What Laws are still valid to christians

[JGIG]

Apologies jgig for brother not sister first post ok wife and mum to seven how blessed are you girl? Thank you for comments so far good to read and glad your here sister?

No worries, Bro .

I was on one forum for over a year before the Law-keepers there knew I was a girl.

"He's a girl?!" was the quote, ha!

And yes, very blessed \o/.

Glad to be here.

Blessings to you,
-JGIG

 

[JGIG]

Again, it comes down to which covenant folks were under at the time:

Abraham was under a covenant of Grace, so even though he obeyed God's instructions, when he disobeyed (and we know that he did!), sin was not imputed to him.

Those under the Mosaic Covenant, a covenant of Law, when they disobeyed, sin was imputed and judgement came.

For those who are in Christ, we are also under a covenant of Grace, and when we sin, it is not imputed to us.

Romans 4:15
15 For the law brings wrath, but where there is no law there is no transgression.

Romans 5:13
13 for sin indeed was in the world before the law was given, but sin is not counted where there is no law. ​

-JGIG

and so we have dispensations that most here do not agree with.

For me, it's more a question of whether one is in First Adam or in Last Adam; in the Old Covenant or in the New Covenant.

Some hold to a 'dispensationalist' view; that carries a theological template which has some value, but in my opinion fails with its Millennial view that sacrifices will be brought back. Christ was the final sacrifice. They're not coming back, and neither is the Levitical priesthood that administered them. Christ's priesthood is forever by the power of an indestructible Life.

Neither do I hold to 'Covenant Theology', which also has some value and also carries a theological template associated with Reformed theology, which has several points with which I would disagree (limited atonement being the biggie).

Both Dispensationalism and Covenant Theology have their versions of the 'Final Things', as I like to call them, but both fall short in my opinion and make leaps in interpreting prophecies about the end times.

My view would be best described as 'Christological'; measuring everything through the lens of the finished Work of Christ. I've written about my view of the 'Final Things' if anyone is interested:

Millennial Prophecy: Measuring Unrevealed Prophecies in Light of Revealed Truths

-JGIG

 

[Welshman]

Well I for one sister am most glad your here? A good wife mum of seven and a woman of god? What a rare and dying breed you are sister, I've many sister in laws six bt no true sister by blood but I love each one as my sister and thank god we have a godly woman amidst us here we most grateful The Lord sent you? A big cheer for this woman seven kids one husband god fearing?, come on people respect is due here? Seven kids ? Thank The Lord your all safe n well n blessed British women are forgetting family life n purpose daily?

 

[Elin]

We don't have a 'part' to 'keep' in the New Covenant. We enter in by faith, just as Abraham did.

Correct, we must have faith to be in the New Covenant, and we don't "keep" the New Covenant,
because Christ our surety and guarantee keeps us in the faith, through his Spirit, who gives faith
by grace (Ac 18:27; Php 1:29; Ro 12:3; 1Co 12:3; 2Pe 1:1).

 

[Elin]

From Adam to Moses there was no law, so
sin was not taken into account between Adam and Moses
because there was no law (Ro 5:13-14).

Of course there were laws.

Abraham obeyed my voice, and kept my charge, my commandments, my statutes, and my laws. Genesis 26:5

Would you like to explain Ro 5:13-14?

 

[Elin]

From Adam to Moses there was no law, so
sin was not taken into account between Adam and Moses
when there was no law (Ro 5:13-14).

Again, it comes down to which covenant folks were under at the time:

Abraham was under a covenant of Grace, so even though he obeyed God's instructions, when he disobeyed (and we know that he did!), sin was not imputed to him.

Then why did he die?

Death is the wages of sin (Ro 6:23).

Guilt for what sin caused his death, if no sin was imputed to him?

 

[Elin]

And the Holy Spirit does not convict believers of sin. There is NO contextual Scripture to support that notion.

John 16:8-11
8 And when he [the Holy Spirit] comes, he will convict the world concerning sin and righteousness and judgment:

9 concerning sin, because they do not believe in me; [That's the unbelieving world.]

10 concerning righteousness, because I go to the Father, and you will see me no longer; [That's those who believe; the Holy Spirit actually convicts us of our righteousness in Christ! He always builds us up in who we are in Christ! \o/]

11 concerning judgment, because the ruler of this world is judged. [That's Satan, who is judged by Christ Col. 2:15.]

