What were the transgressions?

john832 · Feb 28, 2014

Then it wasn't murder and it wasn't sin...

Rom 5:13 (For until the law sin was in the world: but sin is not imputed when there is no law.

Unless you disagree with Paul.

According to Paul, it can't be...

Rom 4:15 Because the law worketh wrath: for where no law is, there is no transgression.

Unlike your muddled thinking, the Bible is very clear about what a transgression is...

Rom 4:15 Because the law worketh wrath: for where no law is, there is no transgression.

1Jn 3:4 Whosoever committeth sin transgresseth also the law: for sin is the transgression of the law.

And again, you completely misunderstand what a schoolmaster is. It is a teacher. The Law of sacrifices teaches us that Christ is the ultimate sacrifice. God, Himself says He spoke NOTHING about sacrifices from Mt. Sinai...

Jer 7:22 For I spake not unto your fathers, nor commanded them in the day that I brought them out of the land of Egypt, concerning burnt offerings or sacrifices:

dcontroversal · Feb 28, 2014

A breaking of the 10 commandments as given by God.......

Woodartdon · Feb 28, 2014

So you are saying that everything else is OK?

dcontroversal said:

dcontroversal · Feb 28, 2014

Woodartdon said:

I don't recall saying that anything would be OK as the full strength of the Law is found under the 10 commandments...

The statutes, ordinances etc. are comparable to our law as in.....

1. If you kill somebody is it premeditated murder, justifiable homicide, manslaughter etc.

Thou shalt not kill<---the Commandment--->under this would be the statutes, ordinances, judgments etc. that would apply unto the circumstances.

Having said that....what is your point and what are you implying that I said was OK by simply stating...

Originally Posted by dcontroversal

A breaking of the 10 commandments as given by God.......

Woodartdon · Feb 28, 2014

The two of you might want to consider that Adam had already received the knowledge of Good and evil or have the two of you forgotten why Adam and Eve were removed from the Garden; Tree of knowledge of "good and evil"! So John832,you leave me in total confusion as to you logic.

john832 said:

Woodartdon · Feb 28, 2014

You set a limit to transgressions by your short insert and that imply's limits. If you make a incomplete statement any assumptions are of your own making. By the way:An ordinance such as is given in the Bible are man insertions, adding to God's Laws, not necessarily the same thing at all. Try not to be so easily bruised, I have nothing at all against you and may even have something to offer.

dcontroversal said:

john832 · Feb 28, 2014

Woodartdon said:

Seems you do not know what the two trees symbolized at all.

john832 · Feb 28, 2014

Woodartdon said:

Seems the truth of God does that to some people.

Woodartdon · Feb 28, 2014

Why don't you explain it to me instead of talking down to me or are you just demonstrating the spirit you operate under?

john832 said:

Woodartdon · Feb 28, 2014

No doubt about the spirit you are following as all you have is a smart mouth and no apparent study time of knowledge. Judgment is your middle name?

john832 said:

eternally-gratefull · Feb 28, 2014

Grandpa said:

I would say they did not realize how severe their plight was. As seen how often they wanted to go back immediately after they left.

They did not appreciate Gods provision for them, even while they were under slavery (his promise)

Instead of waiting for God to free them, as he promised a few hundred years ago, they complained, and murmered, and thought God had left them.

eternally-gratefull · Feb 28, 2014

Grandpa said:

I think Paul agrees with you.

Romans 7: [SUP]7 [/SUP]What shall we say then? Is the law sin? Certainly not! On the contrary, I would not have known sin except through the law. For I would not have known covetousness unless the law had said, “You shall not covet.”[SUP][a][/SUP] [SUP]8 [/SUP]But sin, taking opportunity by the commandment, produced in me all manner of evil desire. For apart from the law sin was dead. [SUP]9 [/SUP]I was alive once without the law, but when the commandment came, sin revived and I died. [SUP]10 [/SUP]And the commandment, which was to bring life, I found to bring death. [SUP]11 [/SUP]For sin, taking occasion by the commandment, deceived me, and by it killed me.

john832 · Feb 28, 2014

Woodartdon said:

Uh, I explained it in the post. It is very plain, there can be no sin or transgression without Law so if Cain sinned or transgressed then the Law was in force. The Ten Commandments were not the Law added because of transgressions. You cannot have transgressions without Laws. (Rom 4:15, 5:13 & I John 3:4) Something had to be added because the Law was being transgressed. What was added was sacrifices.

john832 · Feb 28, 2014

Woodartdon said:

Apparently confusion according to you.

dcontroversal · Feb 28, 2014

Woodartdon said:

HAH...Brother if you really knew me you would know that I am not easily bruised and or offended...And to lump all transgression under the big 10 if you will is not an incomplete statement mi amigo as ALL THE LAW and THE PROPHETS hang on the first 2 of the big 10

Concerning Ordinances...

