What Laws are still valid to christians
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I honestly believe you have been so caught up in your expose' that you think I am advocating that one needs to keep the Mosaic law in order to be justified. I'm saying however, that the law still has great purpose for today. I never did, and never will, advocate that it's a ticket to justification.
Is the law a man you ask?
I call it the "Mosaic Law" not because of the person who wrote it down, but the one who gave it to the person who wrote it down.
Try going back in the posts and read the scripture that I presented to you that you never addressed. If you agree with them, then your argument is vain. If not, we then can talk about those. This post of yours reciting chapter 1 is superfluous to me.
Is the law a man you ask?
I call it the "Mosaic Law" not because of the person who wrote it down, but the one who gave it to the person who wrote it down.Try going back in the posts and read the scripture that I presented to you that you never addressed. If you agree with them, then your argument is vain. If not, we then can talk about those. This post of yours reciting chapter 1 is superfluous to me.
Originally Posted by Hizikyah
The "OT" verse that prophecises this "new" covenant, get with a Hebrew scholar form Hebrew University and
you will see it is re-newed covenant .
Originally Posted by just-me
Hizikyah is right. There was a covenant prophesied with all Israel from Ezekiel. The ten tribes known in prophecy are Ephraim enslaved by the Assyrians, and Judah, captured by the Babylonians. Ephraim is still scattered. The renewed covenant is to bring them back together again and Christ Jesus as King and High Priest rather than David, and Solomon as King, and the Priesthood being of Levi. Jesus and Judah are the RENEWED covenant.
Luke 22:20 (KJV)
[SUP]20 [/SUP]Likewise also the cup after supper, saying, This cup is the "new testament" (not covenant) in my blood, which is shed for you.
The only one who was referring to Luke is you. So I took the liberty of quoting it, even though I don't think Hizikyah and I were referring to that scripture previously. Hizikyah was clearly referring to the "OT" so I'll re-post the scriptures that I posted earlier in reference to what I thought he was addressing.
Lamentations 5:21 (KJV)
[SUP]21 [/SUP]Turn thou us unto thee, O LORD, and we shall be turned; renew our days as of old.
Colossians 3:9-10 (KJV)
[SUP]9 [/SUP]Lie not one to another, seeing that ye have put off the old man with his deeds;
[SUP]10 [/SUP]And have put on the new man, which is renewed in knowledge after the image of him that created him:
Jeremiah 31:31 (KJV)
[SUP]31 [/SUP]Behold, the days come, saith the LORD, that I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel, and with the house of Judah:
Ezekiel 37:16-22 (KJV)
[SUP]16 [/SUP]Moreover, thou son of man, take thee one stick, and write upon it, For Judah, and for the children of Israel his companions: then take another stick, and write upon it, For Joseph, the stick of Ephraim, and for all the house of Israel his companions:
[SUP]17 [/SUP]And join them one to another into one stick; and they shall become one in thine hand.
[SUP]18 [/SUP]And when the children of thy people shall speak unto thee, saying, Wilt thou not shew us what thoumeanest by these?
[SUP]19 [/SUP]Say unto them, Thus saith the Lord GOD; Behold, I will take the stick of Joseph, which is in the hand of Ephraim, and the tribes of Israel his fellows, and will put them with him, even with the stick of Judah, and make them one stick, and they shall be one in mine hand.
[SUP]20 [/SUP]And the sticks whereon thou writest shall be in thine hand before their eyes.
[SUP]21 [/SUP]And say unto them, Thus saith the Lord GOD; Behold, I will take the children of Israel from among the heathen, whither they be gone, and will gather them on every side, and bring them into their own land:
[SUP]22 [/SUP]And I will make them one nation in the land upon the mountains of Israel; and one king shall be king to them all: and they shall be no more two nations, neither shall they be divided into two kingdoms any more at all:
"Renewed" "renew" "Renewest" renewing"........ none of these words are in the book of Luke that I can find according to Strong's.
Now for the word "new" in Luke 22:20. It was the New "Testament" that Jesus was talking about.
Hizikyah was talking about the "renewed covenant."
FYI and others that read this, Testament is a contract for a will, as in last will and testament.
Covenant is in Luke 1:72 which is the same Greek word. The Holy Spirit however, exhorted the people through Zacharias, an Old Testament priest, to remember what was written in Genesis 12:2.
His words spoken by the Holy Spirit go right back to the promise with Israel that I quoted, meaning a compact, or confederacy, an agreement, i.e. covenant, which Hizikyah was talking about.
The "OT" verse that prophecises this "new" covenant, get with a Hebrew scholar form Hebrew University and
you will see it is re-newed covenant .
