What is the spirit and soul

[Red33]

Curious......
Will anyone here be upset when they breathe their last breath here on earth, and IMMEDIATELY are in the presence of Christ.....in paradise.....awaiting ....well, you know .
Seeing that we shall all know the truth then, we'll probably have a chuckle, and be quite happy with the truth.

Good one!!!!

 

[shroom2]

Curious......
Will anyone here be upset when they breathe their last breath here on earth, and IMMEDIATELY are in the presence of Christ.....in paradise.....awaiting ....well, you know .
Seeing that we shall all know the truth then, we'll probably have a chuckle, and be quite happy with the truth.

When Christ returns and the dead in Christ are raised and those living are changed, we won't be "awaiting" anything. We will be with the Lord, in our new bodies.

 

[Red33]

When Christ returns and the dead in Christ are raised and those living are changed, we won't be "awaiting" anything. We will be with the Lord, in our new bodies.

You were asked earlier, according to your doctrine, how a believer could be absent from the body and present with the Lord. Paul made that claim in (2Cor 5:6-8), can you explain how that could happen or was Paul trying to illustrate something that could never happen?

6 Therefore we are always confident, knowing that, whilst we are at home in the body, we are absent from the Lord:
7 (For we walk by faith, not by sight).
8 We are confident, I say, and willing rather to be absent from the body, and to be present with the Lord.

 

[Laodicea]

You were asked earlier, according to your doctrine, how a believer could be absent from the body and present with the Lord. Paul made that claim in (2Cor 5:6-8), can you explain how that could happen or was Paul trying to illustrate something that could never happen?

6 Therefore we are always confident, knowing that, whilst we are at home in the body, we are absent from the Lord:
7 (For we walk by faith, not by sight).
8 We are confident, I say, and willing rather to be absent from the body, and to be present with the Lord.

2 Corinthians 5:1-8
(1) For we know that if our earthly house of this tabernacle were dissolved, we have a building of God, an house not made with hands, eternal in the heavens.
(2) For in this we groan, earnestly desiring to be clothed upon with our house which is from heaven:
(3) If so be that being clothed we shall not be found naked.
(4) For we that are in this tabernacle do groan, being burdened: not for that we would be unclothed, but clothed upon, that mortality might be swallowed up of life.
(5) Now he that hath wrought us for the selfsame thing is God, who also hath given unto us the earnest of the Spirit.
(6) Therefore we are always confident, knowing that, whilst we are at home in the body, we are absent from the Lord:
(7) (For we walk by faith, not by sight
(8) We are confident, I say, and willing rather to be absent from the body, and to be present with the Lord.

If you read the context Paul is referring to when we receive our new bodies
1 Corinthians 15:51-55
(51) Behold, I shew you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed,
(52) In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed.
(53) For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality.
(54) So when this corruptible shall have put on incorruption, and this mortal shall have put on immortality, then shall be brought to pass the saying that is written, Death is swallowed up in victory.
(55) O death, where is thy sting? O grave, where is thy victory?

Notice verse 4 which says "mortality swallowed up in life and Corinthians tells us when this will happen

 

[Laodicea]

Genesis 2:7
(7) And the LORD God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul.

These texts show other words translated from the same word as soul highlighted in red
Genesis 1:21
(21) And God created great whales, and every living creature that moveth, which the waters brought forth abundantly, after their kind, and every winged fowl after his kind: and God saw that it was good.
Genesis 23:8
(8) And he communed with them, saying, If it be your mind that I should bury my dead out of my sight; hear me, and intreat for me to Ephron the son of Zohar,
Genesis 36:6
(6) And Esau took his wives, and his sons, and his daughters, and all the persons of his house, and his cattle, and all his beasts, and all his substance, which he had got in the land of Canaan; and went into the country from the face of his brother Jacob.
Exodus 12:16
(16) And in the first day there shall be an holy convocation, and in the seventh day there shall be an holy convocation to you; no manner of work shall be done in them, save that which every man must eat, that only may be done of you.
Exodus 23:9
(9) Also thou shalt not oppress a stranger: for ye know the heart of a stranger, seeing ye were strangers in the land of Egypt.
Leviticus 2:1
(1) And when any will offer a meat offering unto the LORD, his offering shall be of fine flour; and he shall pour oil upon it, and put frankincense thereon:
Leviticus 4:27
(27) And if any one of the common people sin through ignorance, while he doeth somewhat against any of the commandments of the LORD concerning things which ought not to be done, and be guilty;
Leviticus 11:10
(10) And all that have not fins and scales in the seas, and in the rivers, of all that move in the waters, and of any living thing which is in the waters, they shall be an abomination unto you:
Leviticus 11:44
(44) For I am the LORD your God: ye shall therefore sanctify yourselves, and ye shall be holy; for I am holy: neither shall ye defile yourselves with any manner of creeping thing that creepeth upon the earth.
Leviticus 17:11
(11) For the life of the flesh is in the blood: and I have given it to you upon the altar to make an atonement for your souls: for it is the blood that maketh an atonement for the soul.
Leviticus 21:11
(11) Neither shall he go in to any dead body, nor defile himself for his father, or for his mother;
Leviticus 24:18
(18) And he that killeth a beast shall make it good; beast for beast.
Leviticus 26:16
(16) I also will do this unto you; I will even appoint over you terror, consumption, and the burning ague, that shall consume the eyes, and cause sorrow of heart: and ye shall sow your seed in vain, for your enemies shall eat it.

