What Laws are still valid to christians

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Welshman

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#3,641
REF previous post # 3019 life n judgement through the son? .. I'm still awaiting a reply from a strict lAWKEEPER with what thier answer is ? No mistaking Jesus own words here? Now my issue is for the umpteenth time I ask but the debate moves on to other things sustaining argument when its not needed and avoids the crucial points? I'm willing take Jesus at his word not digress and engage in semantics for further diversion. Is Jesus wrong in John 5 v 24 /47 ?? If so please show me how and I add again rev 22v18 it applies to every one ever born including all alive today ? I dnt know a believer who does not treat his with the utmost respect when dealing with our lords word amen
 
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Elin

Banned
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Jan 19, 2013
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homwardbound said:
Did those disciples spend time reading the First Testament and making sure all was true or did they continue in Prayer for the finished work of Christ to come forth to all those that received that day on Pentecost?
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They did both.

It's not either/or, it's both and.
 
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Elin

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Jan 19, 2013
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#3,643
Welshman said:
No one said faith dnt come by hearing? Its plain it does? Not my words?
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You said faith didn't come by reading.

Faith comes by both.

Jesus never said anything about faith coming by hearing, nor about faith not coming by reading.

The NT does not bar faith by reading.
 
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Welshman

Guest
#3,644
#3,644
What is Romans 10 v 17 saying then? Its clear and faith comes by hearing, hearing the message of Christ? What do you mean faith comes by reading? Then you say scripture doesn't prevent faith coming by reading then you said scripture doesn't bar faith by reading? All your words elin in last 2 pages ? Its there in Romans? Show me one verse were it says that faith came to anyone by diligence of the scriptures? Please show me I'd love to read it, you simply wnt accept me saying my faith in the son is the hope I hold of being conformed to his likeness and be pleasing to the father my faith only?? Simple really bt sme cnt accept the simplicity in Christ Jesus
 
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Elin

Banned
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Jan 19, 2013
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#3,645
Welshman said:
Tell me were in new t. It says that faith does come by reading? You imply

nowere does it say it doesn't come by reading?
So logically it should say it does come by reading?
We're is that scripture ?
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Likewise, nowhere does it say the sun doesn't rise twice on Tuesdays.

So logically it should say it does rise twice on Tuesdays.

Where is that Scripture?

And bk to John chapter five , life and judgement through the son? What is your reply to this verse ? Jesus speaking clearly lays it out? Are you saying it means something else or I'm misunderstanding its application and its meaning. ? There need be no more debate once this is cleared up so il await your enlightenment on it
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I don't know to what you are referring and do not understand what you are asking me.

I find life and judgment through the Son in John chapter five, vv. 21-22.

They are part of Jesus' claims in vv. 17-27 showing that he is
equal with God (Jn 5:18, 8:19, 12:44-45, 14:7-9, 16:15, 17:10); i.e., doing what God does (Jn 5:19)

  • as the Father works, so the Son works (miracles) - (Jn 5:17)
  • as the Father gives life, so the Son gives life (Jn 5:21)
  • as the Father is Judge, so the Son is Judge (Jn 5:22)
  • as the Father is to be honored, so the Son is to be honored (Jn 5:23)
  • as the Father has (eternal) life in himself, so the Son has (eternal) life in himself (Jn 5:26)
  • as the Father sends with authority and power, so the Son sends with authority and power (Jn 20:21)
  • as the Father confers the kingdom, so the Son confers the kingdom (Lk 22:29)
  • as the Father is Lawgiver, so the Son is Lawgiver (Mt 5:23-47, 12:7-8, 19:9, 21:23-27, chp 23)
I don't know what else to add since I don't understand what you are asking me.

... Regards red herring I dnt understand that and whats it in reply too
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It's in reply to your following:

Elin said:
Welshman said:
You still seem to have to put forth effort of your own strentgh to be pleasing god? This my friend is impossible? And contrary to our lords command to believe and walk in him? This is the source of dispute on here?
You and others feel you have to strive in many ways. . .stop trying to please the Lord by self-effort
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Wrong call here. . .and red herring.
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A red herring is a false argument, usually to distract from or derail from refuting the true argument.