Originally Posted by just-me
Hizikyah is right. There was a covenant prophesied with all Israel from Ezekiel. The ten tribes known in prophecy are Ephraim enslaved by the Assyrians, and Judah, captured by the Babylonians. Ephraim is still scattered. The renewed covenant is to bring them back together again and Christ Jesus as King and High Priest rather than David, and Solomon as King, and the Priesthood being of Levi. Jesus and Judah are the RENEWED covenant.
Luke 22:20 (KJV)
[SUP]20 [/SUP]Likewise also the cup after supper, saying, This cup is the "new testament" (not covenant) in my blood, which is shed for you.
The only one who was referring to Luke is you. So I took the liberty of quoting it, even though I don't think Hizikyah and I were referring to that scripture previously. Hizikyah was clearly referring to the "OT" so I'll re-post the scriptures that I posted earlier in reference to what I thought he was addressing.
Lamentations 5:21 (KJV)
[SUP]21 [/SUP]Turn thou us unto thee, O LORD, and we shall be turned; renew our days as of old.
Colossians 3:9-10 (KJV)
[SUP]9 [/SUP]Lie not one to another, seeing that ye have put off the old man with his deeds;
[SUP]10 [/SUP]And have put on the new man, which is renewed in knowledge after the image of him that created him:
Jeremiah 31:31 (KJV)
[SUP]31 [/SUP]Behold, the days come, saith the LORD, that I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel, and with the house of Judah:
Ezekiel 37:16-22 (KJV)
[SUP]16 [/SUP]Moreover, thou son of man, take thee one stick, and write upon it, For Judah, and for the children of Israel his companions: then take another stick, and write upon it, For Joseph, the stick of Ephraim, and for all the house of Israel his companions:
[SUP]17 [/SUP]And join them one to another into one stick; and they shall become one in thine hand.
[SUP]18 [/SUP]And when the children of thy people shall speak unto thee, saying, Wilt thou not shew us what thoumeanest by these?
[SUP]19 [/SUP]Say unto them, Thus saith the Lord GOD; Behold, I will take the stick of Joseph, which is in the hand of Ephraim, and the tribes of Israel his fellows, and will put them with him, even with the stick of Judah, and make them one stick, and they shall be one in mine hand.
[SUP]20 [/SUP]And the sticks whereon thou writest shall be in thine hand before their eyes.
[SUP]21 [/SUP]And say unto them, Thus saith the Lord GOD; Behold, I will take the children of Israel from among the heathen, whither they be gone, and will gather them on every side, and bring them into their own land:
[SUP]22 [/SUP]And I will make them one nation in the land upon the mountains of Israel; and one king shall be king to them all: and they shall be no more two nations, neither shall they be divided into two kingdoms any more at all:
"Renewed" "renew" "Renewest" renewing"........ none of these words are in the book of Luke that I can find according to Strong's.
Now for the word "new" in Luke 22:20. It was the New "Testament" that Jesus was talking about.
Hizikyah was talking about the "renewed covenant."
FYI and others that read this, Testament is a contract for a will, as in last will and testament.
Covenant is in Luke 1:72 which is the same Greek word. The Holy Spirit however, exhorted the people through Zacharias, an Old Testament priest, to remember what was written in Genesis 12:2.
His words spoken by the Holy Spirit go right back to the promise with Israel that I quoted, meaning a compact, or confederacy, an agreement, i.e. covenant, which Hizikyah was talking about.
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Previously posted by just-me
Galatians 3:21-22 (KJV)
[SUP]21 [/SUP]Is the law then against the promises of God? God forbid: for if there had been a law given which could have given life, verily righteousness should have been by the law.
[SUP]22 [/SUP]But the scripture hath concluded all under sin, that the promise by faith of Jesus Christ might be given to them that believe.
One must keep in mind that the law is not against God’s purpose.
I see you agreed in past tense. Are you advocating that the law no longer is of any use because it has already served its purpose? (Set aside permanently) If that is the case, I would suggest that you cross out that verse, because it no longer applies for you today. As far as I’m concerned, I still use this truth for myself because I’m still identifying my shortcomings.
Galatians 3:21-22 (KJV)
[SUP]21 [/SUP]Is the law then against the promises of God? God forbid: for if there had been a law given which could have given life, verily righteousness should have been by the law.
[SUP]22 [/SUP]But the scripture hath concluded all under sin, that the promise by faith of Jesus Christ might be given to them that believe.
One must keep in mind that the law is not against God’s purpose.
I see you agreed in past tense. Are you advocating that the law no longer is of any use because it has already served its purpose? (Set aside permanently) If that is the case, I would suggest that you cross out that verse, because it no longer applies for you today. As far as I’m concerned, I still use this truth for myself because I’m still identifying my shortcomings.
