What Paul taught other than romans 8:1 lol

[Grace777x70]

this kind of response is why I pretty much ignore your input anymore. you are stuck deeply in a false doctrine that has no answers to anything. you claim pauls authority just like jp , yet only part of pauls teaching applies because of the doctrines fallacy. I pray for you daily that your eyes will open friend. But until that day I cant partner with you, the doctrine you try so hard to preach is death for those who will buy into it, ill have no part in it. that's my decision on this matter, been trying to get through to you for months, for the sake of peace I'm just gonna get back to avoiding the nonsense of your answers.

Paul wrote what He wrote, to keep taking things out of context will never help. please get out of the princism and look at the whole of pauls message. see the obedience, see the truth of whats there, or continue with your own brand of salvation I know I cant reach you, I pray someone else will. take care Bruce, God Loves you

We are just as dependent on the Holy Spirit to reveal Jesus and all that He has already done for us in the scriptures as Mary was dependent on the Holy Spirit to conceive Jesus in her womb.

It's ok..I understand..I believe I will stick with having compete dependence on what Jesus has done for me.

It bears witness with my spirit and I was taught it by the Lord before I even heard of JP or any others that teach now about the wonderful grace of Christ. They just confirmed what the Lord showed me.

......no harm done....go in peace. I do covet your prayers for me in the spirit. Thank you. I too have been praying for you and I love your heart for the Lord! Bless you....

 

[Grace777x70]

We are just as dependent on the Holy Spirit to reveal Jesus and all that He has already done for us in the scriptures as Mary was dependent on the Holy Spirit to conceive Jesus in her womb.

It's ok..I understand..I believe I will stick with having compete dependence on what Jesus has done for me.

It bears witness with my spirit and I was taught it by the Lord before I even heard of JP or any others that teach now about the wonderful grace of Christ. They just confirmed what the Lord showed me.

......no harm done....go in peace. I do covet your prayers for me in the spirit. Thank you. I too have been praying for you and I love your heart for the Lord! Bless you....

Opps..I didn't mention Paul or one of his scriptures in this post..sorry to the OP.

 

[Ahwatukee]

Good day Angela,

Paul wrote in Romans 7 about sinful flesh and our spirit. But in no way did he divide them up.

"For the word of God is living and active, sharper than any two-edged sword, piercing to the division of soul and of spirit, of joints and of marrow, and discerning the thoughts and intentions of the heart.

And never that our spirit is separate from our flesh,

"And they laughed at him, knowing that she was dead. But taking her by the hand he called, saying, “Child, arise.” And her spirit returned, and she got up at once."

As you can see from the scripture above, when Jesus took Jairus' daughter by the hand her spirit returned to her body. The following scripture demonstrates that body soul and spirit are each separate parts that make up a human being:



The body is a container where the soul and spirit reside. At the time of the resurrection, the spirit/soul of the believer who dies in Christ will be reunited with that resurrected body.

 

[prodigal]

//////////////

 

[Grace777x70]

Paul ( see..I'm learning.. ) also shows the difference between the flesh and the inner man in Christ. Sometimes terms and their meanings can throw us off in explaining things out. Here is Paul talking about things in Romans 7.

Romans 7:17-23 (NASB)
[SUP]17[/SUP] So now, no longer am I ( the new man ) the one doing it, but sin which dwells in me (in my body which has the flesh with the law of sin in it ).

[SUP]18[/SUP] For I know that nothing good dwells in me (my body which has the flesh in it ), that is, in my flesh; for the willing is present in me ( in my new man ), but the doing of the good is not.

Romans 7:20-23 (NASB)
[SUP]20[/SUP] But if I am doing the very thing I ( new man ) do not want, I ( new man ) am no longer the one doing it, but sin which dwells in me ( in the flesh).

[SUP]21[/SUP] I find then the principle that evil is present in me (new man ), the one who wants to do good.

