What to do in church meetings Protestant Tradition v. Scripture

[Nehemiah6]

Paul does not say that tongues, prophecy, and "knowledge" would cease after the Bible was completed

If you cannot connect the dots -- and by now I have posted enough to show you -- then don't expect Paul to say something like that. The very fact that he singled them out of all the gifts and told you they would cease, should have already given you a clue.

 

[wattie]

What is ceased in 1 Co 13... is the GIFT of knowledge..not general knowledge obviously. Very different things.

But.. cessationism is not based only on this passage.

Alone.. it is a passage that is incomplete to prove cessationism.

So.. you also compare how the gifts were meant to be conducted then..with what people do with them now.

Also.. you have Ephesians 4 with a point of unity that is the measure of th stature of the fullness of Christ.

You also have scripture being called a mirror..as the perfect law of liberty.

You've also got the qualifications in the Bible to meet as an apostle. Who meets them now?

 

[posthuman]

Nowhere do we read that one pastor must preach a 45-minute sermon.

scripture does talk about what kind of salary that man makes.

none, if he's a man who follows the example of the apostles.

 

[Ballaurena]

Protestants have a tradition of singing songs having one man called the pastor preach the sermon which is a long speech followed by more songs. certain individuals praying and collecting the offering are intermixed in there and there's also Holy Communion which could be weekly or monthly depending on the Protestant church.

But the Bible does not teach this pattern.

In the Bible the apostles appointed multiple elders in a single church and exhorted them to pastor the church/flock.

Nowhere do we read that one pastor must preach a 45-minute sermon.
according to protestant tradition one clergyman exhorts the congregation but in scripture more than one member of the congregation speaks to edify the assembly.

According to tradition there is one sermon but according to scripture the people in the assembly may sing teach prophesy speaking tongues interpret tongues and exhort. (I Corinthians 14:26-31, Hebrews 10:24-25. cf. Romans 12:6-8, Romans 15:14.)

I think you would enjoy reading Pagan Christianity by Frank Viola and George Barna. That is if you haven't already, since you seem to be noting a lot of the same things they get into. Basically Christianity as we know it can trace much of its modern form to influences of Paganism, Judaism, and just plain arrogant people that thought they knew better than God how to run His church.

Good for you for asking the questions. Protestants of course look back at Martin Luther as a great man who challenged the unbiblical traditions of his day, but they generally fail to do the same thing themselves. And quite honestly, I think Martin Luther was rather blind to the traditions that gave him position in the first place.

 

[presidente]

If you cannot connect the dots -- and by now I have posted enough to show you -- then don't expect Paul to say something like that. The very fact that he singled them out of all the gifts and told you they would cease, should have already given you a clue.

Doctrine that relies on man's mind 'connecting the dots' is not questionable, especially when there is actually strong internal evidence from within the epistle pointing to a very different interpretation. If you will notice, the two witnesses prophesy in the book of Revelation. That should give you a hint.

 

[presidente]

I think you would enjoy reading Pagan Christianity by Frank Viola and George Barna. That is if you haven't already, since you seem to be noting a lot of the same things they get into. Basically Christianity as we know it can trace much of its modern form to influences of Paganism, Judaism, and just plain arrogant people that thought they knew better than God how to run His church.

Good for you for asking the questions. Protestants of course look back at Martin Luther as a great man who challenged the unbiblical traditions of his day, but they generally fail to do the same thing themselves. And quite honestly, I think Martin Luther was rather blind to the traditions that gave him position in the first place.

Frank sent me a copy of his book with Barna's contributions along with a stack of other books. I haven't gotten through all of them yet.

 

[Marilyn]

Protestants have a tradition of singing songs having one man called the pastor preach the sermon which is a long speech followed by more songs. certain individuals praying and collecting the offering are intermixed in there and there's also Holy Communion which could be weekly or monthly depending on the Protestant church.

But the Bible does not teach this pattern.

In the Bible the apostles appointed multiple elders in a single church and exhorted them to pastor the church/flock.

Nowhere do we read that one pastor must preach a 45-minute sermon.
according to protestant tradition one clergyman exhorts the congregation but in scripture more than one member of the congregation speaks to edify the assembly.

According to tradition there is one sermon but according to scripture the people in the assembly may sing teach prophesy speaking tongues interpret tongues and exhort. (I Corinthians 14:26-31, Hebrews 10:24-25. cf. Romans 12:6-8, Romans 15:14.)

However, the Holy Spirit does bring people together whether 2`s or `3`s etc despite man trying to organize God`s people. We should never measure what the Lord is doing by man`s public meetings.

 

[presidente]

What is ceased in 1 Co 13... is the GIFT of knowledge..not general knowledge obviously. Very different things.

But.. cessationism is not based only on this passage.

Alone.. it is a passage that is incomplete to prove cessationism.

So.. you also compare how the gifts were meant to be conducted then..with what people do with them now.

If you said there were thousands of false instances of spiritual gifts, that wouldn't rule out real instances of spiritual gifts. Do you have any evidence that the I Corinthians 13 gifts are the exact same thing the apostles were doing, in all cases, also?

Also.. you have Ephesians 4 with a point of unity that is the measure of th stature of the fullness of Christ.

This seems to be evidence against cessationism, if we are allowed to use empiracle evidence.

You also have scripture being called a mirror..as the perfect law of liberty.

Since 'the perfect law of liberty' was called perfect early on, when James 1 was written, before I Corinthians 13, Paul must have been writing about some other perfect thing that would come. The reference to the perfect law of liberty is not evidence for cessationism.

You've also got the qualifications in the Bible to meet as an apostle. Who meets them now?

How is this an argument for ceesationism. There is a list of qualifications to replace Judas as ___one of the twelve___ in Acts 1, but there were apostles other than the 12 also, including Paul who did not fit the qualifications to replace Judas in Acts 1, and who seems to imply he accepted Matthias in I Corinthians 15, since he writes of how the resurrected Christ appeared to the twelve before appearing to Him.