What Paul taught other than romans 8:1 lol
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Nobody is saying just accept disobedience and say grace covered it. That is a straw man argument. In regards to Romans 1:5, although Paul can speak of people’s initial response of choosing to believe the gospel as an act of obedience, in which he describes it as "obeying the gospel" (Romans 10:16; 1:16), the purpose of Paul’s apostleship was not merely to bring people to conversion but also to bring about transformed lives that were obedient to God. Notice that Paul said they HAVE (already) received grace and apostleship FOR/UNTO obedience to the faith. Just as in Ephesians 2:10, Paul said that we are created in Christ Jesus FOR/UNTO good works. We are clearly saved FOR good works, NOT BY good works (Ephesians 2:8-10). Paul did not say that they did not receive grace and apostleship until they produced obedience afterwards. We have access by faith into grace.. Romans 5:2 not faith "and obedience/works." We are saved through faith in Christ first, then "unto" obedience/works.
Romans 3:24 - being justified as a gift by His grace through the redemption which is in Christ Jesus; 25 whom God displayed publicly as a propitiation in His blood through faith. This was to demonstrate His righteousness, because in the forbearance of God He passed over the sins previously committed; 26 for the demonstration, I say, of His righteousness at the present time, so that He would be just and the justifier of the one who has faith in Jesus.
Nobody is saying distort grace and remain in disobedience.
Saving faith is belief, trust, reliance in Christ for salvation. Action which follows is works and we are not saved by works. You are reading Romans 2:5-16 through the distorted lens of salvation by works.
If one reads Romans 2:6-11 in isolation from the rest of the book of Romans, one might conclude that Paul was teaching salvation by works. However, as you read and study these passages, it is imperative to keep in mind that these verses do not describe how one becomes saved, but the way the saved conduct their lives. These workss done are the result of, not the means or basis of receiving salvation. So patient continuance in well doing, seeking for glory, honor, and immortality; (vs. 7) is not at all set forth as the means of their procuring eternal life, but as a description of those to whom God does render life eternal.
Notice that ALL who receive eternal life are described as such, everyone who does good (vs. 10). Good deeds flow from a heart that is saved and evil deeds flow from a heart that is unsaved. Verse 8 - but to those who are self-seeking and do not obey the truth, but obey unrighteousness--indignation and wrath. Notice that ALL who do not receive eternal life are described as such, everyone who does evil (vs. 9). What those passages convey is that though our deeds are judged by God, it's not the good deeds themselves which are the basis or means of our salvation, but the type of deeds expose whether our heart was saved, or not. These deeds done out of faith are the fruit, not the root of our salvation. If Paul wanted to teach that we are saved by works, then he would have clearly stated that we are saved through faith and works in Ephesians 2:8 and that we are justified by faith and works in Romans 5:1 but that is clearly NOT what Paul said. Also see (Romans 4:4-6; Titus 3:5; 2 Timothy 1:9 etc..).
Who persists in disobedience? Believers or unbelievers?
The "whole picture" rests on cause and effect. Do we live obedient lives/do good works TO QUALIFY for God's grace? Or is God's grace a free gift received through faith which then consequently leads TO good works? Do we do something because of faith, or is our faith caused by something we do? Which is cause and which is effect?
You are plucking these verses out of context and are twisting the Scriptures and teaching salvation by works. Once again, notice that ALL who receive eternal life in Romans 2:10 are described as such, everyone who does good - (descriptive of believers)and notice that ALL who do not receive eternal life in Romans 2:9 are described as such, everyone who does evil - (descriptive of unbelievers).
I don't hear any believers promoting disobedience or a license to sin, but I continue to hear "works salvationists" distort passages of Scripture about obedience and twist the Scriptures to promote salvation by works.
Man is saved by grace through faith, not works (Ephesians 2:8,9). Man does not receive eternal life based on the merits of his obedience/works. Jesus made it clear what will determine our eternal fate. He drew the line in the sand very clearly. John 3:18 - He who believes in Him is not condemned; but he who does not believe is condemned already, because he has not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.
So do we receive salvation by grace through faith, not works, or de we receive salvation based on the merits of living righteous lives? Just how righteous must we be? Where do you draw the line and say that your obedience "measures up" so now the Lord will be able to save you?
Who sows to the sinful nature and reaps destruction? Believers or unbelievers? Who sows to the spirit and will reap eternal life? Believers or unbelievers?
