Whats the deal with Catholics?

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Sep 16, 2014
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The PROBLEM with Oral Tradition is its not written down.

Prove to us by Scriptures the Oral Traditions about Mary DeaconMike! Where exactly does the Scriptures say Mary was assumed into Heaven?

You CANNOT prove any of your Oral Traditions DeaconMike.
 
Jul 8, 2016
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Amen! For us 'Scipture says' is final; for Catholics 'Scripture says' is nothing but someone's 'interpreation' - what the church says ecis their ultimate authority. Sad to say, but Roman Catholics are slaves to Rome.[/QUOTE

Dear Mailmadan

The Protestant view on Sacred Scripture has caused 40,000 various denominations teaching all kinds of contradictory teachings. The Protestant is really left to their own personal judgement of what hey think Scripture teaches.
Go to the baptist church and the pastor won't baptize infants ; no problem just go across the street to the Methodist or Lutheran church. The teaching on faith. One clsims faith is only intellectual Assent others testy good works automatically come to prove your salvation. Some teach once saved always saved others do not. Some even deny the Trinity. And what's amazing about all this is they all claim to be right and they all claim to be guided by the Holy Spirit.
Tradition is inevitable for any group. If you don't believe me sit down with your pastor next week and tell him his interpretation is wrong about some topic. Yiu will see how fast you have tradition

The Catholic view on Sacred Tradition is trustworthy and can be traced consistently throughout centuries of teaching. Catholic teaching csn be traced from century to century and the development of doctrine is consistent. We can trust what we believe because we can see the consistently from century to century. So what I believe about the Eucharist is the same thing St Polycarp in the 2nd century believed. The Euchsristic prayers that are said at Mass are essentially the same prayers in the 2 be 3rd 4th centuries. Remember as well. The Catholic Church is not just the Roman Rite but the Church is made up of 21 various Liturgical Rites all descending from apostolic succession
 
Mar 28, 2016
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Mary Ark of the Covenant

Why do Catholics call Mary the Ark of the New Covenant? Answering that question will take us on a thrilling journey through the Old and New Testaments.
No such thing as a ark made after the corruptible sinful flesh (aging in a decaying process leading toward death.) Even the Son of man said His corrupted flesh typified as sinful profits for nothing. I would think that is a clue as to the manner of a spirit as the foundation of Catholicism.

The ark of the covenant is written in the book of the covenant. It in its entire entirety is the Word of God alone. Not the oral traditions of the fathers written in their book of the law the according to their law they must follow below.

I call it the the law of usurping the same law the apostate Jews used to make the word of God without effect.
I. THE RELATIONSHIP BETWEEN TRADITION AND SACRED SCRIPTURE
One common source. . .

The law of the fathers # 80 verses 39-41......."Sacred Tradition and Sacred Scripture, then, are bound closely together, and communicate one with the other. For both of them, flowing out from the same divine well-spring, come together in some fashion to form one thing, and move towards the same goal."40 Each of them makes present and fruitful in the Church the mystery of Christ, who promised to remain with his own "always, to the close of the age".41
.
According to James in respect to the word that the Spirit of Christ put on his tongue or moved the hand to write as a perfect law .A person can’t get the pure water of the word by which God cleanses his bride the church.... and salt water, the oral traditions of men from the same fountain as if it was all one foundation. .

Salt throughout scripture indicates a person is under judgment. The pure water of the word washes away our sin as far as east is from the west. A distinction between the “things of God” and “those of men” must be made. It is there that the father of lies Satan gets his foot in the door of any denomination.

ames 3:12 Can the fig tree, my brethren, bear olive berries? either a vine, figs? so can no fountain “both yield salt water and fresh”.

Scripture of itself is no authority to a Catholic ( none, zip) .According to them it cannot perform what it infallibly declares it can.... which is quicken a person’s soul and therefore gives us simply ones His understanding so that we then can seek after Him who has no form to behold.

It is as the one source of Christian faith.The one source of one faith is not that of a daysman called a Pope as if there was a fleshly mediator between man and God, approved by both and therefore hired by both God and man,.

This is as if God who forms Christ in the clay had no understanding of his own to offer. And we need to lean on the what they call ...venerable fathers understanding. . Even the Son of man refused to be called a daysman . he rejected all forms of worship in respect to his temporal flesh.

