WHAT IS YOUR VIEW OF ORIGINAL SIN?

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WHAT IS YOUR VIEW OF ORIGINAL SIN?

  • Original sin is the imputation of Adam's sin to us, accompanied by a sin nature.

    Votes: 14 66.7%
  • Original sin isn't the imputation of Adam's sin to us, but is only the receipt of a sin nature.

    Votes: 7 33.3%

  • Total voters
    21
W

willybob

Guest
#21
physical death, the consequences and influence of sin entered the world with Adam...We inherited our flesh genetics from Adam (flesh of my flesh and bone of my bone Gen 2) but we do not inherent our soul from Adam. All souls were created and dispensed by God in the womb, Psalms 139. The soul that sinneth it shall die, the sins of the father are not transferred to the son, Ezek. 18...Sin is not transferable, it has no atomic weight, cannot be viewed under a microscope, and is not a malady lurking in ones flesh, but rather is something one chooses to do..James says that when lust is conceived in the heart the it gives birth to sin, which aligns with what Paul said in Romans 7:7-9.....Solomon said man is made morally upright but he seeks out evil devices....neither sin nor righteousness is transferable anywhere in the text....the scant few verses that are used to support original sin are all read out of context and there are some 100 or so verses in the text that refute original sin....be blessed and dig deep while building on the Rock of truth, lest the world flood of lies out of the mouth of the Dragon sweep that house away.
 
May 1, 2016
162
1
0
#22
I take the view as explained in detail by St. Augustine that due to Adam's original sin it brought a fallen state on mankind and created an imperfection on humanity creating man kinds natural will to sin but I also reject concepts such as total depravity and collective guilt which imply either that we carry Adam's guilt(while we do carry a sense of guilt per se for having such an inclination toward sinful actions we do not carry Adam's personal guilt)nor do I believe that because of the fall that we cannot do good and we lost will "total depravity"
 
Nov 26, 2011
3,818
62
0
#23
Original Sin is a false doctrine which can be traced back to the dualism of the Greeks, ultimately to Plato's teaching on "Forms."

Here is a documentary I made back in 2012 on the subject...

**link removed**

My book goes into even greater depth, and one can read about this subject on the following pages...


The Gnostics - pages 149-151 - Discusses Greek philosophy, Plato's theory of Forms, Gnostic Dualism

Original Sin - pages 152-153 - Discusses Tatian's idea of sin being inherited through procreation (Traducianism/Seminal Identity) and how it was refuted by Irenaeus. Early Church held to unfettered free will.

Augustine and Original Sin - pages 154-164 - Discusses Augustine's influence, Manicheaism, Augustine using the corrupted rendering of Romans 5:12 in the Latin Vulgate in order to draw the idea of "Original Sin" from the previous speculations of Tertullian in regards to Seminal Identity (all souls present in Adam).

Appendix 3 - Proof Texts Used By The Proponents of Original Sin - pages 261-275 - Examines the proof texts IN CONTEXT commonly used by those whom promote Original Sin.

My book is available FREE at the following link. Freely I have received therefore freely I have given.

**link removed**


I was deceived by the doctrine of Original Sin from 1997 (when I first began reading the Bible and listening to theologians) through to 2010/11.

If it wasn't for others who encouraged me to dig into what the Bible actually taught on the matter as well as to examine Church history then I would likely still be under the delusion and still in bondage to serving sin.

Praise the Lord that I have been set free from BOTH bondage to serving sin and the associated condemnation which goes with it.

Those whom promote Original Sin as true negate human responsibility regarding sinning against God because Original Sin redefines sin to be a "natural malady" as opposed to a CHOICE.

Thus under Original Sin "repentance" is redefined to be a mere "confession of sinfulness" and salvation is redefined to be a mere POSITION that serves to cloak an ongoing sinful state.

This is why those whom had been deceived by Original Sin were so easily led into the later lie of Substitution as it was the perfect cloaking doctrine for the ongoing sinfulness of the professed Christian under the Original Sin lie.

Very FEW are able to escape the snare or Original Sin and Substitution unfortunately because the lie has so captivated their minds and only those whose heart is TRULY set upon truth have any hope of coming out of the deception.

The religious establishment were blind leaders of the blind back in Jesus day, with eyes that could not see and ears that could not hear.

The religious establishment of the modern day are the blind leaders of the blind, with eyes that cannot see and ears that cannot hear.

Act 20:26 Wherefore I take you to record this day, that I am pure from the blood of all men.
Act 20:27 For I have not shunned to declare unto you all the counsel of God.
Act 20:28 Take heed therefore unto yourselves, and to all the flock, over the which the Holy Ghost hath made you overseers, to feed the church of God, which he hath purchased with his own blood.
Act 20:29 For I know this, that after my departing shall grievous wolves enter in among you, not sparing the flock.
Act 20:30 Also of your own selves shall men arise, speaking perverse things, to draw away disciples after them.
Act 20:31 Therefore watch, and remember, that by the space of three years I ceased not to warn every one night and day with tears.

