What Mormons believe

[Cassian]

Nay I miss his point not. It is a subtle point based on misinterpretation. For whom were those Romans? They were Christians, specifically the early Catholic Church. Thus not pagans.

As where we can look into mormonism's history and its quite frankly laden with paganism. Everything from Smith's connection to freemasonry paganism to a lot of the rituals he put into early mormonism are very lurid and have a basis in paganism.
I mean come on the Mormon Origin Myth is that Smith claims a being pretending to be an angel named Maroni gave him the plates of Nephi and he translated them from "Old Egyptian" into English with a seer stone. So not only is Smith heavily tied to paganism, but even for the translation and compilation of his books he using pagan techniques!


This topic could not get anymore ironic.

I just dropped by to see just what other sola scripturists say about other sola scripturists. FatBoys makes a very valid claim which I see constantly on all forums where Scripture is stated at the "final authority" on faith and practice. The constant harangue against the Catholic Church where many will state that apostasy begain with Constantine. If that is true, then as FatBoys states, those that make the claim are attributing the Caonization of scripture, the Nicene Creed, the clarification of the Incarnation all to apostate individuals, pagan if you want to call them that.

Here is what I find even more contradictory is that sola scripturists never seem to allow for the teaching of others who are also sola scripturists, which begins with Luther who did write his own commentaries on the meaning of scripture.

Then the second Reformer took a step further and wrote two volume text on what constitutes Calvinism all based on scripture. Other early sola scripturists did the same thing, along with either texts or commentaries explaining what scripture means. This includes the topic under discussion. Mormonism is nothing more than another belief system developed from scripture. Jehovah Witnesses is precisely the very same thing. And you can use Eddy for Christian Science, or Russell for Jehovah Witnesses and many others, who without exception wrote texts or commentaries explaining what scripture means.

If scripture is one's sole source of faith and practice, my question is why do other sola scripturist object so much to others, just like them, who use scripture the same way they do?

 

[thecreationtutor]

I just dropped by to see just what other sola scripturists say about other sola scripturists. FatBoys makes a very valid claim which I see constantly on all forums where Scripture is stated at the "final authority" on faith and practice. The constant harangue against the Catholic Church where many will state that apostasy begain with Constantine. If that is true, then as FatBoys states, those that make the claim are attributing the Caonization of scripture, the Nicene Creed, the clarification of the Incarnation all to apostate individuals, pagan if you want to call them that.

Here is what I find even more contradictory is that sola scripturists never seem to allow for the teaching of others who are also sola scripturists, which begins with Luther who did write his own commentaries on the meaning of scripture.

Then the second Reformer took a step further and wrote two volume text on what constitutes Calvinism all based on scripture. Other early sola scripturists did the same thing, along with either texts or commentaries explaining what scripture means. This includes the topic under discussion. Mormonism is nothing more than another belief system developed from scripture. Jehovah Witnesses is precisely the very same thing. And you can use Eddy for Christian Science, or Russell for Jehovah Witnesses and many others, who without exception wrote texts or commentaries explaining what scripture means.

If scripture is one's sole source of faith and practice, my question is why do other sola scripturist object so much to others, just like them, who use scripture the same way they do?

God has elevated His word above His name. The Holy Spirit never teaches something contrary to Scripture. Sure we have wise, Godly counselors, and friends who care and share. All the promises of Scripture are yes in Jesus Christ - which is given in scripture.

The Bible is a worldview, a way of thinking - it's the way God thinks, in relation to man. Jw's Mormon's take a few scriptures out of context and make it fit their evil desires - I am not saying Christians, well meaning or not, do not do the same thing.

Renewing the mind in God's word is a daily discipline - cuts through all the crap as the Holy Spirit illuminates

 

[Cassian]

God has elevated His word above His name. The Holy Spirit never teaches something contrary to Scripture. Sure we have wise, Godly counselors, and friends who care and share. All the promises of Scripture are yes in Jesus Christ - which is given in scripture.

The Bible is a worldview, a way of thinking - it's the way God thinks, in relation to man. Jw's Mormon's take a few scriptures out of context and make it fit their evil desires - I am not saying Christians, well meaning or not, do not do the same thing.

Renewing the mind in God's word is a daily discipline - cuts through all the crap as the Holy Spirit illuminates

Which says absoluting nothing. From my vantage point it means that the Holy Spirit is illuminating to each differently.

You are essentially saying some might be better, but you have no criteria on what is better. If you did, who is setting the criteria. I don't see Calvin's Institutes as any different than the Book of Mormon, or Jehovah Witnesses' Watchtower, or Lorber's New Revelation and many other explanations of what scripture means.

