When and what does Satan falling from heaven represent? What does fallen represent?

  • Christian Chat is a moderated online Christian community allowing Christians around the world to fellowship with each other in real time chat via webcam, voice, and text, with the Christian Chat app. You can also start or participate in a Bible-based discussion here in the Christian Chat Forums, where members can also share with each other their own videos, pictures, or favorite Christian music.

    If you are a Christian and need encouragement and fellowship, we're here for you! If you are not a Christian but interested in knowing more about Jesus our Lord, you're also welcome! Want to know what the Bible says, and how you can apply it to your life? Join us!

    To make new Christian friends now around the world, click here to join Christian Chat.

Blain

Senior Member
Aug 28, 2012
15,701
1,052
113
#21
He does provide different levels of understanding .The historical and unseen spiritual come along side each other and reveal the gospel hid from natural unconverted mankind.

I was thinking the timing in regard the in the parable Revelation 20 . , "that he should deceive the nations no more"

We know it does not mean he would not deceive mankind for a period of time .Satan will be deceiving mankind as long as it remains under the Sun and men dwell in bodies of death (flesh and blood)

The should deceive the nations no more is that moment of time or like it say like lightning a flash . It was announced when Jesus said it is finished. The reformation had come .The Jews lost their false identity as gods people according to the flesh. Satan lost his opportunist to deceive all the nation. that God was the God of one nation as to how he deceived the nations.

It must of had to do with the reformation. Up until that time the nations of the world were under the illusion that our savoir had something to do with Jewish flesh as if salvation was after any flesh. They were simply used as shadows to represent mankind, both converted and not converted .Just as he used foods and animals in ceremonies. Clean to represent the redeemed, unclean to represent natural man .

When Jesus therefore had received the vinegar, he said, It is finished: and he bowed his head, and gave up the ghost. John 19:30 (KJV)

The he saw him fall and cast set a seal that he could not deceive all the nations .That the Creator is only the God of the corrupted hews and not the God of the whole of mankind. Again it was never about the corrupted flesh of mankind to begin with. Satan got a surprise that he will never forget. . No face to put on put him in a identity crisis .Took away all possibly outward identity to deceive all the nations

And he said unto them, I beheld Satan as lightning fall from heaven.Luke 10:18


And cast him into the bottomless pit, and shut him up, and set a seal upon him, that he should deceive the nations no more, till the thousand years should be fulfilled: and after that he must be loosed a little season. Revelation 20: 3
It is true that there seems to be a confusion about the flesh and the spirit. After all when Jesus was prophesied to come people expected a king like David a conqueror and Jesus was a conqueror just not of the flesh rather the spirit. The Jews believed that they would be God's people alone and some still believe this but the people God chose was not one of the flesh but the spirit. People may not be born of Hebrew descent but they can be in spirit thus bringing the entire world into God's grasp which is why I look at the cross as the left part Jews the right part gentiles the bottom earth and the top as heaven and Jisus being on the cross connects them all no longer any separation
 

Adstar

Senior Member
Jul 24, 2016
6,023
2,609
113
#22
Revelation 12 is a general picture of an event, the fall of Satan and his third, that happened way before Eden. It is ludicrous to suggest Satan has access to heaven. View attachment 214064
I disagree the Book of Job which gives an account of the trials of Job way after the times of Eden reveals that satan had access to heaven at that time and had freedom to travel back and forth from heaven to the earth..

Job 1: KJV
6 "¶ Now there was a day when the sons of God came to present themselves before the LORD, and Satan came also among them. {7} And the LORD said unto Satan, Whence comest thou? Then Satan answered the LORD, and said, From going to and fro in the earth, and from walking up and down in it."

The LORD was in heaven when they presented themselves to Him and satan was among them..