When called good teacher he would reply only; God is good. Supernatural God, a word that denotes no nature as a beginning remains without n mother or father beginning of days or end of Spirit life.

The Catholic journey as a different kind is through the oral traditions of men called fathers or Kings.
The worship-able or what they call venerable fathers, who bring Sacred Tradition as private revelations/interpretations ..

The pew Catholics must get under their false authority as the final authority according to their own kind of faith, measuring it in respect to the fathers. It is called in the scripture the “law of the fathers” or law of kings or princes as mere commandments of sinful men (all have sinned)

When Christ was faced with that kind of nemesis because the fathers, in respect to their own laws.They refused to measure faith according to His ark of the convent, the book of the covenant(the Bible)

Christ the anointing Holy Spirit of God would in a sarcastic (to tear at the flesh of natural man) way ... say onto them as written below.

Fill ye up then the "measure of your fathers".Ye serpents, ye generation of vipers, how can ye escape the damnation of hell? Mat 23:32

But the fathers who refused to hearken unto the word of God would simply create another oral tradition of men and make it to no effect. This is even though some a remnant did hear God and believe to the salvation of their soul.

That would be the “law of men” coming from the commandments of men who refuse to hearken unto the word of God as the final authority in matters of one faith (Christs’.. not Peters and the fathers .or Abraham and a succession of fathers ) They again make the faith that comes from hearing Christ not seen, to no effect by blaspheming the holy name by which all Christians are called by and through. .

The Catholics simply make it(the faith of God) without effect so that they can rather keep the traditions of men seen.

That doctrine of men is as old as the hills. Same queen of heaven different name. Same law of the fathers, different fathers. Same we rather will do whatever we want from our own mouths , different law of faith in respect to men .Therefore a different tradition. The oral, that they call the Sacred Tradition. The tradition as their own private authority comparing themselves by and to themselves, as the final authority needed to seek their own kind of approval .

The "law of the fathers" does not change hands from Abraham to Peter as if it ever was in respect to sinful men to begin with. .We are lovingly commanded to call no man on earth father. One is our Holy Father of spirits in heaven. We therefore in that way are to call no man father on earth . We can refer to them as father but not call them that as a tittle. Again it is reserved for one in heaven..................... alone.

A couple examples as how the word of God makes the law of the fathers to no effect. Therefore turning things that they turn upside down taking away God’s understanding , right side up.

Jeremiah 7:27 Therefore thou shalt speak all these words unto them; but they will not “hearken to thee”: thou shalt also call unto them; but they will not “answer thee”.

As for the word that thou hast spoken unto us in the name (authority) of the LORD, we will not “hearken unto thee”. But we will certainly do whatsoever thing goeth forth out of our own mouth, to burn incense unto the queen of heaven, and to pour out drink offerings unto her, as we have done, we, and “our fathers”, our kings, and our princes, in the cities of Judah, and in the streets of Jerusalem: for then had we plenty of victuals, and were well, and saw no evil. Jer 44:16

I think it is obvious God did sent them the strong delusion to believe the lie .The same strong delusion he sends to the Pope, the Catholic's daysman today.
 
Jul 8, 2016
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The PROBLEM with Oral Tradition is its not written down.

Prove to us by Scriptures the Oral Traditions about Mary DeaconMike! Where exactly does the Scriptures say Mary was assumed into Heaven?

You CANNOT prove any of your Oral Traditions DeaconMike.
Dear Ken
The bible itself is oral Tradition written down. The Church existed for nearly 400 years before the NT csnon was finalized. Acts 2:42 they gathered together and were taught by the apostles instructions and broke the bread and said the prayers"
Lots of things you believe are a development of Sacred Tradition the doctrine of the the Trinity was not fully developed for nearly 300 years. The understanding of Christ's Divinity and humanity hypostatic Union. The thing is Scripture contains the neccessary "stuff" of all doctrine. Either explicit or implicit. Scripture provides the " bricks " to build a wall. But you still need mortar and someone to put the bricks in place. Bricks alone won't get you a wall. It will get you a pile of bricks all going in different directions
 
Sep 16, 2014
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How can the Oral Tradition of Mary being without sin be Trustworthy when God clearly says Mary was a sinner?

