What is your BEST PROOF for a pre-trib Rapture?

Wall · Dec 6, 2019

Im sorry Melach

Acts 2:19-21 (KJV)
19 And I will shew wonders in heaven above, and signs in the earth beneath; blood, and fire, and vapour of smoke:
20 The sun shall be turned into darkness, and the moon into blood, before that great and notable day of the Lord come:
21 And it shall come to pass, that whosoever shall call on the name of the Lord shall be saved.

I know darbys rapture has people saved 7 yrs prior to the Day of the Lord. Verse 7. Read it and weep

Meant to say verse 21

notuptome · Dec 6, 2019

By the way the only proof will be when I wave to you as I go up. Until then you must go by faith. If you really think that Christ will put His bride through all the filth of the tribulation you fail to understand just how precious the church is to Christ.

For the cause of Christ
Roger

Wall · Dec 6, 2019

This is really weird. Their rapture scripture actually describes the Day of the Lord. It is a Day of the Lord scripture

1 THES. 4 [13] But I would not have you to be ignorant, brethren, concerning them which are asleep, that ye SORROW NOT, EVEN AS OTHERS which have no hope. [14] For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so them also which sleep in Jesus will God bring with him. [15] For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord, that we which are alive and remain unto the coming of the Lord shall not prevent them which are asleep. [16] For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with THE VOICE of the archangel, and with THE TRUMP OF GOD: and the dead in Christ shall rise first: [17] Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them IN THE CLOUDS, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord. [18] Wherefore comfort one another with these words.

1THES.4 – voice – clouds – trump of God – sorrow not as others -

ZEPH. 1 – voice – clouds – the trumpet – man shall cry bitterly -

ZEPH. 1 [14] The great DAY OF THE LORD is near, it is near, and hasteth greatly, even THE VOICE of the day of the Lord: the mighty MAN SHALL CRY THERE BITTERLY. [15] That day is a day of wrath, a day of trouble and distress, a day of wasteness and desolation, a day of darkness and gloominess, a DAY OF CLOUDS and thick darkness, [16] A DAY OF THE TRUMPET and alarm against the fenced cities, and against the high towers. [17] And I will bring distress upon men, that they shall walk like blind men, because they have sinned against the Lord: and their blood shall be poured out as dust, and their flesh as the dung.

No doubt about it. Both scriptures are speaking of the same event. Both scriptures speak of what happens on the Day of the Lord.

Wall · Dec 6, 2019

notuptome said:

Naw, you can find the proof in the bible. If you do fly by me waving ill be wondering where your goin

EZEK.13 [19] And will ye pollute me among my people for handfuls of barley and for pieces of bread, to slay the souls that should not die, and to save the souls alive that should not live, BY YOUR LYING TO MY PEOPLE that hear your lies?[20] Wherefore thus saith the Lord GOD; Behold, I am against your pillows, wherewith YE THERE HUNT THE SOULS TO MAKE THEM FLY, and I will tear them from your arms, and will let the souls go, even the souls that ye hunt to make them fly.[21] Your kerchiefs also will I tear, and deliver my people out of your hand, and they shall be no more in your hand to be hunted; and ye shall know that I am the LORD. [22] BECAUSE WITH LIES ye have made the heart of the righteous sad, whom I have not made sad; and strengthened the hands of the wicked, that he should not return from his wicked way, BY PROMISING HIM LIFE:[23] Therefore ye shall see no more vanity, nor divine divinations: for I will deliver my people out of your hand: and ye shall know that I am the LORD.

bluto · Dec 6, 2019

Nehemiah6 said:

This is such a pathetic attempt to try and understand future events. You should really try to stay away from this subject. Either that or spend a great deal of time on Bible prophecy.

Actually no one is told NOT TO BE AFRAID during the Day of the LORD. The exact opposite is what will occur. And since the Day of the LORD is reserved for the wicked and the ungodly and unbelieving, why would it be of any concern to believers?