Numbers 9:9-12 And the Lord spake unto Moses, saying............according to all the ordinances of the Passover they shall keep it.

Ezekiel 11:20 That they may walk in my statutes, and keep mine ordinances, and do them: and they shall be my people, and I will be their God.

Malachi 3:7 Even from the days of your fathers ye have gone away from my ordinances, and have not kept them. Return unto me, and I will return unto you, saith the Lord of Host's.

Which man made ordinances are you referring to?

john832 · Feb 28, 2014

dcontroversal said:

HAH...Brother if you really knew me you would know that I am not easily bruised and or offended...And to lump all transgression under the big 10 if you will is not an incomplete statement mi amigo as ALL THE LAW and THE PROPHETS hang on the first 2 of the big 10

Concerning Ordinances...

Numbers 9:9-12 And the Lord spake unto Moses, saying............according to all the ordinances of the Passover they shall keep it.

Ezekiel 11:20 That they may walk in my statutes, and keep mine ordinances, and do them: and they shall be my people, and I will be their God.

Malachi 3:7 Even from the days of your fathers ye have gone away from my ordinances, and have not kept them. Return unto me, and I will return unto you, saith the Lord of Host's.

Which man made ordinances are you referring to?

Psa 119:165 Great peace have they which love thy law: and nothing shall offend them.

dcontroversal · Feb 28, 2014

john832 said:

I love all the word of God for sure.......

Grandpa · Feb 28, 2014

john832 said:

You've just attempted to put the bible against its own self by your logic. And missed the whole point.

The first verse you posted says that sin was in the world before the law was given.

According to you, that is impossible because sin is only the transgression of the law.

While that is true, sin is the transgression of the law, sin and transgression existed before the law was given.

Otherwise it makes no sense to say the reason for the law being given is because of transgressions. There would literally be no transgression without the law being given using your logic.

Galatians 3:19 [SUP] [/SUP]Wherefore then serveth the law? It was added because of transgressions, till the seed should come to whom the promise was made; and it was ordained by angels in the hand of a mediator.

for where no law is there is no transgression. Where is this? Where is there no law and no transgression?

The schoolmaster is a teacher. The law. The 10 commandments.
Matthew 5
Be Perfect. As your Father in Heaven is Perfect.
You're going to need help with that one. I don't think you can be perfect like your Father in Heaven is Perfect without lots of help.
That's why the schoolmaster is the 10 commandments. It brings us to Christ. Our Help.

Sacrifice can't be the schoolmaster. Otherwise there would be a bunch of people sacrificing trying to learn what their sacrifice is supposed to mean, bringing them closer to Christ. Did you come to Christ while you were sacrificing animals??

But people are still working at the 10 commandments. It is still the schoolmaster and can still be seen to be bringing people to Christ. This is how I came to Christ. I needed Help. I couldn't be perfect by the force of my will and strength. Not according to the Law. Not unless I twist it and "interpret" it to mean something I can be perfect at. An honest person knows better.

Christ says "Come to me and I will give you rest". You think He meant rest from all those animals you were sacrificing? No. Rest from your own work at the law trying to be Perfect before God by your will and flesh.

Nobody is really sacrificing animals anymore. Not even Jews. Is the schoolmaster gone? Disappeared? Nope. Not one jot or one tittle has been removed from the schoolmaster. Nor will be.

peacefulbeliever · Feb 28, 2014

Grandpa said:

In keeping with the context of Romans 5 -

13) (For until the law sin was in the world: but sin is not imputed when there is no law.

19) For just as through the disobedience of the one man the many were made sinners, so also through the obedience of the one man the many will be made righteous. 20)The law was brought in so that the trespass might increase. But where sin increased, grace increased all the more, 21)so that, just as sin reigned in death, so also grace might reign through righteousness to bring eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord. . . . because of the disobedience of the one man - the Law was brought in - Romans 4:15 Because the law worketh wrath: for where no law is there is no transgression.

The transgressions are anything outside the will of God. I would say that the law entered to show us transgressions - to let us know we were transgressors.

seed_time_harvest · Feb 28, 2014

Grandpa said:

Hi grandpa
I think it was disobediance.All the law is summed up in one word.When JESUS was tempted,the devil tried to get JESUS to think about himself,but JESUS told him that man does not live on bread alone(physical),but every word that proceeds from GOD.
GOD is love.

What were the transgressions?

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