That is all men before any of them come to saving faith.

The Holy Spirit convicts the elect (Eph 1:4; Ro 11:7; 2Ti 2:10; Tit 1:1; 1Pe 1:1) of their sin
before they are believers.

That is why they repent and believe (Mk 1:16)

The rest of your list feeds right into the Law-keeping crowd's arguments.

Then you do not understand me.

In Christ, we ARE the Righteousness of God. There is no improvement on that position.
Regarding our condition in this life, while still in the flesh . . .

Titus 2:11-14
11 For the grace of God has appearedthat offers salvation to all people. 12 It [Grace] teaches us to say “No” to ungodliness and worldly passions, and to live self-controlled, upright and godly lives in this present age,13 while we wait for the blessed hope—the appearing of the glory of our great God and Savior, Jesus Christ, 14 who gave himself for us to redeem us from all wickedness and to purify for himself a people that are his very own, eager to do what is good.​

It's really not as complicated as you make it out to be.

If you're in Christ, surrendering to His Life in you, the command to love is not a 'work'; it is not something to 'be obeyed'; the command to love is FRUIT which the Spirit produces and we bear:

Galatians 5:22-23
22 But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, 23 gentleness, self-control; against such things there is no law.

You must have me confused with someone else.

 

[JGIG]

Then why did he die?

Death is the wages of sin (Ro 6:23).

Guilt for what sin caused his death, if no sin was imputed to him?

Sin was not imputed to him via Law:

Romans 5:12-14
12 Therefore, just as sin entered the world through one man, and death through sin, and in this way death came to all people, because all sinned—

13 To be sure, sin was in the world before the law was given, but sin is not charged against anyone’s account where there is no law. 14 Nevertheless, death reigned from the time of Adam to the time of Moses, even over those who did not sin by breaking a command, as did Adam, who is a pattern of the one to come.​

It doesn’t seem fair: “ . . . as by one man sin entered the world, and death by sin . . . therefore as by the offense of one, judgement came upon all . . .”

Neither is imputed righteousness ‘fair’: “ . . . For the judgment which came from one offense resulted in condemnation, but the free gift which came from many offenses resulted in justification. 17 For if by the one man’s offense death reigned through the one, much more those who receive abundance of grace and of the gift of righteousness will reign in life through the One, Jesus Christ.” (From Romans 5)

​

We are condemned by the sin of the First Adam (though the Scriptures cover the sin issue from two angles: sin was imputed to you, but by the Law we were all found guilty; no one is righteous). We who receive the gift of righteousness are declared righteous by the actions of the Last Adam (Christ Jesus). Not only that, but the result is this:

Romans 5:20-21
20 The law was brought in so that the trespass might increase. But where sin increased, grace increased all the more, 21 so that, just as sin reigned in death, so also grace might reign through righteousness to bring eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord.


-JGIG

 

[Hoffco]

Hi, i see ,two of you ladies are on line, it is good that some of us are color blind,LOL, or not good,LOL ;just joking, My Father was color blink, I think, but in Christ, we are all color ,gender and status BLIND, LOL .! I really don't care what gender I'm talking to; we are all equal in Christ. And I try to respect all. But. Please, some times People take others way out of context, and put lies in their mouths. This is not kind. My point I am making, is WORDS are very important, to truth.! The word "impute" is very important, it means to give some one credit when they have not earned it. When we believe Jesus , God imputes to our account in Heaven ,Jesus perfect righteousness. NOW, THINK,OF, The opposite of impute, WHICH is the word, "impart" OR the word "input"; Both have to do with a change within the person. These two words refer to the New Nature which God GIVES us ,OR puts within us, or imparts to us , when He mades us born again. born of God. Most teachers today know, almost, nothing of the real change MADE in us by the NEW BIRTH. I have been trying to MAKE you see this truth; BUT it is going in one ear and out the other.! With this in mind, think of what the old Westminister conf. says: "sanctification begins in regeneration." (not an exact Qoute) Our thoughts are on Rom. 5:14 "nevertheless death reigned from Adam to Moses, " Of course, sin was imputed, death resulted because of sin. SOO ,take ,with a grain of salt,"no imputation with out law", But .fact of the matter was, not many men understood, why their friends were dying, or how to prepare for death, because . God had "given them up to punishment with out a cure".! Rom. ch. one. NOW, move down to rom..5:19 "For as by one man's disobedience MANY"(not all,??why? because only the "many" will actually go to Hell)"were made sinners," (who, in the end, go to Hell), "so also by one Man;s obedience many" ( not all,why??, because only the ELECT will be born of God so they can go to Heaven), "will be MADE righteous." (born of God). What does the word "MADE" mean? "to cause to exist", "to appear", "to build" 2Cor.5:17 "a new creation" a totally new Nature, heart. self.. Made Holy Like God is holy, by nature, born again in Gods Image , with true knowledge of God, the true nature of holiness like God, and new conduct,holy actions like God.! NOW, please don't say ,that a Christian is tring to gain Heaven by works, He /she is only doing what comes naturally for the Child of God, born of God, living holy, like Christ lived holy, we are not perfect,like Christ, but we are tring to be perfect as Paul and all other Christians try to Please God in all we do. If one does not live Holy, they are not born again! Please learn the contrast between the "all" (the potential) and the "MANY" (the actual.) Love to all ,Hoffco