Obedience is a manifestation of faith and disobedience is a manifestation of unbelief. You continue to confuse the root of salvation (faith) with the fruit of salvation (obedience/works).
Romans 3:24 - being justified as a gift by His grace through the redemption which is in Christ Jesus; 25 whom God displayed publicly as a propitiation in His blood through faith. This was to demonstrate His righteousness, because in the forbearance of God He passed over the sins previously committed; 26 for the demonstration, I say, of His righteousness at the present time, so that He would be just and the justifier of the one who has faith in Jesus.
Nobody is saying distort grace and remain in disobedience.
Saving faith is belief, trust, reliance in Christ for salvation. Action which follows is works and we are not saved by works. You are reading Romans 2:5-16 through the distorted lens of salvation by works.
If one reads Romans 2:6-11 in isolation from the rest of the book of Romans, one might conclude that Paul was teaching salvation by works. However, as you read and study these passages, it is imperative to keep in mind that these verses do not describe how one becomes saved, but the way the saved conduct their lives. These workss done are the result of, not the means or basis of receiving salvation. So patient continuance in well doing, seeking for glory, honor, and immortality; (vs. 7) is not at all set forth as the means of their procuring eternal life, but as a description of those to whom God does render life eternal.
Notice that ALL who receive eternal life are described as such, everyone who does good (vs. 10). Good deeds flow from a heart that is saved and evil deeds flow from a heart that is unsaved. Verse 8 - but to those who are self-seeking and do not obey the truth, but obey unrighteousness--indignation and wrath. Notice that ALL who do not receive eternal life are described as such, everyone who does evil (vs. 9). What those passages convey is that though our deeds are judged by God, it's not the good deeds themselves which are the basis or means of our salvation, but the type of deeds expose whether our heart was saved, or not. These deeds done out of faith are the fruit, not the root of our salvation. If Paul wanted to teach that we are saved by works, then he would have clearly stated that we are saved through faith and works in Ephesians 2:8 and that we are justified by faith and works in Romans 5:1 but that is clearly NOT what Paul said. Also see (Romans 4:4-6; Titus 3:5; 2 Timothy 1:9 etc..).
Who persists in disobedience? Believers or unbelievers?
The "whole picture" rests on cause and effect. Do we live obedient lives/do good works TO QUALIFY for God's grace? Or is God's grace a free gift received through faith which then consequently leads TO good works? Do we do something because of faith, or is our faith caused by something we do? Which is cause and which is effect?
You are plucking these verses out of context and are twisting the Scriptures and teaching salvation by works. Once again, notice that ALL who receive eternal life in Romans 2:10 are described as such, everyone who does good - (descriptive of believers)and notice that ALL who do not receive eternal life in Romans 2:9 are described as such, everyone who does evil - (descriptive of unbelievers).
I don't hear any believers promoting disobedience or a license to sin, but I continue to hear "works salvationists" distort passages of Scripture about obedience and twist the Scriptures to promote salvation by works.
Man is saved by grace through faith, not works (Ephesians 2:8,9). Man does not receive eternal life based on the merits of his obedience/works. Jesus made it clear what will determine our eternal fate. He drew the line in the sand very clearly. John 3:18 - He who believes in Him is not condemned; but he who does not believe is condemned already, because he has not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.
So do we receive salvation by grace through faith, not works, or de we receive salvation based on the merits of living righteous lives? Just how righteous must we be? Where do you draw the line and say that your obedience "measures up" so now the Lord will be able to save you?
Who sows to the sinful nature and reaps destruction? Believers or unbelievers? Who sows to the spirit and will reap eternal life? Believers or unbelievers?
Obedience is a manifestation of faith and disobedience is a manifestation of unbelief. You continue to confuse the root of salvation (faith) with the fruit of salvation (obedience/works).