JOEL 2
1 Blow ye the trumpet in Zion, and sound an alarm in my holy mountain: let all the inhabitants of the land tremble: for the day of the LORD cometh, for it is nigh at hand;
2 A day of darkness and of gloominess, a day of clouds and of thick darkness, as the morning spread upon the mountains: a great people and a strong; there hath not been ever the like, neither shall be any more after it, even to the years of many generations.
3 A fire devoureth before them; and behind them a flame burneth: the land is as the garden of Eden before them, and behind them a desolate wilderness; yea, and nothing shall escape them.
4 The appearance of them is as the appearance of horses; and as horsemen, so shall they run.
5 Like the noise of chariots on the tops of mountains shall they leap, like the noise of a flame of fire that devoureth the stubble, as a strong people set in battle array.
6 Before their face the people shall be much pained: all faces shall gather blackness.
7 They shall run like mighty men; they shall climb the wall like men of war; and they shall march every one on his ways, and they shall not break their ranks:
8 Neither shall one thrust another; they shall walk every one in his path: and when they fall upon the sword, they shall not be wounded.
9 They shall run to and fro in the city; they shall run upon the wall, they shall climb up upon the houses; they shall enter in at the windows like a thief.
10 The earth shall quake before them; the heavens shall tremble: the sun and the moon shall be dark, and the stars shall withdraw their shining:
11 And the LORD shall utter his voice before his army: for his camp is very great: for he is strong that executeth his word: for the day of the LORD is great and very terrible; and who can abide it?

Really! 1 John 4:18, "There is no fear in love, but perfect love casts out fear, because fear involves punishment, and the one who fears is not perfected in love." I would think that this verse applies to any day including "the day of the Lord," don't you?

And btw, did not God shield Israel from the ten plagues that God put upon Egypt? Was not Noah who was still on the earth/water shielded in the arc during the flood while the people were swept away? Think about it.

IN GOD THE SON,
bluto

TheDivineWatermark · Dec 6, 2019

bluto said:

I've mentioned (about a billion times

) that "Noah" is a type of those [plurals] existing in the trib who will be preserved THRU the trib years, and will ENTER the promised and prophesied EARTHLY Millennial Kingdom in their MORTAL bodies, capable of reproducing/bearing children (compare Daniel 2:35 with Genesis 9:1 "FILL/FILLED the [whole] earth" [Matthew 24:37-41 and Luke 17:26-37--trib yrs followed by His 2nd Coming to the earth]).
--See also Daniel 12:12 (and the 10 or so "BLESSED" passages, along with this one, which I've listed in the past, showing "mortals" [saints only] entering the MK age, upon His "RETURN" to the earth, FOR the MK "BLESSINGs"-aspect of "the DOTL [time period]")

Instead, it is "Enoch" who is a type of "the Church WHICH IS HIS BODY" [ONE SINGULAR MAN] who is taken UP *BEFORE* the flood judgment came to unfold upon the earth!

bluto · Dec 6, 2019

TheDivineWatermark said:

So! Even if you explained a "trillion" times who still have not proven the rapture has occured "BEFORE" these events. It seems your "oblivious" to the words, "end of the age/world." Matthew 13:39, 40. Or "the last trumpet" and how about the "last day at John 6:36-40, John 6:44. And what about in the Old Testament, have you read Zechariah 14:5-9 and take note of verses 6,7. Where's the rapture in these verses? Btw, you mentioned Noah so what about the ten plagues, how are you goint to explain that away?

IN GOD THE SON,
bluto

Wall · Dec 6, 2019

TheDivineWatermark said:

Opinion noted

Oseas · Dec 6, 2019

Sackcloth-N-Ashes said:

In my understanding, all these theories were created by the spirit of confusion. And the things that are not true, but they are part of the context of these doctrines, we can say that it is a sowing of tares that the enemy spreads them among the people to confuse Christians.

Particularly in my independent view reading the Word of God - the Word is God, hallelujah! - I see the fulfilment of prophecies and signs and warnings which we need to discern materially and spiritually in these perilous times.

The prophecy says we would live in perilous time? Why perilous times? Because the people of God would be living within a terrible spiritual environment of extreme corruption and apostasies, two satanic and overwhelming spiritual movements among Christians, as follow:
1 - Extreme corruption of the last days
This know also, that in the last days perilous times shall come, because will be of extreme corruption as is described in 2Ti.3:v.1-5; and because these days are evil. Eph.5:v.16

2 - Proliferation of Apostasies in the last days
- Now the Spirit speaketh expressly, that in the latter times some shall depart from the faith, giving heed to seducing spirits, and doctrines of devils; Speaking lies in hypocrisy; having their conscience seared with a hot iron; (1Tim.4:v.1-2)
- The time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine; but after their own lusts shall they heap to themselves teachers, having itching ears; 4 And they shall turn away their ears from the truth, and shall be turned unto fables. 2Ti.4:v.3-4

