What translation has the exact words of God preserved for English speakers?

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Dino246

Senior Member
Jun 30, 2015
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In other words, we don’t know the truth....creates doubt about the validity of the version they are reading. Do I trust the text or the footnote? What else in the text may be uncertain? Confusion abounds!
Your "uncertainty" is nothing but your projection. I am not uncertain because I know that my faith doesn't rest on the number of disciples sent by Jesus, but on Jesus Himself. There's no confusion on my part.

In contrast, you have an artificial certainty that is apparently so fragile that you must invent ridiculous defenses for problems in the KJV text. Your faith rests in the text, not the Person about whom the text speaks.
 

John146

Senior Member
Jan 13, 2016
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Your "uncertainty" is nothing but your projection. I am not uncertain because I know that my faith doesn't rest on the number of disciples sent by Jesus, but on Jesus Himself. There's no confusion on my part.

In contrast, you have an artificial certainty that is apparently so fragile that you must invent ridiculous defenses for problems in the KJV text. Your faith rests in the text, not the Person about whom the text speaks.
Lol, your faith should be in the truth of God’s word. If you cannot trust part of it, why trust any of it? A faithful witness will not lie. Jesus and His word cannot be separated.
 

Dino246

Senior Member
Jun 30, 2015
24,555
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Lol, your faith should be in the truth of God’s word. If you cannot trust part of it, why trust any of it? A faithful witness will not lie. Jesus and His word cannot be separated.
They most certainly can: God's word didn't die for my sins; Jesus did.
 

John146

Senior Member
Jan 13, 2016
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Oh. My. Goodness.

I'm not going to entertain stupidity.
When you trusted Christ as your savior, were you putting your trust in Him or the testimony concerning Him? Or both? You can’t have one without the other.
 

Angela53510

Senior Member
Jan 24, 2011
11,780
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And you’re education comes from a professor. I bet your professor do not believe they have a Bible they can trust, only their education and ability to correct it. Could you ask your professors to correct all the mistakes and give us a Bible we can trust? Thanks.🤦‍♂️

What we learn in seminary are the Bible languages and tools like hermeneutics to interpret them. If you knew anything about languages, you would realize that you cannot translate directly from language to another, if they come from different languages groups. So the Romance Languages have similar construction, because they all grew out of Latin. But English is 1/3 French, 1/3 German and 1/3 other, including Saxon and old languages, or loan words like "ski" which comes from Norwegian.

Let's us take the word "the" as an example. In Greek, there are 24 different words for "the." Well, there are 17 forms, a few words are repeated, but you still have to understand that the 4 cases X 3 genders x singular and Plural. Hebrew uses "the" but being an Ancient Near East Language, it has very different categories. German has cases like Greek, & 3 genders, but plural is limited, so only 16 forms of "the!" French has 3 forms of "the" -le, la & les, whereas Spanish has 4 forms, el, la, los & las. Then there is Russian and Ukrainian which have no words for "the." I understand a lot of Asian languages also have no "the" and a lot of them drop out of Greek in seminary, because noun and article cases are beyond them. We won't even get into verbs, which take years to learn and understand.

So let's get back to your so-called "perfect" KJV language. Like modern English, there is one word for "the," the definite Article. It would be physically impossible to translate Greek or Hebrew into English, because the language itself is so different. Because of cases in Greek, it is possible to put the last part of the sentence at the front, to emphasize that the indirect object or dative, is more important than the subject, or nominative case. The KJV cannot directly quote Greek, because it is impossible to do! I've found this in number of places in the KJV when I was comparing it to Greek. (Although German is much easier, because the word order is similar!) My Greek professor used to say communication is the key to reading the Bible, so the receiving language, that is English, is more important than the sending language, which are Greek and Hebrew.