Three years with tears!

Paul knew the false teachers would come.

2Pe 3:11 Seeing then that all these things shall be dissolved, what manner of persons ought ye to be in all holy conversation and godliness,
2Pe 3:12 Looking for and hasting unto the coming of the day of God, wherein the heavens being on fire shall be dissolved, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat?
2Pe 3:13 Nevertheless we, according to his promise, look for new heavens and a new earth, wherein dwelleth righteousness.
Final Words
2Pe 3:14 Wherefore, beloved, seeing that ye look for such things, be diligent that ye may be found of him in peace, without spot, and blameless.
2Pe 3:15 And account that the longsuffering of our Lord is salvation; even as our beloved brother Paul also according to the wisdom given unto him hath written unto you;
2Pe 3:16 As also in all his epistles, speaking in them of these things; in which are some things hard to be understood, which they that are unlearned and unstable wrest, as they do also the other scriptures, unto their own destruction.
2Pe 3:17 Ye therefore, beloved, seeing ye know these things before, beware lest ye also, being led away with the error of the wicked, fall from your own stedfastness.
2Pe 3:18 But grow in grace, and in the knowledge of our Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ. To him be glory both now and for ever. Amen.

Be well all.
 
Last edited by a moderator:

Zmouth

Senior Member
Nov 21, 2012
3,391
134
63
#24
WHAT IS YOUR VIEW OF ORIGINAL SIN?

And GOD (Father) saw that the wickedness of man was great in the earth, and that every imagination of the thoughts of his heart was only evil continually.Gen 6:5

And it repented the LORD (Son) that he had made man on the earth, and it grieved him at his heart. Gen 6:6

Which of you convinceth me of sin? And if I say the truth, why do ye not believe me? John 8:46
 
W

willybob

Guest
#25
I take the view as explained in detail by St. Augustine that due to Adam's original sin it brought a fallen state on mankind and created an imperfection on humanity creating man kinds natural will to sin but I also reject concepts such as total depravity and collective guilt which imply either that we carry Adam's guilt(while we do carry a sense of guilt per se for having such an inclination toward sinful actions we do not carry Adam's personal guilt)nor do I believe that because of the fall that we cannot do good and we lost will "total depravity"
Adam was able to choose to sin both before and after the fall...nothing changed in his nature. Man is born with natural desires and inclinations Gen 2-9..When he uses those desires and inclinations wrongfully it becomes sin...

be blessed
 
May 1, 2016
162
1
0
#26
mankind was created inherently good remember in Genesis God said "and it was good" man was not created with sinful desires rather he was created with free will Adam's failure to chose the right action lead mankind into a "fallen" state
 

stonesoffire

Poetic Member
Nov 24, 2013
10,665
1,829
113
#27
Original sin?

Nah, nothing new under the sun...:p
 

Locutus

Senior Member
Feb 10, 2017
5,928
685
113
#29
A doctrine massaged out of a misunderstanding of the apostle Paul.
 
Feb 1, 2014
733
33
0
#30
Original Sin is a false doctrine which can be traced back to the dualism of the Greeks, ultimately to Plato's teaching on "Forms."

Here is a documentary I made back in 2012 on the subject...

[video=youtube;KVQ1t5i058Q]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KVQ1t5i058Q&t[/video]

My book goes into even greater depth, and one can read about this subject on the following pages...


The Gnostics - pages 149-151 - Discusses Greek philosophy, Plato's theory of Forms, Gnostic Dualism

Original Sin - pages 152-153 - Discusses Tatian's idea of sin being inherited through procreation (Traducianism/Seminal Identity) and how it was refuted by Irenaeus. Early Church held to unfettered free will.

Augustine and Original Sin - pages 154-164 - Discusses Augustine's influence, Manicheaism, Augustine using the corrupted rendering of Romans 5:12 in the Latin Vulgate in order to draw the idea of "Original Sin" from the previous speculations of Tertullian in regards to Seminal Identity (all souls present in Adam).

Appendix 3 - Proof Texts Used By The Proponents of Original Sin - pages 261-275 - Examines the proof texts IN CONTEXT commonly used by those whom promote Original Sin.

My book is available FREE at the following link. Freely I have received therefore freely I have given.

"One In Us" - It Is the Gift of God by Scott Wilson (eBook) - Lulu


I was deceived by the doctrine of Original Sin from 1997 (when I first began reading the Bible and listening to theologians) through to 2010/11.

If it wasn't for others who encouraged me to dig into what the Bible actually taught on the matter as well as to examine Church history then I would likely still be under the delusion and still in bondage to serving sin.