- 3 Let no man deceive you by any means: for that Day (the Lord's Day) shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition; Who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God, shewing himself that he is God. 2The. 2:v. 3-4

That said, I would like to comment what is my vision about prophecies of the end of the times, which will fulfil from now on, as is written in Revelation 11-13:

continues below

TheDivineWatermark · Dec 6, 2019

bluto said:

Paul's point in 2Th2 is to provide THE SEQUENCE (as to WHEN our Rapture will take place IN RELATION [time-wise] TO the earthly time period known as "the Day of the Lord"/"IN THAT DAY"). The DOTL time-period can't "BE PRESENT" until our Rapture takes place *FIRST*… [note the DEFINITION I provided from "Liddell and Scott's Greek-English Lexicon... (published 1859 [I think]) "apostasia - LATER FORM FOR apostasis" = "apo stasis"="a standing away from [from a previous standing]" - aka "DEPARTURE" (as in the first 7 translations of the English Bible, before kjv)]

I'm not "oblivious" to it. I've posted a lot about how the passage in Matt13:24,30,39,40,49-50 and context (re: "the end [singular] of the age [singular]" [which will immediately precede "the age [singular] to come"/the earthly MK age]) has to do with the "WHEAT harvest" [there's more than ONE "harvest" in nature and in Scripture], and that "the 144,000" are said to be "firstfruit" (of a "harvest"), NOTING the TWO DISTINCT mentions of "firsfruit" in Lev23, and which I've shown in past posts that the wording in Rev14:4 parallels the wording of the SECOND of these TWO mentions of "firstfruit" in Lev23 (associated with the "WHEAT harvest"), where it also says, the "TWO loaves" and "baken WITH LEAVEN" [that ain't US--see 1Cor5:7 "ye are UNleavened" stated factually]

[note also the phrase "a KIND of firstfruit, said in James]

I've made numerous posts about the distinctions among "the LAST trumpet" and the "SEVEN [judgment] TRUMPETS" and "the GREAT trumpet" (and noted how the distinctions of "how" the "2 silver trumpets" were blown in Numbers 10:1-10, showed the various PURPOSES of those patterns... and that v.4 speaks of "if they blow but with ONE trumpet, then the PRINCES [G5387 - "one lifted up, a chief, prince" (see my references I gave in past posts TO THIS)], which are HEADS of the thousands of Israel, shall gather-themselves [<--one word] UNTO YOU [/unto Moses]" (see wording in 2Th2:1!--our Rapture IN THE AIR... "OUR episynagoges UNTO HIM")

I've mentioned... John 6:39 is about the "THINGS" that will be "raised up" unto Jesus IN THE LAST DAY (His earthly "throne [of David]" and His "governance" stuff, etc); whereas v.40 is about "PERSONS" [EVERY ONE *WHO*]... and note: I am not saying there is not a "resurrection" at the END of the trib, for I've repeatedly pointed out BOTH Daniel 12:13 [OT saint; "[resurrected ("to stand again on the earth")] at the END of the days [the END of the days of THAT CONTEXT (meaning, at END of trib)]"; and Rev20:4b [TRIB saints--those of them who will have DIED in/during the trib yrs]--Neither of these instances are speaking of "our Rapture" ("our Rapture" pertains SOLELY to "the Church WHICH IS HIS BODY" [Eph1:20-23 WHEN], NOT to all other saints of all OTHER time periods!)

[note the points I've made in my past posts about the word "THIS" in 1Cor15:51-54; and the fact that v.23 says "[re: resurrection] but each IN HIS OWN ORDER" (meaning there doesn't remain ONLY ONE); and how Rev20:6 says, "having A PART IN the first resurrection" (the one "UNTO LIFE"--not that it occurs all in one singular point in time (for the 2W are "resurrected" at the 6th Trumpet/2nd Woe, distinctly from when ANYONE ELSE is!!)]

It's not.

That's is a "second coming to the earth" passage. No "rapture" at that point! That's what I've been saying.