Since I do not strive to please God by self-effort, the argument you are addressing is false.
 
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Elin

Banned
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Jan 19, 2013
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#3,647
Welshman said:
What is Romans 10 v 17 saying then? Its clear and faith comes by hearing, hearing the message of Christ?
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Jesus is not speaking in Romans, Paul is.

Jesus said nothing about faith coming by hearing, Paul said that.

What do you mean faith comes by reading? Then you say scripture doesn't prevent faith coming by reading then you said scripture doesn't bar faith by reading? All your words elin in last 2 pages ? Its there in Romans? Show me one verse were it says that faith came to anyone by diligence of the scriptures? Please show me I'd love to read it,
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Then read the account in Ac 8:26-35 of the Ethiopian coming to faith through reading the Scriptures, and Phillip explaining to him what he read.

Then ask Hoffco how he came to saving faith.

And lastly, ask me. . .I came to saving faith by the powerful witness of the Holy Spirit as I read the Scriptures.
No other human was around.
 
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MidniteWelder

Guest
#3,648
#3,648
18For truly I tell you, until heaven and earth disappear,
not the smallest letter, not the least stroke of a pen, will by any means disappear from the Law until everything is accomplished.


Howd this get to 183 pages long?
 
HeRoseFromTheDead

HeRoseFromTheDead

Senior Member
#3,649
Sep 4, 2012
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#3,649
MidniteWelder said:
18For truly I tell you, until heaven and earth disappear,
not the smallest letter, not the least stroke of a pen, will by any means disappear from the Law until everything is accomplished.


Howd this get to 183 pages long?
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19 For I through the law am dead to the law, that I might live unto God.

Because some people don't believe what's written about the new covenant.
 
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letti

Guest
#3,650
#3,650
There is therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus,who walk not after flesh,but after the Spirit.For the law of the Spirit of life In Christ Jesus hath made me free from the law of Sin and Death.Romans chapter 8 verses 1 and 2.
 
homwardbound

homwardbound

Senior Member
#3,651
Oct 24, 2012
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#3,651
Welshman said:
I won't reply to hoffco until he says he truly sorry for calling me homeward bound and jgig liars? Disgracing gods word and his plan of salvation, many others offended too yet he still calls me pig headed? Il let others judge my posts? Not me? But il simply take no notice off hoffco until this apology is brought forth? I know we are doing our best to show a light in a darkened room and to free some from bondage to law to freedom in Christ and his gift of grace to those he calls and chooses? Calling brothers liars heretics and casting judgement on us?, from a man? Please... Me n homeward started with bit of difficulty and still not agree 100% but my respect for this man has blossomed I see his heart through his words I see fruits present even wen sorely tested this man loves Jesus and knows his word too make no mistake readers this man has gods word in abundance bt never boasts he hardly will accept a compliment lol bt a liar a heretic a misguider in gods message a false teacher NEVER never would I accept such words toward this man ? Hoffco is law unto himself and we are all wrong? Never seen homwardbound lose his cool never accusing never condemning anyone nor have I amen
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Please, I am not perfect in and of me ever, I have no righteousness ever of my own, before /saved and or after.
I have righteousness though and it is not mine ever, it is God's shown to us trough Christ, for us to be believers and in acceptance to partake in his righteousness, given to us to use righteously, in loving all to this amazing grace from God through Son

Love you Hoffco, praying for you to come to unconditional love of Father to all,
 
homwardbound

homwardbound

Senior Member
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Oct 24, 2012
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Elin said:
Jesus is not speaking in Romans, Paul is.

Jesus said nothing about faith coming by hearing, Paul said that.


Then read the account in Ac 8:26-35 of the Ethiopian coming to faith through reading the Scriptures, and Phillip explaining to him what he read.

Then ask Hoffco how he came to saving faith.