God ask where Satan had been dwelling in Job 1 and he said "to and fro in the earth." This is where he and his third are imprisoned.
I disagree the ones who are currently imprisoned in the bottomless pit are the Angels who left their first estate ( heaven ) and came down to earth and took the daughters of men as wives and had hybrid Children with them.. Their leader was not satan the Bible names the Angel who is their king in the bottomless pit His name is Abaddon

Revelation 9: KJV
11 "And they had a king over them, which is the angel of the bottomless pit, whose name in the Hebrew tongue is Abaddon, but in the Greek tongue hath his name Apollyon."
 

Adstar

Senior Member
Jul 24, 2016
6,023
2,609
113
#23
I would think because he has fallen signaled by when Christ spoke the words "it is finished" .Satan can no longer deceive all the nations of the world.
The world is currently filled with deceptions.. So the idea that satan is currently bound in chains in the bottomless pit to me is demonstrably wrong.. Just look at the world we live in.. Satan is at work here, now, for sure..
 

Dave-L

Well-known member
Jan 17, 2020
4,520
691
113
#24
The world is currently filled with deceptions.. So the idea that satan is currently bound in chains in the bottomless pit to me is demonstrably wrong.. Just look at the world we live in.. Satan is at work here, now, for sure..
Satan is bound from not deceiving the nations as in God fulfilling the promise to Abraham having all nations blessed in him. But God uses Satan as a tool for his rule over the nations with a rod of iron. Here's an example.

“And he said, Hear thou therefore the word of the LORD: I saw the LORD sitting on his throne, and all the host of heaven standing by him on his right hand and on his left. And the LORD said, Who shall persuade Ahab, that he may go up and fall at Ramoth-gilead? And one said on this manner, and another said on that manner. And there came forth a spirit, and stood before the LORD, and said, I will persuade him. And the LORD said unto him, Wherewith? And he said, I will go forth, and I will be a lying spirit in the mouth of all his prophets. And he said, Thou shalt persuade him, and prevail also: go forth, and do so. Now therefore, behold, the LORD hath put a lying spirit in the mouth of all these thy prophets, and the LORD hath spoken evil concerning thee.” 1 Kings 22:19–23 (KJV 1900)
 

garee

Senior Member
Mar 28, 2016
14,120
1,331
113
#25
Rev. 12 covers a large time frame. It covers the war in heaven, Satan and the third cast down to earth, the forming of the Church, Jesus first coming, the persecution of the Church and the defeat of Satan's army. It covers most of the 6-7 thousand years of our history. Many of the chapters cover large time frames and the whole book is not to be considered chronologically represented.

What it does not cover is the statement in Rev. 20 of him being bound to deceive the world (nations) anymore. That binding is at the second coming of our Lord. You try to make everything now and forever invisible. No, Christ said the second coming will be very visible:

Matt. 24:30 "And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory." :)

I would say a continuation, forming the church rather building on her who began with Abel in Genesis the first lively stone used to build up his bride the church. The first prophet, apostle and martyr. Pentecost only revealed what had begun in Genesis God is the father of all the nations of the world. .

The body of Christ as his wife is made up of many lively stones that does make up the spiritual un-seen house of God the church.

We are informed in 2 Corinthians 5:16 that even though some did know Christ after the flesh mixing with faith (2 Corinthians 5:16). That when he left having completed the one time promised demonstration of the father not seen and the Son seen .That no more demonstrations would be given . God is not a man as us and neither is there a fleshly umpire called a daysman set between God and mankind as a infallible umpire. (pope)

2 Corinthians 5:16 Wherefore henceforth know we no man after the flesh: yea, though we have known Christ after the flesh, yet now henceforth know we him no more.

Son of Man” is a phrase used to describe the divine savior a figure or parable. God is not a man as us . He uses the things seen the temporal to give us a vision of the upcoming . A shadow. The substance is even greater than the corrupted existing waiting to be unveiled in all of God's splendor and glory .

We walk in that shadow as a living hope of receiving our new incorruptible bodies as His eternal chaste virgin bride.

2 Corinthians 4:18 While we look not at the things which are seen, but at the things which are not seen: for the things which are seen are temporal; but the things which are not seen are eternal.