And note what I'd said about the phrase "IN THAT DAY" equaling "the Day of the Lord [TIME PERIOD]," which is NOT "a singular 24-hr day

[yes, there is a "resurrection [to stand again on the earth]" at His Second Coming to the earth time-slot; not "our Rapture" which pertains SOLELY to "the Church which is His body"]

I just got done saying... "Noah"="those [saints] preserved THRU the [flood] judgments unfolding on the earth"; I never once said there won't exists "saints" on the earth IN/DURING the trib years (they will have come to faith FOLLOWING "our Rapture/THE Departure," that is, IN/DURING the trib yrs); but it is only "the Church which is His body" (defined as ALL those having come to faith "in this PRESENT age [singular]") to which THE RAPTURE pertains (and of whom "Enoch" is the type, instead)

Hope that helps you see my perspective.

Oseas · Dec 6, 2019

Sackcloth-N-Ashes said:

continuation of post above

THE COURT WHICH IS WITHOUT THE TEMPLE IS GIVEN TO THE GENTILES

It seems from the text of Revelation 11, that the temple had not yet been occupied by the false messiah, the Beast like a lamb, claiming to be God. What we can see is that the outer court is given to the gentiles. And the text talks about the two witnesses being able to execute severe judgments for 42 months / 1260 days, Fire will proceed out of their mouth, and will devour the enemies.

What will be then the scenarios within Jerusalem in that time to come soon?

THE FIRST SCENARIO THAT WILL BE SEEN IN JERUSALEM

In fact the false messiah will manifest himself in the holy city in short future. The supposed messiah, called Eliyahu, born in Jerusalem, already living in the holy city for decades (this detail is very important to be known to everyone here of course), this MAN as soon as he manifest himself as a messiah in the days to come, he will begin to make signs and lying wonders. This esoteric / spiritist / kabbalistic messiah of the Jews will do great signs and wonders, even will make fire come down from heaven on the earth in the sight of men, deceiving them that dwell on the earth by the miracles which he has power to do.

THEN A SECOND SCENARIO WILL BE SEEN IN JERUSALEM
All kind of comunications, the midea in general, will comment the signs and lying wonders of the false messiah and will show them to the whole world, mainly the chanels of television. In the other hand, Ministries and Ministers of all denominations and sects, and all religious leaders of all religious system that exist, they will preach and spread at the four corners of the earth saying Christ is in Jerusalem. Then the whole world will hear by/through the leaders of the evangelical Churches and non evengelic too, that he is the Christ or messiah.

AFTER THAT, A THIRD SCENARIO WILL TAKE PLACE IN JERUSALEM
The third scenario in Jerusalem, the holy city, will be of human upheaval, the environment in the holy city will be of extreme convulsion, multitudes of people and kindreds and tongues and nations will travel to Jerusalem, a strong tourist movements from all nations, mainly religious tourism from all religions and evangelical churches of all denominations and sects will travel to Jerusalem, multitudes will be circling in holy city. Even the Pope will meet the false messiah in the midst of a great human mass of religious people, a strong religious movements towards Jerusalem.
These will be the scenarios in Jerusalem during 42 months as soon as manifest the false messiah in Israel, enthroned in Jerusalem, which spiritually is called Sodom and Egypt. Thus will fulfil literally what is written in Revelation 11 and 13

A FOURTH AND TERRIBLE SCENARIO TAKE PLACE, A SCENARIO OF WAR
Rev.11:v.2 - the court which is without the temple leave out...it is given unto the Gentiles: and the holy city shall they tread under foot forty and two months.

See, in paralel with the scenarios above, the true Christians will preach against these satanic movements, the environment on the earth will be a spiritual and religious War and one of the seven heads of the Beast of sea -the Papacy and the woman which rides upon him - will be wounded to death.
Then the false messiah will make a deal with the Pope to build an universal religious Empire (iron mixed with clay), and he will give to the Pope his Power, and his Throne and great Authority (Rev.13:v.2, then the deadly wound of the Papacy will be healed and all the World will be wondered after the Pope, called or nicknamed Paulus VII, seated on the throne of the false messiah in the holy city.