I have addressed that multiple times now.
However, it's called the Mosaic law in the NT because of the person to whom it was given.
The Scriptures you present are to refute your wrong understandings of the subjects, and therefore
do not apply.
However, if you would like to reconcile the Scriptures you presented to the exegesis of the Scriptures
I presented, that would be nice.
Is the law a man you ask? I call it the "Mosaic Law" not because of the person who wrote it down, but the one who gave it to the person who wrote it down.
I call it the "Mosaic Law" not because of the person who wrote it down, but the one who gave it to the person who wrote it down.
The Scriptures you present are to refute your wrong understandings of the subjects, and therefore
do not apply.
However, if you would like to reconcile the Scriptures you presented to the exegesis of the Scriptures
I presented, that would be nice.
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A testament and a covenant are the same Greek word, diatheke,
and are the same thing (Heb 9:15-18).
Your point?
Are you saying Jesus did not call the covenant new (kainos), but renewed (ananeeo)?
And now it's no longer the argument itself, but is the argument about the argument.
However, they have no bearing on Jesus' words in Lk 22:20, where he called the covenant new, and not "renewed."
And reposting them won't change that.
and are the same thing (Heb 9:15-18).
Your point?
Are you saying Jesus did not call the covenant new (kainos), but renewed (ananeeo)?
And now it's no longer the argument itself, but is the argument about the argument.
However, they have no bearing on Jesus' words in Lk 22:20, where he called the covenant new, and not "renewed."
And reposting them won't change that.
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In summary, you present scriptures that negate other parts of scriptures, and skew the direction of anyone that might want to converse in a manner of integrity. All I have said in simplicity is that all of scripture is a relevant today as from the beginning for good reason that God has given to complete through Christ. You however are arguing that it was God’s original intent to negate, and put aside His own Words from the beginning. Evidently you think that God does not have the foreknowledge to use all that He has ever said in the history of mankind. You endorse scripture that one can use to intentionally sound contradictory to most other scriptures including the words of Christ Himself. I have presented scripture that you never addressed that complements the entire Word of God. Leviticus 19:15-18, John 5:44-47, Matthew 5:17-20 Romans 12:1, John 1:45, Deuteronomy 6:1-6, Deuteronomy 18:15-19, Isaiah 9:6-7, John 12:34, in fact the entire Word of God.
The law didn’t work for justification because of human iniquity, not because God wanted to make it disappear, and then call it new. If God’s Word didn’t work, it was for sure not His fault, it was ours, and He knew it would be that way. If we get rid of it, there is no further purpose to God’s Word that He has given previously. If that could possibly be true (which it isn’t) who is going to be able to trust Him in the future because God’s Word can’t be trusted? One more thought, I can understand all the scripture you present, and it correlates with all the scriptures that I have issued to you. I can’t say the same thing about your limited understanding. Some day you will see, hope it isn’t too late.
I can see that you’re involved more with your intellect than whoever you are interacting with, and cannot, or will not listen or reason with others’ thoughts. I don’t contend very long with people portraying such an attitude. By now, I’m sure that anyone reading our responses with each other have gotten bored with the confusing foolishness.
I have better and much more productive things to do than go round and round with an idea that I think makes God appear as indecisive, and a reconnoiterer deleting foundations and principles that He instituted in the past.
I’m not a genius, but I’m wise enough to know ALL scripture is true because God's nonsense is wiser than humanity's wisdom. And God's weakness is stronger than humanity's strength. I see those whom God has called. Not many are wise by the world's standards, and not many wield power or will brag of a noble birth. God chose what the world considers nonsense in order to shame the wise; God chose what the world considers weak in order to shame the strong;
1 Corinthians 1:27 (KJV)
[SUP]27 [/SUP]But God hath chosen the foolish things of the world to confound the wise; and God hath chosen the weak things of the world to confound the things which are mighty;
Luke 24:25-27 (KJV)
[SUP]25 [/SUP]Then he said unto them, O fools, and slow of heart to believe ALL that the prophets have spoken:
[SUP]26 [/SUP]Ought not Christ to have suffered these things, and to enter into his glory?
[SUP]27 [/SUP]And beginning at Moses and all the prophets, he expounded unto them in ALL the scriptures the things concerning himself.