[SUP]22[/SUP] For I joyfully concur with the law of God in the inner man, (new man),

[SUP]23[/SUP] but I see a different law in the members of my body, waging war against the law of my mind and making me a prisoner of the law of sin which is in my members.

italics = my words

Then Romans chapter 8 comes in and shows us how to walk according to the Spirit and not the flesh to put to death the deeds of the body ( flesh in the body ). Rom 8:13

Galatians 5:16 (NASB)
[SUP]16 [/SUP]But I say, walk by the Spirit, and you will not carry out the desire of the flesh.


We are not fighting a civil war within ourselves ( the flesh and the sin in our body of flesh do not belong to our new nature which is in Christ. ). Jesus said " A house divided will not stand."

As long as we are on this earth and in this body we will have to contend with the world, the flesh and the devil. The good news is that our Lord Jesus Christ has defeated all 3 of them!

We are still responsible for the deeds we do in our bodies.

As we grow in the grace and knowledge of Jesus....we manifest outwardly in our behavior who we already are in our new man in Christ.

 

[followjesus]

IMO 1 John clearly refutes several gnostic errors (or proto-gnostic, as you call it).

btw, nice post. Glad to see that someone else also sees it.

sorry to seem dumb here hrftd, but in simple terms what is gnostic?

 

[followjesus]

We are just as dependent on the Holy Spirit to reveal Jesus and all that He has already done for us in the scriptures as Mary was dependent on the Holy Spirit to conceive Jesus in her womb.

It's ok..I understand..I believe I will stick with having compete dependence on what Jesus has done for me.

It bears witness with my spirit and I was taught it by the Lord before I even heard of JP or any others that teach now about the wonderful grace of Christ. They just confirmed what the Lord showed me.

......no harm done....go in peace. I do covet your prayers for me in the spirit. Thank you. I too have been praying for you and I love your heart for the Lord! Bless you....

good stuff thank you for understanding. peace and Grace also to you. and I'm glad you are depending on Jesus, that's the only salvation available

 

[John146]

probly should check your hearing. Its about obeyoing Jesus because He died to give us the means to do so. to CHOOSE life or death. before Him we had no choice we were already dead. Grace Gave us His spirit by Grace in order that we now are able to choose to obey. so yeah, some towns give free hearing tests. there are a thousand ways to avoid obedience. But its scripture. so really, its more about Gods way of salvation which is what matters. cant serve sin and claim salvation in Christ. " do you not know that when you offer yourselves as slaves, you are slaves to the one you obey? whether slaves to opbedience leading to righteousness, or sin which leads to death?" its not about what we say or think, its about faith. the kind that moves and acts. its about the choice to meet Gods will or follow the other path. He has made it readily available. God is not ever going to force anyone to Choose Him......Free will belongs to mankind

You're taking us back to OT times in following the law, instead the law has changed to other instructions to obey to keep your salvation. Same difference.

 

[followjesus]

Opps..I didn't mention Paul or one of his scriptures in this post..sorry to the OP.

you are welcome to post as you wish, as I said earlier, post from genesis if you wish.

 

[HeRoseFromTheDead]

Good day Angela,

"For the word of God is living and active, sharper than any two-edged sword, piercing to the division of soul and of spirit, of joints and of marrow, and discerning the thoughts and intentions of the heart.

"And they laughed at him, knowing that she was dead. But taking her by the hand he called, saying, “Child, arise.” And her spirit returned, and she got up at once."

As you can see from the scripture above, when Jesus took Jairus' daughter by the hand her spirit returned to her body. The following scripture demonstrates that body soul and spirit are each separate parts that make up a human being:

The body is a container where the soul and spirit reside. At the time of the resurrection, the spirit/soul of the believer who dies in Christ will be reunited with that resurrected body.

Angela was referring to the conceptual separation made in pagan dualism that the material realm was evil and the spiritual realm was good. No such concept existed in the biblical world until the gnostics arrived. They essentially syncretized pagan dualism with Christianity.