How can the Oral tradition about Salvation being received by Baptism be Trustworthy when God clearly says in the Scriptures it is by Grace we receive Salvation?

Do you see how you are doing the will of Satan DeaconMike?

Trust God. Trust His Scriptures. Reject what the Catholic Church says. Listen to God because your very life depends on it.

No one can say Lord, Lord and follow Mary at the same time. Either you follow God and reject Mary, or follow Mary and be denied entrance into Heaven.

Its your choice DeaconMike. Just remember once you die without Jesus you can never accept Him after you die.
 
Mar 28, 2016
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The Catholic Church is not just the Roman Rite but the Church is made up of 21 various Liturgical Rites all descending from apostolic succession
No such thing as”apostolic succession". The word of God as it is written, as a perfect law is not subject to change by the oral traditions of the fathers. It alone is the one reforming authority in any generation..

The law in Deuteronomy infallibly informs us we cannot add to a single word another meaning other than what the word was designed according to the original autograph . The word apostle simply means "sent one".This with no other meaning attached. It can be used to sending a child to the grocery store .There is no spiritual meaning attached "sent one" . You cannot add the meaning; authorative ones to it. Adding to it, a commandment of men called fathers shows a person has violated the, law and therefore changes the commandment by making the law to no effect. . .

Deuteronomy 4:2 Ye shall not add unto the word which I command you, neither shall ye diminish ought from it, that ye may keep the commandments of the LORD your God which I command you.

All Christians have the authority of Christ in them if not they simply do not belong to Christ. The loving commandment verifies it is not of us in any way shape or form. The Catholic fathers seeing they have added a new meaning to it simply will not hearken to 2 Corinthians 4:7 below.

2Corinthians 4:7 But we have this treasure in earthen vessels, that the excellency of the power “may be of God”, and not of us.

They have a need of making the apostles above that which is written to no effect by another of their oral traditions of the fathers.

Scripture, which they make to no effect.... infallibly informs us differently. Below he uses the apostles as a parable or pattern to show us what not to do (usurp his authority by assuming it could come after sinful men like the apostles).Therefore the perfect law in the end of the matter establishing “who” it is that does make one different form the others.

The Catholic venerable fathers just as if they did not have to receive it freely as a spiritual gift .

And these things, brethren, I have in a figure transferred to “myself and to Apollos” for your sakes; that ye might learn “in us” not to think of men above that which is written, that no one of you be puffed up for one (Catholics) against another(Protestants) .For who maketh thee to differ from another? and what hast thou that thou didst not receive? now if thou didst receive it, why dost thou glory, as if thou hadst not received it? 1Co 4:6
 
Jul 8, 2016
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No such thing as”apostolic succession". The word of God as it is written, as a perfect law is not subject to change by the oral traditions of the fathers. It alone is the one reforming authority in any generation..

The law in Deuteronomy infallibly informs us we cannot add to a single word another meaning other than what the word was designed according to the original autograph . The word apostle simply means "sent one".This with no other meaning attached. It can be used to sending a child to the grocery store .There is no spiritual meaning attached "sent one" . You cannot add the meaning; authorative ones to it. Adding to it, a commandment of men called fathers shows a person has violated the, law and therefore changes the commandment by making the law to no effect. . .

Deuteronomy 4:2 Ye shall not add unto the word which I command you, neither shall ye diminish ought from it, that ye may keep the commandments of the LORD your God which I command you.

All Christians have the authority of Christ in them if not they simply do not belong to Christ. The loving commandment verifies it is not of us in any way shape or form. The Catholic fathers seeing they have added a new meaning to it simply will not hearken to 2 Corinthians 4:7 below.

2Corinthians 4:7 But we have this treasure in earthen vessels, that the excellency of the power “may be of God”, and not of us.

They have a need of making the apostles above that which is written to no effect by another of their oral traditions of the fathers.

Scripture, which they make to no effect.... infallibly informs us differently. Below he uses the apostles as a parable or pattern to show us what not to do (usurp his authority by assuming it could come after sinful men like the apostles).Therefore the perfect law in the end of the matter establishing “who” it is that does make one different form the others.

The Catholic venerable fathers just as if they did not have to receive it freely as a spiritual gift .

