to check our own hearts, the love of money not only belongs to the rich but for also for those who have a poverty mentality also!
I think it should be a decision made amongst the leaders of a congregation with open books.
I find there are a lot of brothers and sisters who have great concerns about money, which is fair. But we also need to check our own hearts, the love of money not only belongs to the rich but for also for those who have a poverty mentality also!