All the words in red are translated from the same word as soul. So then according to this what is the soul?

I want to bring this forward to ask the question to all. What is the soul according to these scriptures?

 

[Laodicea]

Soul in the New Testament, words highlighted in red
Matthew 10:28
(28) And fear not them which kill the body, but are not able to kill the soul: but rather fear him which is able to destroy both soul and body in hell.
Matthew 10:39
(39) He that findeth his life shall lose it: and he that loseth his life for my sake shall find it.
Ephesians 6:6
(6) Not with eyeservice, as menpleasers; but as the servants of Christ, doing the will of God from the heart;
Philippians 1:27
(27) Only let your conversation be as it becometh the gospel of Christ: that whether I come and see you, or else be absent, I may hear of your affairs, that ye stand fast in one spirit, with one mind striving together for the faith of the gospel;

All the words in red are translated from the same word as soul so then to put all of these verses together from both the OT and NT what is the soul?

I want to bring this forward to ask the question to all. What is the soul according to these scriptures?

 

[shroom2]

You were asked earlier, according to your doctrine, how a believer could be absent from the body and present with the Lord. Paul made that claim in (2Cor 5:6-8), can you explain how that could happen or was Paul trying to illustrate something that could never happen?

6 Therefore we are always confident, knowing that, whilst we are at home in the body, we are absent from the Lord:
7 (For we walk by faith, not by sight).
8 We are confident, I say, and willing rather to be absent from the body, and to be present with the Lord.

Sorry I missed this earlier.

It's not hard. When Christ returns, we will be absent from the body and present with the Lord.

I'm sure willing for the Lord to return so I can vacate this achy body that's getting old. But I sure don't want to vacate it before he does return. I'll be dead. I'd rather be alive than dead, waiting in the grave (even though time will pass in an instant).

 

[Spiritual_Plague]

When Christ returns, you will not be absent from the body. When Christ returns our bodies will be redeemed and raised.

Rom 8:23 Not only [that], but we also who have the firstfruits of the Spirit, even we ourselves groan within ourselves, eagerly waiting for the adoption, the redemption of our body.

Eph 1:14 who is the guarantee of our inheritance until the redemption of the purchased possession, to the praise of His glory.

1Th 4:16 For the Lord Himself will descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of an archangel, and with the trumpet of God. And the dead in Christ will rise first.


There is absolutely NO way that 2 Cor 5:6-8 is a reference to Jesus returning:

6 Therefore we are always confident, knowing that, whilst we are at home in the body, we are absent from the Lord:
7 (For we walk by faith, not by sight).
8 We are confident, I say, and willing rather to be absent from the body, and to be present with the Lord.

This passage is speaking of death before Christ returns.

When you die before Christ comes, you will be with Him in heaven until He comes back to the Earth and redeems our physical bodies. Then we will raise from the dead.

 

[Laodicea]

When Christ returns, you will not be absent from the body. When Christ returns our bodies will be redeemed and raised.

Rom 8:23 Not only [that], but we also who have the firstfruits of the Spirit, even we ourselves groan within ourselves, eagerly waiting for the adoption, the redemption of our body.

Eph 1:14 who is the guarantee of our inheritance until the redemption of the purchased possession, to the praise of His glory.

1Th 4:16 For the Lord Himself will descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of an archangel, and with the trumpet of God. And the dead in Christ will rise first.


There is absolutely NO way that 2 Cor 5:6-8 is a reference to Jesus returning:

6 Therefore we are always confident, knowing that, whilst we are at home in the body, we are absent from the Lord:
7 (For we walk by faith, not by sight).
8 We are confident, I say, and willing rather to be absent from the body, and to be present with the Lord.

This passage is speaking of death before Christ returns.