And these things, brethren, I have in a figure transferred to “myself and to Apollos” for your sakes; that ye might learn “in us” not to think of men above that which is written, that no one of you be puffed up for one (Catholics) against another(Protestants) .For who maketh thee to differ from another? and what hast thou that thou didst not receive? now if thou didst receive it, why dost thou glory, as if thou hadst not received it? 1Co 4:6
Dear Garee

And it says Scrioture is the sole rule of faith were?
Look at the last verse you quoted.

Notice there are two sources of knowledge the Corinthians are recurving.

Verse 6 brethren thst you msy LEARN FROM US
( the apostles, apostolic authority) not to go beyond what is written .

Two sources ; apostolic authority and Sacred Scripture,

Again; no one is debating whether. Scripture is authoritive. Scripture never states that it is the only authority ( alone)
 
May 26, 2016
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Dear Garee

And it says Scrioture is the sole rule of faith were?
Look at the last verse you quoted.

Notice there are two sources of knowledge the Corinthians are recurving.

Verse 6 brethren thst you msy LEARN FROM US
( the apostles, apostolic authority) not to go beyond what is written .

Two sources ; apostolic authority and Sacred Scripture,

Again; no one is debating whether. Scripture is authoritive. Scripture never states that it is the only authority ( alone)


So why do the Catholics go beyond that which is written?.

The Apostolic authority, Has to be based on the scriptures.
 
Jul 8, 2016
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So why do the written Catholics go beyond that which is written?.

The Apostolic authority, Has to be based on the scriptures.
Dear God4me
Sacred Sripture is really Oral Tradition written down.
Scripture contains all the neccessary information for salvation. Divine Revelation ended with the death of the last apostle. Both are part of the Sacred deposit of faith. Same source two different modes of transmission
Scripture is sufficient in the sense that it contains all the " stuff" needed for salvation. The bricks so to speak. But if your going to build a wall you stil need mortar and someone to set the bricks in place
 
May 26, 2016
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Dear God4me
Sacred Sripture is really Oral Tradition written down.
Scripture contains all the neccessary information for salvation. Divine Revelation ended with the death of the last apostle. Both are part of the Sacred deposit of faith. Same source two different modes of transmission
Scripture is sufficient in the sense that it contains all the " stuff" needed for salvation. The bricks so to speak. But if your going to build a wall you stil need mortar and someone to set the bricks in place


Any spoken traditions, [Word of God], Has to be in line with the scriptures, So that rules out the Catholics so-called oral traditions.

Where would the RCC get their traditions from??, Certainly not from the Apostles or any God given Minister, as they aren't the same teachings as the Apostles.
The Catholics traditions and doctrines come from man made false beliefs.
The last Apostle hasn't died yet, and never will do, They will be raptured to heaven with the rest of the Christians.
 
Jul 8, 2016
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Any spoken traditions, [Word of God], Has to be in line with the scriptures, So that rules out the Catholics so-called oral traditions.

Where would the RCC get their traditions from??, Certainly not from the Apostles or any God given Minister, as they aren't the same teachings as the Apostles.
The Catholics traditions and doctrines come from man made false beliefs.
The last Apostle hasn't died yet, and never will do, They will be raptured to heaven with the rest of the Christians.
Dear God4me
All Carholic Doctrine can be found in Sacred Scripture either explicitly or emplicitly.
 
Apr 30, 2016
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Any spoken traditions, [Word of God], Has to be in line with the scriptures, So that rules out the Catholics so-called oral traditions.

Where would the RCC get their traditions from??, Certainly not from the Apostles or any God given Minister, as they aren't the same teachings as the Apostles.
The Catholics traditions and doctrines come from man made false beliefs.
The last Apostle hasn't died yet, and never will do, They will be raptured to heaven with the rest of the Christians.
Hi God4me
The N.T. speaks of tradition in two different ways.
One is that Jesus rebukes the Pharisees for following the traditions of men instead of the commandments of God.
Mathew 15:1-3

This is repeated in Mark 7:3-9 in more detail. See Mark 7:8

But then we come across verses such as :
1 Corinthians 11:2
[SUP]"2 [/SUP]I praise you for remembering me in everything and for holding to the traditions just as I passed them on to you." NIV

2 Thessalonians 2:15
"[SUP]15 [/SUP]So then, brethren, stand firm and hold to the traditions which you were taught, whether by word of mouth or by letter from us." NASB

2 Thessalonians 3:6
"[SUP]6 [/SUP]Now we command you, brethren, in the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, that you keep away from every brother who leads an unruly life and not according to the tradition which you received from us."