And the peoples of the earth included the Jewish people guided by the false messiah, called Eliyahu, they will worship their false messiah which gave power unto the Pope, and also they will worship the Pope, saying, Who is like unto the Pope? who is able to make war with him? Then, face to the environment extremely favorable, the pseudo messiah will make a deal with the Pope to build an universal Empire, a religious Empire, atually an anti-JESUS Empire or AntiChrist's Empire, and according Scriptures who will the FIRST to rule this satanic Empire for 42 months will be the Pope, as it is prophesied in Revelation 13:v.5. (Pope Paulus VII)

Then will be given unto the Pope a mouth speaking great things and blasphemies; and also will be given power unto him to continue with his blasphemy for forty and two months (Rev.13:v.5) and he will open his mouth in blasphemy against God, to blaspheme his name-JESUS-, and his tabernacle, and them that dwell in heavenly places in Christ (Eph.1:v.3).

And will be given unto the Pope Paulus VII to make WAR with the saints (Dan.7:v.22&25-27), and to overcome them: and power will be given him over all kindreds, and tongues, and nations, all that dwell upon the earth will worship him, those whose names are not written in the book of life of the Lamb that was slain from the foundation of the world.

Rev. 13:v.9-10 say: 9 If any man have an ear, let him hear. 10 He that leadeth into captivity shall go into captivity: he that killeth with the sword must be killed with the sword. Here is the PATIENCE AND THE FAITH OF THE SAINTS.

THE WORST OF ALL WILL COME AND IS AT DOOR

But the worst of all, as soon as ends the FIRST period of 42 months of the Antichrist's Empire, ruled by the Pope Paulus VII, afterwards will assume the RUTHLESS false messiah, and he will rule the Antichrist's Empire for 1.290 days (Dan.12:v.11), then will be established the Abomination of Desolation, the end of the Dispensation is arrived, yeah, this will be the worst of all precedent things as they are described in Revelation 13:v.11-18, but this is for another chapter and a new post.

Among the evangelical people of all denominations will be divisions, they will be hated of all nations for JESUS name's sake, among the believers many will be offended and will betray one another, and will hate one another. And many false prophets shall rise in the churches and will deceive many. And because iniquity shall abound, the love of many shall wax cold. But he that shall endure unto the end, the same shall be saved.

Blessed is he that waiteth, and cometh to the thousand three hundred and five and thirty days. Dan; 12:v.12 In my vision, the day 1,335 is the day of JESUS's coming.

Nevertheless when the Son of man cometh, shall he find faith on the earth?

In Christ JESUS, KING of kings (kings made by Him), and LORD of lords

God bless

TheDivineWatermark · Dec 6, 2019

Wall said:

Great. Thanks. I hope you checked out the actual Scriptures I provide, for my reasons behind what I've put.

TheDivineWatermark · Dec 6, 2019

TheDivineWatermark said:

Sry... that last line [enlarged here ^ ] should read [instead]: "(as in the first 7 English translations of the Bible, before the kjv)"

[getting very dyslexic... too much typing today... my eyes are starting to CROSS!

]

LOL

TheDivineWatermark · Dec 6, 2019

^ Another minor "correction" to my Post #310:

where I'd put...

… that should read: "PRINCES [H5387]" (not "G5387," of course--this is an OT reference, lol

--need an upgrade to my spectacles! lol )

[for the sake of the readers out there

]

Wall · Dec 6, 2019

TheDivineWatermark said:

1COR.15 [51] Behold, I shew you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed,[52] In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: FOR THE TRUMPET SHALL SOUND, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and WE SHALL BE CHANGED.[53] For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality.[54] So when this corruptible shall have put on incorruption, and this mortal shall have put on immortality, then shall be brought to pass the saying that is written, DEATH IS SWALLOWED UP IN VICTORY.

Death is swallowed up in victory at the 1Cor15 event

ISAIAH’S “IN THAT DAY”

ISAIAH 25 [8] HE WILL SWALLOW UP DEATH IN VICTORY; and the Lord GOD will WIPE AWAY TEARS from off all faces; and the rebuke of his people shall he take away from off all the earth: for the LORD hath spoken it.[9] And it shall be said IN THAT DAY, Lo, this is our God; we have waited for him, and he will save us: this is the LORD; we have waited for him, we will be glad and rejoice in his salvation.

IN THAT DAY= Death is swallowed up in victory. Just as you find in the 1Cor.15 event

ISAIAH 27 [12] And it shall come to pass IN THAT DAY, that the LORD shall beat off from the channel of the river unto the stream of Egypt, and YE SHALL BE GATHERED ONE BY ONE, O YE CHILDREN OF ISRAEL. [13] And it shall come to pass IN THAT DAY, that the GREAT TRUMPET SHALL BE BLOWN, and they shall come which were ready to perish in the land of Assyria, and the outcasts in the land of Egypt, and shall worship the LORD in the holy mount at Jerusalem.