When you die before Christ comes, you will be with Him in heaven until He comes back to the Earth and redeems our physical bodies. Then we will raise from the dead.

When Christ returns we will be absent from our corrupt mortal bodies and put on a new immortal incorruptible body
2 Corinthians 5:1-2
(1) For we know that if our earthly house of this tabernacle were dissolved, we have a building of God, an house not made with hands, eternal in the heavens.
(2) For in this we groan, earnestly desiring to be clothed upon with our house which is from heaven:
1 Corinthians 15:53-54
(53) For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality.
(54) So when this corruptible shall have put on incorruption, and this mortal shall have put on immortality, then shall be brought to pass the saying that is written, Death is swallowed up in victory.

 

[Spiritual_Plague]

When Christ returns we will be absent from our corrupt mortal bodies and put on a new immortal incorruptible body
2 Corinthians 5:1-2
(1) For we know that if our earthly house of this tabernacle were dissolved, we have a building of God, an house not made with hands, eternal in the heavens.
(2) For in this we groan, earnestly desiring to be clothed upon with our house which is from heaven:
1 Corinthians 15:53-54
(53) For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality.
(54) So when this corruptible shall have put on incorruption, and this mortal shall have put on immortality, then shall be brought to pass the saying that is written, Death is swallowed up in victory.

...you will not be absent from the body since you are in the body at the resurrection. The mortal body will be clothed in immortality.

So when the dead are raised, are they in the body??

Indeed they are.

Christ rose out of his grave, nail prints and pierced side visible from his "old tent", but it was further clothed in immortality, never to die again. A body of flesh and bone.

Others rose from the dead after Christ defeated the grave...how did they raise?

Mat 27:52-53
52 and the graves were opened; and many bodies of the saints who had fallen asleep were raised; 53 and coming out of the graves after His resurrection, they went into the holy city and appeared to many.

Saints had risen from the dead, and their bodies came out of the graves...just like Jesus.

So, with a few examples we can better understand the resurrection of the dead when we see the passage from 2nd Cor 5 and 1 Cor. 15.

Context is great too:
2Cr 5: 4 For we who are in [this] tent groan, being burdened, not because we want to be unclothed, but further clothed, that mortality may be swallowed up by life. 5 Now He who has prepared us for this very thing [is] God, who also has given us the Spirit as a guarantee. 6 So [we are] always confident, knowing that while we are at home in the body we are absent from the Lord. 7 For we walk by faith, not by sight. 8 We are confident, yes, well pleased rather to be absent from the body and to be present with the Lord. 9 Therefore we make it our aim, whether present or absent, to be well pleasing to Him. 10 For we must all appear before the judgment seat of Christ, that each one may receive the things [done] in the body, according to what he has done, whether good or bad.


If you are telling me you're not going to be in the body at the resurrection, and the dead in Christ are raised first....you worry me lol

 

[Laodicea]

If you are telling me you're not going to be in the body at the resurrection, and the dead in Christ are raised first....you worry me lol

I will be absent from my earthly corruptible mortal body and clothed with a new incorruptible immortal body.

 

[Spiritual_Plague]

So, when Jesus' pierced side and nail prints were still visible, it wasn't his mortal body that had put on immortality then?? His new incorruptible immortal body was made, and the nail prints and pierced side were fabricated on his new body.

Is that what you are saying?

 

[Laodicea]

So, when Jesus' pierced side and nail prints were still visible, it wasn't his mortal body that had put on immortality then?? His new incorruptible immortal body was made, and the nail prints and pierced side were fabricated on his new body.

Is that what you are saying?

Jesus could have risen in a body free of scars but, He chose to carry those scars throughout eternity.
Philippians 3:21
(21) Who shall change our vile body, that it may be fashioned like unto his glorious body, according to the working whereby he is able even to subdue all things unto himself.
1 John 3:2
(2) Beloved, now are we the sons of God, and it doth not yet appear what we shall be: but we know that, when he shall appear, we shall be like him; for we shall see him as he is.
1 Corinthians 15:53-54
(53) For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality.
(54) So when this corruptible shall have put on incorruption, and this mortal shall have put on immortality, then shall be brought to pass the saying that is written, Death is swallowed up in victory.

2 Kings 5:14
(14) Then went he down, and dipped himself seven times in Jordan, according to the saying of the man of God: and his flesh came again like unto the flesh of a little child, and he was clean.