When we see Him on the last day in the clouds. Clouds are used to represent the invisible presence of God. It will be a flash of lighting . . the entrance of His glory . . .lighting the new heavens and earth from the east to the west . There will be no temple there and neither will there be night .
 

Dino246

Senior Member
Jun 30, 2015
13,593
7,373
113
#26
I would say a continuation, forming the church rather building on her who began with Abel in Genesis the first lively stone used to build up his bride the church. The first prophet, apostle and martyr. Pentecost only revealed what had begun in Genesis God is the father of all the nations of the world. .

The body of Christ as his wife is made up of many lively stones that does make up the spiritual un-seen house of God the church.

We are informed in 2 Corinthians 5:16 that even though some did know Christ after the flesh mixing with faith (2 Corinthians 5:16). That when he left having completed the one time promised demonstration of the father not seen and the Son seen .That no more demonstrations would be given . God is not a man as us and neither is there a fleshly umpire called a daysman set between God and mankind as a infallible umpire. (pope)

2 Corinthians 5:16 Wherefore henceforth know we no man after the flesh: yea, though we have known Christ after the flesh, yet now henceforth know we him no more.

Son of Man” is a phrase used to describe the divine savior a figure or parable. God is not a man as us . He uses the things seen the temporal to give us a vision of the upcoming . A shadow. The substance is even greater than the corrupted existing waiting to be unveiled in all of God's splendor and glory .

We walk in that shadow as a living hope of receiving our new incorruptible bodies as His eternal chaste virgin bride.

2 Corinthians 4:18 While we look not at the things which are seen, but at the things which are not seen: for the things which are seen are temporal; but the things which are not seen are eternal.

When we see Him on the last day in the clouds. Clouds are used to represent the invisible presence of God. It will be a flash of lighting . . the entrance of His glory . . .lighting the new heavens and earth from the east to the west . There will be no temple there and neither will there be night .
What does "heaven" represent in your understanding? What does "salvation" represent? What does "eternal life" represent? What does "God" represent?
 

Deade

Called of God
Dec 17, 2017
14,238
8,290
113
74
Vinita, Oklahoma, USA
yeshuaofisrael.org
#27
I disagree the Book of Job which gives an account of the trials of Job way after the times of Eden reveals that satan had access to heaven at that time and had freedom to travel back and forth from heaven to the earth..

Job 1: KJV
6 "¶ Now there was a day when the sons of God came to present themselves before the LORD, and Satan came also among them. {7} And the LORD said unto Satan, Whence comest thou? Then Satan answered the LORD, and said, From going to and fro in the earth, and from walking up and down in it."

The LORD was in heaven when they presented themselves to Him and satan was among them..



I disagree the ones who are currently imprisoned in the bottomless pit are the Angels who left their first estate ( heaven ) and came down to earth and took the daughters of men as wives and had hybrid Children with them.. Their leader was not satan the Bible names the Angel who is their king in the bottomless pit His name is Abaddon

Revelation 9: KJV
11 "And they had a king over them, which is the angel of the bottomless pit, whose name in the Hebrew tongue is Abaddon, but in the Greek tongue hath his name Apollyon."
You are assuming that the "sons of God" are angels and that the meeting in Job 1 was in heaven. I contend that the meeting was on earth among believers. God's presence is promised in such a meeting:

Matt. 18:20 "For where two or three are gathered together in my name, there am I in the midst of them."

Again, in Genesis 6:2 you are assuming "sons of God" are angels. God does not refer to angels as sons. So, your whole premise is skewed. :)
 

garee

Senior Member
Mar 28, 2016
14,120
1,331
113
#28
What does "heaven" represent in your understanding? What does "salvation" represent? What does "eternal life" represent? What does "God" represent?
Thanks for the reply.

I would offer heaven represents the space God has set aside as holy to represent different aspects of his gospel program.

When God created heaven as space or media it was to display his work. It was in respect to heavens (plural). One heaven the space of the earth (life). Another outer-space used as metaphors in parables another heaven . And the unseen holy place of faith called Holy of Hollies. The unseen glory of God the third. God uses three to represent the end of a matter.