The law didn’t work for justification because of human iniquity, not because God wanted to make it disappear, and then call it new. If God’s Word didn’t work, it was for sure not His fault, it was ours, and He knew it would be that way. If we get rid of it, there is no further purpose to God’s Word that He has given previously. If that could possibly be true (which it isn’t) who is going to be able to trust Him in the future because God’s Word can’t be trusted? One more thought, I can understand all the scripture you present, and it correlates with all the scriptures that I have issued to you. I can’t say the same thing about your limited understanding. Some day you will see, hope it isn’t too late.
I can see that you’re involved more with your intellect than whoever you are interacting with, and cannot, or will not listen or reason with others’ thoughts. I don’t contend very long with people portraying such an attitude. By now, I’m sure that anyone reading our responses with each other have gotten bored with the confusing foolishness.
I have better and much more productive things to do than go round and round with an idea that I think makes God appear as indecisive, and a reconnoiterer deleting foundations and principles that He instituted in the past.
I’m not a genius, but I’m wise enough to know ALL scripture is true because God's nonsense is wiser than humanity's wisdom. And God's weakness is stronger than humanity's strength. I see those whom God has called. Not many are wise by the world's standards, and not many wield power or will brag of a noble birth. God chose what the world considers nonsense in order to shame the wise; God chose what the world considers weak in order to shame the strong;
1 Corinthians 1:27 (KJV)
[SUP]27 [/SUP]But God hath chosen the foolish things of the world to confound the wise; and God hath chosen the weak things of the world to confound the things which are mighty;
Luke 24:25-27 (KJV)
[SUP]25 [/SUP]Then he said unto them, O fools, and slow of heart to believe ALL that the prophets have spoken:
[SUP]26 [/SUP]Ought not Christ to have suffered these things, and to enter into his glory?
[SUP]27 [/SUP]And beginning at Moses and all the prophets, he expounded unto them in ALL the scriptures the things concerning himself.
You and I know the answer to that, and it's the same. I question why you would ask, for I have never advocated that we need to keep the law to be saved. In fact just the opposite. The law is a teacher to show us our faults and to confess them and repent from them. I know why you asked that question so you don't need to explain.
K
There is just one law that applies to man and that is to accept the work that Jesus did on the cross. Please, please, please tell something else you can do. We are lost with no hope except the cross. So read and study, what does that avail. Your forty days of purpose accomplished what? Now I'm gonna bang you, so you preach the gospel, what does that do for you? I guess it makes you feel better, but its not about feeling. Feeling is flesh. So please tell me what you can do?
So then let us be as Paul:
Galatians 2:20 I am crucified with Christ: nevertheless I live; yet not I, but Christ liveth in me: and the life which I now live in the flesh I live by the faith of the Son of God, who loved me, and gave himself for me.
Or is that just for Paul, or is it by God for us all?
Galatians 2:20 I am crucified with Christ: nevertheless I live; yet not I, but Christ liveth in me: and the life which I now live in the flesh I live by the faith of the Son of God, who loved me, and gave himself for me.
Or is that just for Paul, or is it by God for us all?
Being made alive in the Spirit of God through the Son, brings back the whole of the body. It is not "I" that lives anymore it is Christ in my stead that lives, therefore as Paul, we are also
Galatians 2:20 I am crucified with Christ: nevertheless I live; yet not I, but Christ liveth in me: and the life which I now live in the flesh I live by the faith of the Son of God, who loved me, and gave himself for me.
Galatians 2:20 I am crucified with Christ: nevertheless I live; yet not I, but Christ liveth in me: and the life which I now live in the flesh I live by the faith of the Son of God, who loved me, and gave himself for me.
So then how do we reconcile we are in a new Covenant, when death of Christ took place, actually in the Abrahamic Covenant by Faith in the order of Melchizadek, and the new laws written on our new hearts are love God's type
God's type of love 1 Cor. 13:4-13, received to us in the resurrected Spirit of Christ.
New Covenant Heb. 9:15-17
In the order of: Heb.7:11, not in the order of the Levitical Priesthood, Jesus was not from the Levite tribe.
New law of Love, Heb. 7:12
God's type of love 1 Cor. 13:4-13, received to us in the resurrected Spirit of Christ.
New Covenant Heb. 9:15-17
In the order of: Heb.7:11, not in the order of the Levitical Priesthood, Jesus was not from the Levite tribe.
New law of Love, Heb. 7:12
Sorry the forever priesthood
[h=3]Hebrews 7:11[/h]King James Version (KJV)
[SUP]11 [/SUP]If therefore perfection were by the Levitical priesthood, (for under it the people received the law,) what further need was there that another priest should rise after the order of Melchisedec, and not be called after the order of Aaron
Genesis 14:18
And Melchizedek king of Salem brought forth bread and wine: and he was the priest of the most high God
Psalm 110:4
The Lord hath sworn, and will not repent, Thou art a priest for ever after the order of Melchizedek.