And lastly, ask me. . .I came to saving faith by the powerful witness of the Holy Spirit as I read the Scriptures.
No other human was around.
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Are you really that much into semantics Sister. Did God preach through Paul and are we not called to do the same as Paul said he is are we not to believe this too for ourselves to be out of the way, in trusting God, no works of or from self?
Galatians 2:20
I am crucified with Christ: nevertheless I live; yet not I, but Christ liveth in me: and the life which I now live in the flesh I live by the faith of the Son of God, who loved me, and gave himself for me.

Is the above verse just for Paul or for us to?
 
homwardbound

homwardbound

Senior Member
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Oct 24, 2012
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#3,655
MidniteWelder said:
18For truly I tell you, until heaven and earth disappear,
not the smallest letter, not the least stroke of a pen, will by any means disappear from the Law until everything is accomplished.


Howd this get to 183 pages long?
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What is not accomplished yet is in the one's that do not believe Christ or Father of that the Law and Prophets are fulfilled in and through Son. Unbelievers are under Law to, lead them to Christ, The believers are filled and or getting filled as God (if God is their teacher) teaches them truth that sets them free in God through Son's finished fro them at the cross
Colossians 1:22 in the body of his flesh through death, to present you holy and unblameable and unreproveable in his sight:

You by Christ's finished work are made Holy to be presented to Father as such to get the new life in the Spirit and be dead to flesh. This new life after death to self in one's mindset leaving carnality behind, gains new life in the Spirit that they were originally born dead to a free gift from God the Father of Christ
For God today can only be worshipped in Spirit and truth John 4:23-24



  1. John 4:23
    But the hour cometh, and now is, when the true worshippers shall worship the Father in spirit and in truth: for the Father seeketh such to worship him.
    John 4:22-24 (in Context) John 4 (Whole Chapter) Other Translations
  2. John 4:24 God is a Spirit: and they that worship him must worship him in spirit and in truth.
    John 4:23-25 (in Context) John 4 (Whole Chapter) Other Translations
 
homwardbound

homwardbound

Senior Member
#3,656
Oct 24, 2012
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#3,656
letti said:
There is therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus,who walk not after flesh,but after the Spirit.For the law of the Spirit of life In Christ Jesus hath made me free from the law of Sin and Death.Romans chapter 8 verses 1 and 2.
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so, let us all learn to live by the Spirit of God and forsake flesh. sounds like truth to me thanks Letti
 
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Welshman

Guest
#3,657
#3,657
I've cottoned on to many on here and semantics is indeed the driver keeping this thread going, now I ask how can we establish truth in gods word when semantics is the driver? This profits no one and for that reason alone I only post when I think its needed for clarity, il not enter endless debate for we with semantics at play we shall be here forever?
 
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Elin

Banned
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Jan 19, 2013
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#3,658
homwardbound said:
Yes I agree, but my ? was and is has God stopped talking? does he talk o his sheep to this very day?
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The only speaking that he does today which is authorized for the Church is his word written.

If it's not in the word written, it has no authority for the Church, God's one people composed of Jew and Gentile.
 
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Elin

Banned
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Jan 19, 2013
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#3,659
homwardbound said:
Are you really that much into semantics Sister. Did God preach through Paul and are we not called to do the same as Paul said he is are we not to believe this too for ourselves to be out of the way, in trusting God, no works of or from self?
Galatians 2:20
I am crucified with Christ: nevertheless I live; yet not I, but Christ liveth in me: and the life which I now live in the flesh I live by the faith of the Son of God, who loved me, and gave himself for me.

Is the above verse just for Paul or for us to?
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Yes, all of the NT is the revelation of Christ Jesus.

The point was the words of Jesus.
 
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Welshman

Guest
#3,660
#3,660
The revelation of Jesus and the words of Jesus are one and the same? We dnt split hairs with anything Jesus says is or does its all Jesus to us in n.t believers , I notice that some though find many reasons to try seperate a lot of Jesus and all that he is to defend thier own beliefs? This I dnt understand but it is what I see....
 
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