Hebrew is a bit closer to English word and the KJV does better than the Greek, if the objective is to make the translation identical to Greek. But that should not be the goal. Word for sword is never possible in translating. My Dad spoke Russian, and before he got saved, he was constantly saying how different Russian was from English and how you could never translate directly. Well, you can't translate directly, word for word from Greek to English nor Hebrew to English.

If you knew anything about translating, you would realize that everything you say is a total fabrication. I have 10 English translations, and Bibles in 6 other languages I read. I compare and contrast. One language emphasizes one thing in a verse or passage, another language emphasizes something else. So I go to Koine Greek or Masoretic Hebrew and see what they say. That is what scholars do. And God has made sure that Bibles can be understood, and are trustworthy, even if there is no such thing as a perfect word for word translation. The Bible is a living book. It speaks to us, it is not confined to a specific way of translating. I trust God in leaving us his word in many translations in many languages. We can learn the message of salvation and how to grow and live for Christ by reading any reasonable modern translation. We can trust the Bible, and if someone wants, the door is always open to learn more and dig deeper!
 

John146

Senior Member
Jan 13, 2016
16,540
3,503
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If you knew anything about languages, you would realize that you cannot translate directly from language to another, if they come from different languages groups.
I‘m ok with this. I don need a word for word translation, just the exact English words. I believe that’s what we have in the KJV, the very words of God preserved in the English language.

You do know there are examples throughout the Bible where we have one language being translated into another, and the translation is the inspired original. So yes, our God is very capable of speaking different languages and having the translations inspired.
 

Chester

Senior Member
May 23, 2016
4,273
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What we learn in seminary are the Bible languages and tools like hermeneutics to interpret them. If you knew anything about languages, you would realize that you cannot translate directly from language to another, if they come from different languages groups. So the Romance Languages have similar construction, because they all grew out of Latin. But English is 1/3 French, 1/3 German and 1/3 other, including Saxon and old languages, or loan words like "ski" which comes from Norwegian.

Let's us take the word "the" as an example. In Greek, there are 24 different words for "the." Well, there are 17 forms, a few words are repeated, but you still have to understand that the 4 cases X 3 genders x singular and Plural. Hebrew uses "the" but being an Ancient Near East Language, it has very different categories. German has cases like Greek, & 3 genders, but plural is limited, so only 16 forms of "the!" French has 3 forms of "the" -le, la & les, whereas Spanish has 4 forms, el, la, los & las. Then there is Russian and Ukrainian which have no words for "the." I understand a lot of Asian languages also have no "the" and a lot of them drop out of Greek in seminary, because noun and article cases are beyond them. We won't even get into verbs, which take years to learn and understand.

So let's get back to your so-called "perfect" KJV language. Like modern English, there is one word for "the," the definite Article. It would be physically impossible to translate Greek or Hebrew into English, because the language itself is so different. Because of cases in Greek, it is possible to put the last part of the sentence at the front, to emphasize that the indirect object or dative, is more important than the subject, or nominative case. The KJV cannot directly quote Greek, because it is impossible to do! I've found this in number of places in the KJV when I was comparing it to Greek. (Although German is much easier, because the word order is similar!) My Greek professor used to say communication is the key to reading the Bible, so the receiving language, that is English, is more important than the sending language, which are Greek and Hebrew.

Hebrew is a bit closer to English word and the KJV does better than the Greek, if the objective is to make the translation identical to Greek. But that should not be the goal. Word for sword is never possible in translating. My Dad spoke Russian, and before he got saved, he was constantly saying how different Russian was from English and how you could never translate directly. Well, you can't translate directly, word for word from Greek to English nor Hebrew to English.

If you knew anything about translating, you would realize that everything you say is a total fabrication. I have 10 English translations, and Bibles in 6 other languages I read. I compare and contrast. One language emphasizes one thing in a verse or passage, another language emphasizes something else. So I go to Koine Greek or Masoretic Hebrew and see what they say. That is what scholars do. And God has made sure that Bibles can be understood, and are trustworthy, even if there is no such thing as a perfect word for word translation. The Bible is a living book. It speaks to us, it is not confined to a specific way of translating. I trust God in leaving us his word in many translations in many languages. We can learn the message of salvation and how to grow and live for Christ by reading any reasonable modern translation. We can trust the Bible, and if someone wants, the door is always open to learn more and dig deeper!
Angela,
Thanks for the time and effort on this post - clear, concise, and powerful!
 