hey post human, lol GLAD to see a person I can actually disucc something with. see like I was saying, if you pull up the whole answer I gave, you will see me saying my opinion and not teaching or presenting it as fact. that's what I meant about pulling up old comments and especially a sentence out of them. That's my opinion He was sad not because of His possessions, but because Jesus answered " if you want to be perfect, go sell your possessions and follow me." and scripture says he went away sad because he had great wealth." then Jesus goes into how hard it is for the rich to enter heaven." I think the lesson there to me is pretty clear, but that's just how I take it and wasn't taught the bible really. I was taught prayer and a few verses by my Grandmother, and mother both godly women and great examples indeed. attended v=bible studies at a young age and then began my own studies at 11 or 12. knowing what I did even having the examples I eb=nded up in a terribly wicked life for a long while. kept reading and praying for wisdom all throughout that time and began to see "do these things" you must do these things" I saw the truth that sets free which is to remain in, put into practice Jesus words. from there the knowledge opened up and the chaos of scripture finds order in me. God put me alone with His word intently most of my life. other teens were playing I was studying. didn't help at all until I saw the truth " do the word" that changed my life and set me free took away the dead man and Now I'm new. That particular passage doesn't really strike me as close to my heart or anything. I make a lot of money and have very little possessions, or bank account. money means little to me always has, that's never been an issue for me. My issues were many mannny but never money id give anyone anything from the time I began. so yeah that was just an opinion which I think is reflected in the original comment to ummm I cant remember who asked actually. But yeah, that's really not something ive considered much and would defer to you on that because it is close to your heart moreso and you've considered it.
the most common thing ive heard about why He called Him good, and jesus responded with " no one is good accept God" is that he recognized Jesus as God. I'm not sure really like I said.....
I usually stay away from opinions on things I hear and just pray daily, study daily and pray afterwords for wisdom and understanding of His word. a habit I formed arounf 17 years or so ago when I sae james 1:5, and also read of solomons prayer when God offered Him anything He wanted and Solomon asked God for wisdom to rule His people well. and then God granted Him wisdom and more wealth than anyone else would ever have.
somehow those scriptures sunk in that I should ask for wisdom and understanding of Gods word above all else. That's really what anyone should do if they want to know what Gods word says. pray before study and after, everytime God will always answer our prayers.
the most common thing ive heard about why He called Him good, and jesus responded with " no one is good accept God" is that he recognized Jesus as God. I'm not sure really like I said.....
I usually stay away from opinions on things I hear and just pray daily, study daily and pray afterwords for wisdom and understanding of His word. a habit I formed arounf 17 years or so ago when I sae james 1:5, and also read of solomons prayer when God offered Him anything He wanted and Solomon asked God for wisdom to rule His people well. and then God granted Him wisdom and more wealth than anyone else would ever have.
somehow those scriptures sunk in that I should ask for wisdom and understanding of Gods word above all else. That's really what anyone should do if they want to know what Gods word says. pray before study and after, everytime God will always answer our prayers.
Nobody is saying just accept disobedience and say grace covered it. That is a straw man argument. In regards to Romans 1:5, although Paul can speak of people’s initial response of choosing to believe the gospel as an act of obedience, in which he describes it as "obeying the gospel" (Romans 10:16; 1:16), the purpose of Paul’s apostleship was not merely to bring people to conversion but also to bring about transformed lives that were obedient to God. Notice that Paul said they HAVE (already) received grace and apostleship FOR/UNTO obedience to the faith. Just as in Ephesians 2:10, Paul said that we are created in Christ Jesus FOR/UNTO good works. We are clearly saved FOR good works, NOT BY good works (Ephesians 2:8-10). Paul did not say that they did not receive grace and apostleship until they produced obedience afterwards. We have access by faith into grace.. Romans 5:2 not faith "and obedience/works." We are saved through faith in Christ first, then "unto" obedience/works.
Romans 3:24 - being justified as a gift by His grace through the redemption which is in Christ Jesus; 25 whom God displayed publicly as a propitiation in His blood through faith. This was to demonstrate His righteousness, because in the forbearance of God He passed over the sins previously committed; 26 for the demonstration, I say, of His righteousness at the present time, so that He would be just and the justifier of the one who has faith in Jesus.
Nobody is saying distort grace and remain in disobedience.
Saving faith is belief, trust, reliance in Christ for salvation. Action which follows is works and we are not saved by works. You are reading Romans 2:5-16 through the distorted lens of salvation by works.
If one reads Romans 2:6-11 in isolation from the rest of the book of Romans, one might conclude that Paul was teaching salvation by works. However, as you read and study these passages, it is imperative to keep in mind that these verses do not describe how one becomes saved, but the way the saved conduct their lives. These workss done are the result of, not the means or basis of receiving salvation. So patient continuance in well doing, seeking for glory, honor, and immortality; (vs. 7) is not at all set forth as the means of their procuring eternal life, but as a description of those to whom God does render life eternal.