There were also letters that were sent to the different churches that did not make it into the N.T. because the book would have been just too long. See 1 Corinthians 16:3 And John 21:25


What do you make of this? The Didache is also nteresting. It's a set of rules that were writting dow by those immediately following the Apostles. I can't remember if John had anything to do with this writing.

I do feel that traditions are also very important. I do agree that they should be in keeping with the Word - but we cannot just say that they aren't important.

Fran
 
May 26, 2016
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Dear God4me
All Carholic Doctrine can be found in Sacred Scripture either explicitly or emplicitly.

The Catholic doctrines aren't in the Bible, why tell lies.
If they were, you wouldn't say you believe the Bible AND traditions, there would be no need to add the "AND", you would just say you believe the Bible.
 
May 26, 2016
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Hi God4me
The N.T. speaks of tradition in two different ways.
One is that Jesus rebukes the Pharisees for following the traditions of men instead of the commandments of God.
Mathew 15:1-3

This is repeated in Mark 7:3-9 in more detail. See Mark 7:8

But then we come across verses such as :
1 Corinthians 11:2
[SUP]"2 [/SUP]I praise you for remembering me in everything and for holding to the traditions just as I passed them on to you." NIV

2 Thessalonians 2:15
"[SUP]15 [/SUP]So then, brethren, stand firm and hold to the traditions which you were taught, whether by word of mouth or by letter from us." NASB

2 Thessalonians 3:6
"[SUP]6 [/SUP]Now we command you, brethren, in the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, that you keep away from every brother who leads an unruly life and not according to the tradition which you received from us."

There were also letters that were sent to the different churches that did not make it into the N.T. because the book would have been just too long. See 1 Corinthians 16:3 And John 21:25


What do you make of this? The Didache is also nteresting. It's a set of rules that were writting dow by those immediately following the Apostles. I can't remember if John had anything to do with this writing.

I do feel that traditions are also very important. I do agree that they should be in keeping with the Word - but we cannot just say that they aren't important.

Fran


The traditions in 2 Thess, are the OT scrolls, the gospels and the epistles, which are now recorded in the Bible.

There is no such Biblical thing as the Catholic traditions.
 
Jul 8, 2016
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The traditions in 2 Thess, are the OT scrolls, the gospels and the epistles, which are now recorded in the Bible.

There is no such Biblical thing as the Catholic traditions.
Dear God 4me

The scriotures are the OT but St Paul is giving instructions to the Thess to " continue" in the teachings I have " handed on to you" both by word ( oral instruction ) and letter ( written instruction)

To modes of authority Oral and written and the Thess. Are instructed to continue to follow them.
There is no indication anywhere in the NT the Oral Tradition would end once a bible was written. In fact Jesus never commanded anyone to write anything. Or is there any indication s future book would be written as an authority.
 
Jul 8, 2016
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The traditions in 2 Thess, are the OT scrolls, the gospels and the epistles, which are now recorded in the Bible.

There is no such Biblical thing as the Catholic traditions.
Dear Fran
No the Didiche is what as known as an early Chuch Instruction" kind of a predecessor to a missal. It lays out how the Liturgy should be conducted and other issues. It contains an early "anaphora" which is a Euchsristic prayer.
St John was not part of this Jewish community I'm pretty sure it was antichian in origin
 
Feb 26, 2015
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Where exactly in the Scriptures does The Holy Spirit says Mary was assumed into Heaven?

We do know for a fact the Catholic Church rejects the Scriptures to teach their Oral Tradition of Mary bein assumed.

966 "Finally the Immaculate Virgin, preserved free from all stain of original sin, when the course of her earthly life was finished, was taken up body and soul into heavenly glory, and exalted by the Lord as Queen over all things, so that she might be the more fully conformed to her Son, the Lord of lords and conqueror of sin and death." The Assumption of the Blessed Virgin is a singular participation in her Son's Resurrection and an anticipation of the resurrection of other Christians:
In giving birth you kept your virginity; in your Dormition you did not leave the world, O Mother of God, but were joined to the source of Life. You conceived the living God and, by your prayers, will deliver our souls from death.