Chester

Senior Member
May 23, 2016
4,273
1,410
113
In other words, we don’t know the truth....creates doubt about the validity of the version they are reading. Do I trust the text or the footnote? What else in the text may be uncertain? Confusion abounds!
Did you even read my post? . . .

Most (I did not check all of them) of these versions have a footnote that clearly gives the textual difference here.
So they are telling the truth and are not lying. To arbitrarily decide that the KJV is inspired (like the original texts are) - well - that I will not do - because that would be a lie.

So, sorry, your attempt to make all these translations "disagree" is just not so: they all agree that there is a textual question we are not yet sure about.
 

Chester

Senior Member
May 23, 2016
4,273
1,410
113
Lol, your faith should be in the truth of God’s word. If you cannot trust part of it, why trust any of it? A faithful witness will not lie. Jesus and His word cannot be separated.
I trust the entirety of God's Word . . . but my faith is in Jesus Christ, not in the exact words of a Bible translation.
 

Chester

Senior Member
May 23, 2016
4,273
1,410
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You do know there are examples throughout the Bible where we have one language being translated into another, and the translation is the inspired original. So yes, our God is very capable of speaking different languages and having the translations inspired.
Absolutely right that there are some Scriptures in the 66 books of the inspired canon (original manuscripts) where one language is translated into another.

But now, what was the Scripture that says the KJV (and not the NWT) is inspired?
 

John146

Senior Member
Jan 13, 2016
16,540
3,503
113
When you trusted Christ as your savior, were you putting your trust in Him or the testimony concerning Him? Or both? You can’t have one without the other.
Funny, no one wants to answer this.
 

John146

Senior Member
Jan 13, 2016
16,540
3,503
113
Most (I did not check all of them) of these versions have a footnote that clearly gives the textual difference here. So they are telling the truth and are not lying.
So when this occurs, does the reader trust what the text says or the footnote? Where’s the truth?
 

John146

Senior Member
Jan 13, 2016
16,540
3,503
113
I trust the entirety of God's Word . . . but my faith is in Jesus Christ, not in the exact words of a Bible translation.
Ok, at least you admit that you can’t trust the words of your Bible.
 

Chester

Senior Member
May 23, 2016
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1,410
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So when this occurs, does the reader trust what the text says or the footnote? Where’s the truth?
Jesus said - I am the way, the truth, and the life. My trust is in the truth not the translation or the footnote.
 

Chester

Senior Member
May 23, 2016
4,273
1,410
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Ok, at least you admit that you can’t trust the words of your Bible.
Depends what you mean by "trust"! ?

If you mean "trust for salvation" - then you are right. I do not not trust in the "exact words of the KJV" for my salvation. I trust in Jesus Christ for my salvation.

I believe that only original manuscripts are inspired, in that, only they have the "exact words" that God gave through man. But I do believe that there are many trustworthy translations of those original manuscripts in many languages.
 

Chester

Senior Member
May 23, 2016
4,273
1,410
113
When you trusted Christ as your savior, were you putting your trust in Him or the testimony concerning Him? Or both? You can’t have one without the other.
When I believed in Jesus Christ as my Saviour, I did just that; I trusted in Jesus Christ as my Saviour. Mine was and still is a pretty simple faith.
 

John146

Senior Member
Jan 13, 2016
16,540
3,503
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Jesus said - I am the way, the truth, and the life. My trust is in the truth not the translation or the footnote.
17 Sanctify them through thy truth: thy word is truth.

17 So then faith cometh by hearing, and hearing by the word of God.