Notice that ALL who receive eternal life are described as such, everyone who does good (vs. 10). Good deeds flow from a heart that is saved and evil deeds flow from a heart that is unsaved. Verse 8 - but to those who are self-seeking and do not obey the truth, but obey unrighteousness--indignation and wrath. Notice that ALL who do not receive eternal life are described as such, everyone who does evil (vs. 9). What those passages convey is that though our deeds are judged by God, it's not the good deeds themselves which are the basis or means of our salvation, but the type of deeds expose whether our heart was saved, or not. These deeds done out of faith are the fruit, not the root of our salvation. If Paul wanted to teach that we are saved by works, then he would have clearly stated that we are saved through faith and works in Ephesians 2:8 and that we are justified by faith and works in Romans 5:1 but that is clearly NOT what Paul said. Also see (Romans 4:4-6; Titus 3:5; 2 Timothy 1:9 etc..).
Who persists in disobedience? Believers or unbelievers?
The "whole picture" rests on cause and effect. Do we live obedient lives/do good works TO QUALIFY for God's grace? Or is God's grace a free gift received through faith which then consequently leads TO good works? Do we do something because of faith, or is our faith caused by something we do? Which is cause and which is effect?
You are plucking these verses out of context and are twisting the Scriptures and teaching salvation by works. Once again, notice that ALL who receive eternal life in Romans 2:10 are described as such, everyone who does good - (descriptive of believers)and notice that ALL who do not receive eternal life in Romans 2:9 are described as such, everyone who does evil - (descriptive of unbelievers).
I don't hear any believers promoting disobedience or a license to sin, but I continue to hear "works salvationists" distort passages of Scripture about obedience and twist the Scriptures to promote salvation by works.
Man is saved by grace through faith, not works (Ephesians 2:8,9). Man does not receive eternal life based on the merits of his obedience/works. Jesus made it clear what will determine our eternal fate. He drew the line in the sand very clearly. John 3:18 - He who believes in Him is not condemned; but he who does not believe is condemned already, because he has not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.
So do we receive salvation by grace through faith, not works, or de we receive salvation based on the merits of living righteous lives? Just how righteous must we be? Where do you draw the line and say that your obedience "measures up" so now the Lord will be able to save you?
Who sows to the sinful nature and reaps destruction? Believers or unbelievers? Who sows to the spirit and will reap eternal life? Believers or unbelievers?
Obedience is a manifestation of faith and disobedience is a manifestation of unbelief. You continue to confuse the root of salvation (faith) with the fruit of salvation (obedience/works).
Romans 3:24 - being justified as a gift by His grace through the redemption which is in Christ Jesus; 25 whom God displayed publicly as a propitiation in His blood through faith. This was to demonstrate His righteousness, because in the forbearance of God He passed over the sins previously committed; 26 for the demonstration, I say, of His righteousness at the present time, so that He would be just and the justifier of the one who has faith in Jesus.
Nobody is saying distort grace and remain in disobedience.
Saving faith is belief, trust, reliance in Christ for salvation. Action which follows is works and we are not saved by works. You are reading Romans 2:5-16 through the distorted lens of salvation by works.
If one reads Romans 2:6-11 in isolation from the rest of the book of Romans, one might conclude that Paul was teaching salvation by works. However, as you read and study these passages, it is imperative to keep in mind that these verses do not describe how one becomes saved, but the way the saved conduct their lives. These workss done are the result of, not the means or basis of receiving salvation. So patient continuance in well doing, seeking for glory, honor, and immortality; (vs. 7) is not at all set forth as the means of their procuring eternal life, but as a description of those to whom God does render life eternal.
Notice that ALL who receive eternal life are described as such, everyone who does good (vs. 10). Good deeds flow from a heart that is saved and evil deeds flow from a heart that is unsaved. Verse 8 - but to those who are self-seeking and do not obey the truth, but obey unrighteousness--indignation and wrath. Notice that ALL who do not receive eternal life are described as such, everyone who does evil (vs. 9). What those passages convey is that though our deeds are judged by God, it's not the good deeds themselves which are the basis or means of our salvation, but the type of deeds expose whether our heart was saved, or not. These deeds done out of faith are the fruit, not the root of our salvation. If Paul wanted to teach that we are saved by works, then he would have clearly stated that we are saved through faith and works in Ephesians 2:8 and that we are justified by faith and works in Romans 5:1 but that is clearly NOT what Paul said. Also see (Romans 4:4-6; Titus 3:5; 2 Timothy 1:9 etc..).