 

[followjesus]

Thank you...I like what you said at the end:
Time to wake up and shine thanking GOD....with our lives.....as well as with our words.

Amen!

Just quoting what the scriptures say brother. its all there and available to anyone who searches and thirsts for the righteousness of God. freely given

 

[seed_time_harvest]

okay so what about a person whop is lying, commiting adultery, lusting, serving greed and money, refusing to help the poor ect. if they are doing these things and saying I'm a new creation. is that person sinning? that's my question to you. Is the adulterer who is saying I'm a new creation I believe in Jesus finished work, is that person safe even though they continue to cheat on their wife?

pretty simple question

Those who are born of GOD cannot sin.

A person needs to understand what born of GOD means.

GOD Is a Spirit and must be worshiped In spirit and In TRUTH.

Paul said,by the mercies of GOD we should present our bodies a living sacrifice.

We are created new In the spirit born of GOD and thats the part GOD Is looking at.

We are GODs workmanship created In CHRIST unto good works which GOD had before,ordained that we should walk In them.

The cart does not come before the horse.

The horse will be first.

 

[followjesus]

Yes, for apart from HIM...there is nothing we can do...
It is only in HIM and the TRUTH that we must REMAIN in HIM that we can do all things...by HIM who strengthens us.

I believe the issue with disobeying is when we forget that "when we are weak, than we are strong...and that HIS beauty and power is made perfect (and evident) in our weakness.

I guess what I mean to say is sometimes our flesh does get in the way and we want to actively "do" but there are times when what we do does not reflect the TRUE and HOLY RIGHTEOUSNESS of GOD...and we have to be still, trusting in HIM, knowing that HE is GOD...and that it won't be and shouldn't be by (our own) power or might, but should be and will be, by HIS SPIRIT.

amen its all in Him, in all of Him. yet His spirit will indeed crucify and leave in the tomb that old nature so that its strength becomes nothing, of no effect Just as Jesus walked in righteousness, so the same is available in us who are In Him. Once Jesus took His stand in the desert, He didn't then compromise or struggle against the defeated enemy. He simply lived for Gods will, Lived to obey God. that's the point, obedience is our strength. I never have or will deny the grace that Broiught Jesus, or that apart from Him there is anything. My position is that Jesus Himself calls us to honor Him with our lives completely, to Love Him even above our own children as did Abraham. When a bel;iever makes this commitment, bonds fall away shields raise up and a steady supply fills the heart anmd as long as we follow the streams will flow. The risen man in Christ has died to the old things and lives to the new, a heart that thrives and is blessed by every step of obedience. The new will embrace the fear ( reverence) of God. to fear God is wise, He is all powerful and His wrath is beyond standing against. He speaks and upturns worlds. He Loves us indeed, and obedience perfects Love and casts fear because if we are living as He says, we know His word is a blessing. yet always and forever a true fear ( not as the world defines) is present with the one close to His Love. When it comes down to it, God is to be reverenced always, we should be very afraid of His wrath that is an attribute as well as Love. His peomises also include a day of great destruction of all who cause sin all who partake of evil. as bad as it sounds to the ears of man, it is no less true. all salvation by His spirit, all wrath and destruction by that same spirit.

 

[HeRoseFromTheDead]

sorry to seem dumb here hrftd, but in simple terms what is gnostic?

Essentially, salvation by knowing (gnosis) the true divine self. Gnostics had a dualistic world view that matter was evil and spirit was good. They believed that the old testament god (demiurge) enslaved mankind with law which kept them bound to the material world by preventing them from seeing who they really were, i.e., entrapped sparks of divine life. Persons became saved when they were awakened through the knowledge of who they really were. Salvation was a process of eschewing any entrapment of law (which only had relevance to the material world) and maintaining this awareness. I could go on, but that's basically it.

 

[Scriptureplz]

What do you call this? I know what I call it.

I call it the truth from the Word and would give you scripture again but you either never read it or don't believe it.