Salvation is the work of God working in mankind. Those under the letter of the law death it pertains to those being delivered of their suffering, now in part when we do rest in Christ our Sabbath in whom we are yoked and with a future living hope of a eternal rest being delivered from the bodies of death giving us eternal never ending life. Death as to the letter of the law having been cast into the judgment of Christ .

The letter, death never rising again to condemn by corruption another new creation.

What's your take on the question you asked ?
 

garee

Senior Member
Mar 28, 2016
14,120
1,331
113
#29
You are assuming that the "sons of God" are angels and that the meeting in Job 1 was in heaven. I contend that the meeting was on earth among believers. God's presence is promised in such a meeting:

Matt. 18:20 "For where two or three are gathered together in my name, there am I in the midst of them."

Again, in Genesis 6:2 you are assuming "sons of God" are angels. God does not refer to angels as sons. So, your whole premise is skewed. :)
I see that a little differently Apostles are messengers sent with the word of another. Called the believers new tongue the gospel.

In that way we are to be careful who we are entertaining could be a brother in need or someone sent to supply your need. We must be carefully how we hear the gospel.

The sons of God. "Of God" used as the source . . . born from above they are the messenger, apostles sent they bring the gospel .

In Genesis 6 the spiritual seed of Christ was being endangered. believers procreating with daughter of men .Of men representing born of the flesh.

Hebrews 13:2 Be not forgetful to entertain strangers: for thereby some have entertained angels unawares.

Christ as the Son of man (origin of birth ), the High apostle of our new faith entertained mankind for 33 years .Yet many knew him not

John 1:12 But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name:

Sons of God speaks of our new birth. . . "born of God" . It is not what we are as bodies of death . . . . but what we will be when we do receive the promise of the new incorruptible bodies not made up of corrupted flesh and blood.

Twice as two witness he emphasizes Sons of God as those born again the chaste virgin bride of Christ.

1 John 3:1 Behold, what manner of love the Father hath bestowed upon us, that we should be called the sons of God: therefore the world knoweth us not, because it knew him not.Beloved, now are we the sons of God, and it doth not yet appear what we shall be: but we know that, when he shall appear, we shall be like him; for we shall see him as he is.
 

Dino246

Senior Member
Jun 30, 2015
13,593
7,373
113
#30
I would offer heaven represents the space God has set aside as holy to represent different aspects of his gospel program.
So heaven represents the space God set aside to represent different aspects of His gospel program, but has no meaning on its own?

When God created heaven as space or media it was to display his work. It was in respect to heavens (plural). One heaven the space of the earth (life). Another outer-space used as metaphors in parables another heaven .
So the sun, moon, and stars are merely "metaphors in parables"? You can't see them in real life?

And the unseen holy place of faith called Holy of Hollies.
Why do you call the holy place of faith the "Holy of Holies" anyway? What Scripture tells you to call it that?

The unseen glory of God the third. God uses three to represent the end of a matter.
How does three heavens "represent" the end of the matter? What matter?

Salvation is the work of God working in mankind. Those under the letter of the law death it pertains to those being delivered of their suffering, now in part when we do rest in Christ our Sabbath in whom we are yoked and with a future living hope of a eternal rest being delivered from the bodies of death giving us eternal never ending life. Death as to the letter of the law having been cast into the judgment of Christ .

The letter, death never rising again to condemn by corruption another new creation.
If this is your answer to my questions, "What does 'salvation' represent?" and "What does 'eternal life' represent?" then you haven't answered my questions, because I did not ask "What is 'salvation'?" or "What is 'eternal life'?"

What's your take on the question you asked ?
When I see that you have answered all four questions, I will provide my answers.
 

garee

Senior Member
Mar 28, 2016
14,120
1,331
113
#31
So heaven represents the space God set aside to represent different aspects of His gospel program, but has no meaning on its own?
Yes as levels of existence the seen and that not seen


So the sun, moon, and stars are merely "metaphors in parables"? You can't see them in real life?
Parables use the temporal things seen to represent to unseen will of God. The historical value is kind of neat. if visiting relics appeals as amusement .

yes you can see them two temporal corrupted time keepers.In the new order their will be no night.