Who persists in disobedience? Believers or unbelievers?
The "whole picture" rests on cause and effect. Do we live obedient lives/do good works TO QUALIFY for God's grace? Or is God's grace a free gift received through faith which then consequently leads TO good works? Do we do something because of faith, or is our faith caused by something we do? Which is cause and which is effect?
You are plucking these verses out of context and are twisting the Scriptures and teaching salvation by works. Once again, notice that ALL who receive eternal life in Romans 2:10 are described as such, everyone who does good - (descriptive of believers)and notice that ALL who do not receive eternal life in Romans 2:9 are described as such, everyone who does evil - (descriptive of unbelievers).
I don't hear any believers promoting disobedience or a license to sin, but I continue to hear "works salvationists" distort passages of Scripture about obedience and twist the Scriptures to promote salvation by works.
Man is saved by grace through faith, not works (Ephesians 2:8,9). Man does not receive eternal life based on the merits of his obedience/works. Jesus made it clear what will determine our eternal fate. He drew the line in the sand very clearly. John 3:18 - He who believes in Him is not condemned; but he who does not believe is condemned already, because he has not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.
So do we receive salvation by grace through faith, not works, or de we receive salvation based on the merits of living righteous lives? Just how righteous must we be? Where do you draw the line and say that your obedience "measures up" so now the Lord will be able to save you?
Who sows to the sinful nature and reaps destruction? Believers or unbelievers? Who sows to the spirit and will reap eternal life? Believers or unbelievers?
Obedience is a manifestation of faith and disobedience is a manifestation of unbelief. You continue to confuse the root of salvation (faith) with the fruit of salvation (obedience/works).
naw bud I'm not confused in any way lol I'm just not willing to disregard the mass amounts of scripture because of a doctrine that is not right. I'm good clear minded understand perfectly where obedience comes from. as I have said again and again. the difference is and what shows clearly. is I don't need to come against obedience, I live it as were are called to do. and yeah the gog definitely avoids and omits anything even paul says that doesn't go with the popular doctrines. but again, nothing to be had between us ill say what I said to bruce, theres no benefit in discussing this with you. not one single person out of your group has addressed ANYTHING I presented from paul. Not one person has presented even One scripture saying salvation cant be lost be how we Live. I don't bother with comments like this one all you guys do is avoid what is said, twist it and through silly remarks in to me its nonsense. but listen one more time
How do we omit this last statement of Jesus regarding our actions and the kingdom ?
revelation 22 :12-16 "“Look, I am coming soon! My reward is with me, and I will give to each person according to what they have done. I am the Alpha and the Omega, the First and the Last, the Beginning and the End.
“Blessed are those who wash their robes, that they may have the right to the tree of life and may go through the gates into the city. Outside are the dogs, those who practice magic arts, the sexually immoral, the murderers, the idolaters and everyone who loves and practices falsehood.
“I, Jesus, have sent my angel to give you this testimony for the churches. I am the Root and the Offspring of David, and the bright Morning Star.”
the several scriptures clear and in their entirety ive given in this thread. are consistant. all men will be judged according to their own actions. what they do, or do not do. consistant, repetitive. from Jesus gospel, the only true Gospel, Jesus words. to pauls words who the gog claim is the authority saying the same thing, all men judged by what they do, jew or gentile, under law or apart from it. same thing. to peter, to john. back all the way to revelation the last few scriptures of Jesus own words again. Judgement according to what we do. our actions determine our judgement, not saying I believe, but believing enough to DO.
I am not ever willing to omit Jesus to serve a strange gospel, The words of Jesus are the only gospel. they are salvation. if you all trust in Him trust in His commands that HE SAYS TO DO. trust that you died and are new. ALL BECAUSE OF GRACE. grace doesn't cover disobedience. sorry. and that is exactly what this doctrine claims. that no matter what your saved, regardless of your actions. that's the gog. just say your righteous and your righteous . a few things it does infact omit. it says if you confess your sin, your doing wrong, false. It says over half of Jesus words do not apply to Christians, false. it says paul somehow has authority over Jesus words, false. it says regardless if you repent of sin, your saved, false. it says you cant sin, even if you are sinning because your born of God already, false. sin is sin. the gospel of Grace is just false. Our actions will determine our fate. eternal life or eternal punishment. there is mercy and Grace in the teachings of Jesus CONDITIONAL upon obedience to HIS words. if you forgive others, God will forgive you. mercy. conditional upon obeying what Jesus taught, not the gog, there is no gospel of Grace. there is the Gospel of Jesus Christ, Jesus Christ brought both Grace and also TRUTH.