Praise the Lord that I have been set free from BOTH bondage to serving sin and the associated condemnation which goes with it.

Those whom promote Original Sin as true negate human responsibility regarding sinning against God because Original Sin redefines sin to be a "natural malady" as opposed to a CHOICE.

Thus under Original Sin "repentance" is redefined to be a mere "confession of sinfulness" and salvation is redefined to be a mere POSITION that serves to cloak an ongoing sinful state.

This is why those whom had been deceived by Original Sin were so easily led into the later lie of Substitution as it was the perfect cloaking doctrine for the ongoing sinfulness of the professed Christian under the Original Sin lie.

Very FEW are able to escape the snare or Original Sin and Substitution unfortunately because the lie has so captivated their minds and only those whose heart is TRULY set upon truth have any hope of coming out of the deception.

The religious establishment were blind leaders of the blind back in Jesus day, with eyes that could not see and ears that could not hear.

The religious establishment of the modern day are the blind leaders of the blind, with eyes that cannot see and ears that cannot hear.

Act 20:26 Wherefore I take you to record this day, that I am pure from the blood of all men.
Act 20:27 For I have not shunned to declare unto you all the counsel of God.
Act 20:28 Take heed therefore unto yourselves, and to all the flock, over the which the Holy Ghost hath made you overseers, to feed the church of God, which he hath purchased with his own blood.
Act 20:29 For I know this, that after my departing shall grievous wolves enter in among you, not sparing the flock.
Act 20:30 Also of your own selves shall men arise, speaking perverse things, to draw away disciples after them.
Act 20:31 Therefore watch, and remember, that by the space of three years I ceased not to warn every one night and day with tears.

Three years with tears!

Paul knew the false teachers would come.

2Pe 3:11 Seeing then that all these things shall be dissolved, what manner of persons ought ye to be in all holy conversation and godliness,
2Pe 3:12 Looking for and hasting unto the coming of the day of God, wherein the heavens being on fire shall be dissolved, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat?
2Pe 3:13 Nevertheless we, according to his promise, look for new heavens and a new earth, wherein dwelleth righteousness.
Final Words
2Pe 3:14 Wherefore, beloved, seeing that ye look for such things, be diligent that ye may be found of him in peace, without spot, and blameless.
2Pe 3:15 And account that the longsuffering of our Lord is salvation; even as our beloved brother Paul also according to the wisdom given unto him hath written unto you;
2Pe 3:16 As also in all his epistles, speaking in them of these things; in which are some things hard to be understood, which they that are unlearned and unstable wrest, as they do also the other scriptures, unto their own destruction.
2Pe 3:17 Ye therefore, beloved, seeing ye know these things before, beware lest ye also, being led away with the error of the wicked, fall from your own stedfastness.
2Pe 3:18 But grow in grace, and in the knowledge of our Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ. To him be glory both now and for ever. Amen.

Be well all.
This guy is a Pelagian, and not an evangelical Christian. Pelagians deny justification by faith alone, imputed righteousness, and original sin. They claim to be sinless as well. Additionally he's not supposed to be advertising his books or website here. It's against the rules. I have reported it.
 
Feb 1, 2014
733
33
0
#31
Adam was able to choose to sin both before and after the fall...nothing changed in his nature. Man is born with natural desires and inclinations Gen 2-9..When he uses those desires and inclinations wrongfully it becomes sin...

be blessed
Scripture teaches that mankind is a slave to sin. He has choice, but it is a choice constrained by his fallen nature.

Romans 6:20.
 
Jan 21, 2017
647
28
0
#32
We are born neutral is what I believe about original sin. Sin mighta entered the world for the first time thru Adam but it dont mean God imputes Adam's sin unto us. How is that fair?
We was born neutral, then we make either good or bad choices in life, which lead us to where we are. Now unfortunately for a fella like me, i done made some bad choices :D had I made better choices id be way better off.

Augustine was tripping hard with a lot of his writings, dunno why he still holds such a big influence, this dude said everyone went to hell if they wasnt baptized when they was born so... yeah augustine was messed up. He was also obsessed with certain topics that are uhh.... yeah yall know what topic
 

Nehemiah6

Senior Member
Jul 18, 2017
26,074
13,771
113
#33
We are born neutral is what I believe about original sin. Sin mighta entered the world for the first time thru Adam but it dont mean God imputes Adam's sin unto us. How is that fair?
You meant "just" and you are correct. Adam's sin was NOT imputed to anyone else, not even to Eve. And do you know how Catholic Augustine promoted this idea? Because Romans 5:12 is mistranslated in the Latin Vulgate.