 

[skipp]

Mormons consider the BOM scripture. Nobody considers Calvin's Institutes to be scripture. That's the difference between the two.

 

[Cassian]

Mormons consider the BOM scripture. Nobody considers Calvin's Institutes to be scripture. That's the difference between the two.

That is sematics. In every case it is that persons interpretation of scripture.
Lorber does the very same thing with his New Revelation. According to him it is the latest revelation of the Holy Spirit and proceeds to use scripture along with his "revelation" to establish his own tradition which is what all of these become. And everyone, even though based solely or partially upon scripture as a sourch of faith and practice, is a new man made tradition.

 

[thecreationtutor]

Which says absoluting nothing. From my vantage point it means that the Holy Spirit is illuminating to each differently.

You are essentially saying some might be better, but you have no criteria on what is better. If you did, who is setting the criteria. I don't see Calvin's Institutes as any different than the Book of Mormon, or Jehovah Witnesses' Watchtower, or Lorber's New Revelation and many other explanations of what scripture means.

Your vantage point isn't the Holy Spirit, I never said Calvin's institutes were part of Scripture

I may lean that way, but for the sake of unity in the Body Ephesians 4:1-6 I can work with a lot of believer's who don't agree

mormon's, jw's etc they don't hold to Ephesians 4:1-6 which is a list of major doctrines Christians must believe

 

[Tintin]

Which says absoluting nothing. From my vantage point it means that the Holy Spirit is illuminating to each differently.

You are essentially saying some might be better, but you have no criteria on what is better. If you did, who is setting the criteria. I don't see Calvin's Institutes as any different than the Book of Mormon, or Jehovah Witnesses' Watchtower, or Lorber's New Revelation and many other explanations of what scripture means.

Haha! What? No, Creation summed up everything very nicely. You just don't see to understand God's Truth, as it's written in the Bible (and nowhere else).

 

[Cassian]

Your vantage point isn't the Holy Spirit, I never said Calvin's institutes were part of Scripture

I may lean that way, but for the sake of unity in the Body Ephesians 4:1-6 I can work with a lot of believer's who don't agree

mormon's, jw's etc they don't hold to Ephesians 4:1-6 which is a list of major doctrines Christians must believe

Quite obviously saying something does not mean it is reality. The fact that there is such a thing as Lutheranism and Calvinism one already has two completely opposite faiths. They neither share ONE faith, nor even ONE baptism. This can be extended to every denomination that exists. The fact that there is so much division, chaos is the fact that there are many different faiths. By the time you get to the end you can also add many do not have the same Lord, either. Some may use the same word, but have opposite meanings or have ignored what scripture actually states and has meant from the begnning.

But yet the only thing they have in common is the principle of sola scriptura. Scripture alone is the only authority for faith and practice. The problem is for the last 500 years of sola scriptura, scripture obviously has no authority in and of itself.

It is quite clear that each of these individuals in developing their respective faiths put their personal opinion/interpretation as the authority over scripture and has in effect superceded the authority of the Holy Spirit. I can assure you the Holy Spirit is not the SOURCE of this mega chaotic division in Protestantism.

 

[Cassian]

Haha! What? No, Creation summed up everything very nicely. You just don't see to understand God's Truth, as it's written in the Bible (and nowhere else).

Based on the principle of sola scriptura, if I developed my own based on scirpture, then I could rightly assume that I would understand "God's Truth" according to me. Sounds very gratifying, maybe that is the panacea of man. Develop ones own way of salvation, but make sure it is based on scripture. No one can declare it wrong, since it is one's opinion which is infallible.

 

[Kerry]

Mormons believe in money and nothing else, Oh and as many wives as you want. I meant, they funded L as Vegas and the inner circle is extremely and filthy rich.

 

[Tintin]

Quite obviously saying something does not mean it is reality. The fact that there is such a thing as Lutheranism and Calvinism one already has two completely opposite faiths. They neither share ONE faith, nor even ONE baptism. This can be extended to every denomination that exists. The fact that there is so much division, chaos is the fact that there are many different faiths. By the time you get to the end you can also add many do not have the same Lord, either. Some may use the same word, but have opposite meanings or have ignored what scripture actually states and has meant from the begnning.

But yet the only thing they have in common is the principle of sola scriptura. Scripture alone is the only authority for faith and practice. The problem is for the last 500 years of sola scriptura, scripture obviously has no authority in and of itself.

It is quite clear that each of these individuals in developing their respective faiths put their personal opinion/interpretation as the authority over scripture and has in effect superceded the authority of the Holy Spirit. I can assure you the Holy Spirit is not the SOURCE of this mega chaotic division in Protestantism.