 

[JGIG]

As surety and guarantee of the New Covenant, Christ guarantees
that we will keep our part of the covenant (faith), and
that God will keep his part of the covenant (salvation).

Correct, we must have faith to be in the New Covenant, and we don't "keep" the New Covenant,
because Christ our surety and guarantee keeps us in the faith, through his Spirit, who gives faith
by grace (Ac 18:27; Php 1:29; Ro 12:3; 1Co 12:3; 2Pe 1:1).

You clearly said 'our part' and 'His part'.

You can't have it both ways.

God holds up all aspects of the New Covenant; we simply enter in by faith and partake in what He has done.

-JGIG

 

[Kerry]

What laws are still valid? Trust in the work of the cross and not your own. Law pleases flesh and pats the back of those who put faith in it. Flesh loves law and wallows in it and enjoys it. The cross offends that

 

[JGIG]

Hi, i see ,two of you ladies are on line, it is good that some of us are color blind,LOL, or not good,LOL ;just joking, My Father was color blink, I think, but in Christ, we are all color ,gender and status BLIND, LOL .! I really don't care what gender I'm talking to; we are all equal in Christ. And I try to respect all. But. Please, some times People take others way out of context, and put lies in their mouths. This is not kind. My point I am making, is WORDS are very important, to truth.! The word "impute" is very important, it means to give some one credit when they have not earned it. When we believe Jesus , God imputes to our account in Heaven ,Jesus perfect righteousness. NOW, THINK,OF, The opposite of impute, WHICH is the word, "impart" OR the word "input"; Both have to do with a change within the person. These two words refer to the New Nature which God GIVES us ,OR puts within us, or imparts to us , when He mades us born again. born of God. Most teachers today know, almost, nothing of the real change MADE in us by the NEW BIRTH. I have been trying to MAKE you see this truth; BUT it is going in one ear and out the other.! With this in mind, think of what the old Westminister conf. says: "sanctification begins in regeneration." (not an exact Qoute) Our thoughts are on Rom. 5:14 "nevertheless death reigned from Adam to Moses, " Of course, sin was imputed, death resulted because of sin. SOO ,take ,with a grain of salt,"no imputation with out law", But .fact of the matter was, not many men understood, why their friends were dying, or how to prepare for death, because . God had "given them up to punishment with out a cure".! Rom. ch. one. NOW, move down to rom..5:19 "For as by one man's disobedience MANY"(not all,??why? because only the "many" will actually go to Hell)"were made sinners," (who, in the end, go to Hell), "so also by one Man;s obedience many" ( not all,why??, because only the ELECT will be born of God so they can go to Heaven), "will be MADE righteous." (born of God). What does the word "MADE" mean? "to cause to exist", "to appear", "to build" 2Cor.5:17 "a new creation" a totally new Nature, heart. self.. Made Holy Like God is holy, by nature, born again in Gods Image , with true knowledge of God, the true nature of holiness like God, and new conduct,holy actions like God.! NOW, please don't say ,that a Christian is tring to gain Heaven by works, He /she is only doing what comes naturally for the Child of God, born of God, living holy, like Christ lived holy, we are not perfect,like Christ, but we are tring to be perfect as Paul and all other Christians try to Please God in all we do. If one does not live Holy, they are not born again! Please learn the contrast between the "all" (the potential) and the "MANY" (the actual.) Love to all ,Hoffco

Hey Hoffco - check out this free audio series. I think you'd really enjoy it - he goes to great lengths explaining the New Creation:

Audio teachings, all free downloads:

• The Clear Message of Grace Part 1 – Forgiveness (appx. 50 min.)