IN THAT DAY= Last trumpet {1Cor.15} will be blown and Gods people gathered {in the twinkling of an eye}

ISAIAH 2 [11] The lofty looks of man shall be humbled, and the haughtiness of men shall be bowed down, and the LORD alone shall be exalted IN THAT DAY. [12] For THE DAY OF THE LORD of hosts shall be upon every one that is proud and lofty, and upon every one that is lifted up; and he shall be brought low:

IN THAT DAY= The Day of the Lord

Hoot. There it is. The Day of the Lord and the so called rapture event take place at the same time. “IN THAT DAY”

TheDivineWatermark · Dec 6, 2019

Walls, ^ that is why I specifically pointed out the "THIS" of the 1Cor15:51-54 [parallel 2Cor5:2-4] passage (regarding "A MYSTERY" [not something that was already WELL-KNOWN by the OT saints like Daniel (Dan12:13) and Job (Job19:25-27) and Martha (Jn11:24-26)]; and the G4714 word in the Hebrews 9:8-9 passage (about the "which is A PARABLE for THE PRESENT TIME" [re: "the tabernacle [in the wilderness] yet having A STANDING [G4714 - stasin / stasis]" (note again the passage I just pointed out, 2Cor5:2-4 regarding the "still-living" portion of "the Church which is His body" (context: speaking of our "change" at the time of "our Rapture") where also the passage refers to "tabernacle"], and how that "G4714 stasin/stasis" word, in its 8 other places (out of 9 total) refers to "an insurrection, dissension, strife, a popular uprising, controversy, uproar"... but not HERE, in its 9th occurrence. And how (mentioning in past posts) Wm Kelly's commentary had this to say of that passage:

[quoting]

"for the tabernacle in the wilderness is before the writer, not the temple: so we saw in Heb. 3, 4, and so it is here and throughout. This is evident in the early verses of the chapter, summed up in "these things having been thus formed" or prepared, not only the tabernacle but its furniture; which differed in some essential respects from the temple, for it [the Temple] was the figure of the millennial kingdom and rest, as the tabernacle is of the resources of grace in Christ for the wilderness and its pilgrimage. Hence the ark when set in the temple had neither the golden pot with manna therein nor Aaron's rod that budded (2 Chronicles 5:10), which we find carefully named in verse 4. With such wisdom markedly divine was the scripture inspired in the O.T. as in the N.T."

--Wm Kelly, Commentary on Heb9:8-9 [source: BibleHub; bold and underline mine; end quoting]

___

...and that every place that Paul speaks of US/the Church which is His body" as "temple," he never uses "the definite article ['the']"... just "temple" (whereas, passages such as 2Th2:4 and Rev11:1 both use "THE temple" [the latter making it abundantly clear that "the temple of God" and "THEM that worship THEREIN" are DISTINCT]); and how the "24 courses" having to do with the 1Chron25... I'd put this:

[quoting Wm Kelly]

"In 1 Chronicles 25 we have the service of song. "Moreover, David and the captains of the host separated to the service of the sons of Asaph, and of Heman, and of Jeduthun, who should prophesy with harps, with psalteries, and with cymbals." It is called "prophesying" because it so directly brought in God, which is the emphatic meaning of prophesying. "And the number of the workmen according to their service was" - so and so. There were twenty-four courses of the singers. Now, this was another remarkable change. In the tabernacle, song was not the characteristic feature, but sacrifice; but in the temple in the day of glory, the song of triumph is the new and suitable feature."

--William Kelly, 1 Chronicles 25 [see especially verse 7]

[note: v.1 "with harps [see Rev5], with psalteries ['earthen vessels'], and with cymbals"... and note the reference to "CHANGE"

]

[end quoting]

MUCH MORE, but I gotta run! (bbl!--this post is having to be cut short, as I gotta dash! Sry!)

Wall · Dec 6, 2019

TheDivineWatermark said:

So when is the LAST trumpet to be blown? Its a MYSTERY!