Come on, mate! That's why we have the Holy Spirit to guide us. We're not just meant to read the Bible without His help. Also, for example: Calvinism and the Lutheran denominations certainly have their differences but they believe the same core Christian doctrines. Mormonism doesn't. Mormonism is a false religion, the others are Christian denominations.

 

[Tintin]

Based on the principle of sola scriptura, if I developed my own based on scirpture, then I could rightly assume that I would understand "God's Truth" according to me. Sounds very gratifying, maybe that is the panacea of man. Develop ones own way of salvation, but make sure it is based on scripture. No one can declare it wrong, since it is one's opinion which is infallible.

In His Word, the Bible, God tells us to test what we hear and read against what God says (which is only found in the Bible). Mormonism doesn't line up with God's Word. It contradicts the Bible in many ways. Why should we believe the private revelations of a known con-man and plagarist over the one true God? There's no new revelation. The Bible, combined with the guidance of the Holy Spirit is all we need. I'm hedging my bets on God.

 

[laceylacey]

Mormon beliefs are not anymore out there than Christian...Muslim...jewish......really take a look at your holy books....there's things you believe that are on the same level as the next religion and guess what none of you have proof it really happened as out did, you just have your faith in common......your more alike than you know, try showing some tolerance and kindness, instead of basing one another

 

[newbirth]

Another analogy if you will: If I record a music CD, and you play the music CD, are you playing me? Yes. I am sitting here still alive as well, so then are you hearing only the record of me, or are you hearing me alive? I live and I do another thing even as you are listening to me alive. Now our technology has made it possible for us to recreate the very thing which God is able to do much more effectively and perfectly and He has always done it. Is not the Son, the expression of God, a record of the Father? And did the Son not do perfectly? Was there a scratch on the disc? Was there an error? Was there a skip? And the Scriptures, are these not the record of the Father, wherein is found the Spirit of the Father? Therefore are these not also the same? Is not the record of the Father an expression of the Father Himself? So then we are met with Him. And when we meet a Christian who was saved by the Word of Power, and that Christian gives you food when you are starving, was it man or God which fed you? It was God Himself that fed you! You just met God again. Now it is not in the vessel that people see the Lord, but in the character of the vessel that people meet the Lord. For if you were to dig into the vessel you would only find wires and parts. God is found within the recording device in a place wherein we cannot seek. We cannot measure God within an object, but the character revealed through an object glorifies God who is a spirit. God's fullness cannot be calculated, and yet His fullness can be contained in the smallest form. This is a testament to God's consistency and perfection. The One who created the entire universe could contain Himself within the temple of the body. And further, His character is contained within just one verse of Scripture. And His heart is contained in two words: "Jesus wept."

If I write a few words about myself here, then you have met me. And though I might die here, and the words are preserved, yet you still meet me. Therefore, how much more, knowing that God is a living God, and death has no power over the Lord, should you realize that to meet with the words of the Lord is to meet the Lord Himself? And to meet with the actions of the Lord is to meet the Lord Himself? And to consider the Lord and His character is to consider with the Lord Himself?

And this we are able to do only because of Jesus Christ.

I have no need for any other priest or pastor to be a conduit to the Lord, for the Lord has established a direct connection to me. Pastors lead the flock to the Lord, but they are not conduits for communication. And who speaks to the Lord on our behalf but the Lord Jesus Christ? Now if we are found in Him, then therefore, we may speak on others behalf as well. But when they are led to the Lord, then are we still a better route for communication?

The phone is used to establish a connection that two may talk over a great distance. But if one person chooses to walk to the other person's location, then the reception will be much clearer and the phone will not be required. Now the person who knows the location of the phone may say, "I know where the other person lives, I can show you the way."

But those who choose to stand as gatekeepers to the phone and to the way to the Lord, these that call themselves priests and yet allow no one to get through to the Lord, these same ones also do not know the way of the Lord. Therefore, they are gatekeepers of something that is not right, and if they are keeping you out, don't go in.

But the priests that show you the way to the Lord, and step out of the way and allow you to meet the Lord after they have guided you, then the same have also conferred upon you the priesthood, if the Lord will give it. Because those who meet the Lord and accept the Lord are those who are therefore gatekeepers of the Lord. But they do not shut the gate on those who seek the Lord, but they open it and give authority to the gate to those who receive it. And those who would try to enter into the gate, not to seek the Lord, but to destroy, therein lies the authority of the priests to keep the destroyers out.
So if you seek the Lord, and you are kept out, then go another way. Mormonism does not allow any to come to the Lord directly. Catholicism does not allow any to come to the Lord directly. Sabbath keepers won't allow it. Most preachers don't allow it. Most pastors do not allow it. The offices have been puffed up in tradition. The understanding of the Lord still escapes most. People still fight for greater glory in Heaven, not realizing that this is not proof of who loves God the most. For Satan also fought for greater glory in Heaven.