CRITICAL TEXT AND MODERN TRANSLATION

Nestle Greek New Testament 1904
Διὰ τοῦτο ὥσπερ δι’ ἑνὸς ἀνθρώπου ἡ ἁμαρτία εἰς τὸν κόσμον εἰσῆλθεν, καὶ διὰ τῆς ἁμαρτίας ὁ θάνατος, καὶ οὕτως εἰς πάντας ἀνθρώπους ὁ θάνατος διῆλθεν, ἐφ’ ᾧ πάντες ἥμαρτον·

New American Standard Bible
Therefore, just as through one man sin entered into the world, and death through sin, and so death spread to all men, because all sinned--

TRADITIONAL TEXT AND KJB

Stephanus Textus Receptus 1550

Διὰ τοῦτο ὥσπερ δι' ἑνὸς ἀνθρώπου ἡ ἁμαρτία εἰς τὸν κόσμον εἰσῆλθεν καὶ διὰ τῆς ἁμαρτίας ὁ θάνατος καὶ οὕτως εἰς πάντας ἀνθρώπους ὁ θάνατος διῆλθεν ἐφ' ᾧ πάντες ἥμαρτον·

King James Bible
Wherefore, as by one man sin entered into the world, and death by sin; and so death passed upon all men, for that all have sinned:

CATHOLIC BIBLES

Douay-Rheims Bible
Wherefore as by one man sin entered into this world, and by sin death; and so death passed upon all men, in whom all have sinned.

Latin Vulgate and Translation

[TABLE="width: 90%"]
[TR]
[TD][/TD]
[TD]propterea sicut per unum hominem in hunc mundum peccatum intravit et per peccatum mors et ita in omnes homines mors pertransiit in quo omnes peccaverunt

Wherefore as by one man sin entered into this world and by sin death: and so death passed upon all men, in whom all have sinned. [/TD]
[/TR]
[/TABLE]


 
Dec 28, 2016
5,455
236
63
#34
If babies are born sinless or neutral, how do many die in this state, seeing the wages of sin is death?[Romans 6:23a]
 
Jan 21, 2017
647
28
0
#35
If babies are born sinless or neutral, how do many die in this state, seeing the wages of sin is death?[Romans 6:23a]
I didn't think there'd be anyone claiming they are sinful. Thats lunacy, they cant even commit any sins, they are innocent. Ya boi Augustine got you on that trip?
Death entered the world thru Adam's sin is all.
 
Dec 28, 2016
5,455
236
63
#36
I didn't think there'd be anyone claiming they are sinful. Thats lunacy, they cant even commit any sins, they are innocent. Ya boi Augustine got you on that trip?
Death entered the world thru Adam's sin is all.
Again, the wages of sin is death. How can someone sinless die?
 
Feb 28, 2016
11,311
2,972
113
#37
Again, the wages of sin is death. How can someone sinless die?[

they are awaiting the 'second resurrection'...and will have to not only count the cost, but,
pay the price of dis-obedience...

we're very familiar with this understanding...
 
B

botham

Guest
#38
God's ways are not our ways. To our human mind Jesus Christ, sinless, dying on the Cross is a contradiction. But that is the central idea of the Bible, Jesus Christ sinless but dying is a paradox. Eternal life from the death of an eternal Being. And it was a complete death, a complete sacrifice because God turned away. Jesus said 'my God my God why hath Thou forsaken Me'. That could only be said by Jesus Christ if God actually turned away. It was a darkness of dying that no human could ever experience, but also a darkness that tells about what lies ahead for those who reject Jesus Christ as saviour. Jesus Christ was in effect 'made sin' on the Cross and the wages of sin were paid in full. So He was sin on the Cross as He defeated death forever. God is life, He is only life. Imagine how dreadful our sin must appear to God for Him to sacrifice His Son.
 
B

botham

Guest
#39
This guy is a Pelagian, and not an evangelical Christian. Pelagians deny justification by faith alone, imputed righteousness, and original sin. They claim to be sinless as well. Additionally he's not supposed to be advertising his books or website here. It's against the rules. I have reported it.
--we seem to have free will and we tend to sin. Is it important why we sin or simply that we sin. We sin therefore we need a Saviour because we merit death. We have free will because each of us can choose to do this or that, good or evil. I have heard that some Christians believe that we do no have free will because it would contradict certain Biblical passages. Not really, God can do whatever He wants to do and one thing He did, in my view, is give free will to His created beings. My free will is unchecked sin, a prison; free will delivered to Jesus Christ, a slave to Christ, is to be truly free, one of the greatest paradoxes--the greatest paradox of course is the Cross where eternal life was given us through death of our eternal Christ.
 

Locutus

Senior Member
Feb 10, 2017
5,928
685
113
#40
The death of Adam was sin/death separation from God "covenant death" not physical death.

Paul speaks of the same thing when he transgressed the Law:

Romans 7:9 I was once alive apart from the Law; but when the commandment came, sin became alive and I died;

Obviously Paul was still around to write to the Romans, so he is speaking of "spiritual" death no physical death.