 

[John146]

Notice the wording the Holy Spirit uses toward the believers at Corinth. The wording is people not acts:

9 Know ye not that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God? Be not deceived: neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor abusers of themselves with mankind,

10 Nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners, shall inherit the kingdom of God.

11 And such were some of you: but ye are washed, but ye are sanctified, but ye are justified in the name of the Lord Jesus, and by the Spirit of our God.

Some of those Corinthians used to be identified as thieves and drunkards and adulterers. But now they are considered to be something different. The washed, sanctified, and justified believer cannot be an idolator, or a liar, or a thief. Their position is "in Christ," they are a Christian. A Christian cannot be a liar. A Christian cannot be a fornicator. A Christian is a Christian. Notice now the warning to the Christian not to follow the works of the flesh...works. What's listed is works, acts not people.

16 This I say then, Walk in the Spirit, and ye shall not fulfil the lust of the flesh.

17 For the flesh lusteth against the Spirit, and the Spirit against the flesh: and these are contrary the one to the other: so that ye cannot do the things that ye would.

18 But if ye be led of the Spirit, ye are not under the law.

19 No the works of the flesh are manifest, which are these; Adultery, fornication, uncleanness, lasciviousness,

20 Idolatry, witchcraft, hatred, variance, emulations, wrath, strife, seditions, heresies,

21 Envyings, murders, drunkenness, revellings, and such like: of the which I tell you before, as I have also told you in time past, that they which do such things shall not inherit the kingdom of God.

A Christian can get caught up walking after the flesh and lie or commit adultery, but that doesn't make the believer "in Christ" a liar or an adulterer.

 

[Angela53510]

Good day Angela,



"For the word of God is living and active, sharper than any two-edged sword, piercing to the division of soul and of spirit, of joints and of marrow, and discerning the thoughts and intentions of the heart.

[/COLOR][/SIZE][/FONT]

"And they laughed at him, knowing that she was dead. But taking her by the hand he called, saying, “Child, arise.” And her spirit returned, and she got up at once."

As you can see from the scripture above, when Jesus took Jairus' daughter by the hand her spirit returned to her body. The following scripture demonstrates that body soul and spirit are each separate parts that make up a human being:



The body is a container where the soul and spirit reside. At the time of the resurrection, the spirit/soul of the believer who dies in Christ will be reunited with that resurrected body.

Of course, there is an eternal sense in which the body and soul willl be separated. But that is not what Gnosticism is about. It is about trying to separate the body and spirit while we are still alive.

In other words -through meditation or some secret knowledge bestowed by a guru, the gnostic tries to literally pull his spirit out of his body, in order that his spirit will not be contaminated by the flesh.

That is not what the Bible says, but several posters implied that our spirit was separate from our spirit in this life. And while it is true, we are justified, it is not just about our spirit, but about our entire walk with God. We simply cannot say our spirit is saved and pure, while we continue to habitually sin in our flesh.

Of course, someone who is truly saved, as John writes in his first epistle, would not want or try to walk in sin - but rather the one who is saved walks or abides with God and in the power of the Holy Spirit.

Because Gnosticism barely existed, if at all in the first century, Paul is not talking about a literal separation, especially because of the unholy or sinful flesh. I ran into this over and over in the New Age movement before I was saved. And sadly, many of them used Jesus as their example. It also came to mind in this thread, because I made a new friend in an RA forum, and he is totally into this syncretistic abomination of Christianity and Hinduism. Getting off the wheel of karma should never be our goal as Christians.

Instead, our goal should be to abide in Christ, to walk with him, and if we do sin, to confess our sins.

"Therefore be imitators of God, as beloved children.2 And walk in love, as Christ loved us and gave himself up for us, a fragrant offering and sacrifice to God." Eph. 5:1-2

Sorry I missed your original post, brother! It apparently disappeared!

 

[followjesus]

Those who are born of GOD cannot sin.

A person needs to understand what born of GOD means.