I understand the feeling of the confusion, but I do not condone the confusion itself. The Lord is easy to access if one is willing.

Wise words which has eluded me you have written.This is what believe but could not explain. The name of our Lord be blessed forever.

 

[Tintin]

Mormon beliefs are not anymore out there than Christian...Muslim...jewish......really take a look at your holy books....there's things you believe that are on the same level as the next religion and guess what none of you have proof it really happened as out did, you just have your faith in common......your more alike than you know, try showing some tolerance and kindness, instead of basing one another

Christianity is authenticated by history, as is Judaism (although many of them didn't recognise their Messiah). Mormonism can do no such thing and it is much more out there than the Bible could ever claim to be. If God disagrees with Himself, does that make God a liar? God is Truth. Much of what Mormonism reveals runs counter to the Holy Spirit's revelation to us throughout the Bible.

 

[TruthisPower]

Mormons believe black people are curse by God and if they repent they will turn back to white. look it up on youtube that's a JOKE so we carry this blackness down through are children ????? black people can have white children.

 

[TruthisPower]

they are from two of the same parents. God created us with multiple gens that are beautiful

 

[TruthisPower]

 

[Cassian]

Come on, mate! That's why we have the Holy Spirit to guide us. We're not just meant to read the Bible without His help. Also, for example: Calvinism and the Lutheran denominations certainly have their differences but they believe the same core Christian doctrines. Mormonism doesn't. Mormonism is a false religion, the others are Christian denominations.

First, the definition of interpretation you are using has nothing to do with the Holy Spirit. The Holy Spirit does guide all believers in understanding how to apply scriptures to our lives. This is the meaning of II Tim 3:15-16. One needs to actually know what scriptures mean before you can use it to apply it to your life in order to be saved. If you are constantly trying to decipher what it means, how can you apply it to your life? That's what dividing means, to teach. How can you teach when you don't even know what scripture means. It changes even in a single persons life, constantly changing what it means for them.

The Holy Spirit has NEVER guided any individual into doctrine. One cannot even say that regarding the Apostles, they were given it as a group. The "YOU" in John 14:26, 16:13 is directed at the disciples/Apostles. They are the foundation of the Church Christ would be establishing on earth beginning at Pentecost. The Holy Spirit gave the Gospel ONCE (Jude 3) to them who taught the early Church. The Gospel was entrusted to His Body. After all He is the Head of that Body, and the Holy Spirit dwells in that Body whose function is to preserve both the Body and the Gospel entrusted to it. II Pet 1:20 is the Holy Spirits directive that what you claim will never take place in this Messianic era - namely any revelation to individuals for private interpretation. The HOLY SPIRIT gave His Revelation once. It does not need to be given again, only preserved.

The fact that you have even two denominations who differ on the Faith ONCE given is proof it is not of the Holy Spirit. Christ promised that the Gospel would be unified as He is unified with the Father. There is no room for all the massive differences of ONE FAITH, given ONCE to the saints in the beginning.

When you say core Christian doctrines belies the vast differences between all the other to numerous denominations to count. That you say one is not christian whereas those to whom you are saying that, say otherwise in regard to yours. You could not proof one correct or false based in the method you are using to determine any doctrine.

Let's make a huge assumption. That it is the Holy Spirit guiding you. Which of the thousands would be correct? Or are all being guided by the Holy Spirit as each emphatically claims just as you have here. If not, which is correct, and what criteria can one use. Proof of a vision that you got some additional revelation? A Book uncovered mysteriously from behind a rock for the last 2000 years.

 

[Karlko]

Deut:
13 “If a prophet or a dreamer of dreams arises among you and gives you a sign or a wonder,2 and the sign or wonder that he tells you comes to pass, and if he says, ‘Let us go after other gods,’ which you have not known, ‘and let us serve them,

Mormons worship a false God, they show signs etc, but in reality it is a farce. Religious devils, the lot in reality. Deceived by Satan, devoid of the Truth. The Holy Spirit does not confirm anything apart from the Bible. ~ even if an angel teaches you anything but the Gospel, let him be accursed

The Holy Ghost does not confirm anything apart from the Bible??? Clearly the Holy Ghost was confirming truth before the canonization of the Bible. The Holy Ghost confirms the truth of all things.