When Naaman washed in the Jordan river his skin became as a baby, he was free of all blemishes

 

[Laodicea]

Ezekiel 18:4
(4) Behold, all souls are mine; as the soul of the father, so also the soul of the son is mine: the soul that sinneth, it shall die.
Ezekiel 18:20
(20) The soul that sinneth, it shall die. The son shall not bear the iniquity of the father, neither shall the father bear the iniquity of the son: the righteousness of the righteous shall be upon him, and the wickedness of the wicked shall be upon him.
Leviticus 21:11
(11) Neither shall he go in to any dead body, nor defile himself for his father, or for his mother;

The word body highlighted in red is translated from the same word as soul, so it could read dead soul. It shows that the soul dies when a person dies.

 

[krisbrian]

You have to understand that death does not mean extinction. It means separation. Physical death is the separation of the body and spirit, and spiritual death is the separation of the spirit from God.

Can the spirit and soul die? Yes, when it is separated from God. A lot of people are walking dead men.

 

[Laodicea]

You have to understand that death does not mean extinction. It means separation. Physical death is the separation of the body and spirit, and spiritual death is the separation of the spirit from God.

Read these verses and tell me what is the spirit

http://christianchat.com/bible-discussion-forum/38496-what-spirit-soul.html#post653427

 

[krisbrian]

Read these verses and tell me what is the spirit

http://christianchat.com/bible-discussion-forum/38496-what-spirit-soul.html#post653427

The spirit is more than just breath. Is God just a breath?

Joh 4:24 God is a breath: and they that worship him must worship him in breath and in truth.

Mat 12:43 When the unclean breath is gone out of a man, he walketh through dry places, seeking rest, and findeth none.

1Pe 3:19 By which also he went and breathes unto the spirits in prison;

pneuma
Thayer Definition:
1) the third person of the triune God, the Holy Spirit, coequal, coeternal with the Father and the Son
1a) sometimes referred to in a way which emphasises his personality and character (the \\Holy\\ Spirit)
1b) sometimes referred to in a way which emphasises his work and power (the Spirit of \\Truth\\)
1c) never referred to as a depersonalised force
2) the spirit, i.e. the vital principal by which the body is animated
2a) the rational spirit, the power by which the human being feels, thinks, decides
2b) the soul
3) a spirit, i.e. a simple essence, devoid of all or at least all grosser matter, and possessed of the power of knowing, desiring, deciding, and acting
3a) a life giving spirit
3b) a human soul that has left the body
3c) a spirit higher than man but lower than God, i.e. an angel
3c1) used of demons, or evil spirits, who were conceived as inhabiting the bodies of men
3c2) the spiritual nature of Christ, higher than the highest angels and equal to God, the divine nature of Christ
4) the disposition or influence which fills and governs the soul of any one
4a) the efficient source of any power, affection, emotion, desire, etc.
5) a movement of air (a gentle blast)
5a) of the wind, hence the wind itself
5b) breath of nostrils or mouth

rûach
BDB Definition:
1) wind, breath, mind, spirit
1a) breath
1b) wind
1b1) of heaven
1b2) quarter (of wind), side
1b3) breath of air
1b4) air, gas
1b5) vain, empty thing
1c) spirit (as that which breathes quickly in animation or agitation)
1c1) spirit, animation, vivacity, vigour
1c2) courage
1c3) temper, anger
1c4) impatience, patience
1c5) spirit, disposition (as troubled, bitter, discontented)
1c6) disposition (of various kinds), unaccountable or uncontrollable impulse
1c7) prophetic spirit
1d) spirit (of the living, breathing being in man and animals)
1d1) as gift, preserved by God, God’s spirit, departing at death, disembodied being
1e) spirit (as seat of emotion)
1e1) desire
1e2) sorrow, trouble
1f) spirit
1f1) as seat or organ of mental acts
1f2) rarely of the will
1f3) as seat especially of moral character
1g) Spirit of God, the third person of the triune God, the Holy Spirit, coequal, coeternal with the Father and the Son
1g1) as inspiring ecstatic state of prophecy
1g2) as impelling prophet to utter instruction or warning
1g3) imparting warlike energy and executive and administrative power
1g4) as endowing men with various gifts
1g5) as energy of life
1g6) as manifest in the Shekinah glory
1g7) never referred to as a depersonalized force

 

[Laodicea]

The word “spirit” in the Old Testament occurs 234 times and is translated from the Hebrew word “Ruahh” (except Job 26: 4 and Proverbs 20: 27). “Ruahh” occurs 442 times and is translated 16 different ways. It is rendered “Spirit” 232 times; “Wind” 97 times; “breath,” 28 times; “smell” 8 times; “mind” 6 times; “blast,” 4 times, etc.

