When are we saved ?

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T

throughfaith

Well-known member
#41
Aug 4, 2020
10,467
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#41
Truth7t7 said:
The scripture below clearly shows the 144,000 that are (Sealed) by the Holy Spirit during the tribulation, and added to the Church to preach the gospel.

Will you now create a new doctrine that God has different seals for his servants/believers to save your teaching in (Error) :)

Revelation 7:3KJV
3 Saying, Hurt not the earth, neither the sea, nor the trees, till we have sealed the servants of our God in their foreheads.

Revelation 22:4KJV
4 And they shall see his face; and his name shall be in their foreheads.

Ephesians 1:13KJV
13 In whom ye also trusted, after that ye heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation: in whom also after that ye believed, ye were sealed with that holy Spirit of promise,

Ephesians 4:30KJV
30 And grieve not the holy Spirit of God, whereby ye are sealed unto the day of redemption.
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Added to the ' church ' to preach the Gospel? with 144000 Jews? Where does it say they are sealed by the Holy Spirit until the day of redemption? . We know that being sealed is the indwelling Of the HS in Ephesians.
 
T

Truth7t7

Well-known member
#42
May 19, 2020
7,685
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#42
throughfaith said:
Added to the ' church ' to preach the Gospel? with 144000 Jews? Where does it say they are sealed by the Holy Spirit until the day of redemption? . We know that being sealed is the indwelling Of the HS in Ephesians.
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You are now running from the presented truth, the 144,000 (Servants) of God, are (Sealed) will you suggest that this is a (Different) seal than all servants of God, the Bible teaches only one seal, the Holy Spirit.

The scripture below clearly shows the 144,000 that are (Sealed) by the Holy Spirit during the tribulation, and added to the Church to preach the gospel.

Will you now create a new doctrine that God has different seals for his servants/believers to save your teaching in (Error) :)

Revelation 7:3KJV
3 Saying, Hurt not the earth, neither the sea, nor the trees, till we have sealed the servants of our God in their foreheads.

Revelation 22:4KJV
4 And they shall see his face; and his name shall be in their foreheads.

Ephesians 1:13KJV
13 In whom ye also trusted, after that ye heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation: in whom also after that ye believed, ye were sealed with that holy Spirit of promise,

Ephesians 4:30KJV
30 And grieve not the holy Spirit of God, whereby ye are sealed unto the day of redemption.
 
T

throughfaith

Well-known member
#43
Aug 4, 2020
10,467
1,593
113
#43
Truth7t7 said:
The scripture below clearly shows the 144,000 that are (Sealed) by the Holy Spirit during the tribulation, and added to the Church to preach the gospel.

Will you now create a new doctrine that God has different seals for his servants/believers to save your teaching in (Error) :)

Revelation 7:3KJV
3 Saying, Hurt not the earth, neither the sea, nor the trees, till we have sealed the servants of our God in their foreheads.

Revelation 22:4KJV
4 And they shall see his face; and his name shall be in their foreheads.

Ephesians 1:13KJV
13 In whom ye also trusted, after that ye heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation: in whom also after that ye believed, ye were sealed with that holy Spirit of promise,

Ephesians 4:30KJV
30 And grieve not the holy Spirit of God, whereby ye are sealed unto the day of redemption.
Click to expand...
3Saying, Hurt not the earth, neither the sea, nor the trees, till we have sealed the servants of our God in their foreheads . Rev 7
1¶And I looked, and, lo, a Lamb stood on the mount Sion, and with him an hundred forty and four thousand, having his Father's name written in their foreheads.
This is not the same as being indwelt by the Holy Spirit, sealed untl the day of redemption?
 
T

throughfaith

Well-known member
#44
Aug 4, 2020
10,467
1,593
113
#44
Truth7t7 said:
You are now running from the presented truth, the 144,000 (Servants) of God, are (Sealed) will you suggest that this is a (Different) seal than all servants of God, the Bible teaches only one seal, the Holy Spirit.

The scripture below clearly shows the 144,000 that are (Sealed) by the Holy Spirit during the tribulation, and added to the Church to preach the gospel.

Will you now create a new doctrine that God has different seals for his servants/believers to save your teaching in (Error) :)

Revelation 7:3KJV
3 Saying, Hurt not the earth, neither the sea, nor the trees, till we have sealed the servants of our God in their foreheads.

Revelation 22:4KJV
4 And they shall see his face; and his name shall be in their foreheads.

Ephesians 1:13KJV
13 In whom ye also trusted, after that ye heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation: in whom also after that ye believed, ye were sealed with that holy Spirit of promise,

Ephesians 4:30KJV
30 And grieve not the holy Spirit of God, whereby ye are sealed unto the day of redemption.
Click to expand...
They have a mark in there foreheads by God ?
 