974
The Most Blessed Virgin Mary, when the course of her earthly life was completed, was taken up body and soul into the glory of heaven, where she already shares in the glory of her Son's Resurrection, anticipating the resurrection of all members of his Body.

You are listening to Satan DeconMike. Why do you hate God?

And yes you hate God when you exalt Mary with the lies of the Catholic Church.

Do you not understand DeaconMike you have made Mary your God? CCC 966 and CCC 974 are lies from Satan. There is nothing but lies in both of these which does prove the Catholic Church is a false church worshiping Mary instead of God. Why do you follow Satan? The Mary that you follow is a Demon.

You destiny has been sealed. Because you worship and follow the Mary of the Catholic Church God cannot allow your kind to pollute Heaven with your sins.
 
Jul 8, 2016
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Where exactly in the Scriptures does The Holy Spirit says Mary was assumed into Heaven?

We do know for a fact the Catholic Church rejects the Scriptures to teach their Oral Tradition of Mary bein assumed.

966 "Finally the Immaculate Virgin, preserved free from all stain of original sin, when the course of her earthly life was finished, was taken up body and soul into heavenly glory, and exalted by the Lord as Queen over all things, so that she might be the more fully conformed to her Son, the Lord of lords and conqueror of sin and death." The Assumption of the Blessed Virgin is a singular participation in her Son's Resurrection and an anticipation of the resurrection of other Christians:
In giving birth you kept your virginity; in your Dormition you did not leave the world, O Mother of God, but were joined to the source of Life. You conceived the living God and, by your prayers, will deliver our souls from death.

974
The Most Blessed Virgin Mary, when the course of her earthly life was completed, was taken up body and soul into the glory of heaven, where she already shares in the glory of her Son's Resurrection, anticipating the resurrection of all members of his Body.

You are listening to Satan DeconMike. Why do you hate God?

And yes you hate God when you exalt Mary with the lies of the Catholic Church.

Do you not understand DeaconMike you have made Mary your God? CCC 966 and CCC 974 are lies from Satan. There is nothing but lies in both of these which does prove the Catholic Church is a false church worshiping Mary instead of God. Why do you follow Satan? The Mary that you follow is a Demon.

You destiny has been sealed. Because you worship and follow the Mary of the Catholic Church God cannot allow your kind to pollute Heaven with your sins.
Dear MikeHenderson
What do you think Mary's role was for God?
Do you think Mary had any similarities to Eve in the Garden? Who is the women in Grn 3:15 ? Do you think Mary had any similarities to the ark of the covenant with the Isrealites ?
 
Feb 26, 2015
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Mary's role was only to bring Jesus into this World. There is nothing else she was to do.

No! Mary is NOT similar to Eve! The Woman in Genesis 3:15 is Eve NOT Mary!

Mary had nothing to do with the Ark of the covenant.

This is the Major problem with the Catholics. They have actually rejected God to Worship Mary as their God. They have tried to put Mary above God. But I thank God the He has more Power than the Catholics and the Catholic Church!

Your Worship of Mary will keep you from spending Eternity with God. Instead the Lake Of Fire is where all the Catholics will spend all Eternity.
 
Jul 8, 2016
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Mary's role was only to bring Jesus into this World. There is nothing else she was to do.

No! Mary is NOT similar to Eve! The Woman in Genesis 3:15 is Eve NOT Mary!

Mary had nothing to do with the Ark of the covenant.

This is the Major problem with the Catholics. They have actually rejected God to Worship Mary as their God. They have tried to put Mary above God. But I thank God the He has more Power than the Catholics and the Catholic Church!

Your Worship of Mary will keep you from spending Eternity with God. Instead the Lake Of Fire is where all the Catholics will spend all Eternity.
Deer Mike Henderson

First Mike. The Church does not adore Mary. We honor her because of the role she played in salvation history.
The Church very early recognized the biblical
Connections. This typology has to do with God defeating Satan
What would you say if I walked you through all the biblical scriptures and typology?
If you want to learn you might gain something. If not don't complain if your not willing to understand.