• The Clear Message of Grace Part 2 – Righteousness (appx. 65 min.)

• The Clear Message of Grace Part 3 – Unbroken Access to God (appx. 40 min.)

• The Clear Message of Grace Part 4 – No Longer Under the Law (appx. 50 min.)

• The Clear Message of Grace Part 5 – A New Nature (appx. 50 min.) – Note: Part 5 may have some language in it regarding the New Nature, referring to the New Nature as the ‘life-force of God’ that may make some uncomfortable. Please understand that the primary audience is in Hong Kong, where this local church is located, and that many of the Chinese folks there have backgrounds in Eastern religions, so that choice of terms resonates with and makes sense to them. I personally would rather that Ryan had emphasized dependence on the Holy Spirit in the last part of the teaching, however I understand the focus that he was bringing with this teaching, and that is this: We are New Creations in Christ. That MEANS something; we were intrinsically changed when we were forgiven of all our sins, filled with the Righteousness of Christ, and sealed with His Holy Spirit. We’re different now. We don’t look at and respond the same way in and to the world as we did before Christ did His Work IN us. While we still struggle with our mind and our flesh in this life, we need to recognize that our spirit is already seated in the heavenlies with Christ according to His Work and according to the Word of God (Ephesians 2:6-7). Overall, this series is excellent, giving a clear presentation of the Gospel and who we who believe in Christ are in Christ. Highly Recommended!

You may find listening to the following teachings by Bob George and Rob Rufus along with the above series to be helpful, as well:

• God’s Solution to Man’s Problem – Life! – Study notes for Bob’s teaching available HERE.

• How Wonderful is the Gospel - Have to add this one here, from Rob Rufus. Give it a listen, as well - you’ll be blessed!

Note: Ryan and Rob's teachings are from more of a charismatic stream of faith; Bob George from more of an Evngelical-cessationist stream of faith.

-JGIG

 

[Kerry]

Law pleases self. Get a grip that why we need the cross.

 

[Hoffco]

Hi, i see ,two of you ladies are on line, it is good that some of us are color blind,LOL, or not good,LOL ;just joking, My Father was color blink, I think, but in Christ, we are all color ,gender and status BLIND, LOL .! I really don't care what gender I'm talking to; we are all equal in Christ. And I try to respect all. But. Please, some times People take others way out of context, and put lies in their mouths. This is not kind. My point I am making, is WORDS are very important, to truth.! The word "impute" is very important, it means to give some one credit when they have not earned it. When we believe Jesus , God imputes to our account in Heaven ,Jesus perfect righteousness. NOW, THINK,OF, The opposite of impute, WHICH is the word, "impart" OR the word "input"; Both have to do with a change within the person. These two words refer to the New Nature which God GIVES us ,OR puts within us, or imparts to us , when He mades us born again. born of God. Most teachers today know, almost, nothing of the real change MADE in us by the NEW BIRTH. I have been trying to MAKE you see this truth; BUT it is going in one ear and out the other.! With this in mind, think of what the old Westminister conf. says: "sanctification begins in regeneration." (not an exact Qoute) Our thoughts are on Rom. 5:14 "nevertheless death reigned from Adam to Moses, " Of course, sin was imputed, death resulted because of sin. SOO ,take ,with a grain of salt,"no imputation with out law", But .fact of the matter was, not many men understood, why their friends were dying, or how to prepare for death, because . God had "given them up to punishment with out a cure".! Rom. ch. one. NOW, move down to rom..5:19 "For as by one man's disobedience MANY"(not all,??why? because only the "many" will actually go to Hell)"were made sinners," (who, in the end, go to Hell), "so also by one Man;s obedience many" ( not all,why??, because only the ELECT will be born of God so they can go to Heaven), "will be MADE righteous." (born of God). What does the word "MADE" mean? "to cause to exist", "to appear", "to build" 2Cor.5:17 "a new creation" a totally new Nature, heart. self.. Made Holy Like God is holy, by nature, born again in Gods Image , with true knowledge of God, the true nature of holiness like God, and new conduct,holy actions like God.! NOW, please don't say ,that a Christian is tring to gain Heaven by works, He /she is only doing what comes naturally for the Child of God, born of God, living holy, like Christ lived holy, we are not perfect,like Christ, but we are tring to be perfect as Paul and all other Christians try to Please God in all we do. If one does not live Holy, they are not born again! Please learn the contrast between the "all" (the potential) and the "MANY" (the actual.) Love to all ,Hoffco