Why do you call the holy place of faith the "Holy of Holies" anyway? What Scripture tells you to call it that?

The abomination of desolation that stood in the Holy Place of faith .That signified the unseen glory of God. it will not be revealed to this creation. The the veil was rent it exposed the nakedness of those who were walking by sight after what the eyes see.

Hebrews 9:8 The Holy Ghost this signifying, that the way into the holiest of all was not yet made manifest, while as the first tabernacle was yet standing:
How does three heavens "represent" the end of the matter? What matter?
Not heavens. The word three or a phrase used three times denotes the end of a matter. Three times the father gave Jesus the words as it is written . Strike three Satan is out of there . After the third day God began the corruption time clock. Switched on the flame day four.
If this is your answer to my questions, "What does 'salvation' represent?" and "What does 'eternal life' represent?" then you haven't answered my questions, because I did not ask "What is 'salvation'?" or "What is 'eternal life'?"


When I see that you have answered all four questions, I will provide my answers.
I have answered . Salvation is the work of God who gives eternal life. Did those answers fall short of what you understand? Do you understand more than he has revealed?
 

Dino246

Senior Member
Jun 30, 2015
13,593
7,373
113
#32
The abomination of desolation that stood in the Holy Place of faith .That signified the unseen glory of God.
The abomination of desolation signified the glory of God? Which Scripture passage tells you that?
 

miknik5

Senior Member
Jun 2, 2016
7,823
575
113
#34
I would suggest he fell when the time of reformation came. The veil was rent .The last days began . After the reformation, a time of great trouble never before or ever again. Prior Satan deceived the whole world that he was the God of the Jew alone .

Glorying in the corrupted flesh of mankind . The curtain was torn and revealed his nakedness . No fleshly face that mankind could look to .Therefore after that manner (the flesh ) he could not deceive the nations. Some think there will be a time period when there will be no sin under the Sun

And cast him into the bottomless pit, and shut him up, and set a seal upon him, that he should deceive the nations no more, till the thousand years should be fulfilled: and after that he must be loosed a little season. Revelation 20:3

Never again could he deceive the whole world in respect to Jewish flesh
Please review Revelation 12
 

miknik5

Senior Member
Jun 2, 2016
7,823
575
113
#35
Satan fell right from the beginning...he was supposed to be a guardian angel in the garden...he didn´t do his work, and he didn´t like his assignment...

Ezekiel 28
 

miknik5

Senior Member
Jun 2, 2016
7,823
575
113
#36
I would suggest he fell when the time of reformation came. The veil was rent .The last days began . After the reformation, a time of great trouble never before or ever again. Prior Satan deceived the whole world that he was the God of the Jew alone .

Glorying in the corrupted flesh of mankind . The curtain was torn and revealed his nakedness . No fleshly face that mankind could look to .Therefore after that manner (the flesh ) he could not deceive the nations. Some think there will be a time period when there will be no sin under the Sun

And cast him into the bottomless pit, and shut him up, and set a seal upon him, that he should deceive the nations no more, till the thousand years should be fulfilled: and after that he must be loosed a little season. Revelation 20:3

Never again could he deceive the whole world in respect to Jewish flesh
he sought to deceive everyone...not just the Jew...
In fact, even JESUS said to Peter...satan desires to sift you as wheat, but I have prayed that your faith not fail...
 

iamsoandso

Senior Member
Oct 6, 2011
4,810
613
113
#37
great falling away first from what,,,the Gospel is preached and believed and then fallen from?
 