john 1 :17 "For the law was given through Moses; grace and truth came through Jesus Christ." the gospel of Grace refuses to even use the name Jesus lol. if you push them its " the gospel of the grace of Christ" Jesus Christ Himself His words are the words of the Gospel. paul revealed the power of the atonement. the death and resurrection. that's why it is never called the gospel of romans, or ephesians or colossians. the old testament pointed to the gospel of Jesus Christ. all the apostles taught the gospel of Jesus Christ.
the gog is just a false doctrine no more, no less in 50 years there will be some other movement that fails just like this one will because its not of God. the one from God is found in the 4 accounts of the Gospel of Jesus Christ. matthew, mark, luke and John. that is the onlt Gospel of God the Father. the only gospel available for the salvation of man. the only name available Jesus. the Christ of God. Gods only Son, the way, the truth, the Life. the beginning and end, Jesus. Grace is only what he brought with Him, along WITH THE TRUTH. Which is found in His words, His words are "spirit and Life"{ the only life and spirit available . and Jesus gospel is all about doing what is right and is summed up simply. " Love the Lord your God with all your heart, mind, soul and strength, and Love your fellow man as you Love yourself" what kind of Love??? the Love Jesus teaches wich is full of Grace to others. to be clear ( though as you have you will twist what ivwe said here) THIS IS ALL BECAUSE OF GODS GRACE TO MAKE US DEAD TO SIN, AND FULLY ABLE TO LIVE AGAIN IN RIGHTEOUSNESS PROVIDED BY JESUS CHRIST.'
this in NO WAY erases a believers responsibility to live right, and the one who chooses to live other than required, should not think they are already saved from wrath. ive shown you with scripture many times in this one thread mostly from paul by design of the op. that wrath will come because of how we act, what we DO. grace made us righteous, to follow anything else will lead away from the gift. actions determine destiny, Gods grace changed us and made us able, the choice is now just like adam. do the right thing Live, do the wrong thing die.
remembering the Grace that is taught By Jesus. forgiveness readily available to the FORGIVING. that's one simple teaching that provides all the forgiveness a person needs. without distorting Gods grace. that's grace Jesus died made us new and taught us the TRUTH. that's grace.
its all one concept really gotta take paul as a whole. His points are enormous and he really drives them home. notice 6 how he says you died, you died, you died... then he gives another example of how a spouse dies and is no longer bound to the marriage. same point different example. its not that we need to actually die, its that we need to understand and simply accept it as truth. Jesus died for us, by faith we died with Him. in the same way we were raised with him. if that word is just accepoted as the truth, the power of atonement starts its work, then its just about Jesus and following where He leads, holding to the no condemnation as were raised through Jesus words. paul is hard to follow, but when He is grasped wow there is some amazing power that happens through accepting the knowledge God gave Him. its death to sin, freedom from bonds that hels us down our whole lives in that power, through faith in it, those things lose their grasp and the appeal just fades, then through Jesus and taking His words in and DOING them as he says ....its Gravy were just bein born anew as free and living Children of the eternal God and Father of Our Lord Jesus Christ, His only Son, the only King of our Kingdom. His power keeps us on the water as we keep fixed on Him.
If this place was more reasonable id be willing to participate in a study of romans so that people including myself, could see more by coming together. I have a good understanding, yet I'm confident where 2 or three come together in a true manner of peace and edification not trying to preach or teach a doctrine, but just study and accept what is there, I could learn much more from romans. its depth is astounding indeed
I see no benefit in discussing this with you when you refuse to answer my questions.
That statement is the epitome of irony.
Jesus said My reward is with me, and I will give to each person according to what they have done. In 1 Corinthians 3:13, we read - each one's work will become clear; for the Day will declare it, because it will be revealed by fire; and the fire will test each one's work, of what sort it is. 14 If anyone's work which he has built on it endures, he will receive a reward. 15 If anyone's work is burned, he will suffer loss; (of reward) BUT he himself will be saved, yet so as through fire.