GOD Is a Spirit and must be worshiped In spirit and In TRUTH.

Paul said,by the mercies of GOD we should present our bodies a living sacrifice.

We are created new In the spirit born of GOD and thats the part GOD Is looking at.

We are GODs workmanship created In CHRIST unto good works which GOD had before,ordained that we should walk In them.

The cart does not come before the horse.

The horse will be first.

a person does indeed need to understand what being born of God is. does the word of God define that at all? in those same scriptures yeah it actually does tell us how we know we have been born of God.

1 john 3:7-10 "Dear children, do not let anyone lead you astray. The one who does what is right is righteous, just as he is righteous. The one who does what is sinful is of the devil, because the devil has been sinning from the beginning. The reason the Son of God appeared was to destroy the devil’s work. No one who is born of God will continue to sin, because God’s seed remains in them; they cannot go on sinning, because they have been born of God. This is how we know who the children of God are and who the children of the devil are: Anyone who does not do what is right is not God’s child, nor is anyone who does not love their brother and sister"

so we know we are born of God how? does it have anything to do with what we do? or again

1 john 2:3-6 'We know that we have come to know him if we keep his commands. Whoever says, “I know him,” but does not do what he commands is a liar, and the truth is not in that person. But if anyone obeys his word, love for God[SUP] [/SUP]is truly made complete in them. This is how we know we are in him: Whoever claims to live in him must live as Jesus did."


when peter was in the boat, saw Jesus and Jesus said It is I , come. it was up to peter to take the step. obedience doesn't just happen, it begins with accepting that obedience is Gods will for mankind. Then as that belief is accepted, the step is taken by the person. God is not or never will make us obey, that is not what Grace does. Grace makes a heart clean and new able to follow where the dead men could not submit to God. But the one born again is well able by the spirit of Jesus Christ in us, the hope and provision we need. obedience begins with faith, faith that trusts enough to step in the truth of Gods word. When the church sees that Gods word will work, He is unable to fail in Keeping His word, obedience is natural. the only way we truly see its truth is when we step onto the water because Jesus is calling us to follow Him. That is the exhibition of faith and also feeds faith like nothing else, doing the word proves its self true and increases grace in us to eventually move mountains through that same obedience that came by Grace. its not effortless to follow Jesus, its denying our self and making Him to be Lord.

It is fighting, struggling, running the race for the one who died to give us life. It is training as an athlete, beating our bodies into submission, crucifying our old nature of rebellion against God and His holiness. it is forsaking and fleeing from the evil desires, trusting in His provision that made us new when were in a struggle or falling behind in the race. Christianity, is not effortless. someones salvation is between themselves and God. It should be known that all of His words are true though. the warnings and blessings both are accurate and promised as are all of His words.

God will accept obedience at any point, and when we set our hearts and minds to obey Him, Grace shows up in full force to hold us up. A Christian is set upon "the horse" the moment they put faith in Jesus, its all on the believer to getty up and go, and Grace will shine as strength enough to keep His promises. Grace is all for the purpose of obedience to God, that obedience results in eternal life and every blessing promised. sometimes were waiting for what we are already capable of. a believer in Jesus Christ is already fully capable of following Jesus, its the decision to accept that He is saying obey, do these things. He is and always will be saying do what I'm saying....it is Life. procrastination can sometimes find us climbing off the horse and waiting for a different one that isn't provided By the Lord

 

[followjesus]

Essentially, salvation by knowing (gnosis) the true divine self. Gnostics had a dualistic world view that matter was evil and spirit was good. They believed that the old testament god (demiurge) enslaved mankind with law which kept them bound to the material world by preventing them from seeing who they really were, i.e., entrapped sparks of divine life. Persons became saved when they were awakened through the knowledge of who they really were. Salvation was a process of eschewing any entrapment of law (which only had relevance to the material world) and maintaining this awareness. I could go on, but that's basically it.