miknik5

Senior Member
Jun 2, 2016
7,823
575
113
#38
Satan had already fallen by the time he got to the Garden of Eden: Ezekiel 28:12-16 "Son of man, take up a lamentation upon the king of Tyrus, and say unto him, Thus saith the Lord GOD; Thou sealest up the sum, full of wisdom, and perfect in beauty. Thou hast been in Eden the garden of God; every precious stone was thy covering, the sardius, topaz, and the diamond, the beryl, the onyx, and the jasper, the sapphire, the emerald, and the carbuncle, and gold: the workmanship of thy tabrets and of thy pipes was prepared in thee in the day that thou wast created. Thou art the anointed cherub that covereth; and I have set thee so: thou wast upon the holy mountain of God; thou hast walked up and down in the midst of the stones of fire. Thou wast perfect in thy ways from the day that thou wast created, till iniquity was found in thee. By the multitude of thy merchandise they have filled the midst of thee with violence, and thou hast sinned: therefore I will cast thee as profane out of the mountain of God: and I will destroy thee, O covering cherub, from the midst of the stones of fire."

This Lucifer, turned evil, can be none other than Satan. God was, and still is, casting Satan out of His government. The earth became desolate through gross mismanagement. God had obviously given Satan charge over all the earth, but the devil's rebellious ways brought about a major catastrophe that made an absolute mess of the planet.

God then re-created the world and removed Satan from his rulership and placed man in his stead. “And God blessed them [mankind], and God said unto them, be fruitful, and multiply, and replenish the earth, and subdue it: And have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over every living thing that moveth upon the earth” (Genesis 1:28).

The devil still rules the world system, but he now does it in an indirect way——by influencing man. God had given us the history of the world, as recorded in Genesis, only from the time that man entered into the picture. What had taken place on the earth, before this time, is not fully revealed nor relevant to what God is doing with mankind.
He was a covering angel....who was he supposed to be the guardian and covering angel to?
 

miknik5

Senior Member
Jun 2, 2016
7,823
575
113
#39
I would think because he has fallen signaled by when Christ spoke the words "it is finished" .Satan can no longer deceive all the nations of the world. In so much that God is a God of the Jews and not the Father of all nations. That somehow men must follow after their corrupted flesh that even Jesus informs us it profits for nothing, zero.

Religion in respect to the bible God written witness, lost it temporal face and has a better face of all Mankind. We are in the thousand years period. Thousand years represents a unknown . Christ will come like a thief in the night . We can watch by faith like Noah but lightning will flash from east to west. The Old things will not be remembered or ever come to mind . Death as to the letter of the law served the good pleasure of God. It Death by the letter will not raise and condemn through corruption another entire creation .

So then it is not that he is not deceiving the world (impossible) but deceiving them in that manner. Taking away the face of the antichrists.

The parable below

And cast him into the bottomless pit, and shut him up, and set a seal upon him, that he should deceive the nations no more, till the thousand years should be fulfilled: and after that he must be loosed a little season. Revelation 20:3
GOD calls all men to salvation in CHRIST JESUS....but not all men hear HIS VOICE....just as Jesus pointed out...

Not all men believe the GOSPEL...and in the end, men will either be found worshipping GOD as THEIR FATHER, or another father, who was always a liar....
 

biker

Well-known member
Apr 5, 2020
1,389
244
63
#40
He was a covering angel....who was he supposed to be the guardian and covering angel to?

The Ancient Hebrew texts called the Adversary the "Morning Star." We know from Revelations that Eshu (Yeshua-Jesus) said He was the "Bright and Morning Star." There are multiple theories out there claiming before Eshu became our Mediator, that the "Morning Star" was given this role. Isaiah explains that the "Morning Star" once walked through the fire and had a throne not far from God. And that each day when the Sons of God gathered, not only did they give homage to God, but also honored the "Morning Star." It was thus honor given unto the "Morning Star" that caused him to think he was equal to God. This caused him to recruit the third that eventually was cast down with him in his attempt to dethrone God.

Now, if this is true how Isaiah and other Prophets explain it, then the "Morning Star" (Adversary)(Satan) was more than just an Angel to guard the Garden or a covering Angel. He had enough pull in Heaven to recruit a 3rd of the Sons of God. I'd say that makes him more than just an Angel, but up there inline with Michael and Gabriel.