Don't confuse "reward" with "the gift of eternal life."
Descriptive of believers.
Descriptive of unbelievers.
You trust in what YOU DO and not in what HE DID. Your gospel of "works righteousness" is a "different" gospel that is not the gospel of Christ, which is the power of God unto salvation to everyone that BELIEVES.. (Romans 1:16).
That statement is the epitome of irony.
Jesus said My reward is with me, and I will give to each person according to what they have done. In 1 Corinthians 3:13, we read - each one's work will become clear; for the Day will declare it, because it will be revealed by fire; and the fire will test each one's work, of what sort it is. 14 If anyone's work which he has built on it endures, he will receive a reward. 15 If anyone's work is burned, he will suffer loss; (of reward) BUT he himself will be saved, yet so as through fire.
Don't confuse "reward" with "the gift of eternal life."
Descriptive of believers.
Descriptive of unbelievers.
You trust in what YOU DO and not in what HE DID. Your gospel of "works righteousness" is a "different" gospel that is not the gospel of Christ, which is the power of God unto salvation to everyone that BELIEVES.. (Romans 1:16).
yes that's very true just a few chapters go deep deep. lets do that, maybe try to get a message a day in from each of us and really take time to consider I believe fully that when brothers come together for the purpose of understanding, it pleases God and He always blesses it done in the proper spirit in seek of knowing Him better. I'm willing also
I see no benefit in discussing this with you when you refuse to answer my questions.
That statement is the epitome of irony.
Jesus said My reward is with me, and I will give to each person according to what they have done. In 1 Corinthians 3:13, we read - each one's work will become clear; for the Day will declare it, because it will be revealed by fire; and the fire will test each one's work, of what sort it is. 14 If anyone's work which he has built on it endures, he will receive a reward. 15 If anyone's work is burned, he will suffer loss; (of reward) BUT he himself will be saved, yet so as through fire.
Don't confuse "reward" with "the gift of eternal life."
Descriptive of believers.
Descriptive of unbelievers.
You trust in what YOU DO and not in what HE DID. Your gospel of "works righteousness" is a "different" gospel that is not the gospel of Christ, which is the power of God unto salvation to everyone that BELIEVES.. (Romans 1:16).
That statement is the epitome of irony.
Jesus said My reward is with me, and I will give to each person according to what they have done. In 1 Corinthians 3:13, we read - each one's work will become clear; for the Day will declare it, because it will be revealed by fire; and the fire will test each one's work, of what sort it is. 14 If anyone's work which he has built on it endures, he will receive a reward. 15 If anyone's work is burned, he will suffer loss; (of reward) BUT he himself will be saved, yet so as through fire.
Don't confuse "reward" with "the gift of eternal life."
Descriptive of believers.
Descriptive of unbelievers.
You trust in what YOU DO and not in what HE DID. Your gospel of "works righteousness" is a "different" gospel that is not the gospel of Christ, which is the power of God unto salvation to everyone that BELIEVES.. (Romans 1:16).
lol I'm done with the debate, be at peace and hopefully you find deeper truth. bless you
hey skinski7, Ive actually read the pearl of great price years ago, found a lot of good word in there. I will take a look at the link thanks and I appreciate it. honestly anything good I do or say is only because God put it there, and also gave me a good solid will to never compromise what the spirit of God has taught me through asking, seeking and knocking daily. lol peeps often dislike what the doctrines don't accept, to me its sad because I know its good people who believe in God and accept Jesus, but they heard the whisper of the enemy asking " did God really say that?...surely you will not die"
sometimes I come off to folks as not caring about the person, its truly the doctrines of ommital of Jesus Truth that I'm set against, Love isn't always the popular thing that wins friends, but that's a lesson I learned years back when God said " you must DO the word" Changed me forever and opened my eyes thanks be to God through the Lord Jesus Christ. thanks for the kind word and the link say hello anytime in pm or on any thread, God bless you in all things Jesus Christ
Hey post human, was wondering have you ever went back and looked at the story of Abraham in regards to pauls account, and also james account of faith? I found it revealing and really reconciled what james and paul were both saying about the accrediting of righteousness, and faith without works. just a thought on this post
exactly the issue again. "In Christ" is the Key phrase in pauls writings. The spirit living in us if it be living in us, gives Life to the mortal Body, the Life of the spirit. The spirit is Lord of the flesh, whether the holy spirit, or the spirit of sin. The walk is produced by the spirit we follow.
sure. good scripture. yet I myself have repeatedly said I'm no teacher of doctrine. Just pointing out that paul didn't teach Grace grace alone. He also taught repentance, obedience and that wrath is coming for those who don't obey the Lords commands.