1COR.15 [50] Now this I say, brethren, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God; neither doth corruption inherit incorruption.[51] Behold, I SHEW YOU A MYSTERY; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed,[52] In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, AT THE LAST TRUMP: FOR THE TRUMPET SHALL SOUND, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed.[53] For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality.[54] So when this corruptible shall have put on incorruption, and this mortal shall have put on immortality, then shall be brought to pass the saying that is written, Death is swallowed up in victory.

MYSTERY—last trumpet {it shall sound} – The LAST one! – No more trumpets to be blown – Its the LAST trumpet!

REVELATION 8 [1] And when he had opened THE SEVENTH SEAL, there was silence in heaven about the space of half an hour. [2] And I saw the SEVEN ANGELS which stood before God; and to them were given SEVEN TRUMPETS.

Seventh angel has a trumpet. It shall sound. Its also the LAST one to be heard. Its also AFTER the trib period

REVELATION 10 [6] And sware by him that liveth for ever and ever, who created heaven, and the things that therein are, and the earth, and the things that therein are, and the sea, and the things which are therein, that there should be time no longer: [7] But in the days of the voice of THE SEVENTH ANGEL, when he shall begin to sound, THE MYSTERY OF GOD SHOULD BE FINISHED, as he hath declared to his servants the prophets.

MYSTERY SOLVED! The seventh angel begins to sound. This is the LAST trumpet you find being blown in the bible

REVELATION 16 [17] And the SEVENTH ANGEL poured out his vial into the air; and there came a great voice out of the temple of heaven, from the throne, saying, IT IS DONE.

REVELATION 11 [14] The second woe is past; and, behold, the third woe cometh quickly. [15]And THE SEVENTH ANGEL SOUNDED; and there were great voices in heaven, saying, THE KINGDOMS OF THIS WORLD ARE BECOME THE KINGDOMS OF OUR LORD, and of his Christ; and he shall reign for ever and ever.

As i said before, we do not flit off to heaven at the 1Cor.15 event. As the seventh angel sounds the trumpet the kingdoms of this world are to become the kingdoms of the Lord and thats where the Lord will bring us after meeting Him in the air. His kingdom, right here on Gods green earth

TheDivineWatermark · Dec 6, 2019

Wall said:

No, "the 7th Trumpet" [of the set of 7 Trumpets] is not the last one to be heard.

The "GREAT trumpet" (as I had mentioned) is the one that comes "AFTER the tribulation of those days" (which I believe refers to "after the 7-yr trib, total" because...),

... the Matthew 24:29-31 passage ("GREAT trumpet") is parallel to the Isaiah 27:12-13 passage I pointed out ("GREAT ...trumpet") and it is THAT trumpet that gathers Israel [the believing remnant] "ONE-BY-ONE" (not "AS ONE") "to worship the Lord in the holy mount AT JERUSALEM"... and Lk21:24b and Rev11:2 both say that "[Jerusalem/the holy city] shall be trodden down of the Gentiles UNTIL the TIMES of the Gentiles be fulfilled" (i.e. /till the end of the 42 mos; aka the END of the trib yrs), with "the TIMES of the Gentiles" referring to "Gentile domination over Israel" (that STARTED in 606/605bc; think: Neb's dream/statue/image, with Neb as "head of gold"; and which runs till the END of the trib [that is, in the AC's yrs]; see also Dan7:27[25],2:25, [re: the END of it!] etc...)

At the time of the "7th Trumpet/3rd Woe," there still remains the "7 Vials" yet to unfold, and in which (it is said), "the seven LAST plagues" (not the FIRST of them to play out), and "for IN THEM the wrath of God is COMPLETED" (not where it IS STARTED

)... etc...

Wall · Dec 6, 2019

TheDivineWatermark said:

Uh... i looked at scripture you posted. Uh... most had nothing to do with the 1Cor.15 event. No offense. To tell ya truth, i havent understood any of your posts. Ive read them all but could follow none. Sorry. Its like im tryin to follow a single bullet but you fire a shot gun. Some hit the target but most do not

Wall · Dec 6, 2019

TheDivineWatermark said:

See what i mean. You state theres a trumpet being blown after the tribulation. 1Cor.15 says the last trumpet is blown at that time. When we are changed in the twinkling of an eye. The LAST one!!!! There are no more trumpets to be blown after the last one is blown. And yet you go on to say theres a trumpet being blown AFTER the tribulation. Do the math.

What is your BEST PROOF for a pre-trib Rapture?

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