[h=3]Hebrews 7[/h]King James Version (KJV)
7 For this Melchisedec, king of Salem, priest of the most high God, who met Abraham returning from the slaughter of the kings, and blessed him;
[SUP]2 [/SUP]To whom also Abraham gave a tenth part of all; first being by interpretation King of righteousness, and after that also King of Salem, which is, King of peace;
[SUP]3 [/SUP]Without father, without mother, without descent, having neither beginning of days, nor end of life; but made like unto the Son of God; abideth a priest continually.
[SUP]4 [/SUP]Now consider how great this man was, unto whom even the patriarch Abraham gave the tenth of the spoils.
[SUP]5 [/SUP]And verily they that are of the sons of Levi, who receive the office of the priesthood, have a commandment to take tithes of the people according to the law, that is, of their brethren, though they come out of the loins of Abraham:
[SUP]6 [/SUP]But he whose descent is not counted from them received tithes of Abraham, and blessed him that had the promises.
[SUP]7 [/SUP]And without all contradiction the less is blessed of the better.
[SUP]8 [/SUP]And here men that die receive tithes; but there he receiveth them, of whom it is witnessed that he liveth.
[SUP]9 [/SUP]And as I may so say, Levi also, who receiveth tithes, payed tithes in Abraham.
[SUP]10 [/SUP]For he was yet in the loins of his father, when Melchisedec met him.
[SUP]11 [/SUP]If therefore perfection were by the Levitical priesthood, (for under it the people received the law,) what further need was there that another priest should rise after the order of Melchisedec, and not be called after the order of Aaron?
[SUP]12 [/SUP]For the priesthood being changed, there is made of necessity a change also of the law.
[h=3]Hebrews 7:11[/h]King James Version (KJV)
[SUP]11 [/SUP]If therefore perfection were by the Levitical priesthood, (for under it the people received the law,) what further need was there that another priest should rise after the order of Melchisedec, and not be called after the order of Aaron
Genesis 14:18
And Melchizedek king of Salem brought forth bread and wine: and he was the priest of the most high God
Psalm 110:4
The Lord hath sworn, and will not repent, Thou art a priest for ever after the order of Melchizedek.
[h=3]Hebrews 7[/h]King James Version (KJV)
7 For this Melchisedec, king of Salem, priest of the most high God, who met Abraham returning from the slaughter of the kings, and blessed him;
[SUP]2 [/SUP]To whom also Abraham gave a tenth part of all; first being by interpretation King of righteousness, and after that also King of Salem, which is, King of peace;
[SUP]3 [/SUP]Without father, without mother, without descent, having neither beginning of days, nor end of life; but made like unto the Son of God; abideth a priest continually.
[SUP]4 [/SUP]Now consider how great this man was, unto whom even the patriarch Abraham gave the tenth of the spoils.
[SUP]5 [/SUP]And verily they that are of the sons of Levi, who receive the office of the priesthood, have a commandment to take tithes of the people according to the law, that is, of their brethren, though they come out of the loins of Abraham:
[SUP]6 [/SUP]But he whose descent is not counted from them received tithes of Abraham, and blessed him that had the promises.
[SUP]7 [/SUP]And without all contradiction the less is blessed of the better.
[SUP]8 [/SUP]And here men that die receive tithes; but there he receiveth them, of whom it is witnessed that he liveth.
[SUP]9 [/SUP]And as I may so say, Levi also, who receiveth tithes, payed tithes in Abraham.
[SUP]10 [/SUP]For he was yet in the loins of his father, when Melchisedec met him.
[SUP]11 [/SUP]If therefore perfection were by the Levitical priesthood, (for under it the people received the law,) what further need was there that another priest should rise after the order of Melchisedec, and not be called after the order of Aaron?
[SUP]12 [/SUP]For the priesthood being changed, there is made of necessity a change also of the law.
The claim that Jesus left a last will and testament is simply falsehood and myth.
The titles Old Testament and New Testament come from Jerome's translation of the bible into Latin, which is called the Vulgate. When Jerome translated the New Testament into Latin, he used the word testamentum instead of a Latin word for covenant (pactum or foedus). By not remaining faithful to the original text, he altered its meaning by introducing the Roman concept of a last will and testament into the bible, something that was foreign to Hebrew culture. Luther, the King James translators, and others continued Jerome's perversion of scripture in their translations, and it wasn't until the latter part of the 19th century that this error began to be corrected to make translations conform to what the text actually means.
So the bible should actually be called the Old and New Covenants, because that is what the original text says, and covenants are the only way that GOD deals, and has ever dealt, with mankind.
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