Romans 2:5-16 " but because of your stubbornness and unrepentant heart, you are storing up wrath for yourself on the day of Gods wrath, when His righteous judgements will be revealed. God will give to each person ACCORDING TO WHAT HE HAS DONE. to thoses who by PERSISTANCE IN DOING GOOD SEEK GLORY AND HONOR and immortality, HE WILL GIVE ETERNAL LIFE. BUT those who are self seeking and who reject the truth and follow evil, THERE WILL BE WRATH AND ANGER. there WILL BE trouble and distress for every human being who does evil : first for the Jew, then the gentile. but GLORY HONOR AND PEACE for everyone who DOES GOOD; first the jew, then the gentile. for God does not show favoritism.
He goes on to say those under law, and also those apart from law v 16 " this will take place on the day when God will judge mens secrets through Jesus Christ, as my gospel declares. "
when put together with ephesians 4-5. especially 5:3-6 " but among you there must not be a hint of sexual immorality, or of any kind of impurity, or of greed...nor should there be follish talk or coarse joking, but rather thanksgiving v 5 for this you can be SURE no immoral, impure or greedy person- such a man is an idolater- has any inheritance in the Kingdom of God and of Christ. let no one deceive you with empty words for BECAUSE OF SUCH THINGS THE WRATH OF GOD comes on those who are DISOBEDIENT....."
also galatians 5 :19-21 "...v 21 I warn you as I did before, that those who live like this will not inherit the kingdom of God."
just a few examples there are plenty more in this thread.
Listen ember, I understand you guys, I see your point. I took time to listen to joseph prince on my last trip. I see the doctrine of grace only. while all things are by grace, not in dispute, Grace is not being taught as the bible teaches it in truth. I know the idea all positivity just tell someone " who they are in Christ" and the spirit will make them obedient children. stay positive ect. I get the idea and realize the difference in the doctrine, and what I hold to in Jesus words, in pauls words, in johns words, in peters words, throughout the nt. my issue with the thinking of just be positive and ignore any warning that's there is that it requires ommital of Gods design for His word.
His word is designed with the warnings about how we live, about the coming punishment, the coming wrath of God upon the disobedient, even those who claim to be in Christ ( and that is decided by Jesus who they are not saying anyone isn't) biut my clear point here is that its also Gods word. there are things that produce Godly fear that help to keep a person on the path, those aren't supposed to be ignored they are part of growth and development. useful for correction and guidance and to turn us against sin and its destructive power to our souls. that's my issue, ommital by certain doctrines, and also the misteaching of what grace is and all that it has done beyond forgiveness and justification, so much more. the misteaching about confessing sin when it is commited by a believer, so that the person can be forgiven and restored that easily. The unconditional forgiveness taught, when Jesus says plainly forgive and you will be forgiven, more than once speaking an entire parable about forgiveness and unforgiveness and summing it up " this is how your heavenly father will treat each of you unless you forgive your brother from the heart." my issue with the doctrine of grace only, is that it omits so much of Jesus words, has to claim about half of them don't apply " the before the cross" theory when after the cross Jesus said clearly " go forth and teach all nations to obey what I have commanded you" you know, to me that's just really clear, and makes all of His words valid all that He taught valid to all people.
I'm no teacher, have said that for months any time its insinuated, truthfully I have no idea what I am, other than a follower of Jesus with all my heart. I don't wish to argue with yall folk. or scripture fight back and forth or anything. the real thing to me is all of this is relevant. if a person is teaching that paul is the authority on scripture ( which I do not believe) bit nevertheless, Paul also taught obedience, repentance, He taught of wrath coming for the disobedient. remember he wrote these letters to the church, so when hes writing these things it is to the believers. just a fella who thinks Gods word is all relevant. never one time have I said someones not "saved" I think its silly to try to determine another persons salvation, Jesus is the one for that and He alone.
its all by Grace, obedience by Grace, blessing by obedience from Grace, through faith ect....but Grace made us new and able to love and practice His word and doing so is not trying to be saved by works, its just living out what Grace provided for, which is obedience to the Gospel of Jesus Christ, life and spirit to all who do so.