Examples:
Breath: Gen 6: 17; 2 Sam 22: 16; Job 4: 9; Psalms 18: 15; Eccl 3: 19; Isaiah 11: 4;
Jer 10: 14; Lam 4: 20; Eze 37: 5, 6; Hab 2: 19

Wind: Gen 8: 1; Exo 10: 13; Num 11: 31; 2 Sam 22: 11; 1 Kings 18: 45; 2 Kings 3: 17; Job 1: 19; Job 1: Psalms 1: 4; Proverbs 11: 29; Eccl 1: 6; Isaiah 7: 2; Jer 2: 24; Eze 1: 4; Daniel 8: 8; Hos 4: 19; Amos 4: 13; Jonah 1: 4; Zech 2: 6.

Smell: Gen 8: 21; Ex 30: 38; Lev 26: 31; Deut 4: 28; Job 39: 25; Psalms 115: 6;
Amos 5: 21

Mind: Gen 26: 35; Prov 29: 11; Eze 11: 5; Hab 1: 11

Blast: Ex 15: 8; 2 Kings 19: 7; Isaiah 25: 4

Also “tempest” (Ps. 11: 6); “air” (Job 41: 16) “courage” (Josh. 2: 11); “anger” (Judges 8: 3); “toucheth” (Judges 16: 9); “understanding” (Isaiah 11: 3); “accept” (1 Sam 26: 19); Note—“Ruahh” (Spirit); is never said to be immortal.

The word “Spirit” in the New Testament is translated from the Greek word “Pneuma” which occurs 385 times. “Pneuma” is translated “Spirit 291 times. It is also rendered “ghost” 92 times; “wind” once and “life” once, four different ways.
Examples:
Ghost: Matt 1: 18; Mark 1: 8; Luke 1: 15; John 1: 33; Acts 1: 2; Rom 5: 5; 1 Cor 2: 13;
2 Cor 6: 6; 1 Thess 1: 5, 6; 2 Tim 1: 14; Titus 3: 5; Heb 2: 4; 1 Pet 1: 12; 2 Pet 1: 21;
1 John 5: 7; Jude 20,
Wind : John 3: 8.
Life: Rev.13: 15.

Note.—Thus, we see the Hebrew and Greek words from which “soul” is translated in our English Bible occur 768 times in the Old Testament and 155 times in the New Testament. The word “Spirit” occurs 442 times in the Old Testament and 385 times in the New Testament Thus the words from which “soul” and “spirit” are translated occur about 1700 times in the Bible, but they are never modified by such expressions as “deathless.” “never dying,” or “immortal.”

 

[krisbrian]

Jesus says when we believe on him our spirits become immortal at that very moment.

Joh 3:16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.

G166
αἰώνιος
aiōnios
ahee-o'-nee-os
From G165; perpetual (also used of past time, or past and future as well): - eternal, for ever, everlasting, world (began).

aiōnios
Thayer Definition:
1) without beginning and end, that which always has been and always will be
2) without beginning
3) without end, never to cease, everlasting

How could Jesus have possibly made it any plainer?

 

[Laodicea]

Jesus says when we believe on him our spirits become immortal at that very moment.

Joh 3:16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.

G166
αἰώνιος
aiōnios
ahee-o'-nee-os
From G165; perpetual (also used of past time, or past and future as well): - eternal, for ever, everlasting, world (began).

aiōnios
Thayer Definition:
1) without beginning and end, that which always has been and always will be
2) without beginning
3) without end, never to cease, everlasting

How could Jesus have possibly made it any plainer?

John 3:16 does not say that we have an immortal spirit
1 John 5:11-13
(11) And this is the record, that God hath given to us eternal life, and this life is in his Son.
(12) He that hath the Son hath life; and he that hath not the Son of God hath not life.
(13) These things have I written unto you that believe on the name of the Son of God; that ye may know that ye have eternal life, and that ye may believe on the name of the Son of God.
1 Timothy 6:15-16
(15) Which in his times he shall shew, who is the blessed and only Potentate, the King of kings, and Lord of lords;
(16) Who only hath immortality, dwelling in the light which no man can approach unto; whom no man hath seen, nor can see: to whom be honour and power everlasting. Amen.
1 Corinthians 15:50-55
(50) Now this I say, brethren, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God; neither doth corruption inherit incorruption.
(51) Behold, I shew you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed,
(52) In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed.
(53) For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality.
(54) So when this corruptible shall have put on incorruption, and this mortal shall have put on immortality, then shall be brought to pass the saying that is written, Death is swallowed up in victory.
(55) O death, where is thy sting? O grave, where is thy victory?

The verses in Corinthians is referring to the 2nd coming