T

throughfaith

Well-known member
#45
Aug 4, 2020
10,467
1,593
113
#45
Truth7t7 said:
You are now running from the presented truth, the 144,000 (Servants) of God, are (Sealed) will you suggest that this is a (Different) seal than all servants of God, the Bible teaches only one seal, the Holy Spirit.

The scripture below clearly shows the 144,000 that are (Sealed) by the Holy Spirit during the tribulation, and added to the Church to preach the gospel.

Will you now create a new doctrine that God has different seals for his servants/believers to save your teaching in (Error) :)

Revelation 7:3KJV
3 Saying, Hurt not the earth, neither the sea, nor the trees, till we have sealed the servants of our God in their foreheads.

Revelation 22:4KJV
4 And they shall see his face; and his name shall be in their foreheads.

Ephesians 1:13KJV
13 In whom ye also trusted, after that ye heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation: in whom also after that ye believed, ye were sealed with that holy Spirit of promise,

Ephesians 4:30KJV
30 And grieve not the holy Spirit of God, whereby ye are sealed unto the day of redemption.
Click to expand...
Things different are not the same .
 
T

throughfaith

Well-known member
#46
Aug 4, 2020
10,467
1,593
113
#46
throughfaith said:
Things different are not the same .
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So everytime the word ' seal ' shows up ,its the Holy Spirit ?
1¶And I saw in the right hand of him that sat on the throne a book written within and on the backside, sealed with seven seals.
2And I saw a strong angel proclaiming with a loud voice, Who is worthy to open the book, and to loose the seals thereof? here ?

So they went, and made the sepulchre sure, sealing the stone, and setting a watch. here ?
 
E

eternally-gratefull

Guest
#47
#47
throughfaith said:
1 cor 1 .21 says otherwise .
.
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Welp there you go folks,

this person believes you can have mere belief, because you have never fully repented, say some sinners prayer or something and your saved eternally.

so not only is his war with calvinism tainted his thinking, he also is a true easy believist
 
T

Truth7t7

Well-known member
#48
May 19, 2020
7,685
2,492
113
#48
throughfaith said:
Things different are not the same .
Click to expand...
You have stated the Holy Spirit is removed during the tribulation, your claim is false.

The 144,000 preach the (Everlasting Gospel) you think they will do this without the Holy Spirit, Big Smiles!

Revelation 14:4-6KJV
4 These are they which were not defiled with women; for they are virgins. These are they which follow the Lamb whithersoever he goeth. These were redeemed from among men, being the firstfruits unto God and to the Lamb.
5 And in their mouth was found no guile: for they are without fault before the throne of God.
6 And I saw another angel fly in the midst of heaven, having the everlasting gospel to preach unto them that dwell on the earth, and to every nation, and kindred, and tongue, and people,

You can only come to salvation by being born of the Holy Spirit, that includes during the tribulation.

John 3:5KJV
5 Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.

Those seen below are saved believers, that have come out of the great tribulation.

Revelation 7:13-14KJV
13 And one of the elders answered, saying unto me, What are these which are arrayed in white robes? and whence came they?
14 And I said unto him, Sir, thou knowest. And he said to me, These are they which came out of great tribulation, and have washed their robes, and made them white in the blood of the Lamb.
 
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eternally-gratefull

Guest
#49
#49
49 said:
Am done with you and your self-righteous attitude. Am sure you must be a real joy to hang out with...
Not attacking you...am confronting you. In another thread, you accused an individual of being a child (keep it on the playground). You, sir, seem to be like the school ground bully here. Am praying for you....
And with THAT...will have no further dialogue with you. Not worth risking...
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I think it is time for us to put him on ignore, he has one mission here, and it’s time to stop feeding him.
 
T

throughfaith

Well-known member
#52
Aug 4, 2020
10,467
1,593
113
#52
eternally-gratefull said:
Welp there you go folks,

this person believes you can have mere belief, because you have never fully repented, say some sinners prayer or something and your saved eternally.

so not only is his war with calvinism tainted his thinking, he also is a true easy believist
Click to expand...
Good grief. Again can we stick to the bible please . Is 1cor 1.21 not true then ?
 
J

John146

Senior Member
#53
Jan 13, 2016
16,638
3,533
113
#53
throughfaith said:
Good grief. Again can we stick to the bible please . Is 1cor 1.21 not true then ?
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I'm pretty sure we are called believers in Scripture...

Acts 16:
30 And brought them out, and said, Sirs, what must I do to be saved?
31 And they said, Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, and thou shalt be saved, and thy house.
 