 

[Hoffco]

I will isten to this series, if my Pc. cooperates for me. The onlything I see that could be wrong, is the Order of application is wrong in salvation; it says the new nature is 5th, but in God's order , the new birth ,the new nature is first, bcause we are dead and dead people need life input or imparted into their souls before they can com to Christ for forgiveness. Dead souls don't love God or want forgiveness. Must leave for down town. wife called. God bless, Hoffco

 

[JGIG]

I will isten to this series, if my Pc. cooperates for me. The onlything I see that could be wrong, is the Order of application is wrong in salvation; it says the new nature is 5th, but in God's order , the new birth ,the new nature is first, bcause we are dead and dead people need life input or imparted into their souls before they can com to Christ for forgiveness. Dead souls don't love God or want forgiveness. Must leave for down town. wife called. God bless, Hoffco

Forgiveness has to come first, in order for righteousness to be imputed. We have to be cleansed of all unrighteousness (1 John 1:9 - forgiven) before the righteousness of God can be imputed.

Then the sealing of the Holy Spirit comes, which is the New Life restored and guaranteed (Eternal Life - Ephesians 1).

Then we can bear the Fruit that the Spirit produces through us (Galatians 5) .

The progression is presented especially well in this teaching:

God’s Solution to Man’s Problem – Life!

I hope you enjoy the teachings!

Grace and peace to you,
-JGIG

 

[HeRoseFromTheDead]

And the Holy Spirit does not convict believers of sin. There is NO contextual Scripture to support that notion.

Then who does?

 

[HeRoseFromTheDead]

You clearly said 'our part' and 'His part'.

You can't have it both ways.

God holds up all aspects of the New Covenant; we simply enter in by faith and partake in what He has done.

In a covenant both parties have responsibilities. Ours is simply to abide in what Christ has done through faith. GOD gives faith, but he can't make us choose to utilize it.

 

[HeRoseFromTheDead]

Would you like to explain Ro 5:13-14?

What is there to explain?

• Laws of GOD existed before Moses (Genesis 26:5)
• There was no letter of law before Moses (that we know of)
• Sins against unwritten laws before the law of Moses were not imputed
• All men between Adam and Moses died because all were sinners, and sinners are by nature spiritually dead

 

[homwardbound]

I'm not following how depicting and separating the different works of the persons in the Trinity,
which Scripture itself presents, leads to self works.

Everything in Scripture is profitable, never unprofitable.


And with good authority, that of the Greek.

For "unbelief" and "disobedience" are the same Greek word, apeitheo, and are one and the same thing.

Disobedience manifests unbelief, and
unbelief results in disobedience.

interpretation (s) is none other than either of the self flesh for self gain and masquerades well.
Or of God spiritually discerned form God to the believer, those whom God has chosen to have Mercy on through the cross of son and none other.
God will have Mercy on whom God chooses, why? because God knows each and every persons Motive.
So maybe we all need to see this and just:
THOUGHT FOR THE DAY
Lesson our judgement of others. We never see the whole picture. Never.
there are 1,000 reasons a person can behave a particular way. We don't know what is going on in their movie that motivates them to act in that way. I never know how I'd behave if I were in the other shoes. Today little by little, it would be good to learn to be more forgiving. Learn to where we can come from a place of help, rather than Judgement.

Judgements are only based on what one sees, from their owns thoughts. From their own experiences. There is truly only one that knows all. that one would be and is the creator of all.
If one learns to listen to the creator as Jesus Christ revealed to all mankind. (Christ taught us, to do nothing or say nothing w/o Father's instruction first and foremost), we would make the right judgements, with out condemnation. ( coming from the one listening),much less likely
The ones that argued would reveal their true selves, as was done in the day of visitation from our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ.
Steer clear from arguements, seek the truth in all things and one shall be free from the world and it's traps.

Then with no motive but to know Father:

"Comfort God by letting God know that you would see God just to dwell in God's Presence. Not for teaching, not for material gain, not even for a message, but for God. The longing of the human heart to be loved for itself is something caught from the Great Divine Heart."

Sister can we both grow together?