thank you I appreciate you taking the time to help me understand that. God bless you ( now ill have an idea of what I'm talking about when answering someone talking Gnosticism haha)

 

[posthuman]

I'm honestly not really sure what all the technical words mean. I think I do understand your point. conscience is a gift from God to give us direction, ignoring it or pretending we don't have one for the purpose of guiding our behavior. i.e. Guilt leads us to repentance and is a gift. If I myself do something wrong, I'm glad the Lord makes me aware that I need to confess and repent, in that there is forgiveness and cleansing of the conscience, rather than taking it as I'm already forgiven no matter how I treat other people. If a person lies, cheats, steals ect, conviction of the wrong action within the person by way of conscience can only be a good thing that leads to repentance and cleansing as the word says.

Honestly I think guilt when a person sins is a gift of correction when it is followed. I would hate to consider myself worthy In Gods sight when doing the opposite of what He says is right. I see pride in that that opposes who God is, and what Jesus died to accomplish. There is so much confusion do we need to repent? do we need to obey God? should we confess our sin? these are elementary truths found clearly in Gods written word. Humans Love sin its our nature, sin is not of God, and God will never Justify sin in our lives. neglecting the existence of conscience is dangerous, and stifles the cleansing work of Jesus Christ through the spirit of God working in us to make us whole again.

i think what you're trying to say is more or less wrapped up in this --

For godly sorrow worketh repentance to salvation not to be repented of:
but the sorrow of the world worketh death.
(2 Corinthians 7:10) ​

right? more through Paul

i think there is a difference in 'conviction' and 'guilt' -- maybe that's what differs in 'godly sorrow' and 'the sorrow of the world' -- just chasing down the right words to express an idea here.
that because we have died to what once bound us, we do not suffer condemnation ((oops! Romans 8:1!)), but because we are made alive to God through Christ, and from love, seek to serve and honor Him, the spirit in us is troubled by our failure, wanting to do instead the things that please God.

this is how ((in re: 1 John 3)) a believer cannot continue in sin, because we are born of God, and His seed dwells in us. the Spirit in us that animates us wars against this within us - we hate what we do - so that we simply cannot go on living in it. we despise it; our own behavior is often abominable to us. this is how Paul ((in re: Romans 7)) says that it is no longer him who does these things, but sin dwelling in him. as 'gnostic' as that may sound, there is a bit of dualism in the Christian experience. we experientially live out a life in which we are dead to the desire of the flesh, and mollify it, it having been crucified and also dead to us - yet it continues, until that time that these bodies are redeemed.
there is a dualism, but it doesn't extend so far that we are separate from our bodies, or that the body is utterly inconsequential. we are affected by it, and affect it, whether it has consequences for the promise we have in Christ or not, & part of that promise is the eventual redemption of it.

at the same time, speaking of dualism, we have that Christ Himself says

The Spirit gives life; the flesh counts for nothing.
(John 6:63)
​

contextually, He is explaining to the disciples the teaching that they must eat His flesh and drink His blood -- that He is speaking in spirit, not of literal cannibalism. but there is a more profound truth here -- it is by grace, by spirit that we are made alive - it is the desire of the flesh that is put to death. the same is found here from Paul -

But if Christ is in you, then even though your body is subject to death because of sin,
the Spirit gives life because of righteousness.
(Romans 8:10)

​

we live by the Spirit, in the spirit, not in the flesh. this dichotomy remains, but it isn't the complete, dissonant separation, where what we do in the flesh is meaningless. we obey from the heart; our circumcision is of the heart - and the working of the flesh is not what saves, and we are no longer condemned, as we remain in Him walking in spirit. but our proper reply is to 'beat our bodies and make them our slaves' ((also Paul, 1 Corinthians 9:27)) bringing it into subjection to the Spirit in us, because offering our bodies as a living sacrifice ((Romans 12:1)) is our act of spiritual worship.

amen, the flesh profits nothing -- but it is not altogether useless, and it will one day be redeemed!