T

throughfaith

Well-known member
#54
Aug 4, 2020
10,467
1,593
113
#54
Truth7t7 said:
You have stated the Holy Spirit is removed during the tribulation, your claim is false.

The 144,000 preach the (Everlasting Gospel) you think they will do this without the Holy Spirit, Big Smiles!

Revelation 14:4-6KJV
4 These are they which were not defiled with women; for they are virgins. These are they which follow the Lamb whithersoever he goeth. These were redeemed from among men, being the firstfruits unto God and to the Lamb.
5 And in their mouth was found no guile: for they are without fault before the throne of God.
6 And I saw another angel fly in the midst of heaven, having the everlasting gospel to preach unto them that dwell on the earth, and to every nation, and kindred, and tongue, and people,

You can only come to salvation by being born of the Holy Spirit, that includes during the tribulation.

John 3:5KJV
5 Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.

Those seen below are saved believers, that have come out of the great tribulation.

Revelation 7:13-14KJV
13 And one of the elders answered, saying unto me, What are these which are arrayed in white robes? and whence came they?
14 And I said unto him, Sir, thou knowest. And he said to me, These are they which came out of great tribulation, and have washed their robes, and made them white in the blood of the Lamb.
Click to expand...
The Holy spirit is with the believers during the church and leaves with these
Truth7t7 said:
You have stated the Holy Spirit is removed during the tribulation, your claim is false.

The 144,000 preach the (Everlasting Gospel) you think they will do this without the Holy Spirit, Big Smiles!

Revelation 14:4-6KJV
4 These are they which were not defiled with women; for they are virgins. These are they which follow the Lamb whithersoever he goeth. These were redeemed from among men, being the firstfruits unto God and to the Lamb.
5 And in their mouth was found no guile: for they are without fault before the throne of God.
6 And I saw another angel fly in the midst of heaven, having the everlasting gospel to preach unto them that dwell on the earth, and to every nation, and kindred, and tongue, and people,

You can only come to salvation by being born of the Holy Spirit, that includes during the tribulation.

John 3:5KJV
5 Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.

Those seen below are saved believers, that have come out of the great tribulation.

Revelation 7:13-14KJV
13 And one of the elders answered, saying unto me, What are these which are arrayed in white robes? and whence came they?
14 And I said unto him, Sir, thou knowest. And he said to me, These are they which came out of great tribulation, and have washed their robes, and made them white in the blood of the Lamb.
Click to expand...
This is why your not understanding. Your regeneration preceding faith belief ,'glasses' means you have to view certain texts a certain way . Do you think they are preaching 1cor 1.15 1-4 during the tribulation??
 
T

throughfaith

Well-known member
#55
Aug 4, 2020
10,467
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113
#55
throughfaith said:
The Holy spirit is with the believers during the church and leaves with these

This is why your not understanding. Your regeneration preceding faith belief ,'glasses' means you have to view certain texts a certain way . Do you think they are preaching 1cor 1.15 1-4 during the tribulation??
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Apart from John 3 used completely out of context .There is no verse that says regeneration precedes faith .
 
F

ForestGreenCook

Well-known member
#56
Jul 8, 2018
8,314
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#56
throughfaith said:
Unbelief condemns a person, not because it is an unforgiven sin, but because it is the exclusive point of access to the grace. (Rom. 5:2)

Christ’s life, not his death is what saves. (Rom. 5:10; 1 Cor. 15:17)
Sinner is saved by regeneration, not atonement. (Tit. 3:5)

Glorification is what’s limited, not atonement. (Rom. 3:23; 8:17-30)

When Christ said, “It is finished,” on the cross, everyone was still in their sins as per 1 Cor. 15:17.

Atonement is one component of many components in salvation. It alone is not what saves. (Tit. 3:5; Rom. 5:10)

Atonement is a prerequisite for salvation, not the execution of it. (Rom. 5, 8; 2 Cor. 5; Tit. 3:5).

The Atonement must be received. (Rom. 5:11, 17; Jn. 1:12; 1 Cor. 15:1-4)

The Atonement does not glorify anyone. (Rom. 8)

What Calvinists call “the golden chain of redemption” contains no direct reference to the atonement. (Rom. 8:29-30)

Belief that salvation for anyone was secured on the cross constitutes a denial of the necessity of the resurrection (1 Cor. 15:17)

Salvation is eternally secured by the sealing of the spirit, not “election.” (Eph. 1:13-14; 4:30; 2 Cor. 1:22)

There is no sealing of the spirit before Pentecost or after the harpazo of the church. (Eph. 4:30; John 14:17; Heb. 6:4-6; 10:26-29)

thoughts ?
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Belief is not the cause of being saved (delivered) but a product of already having been saved. In the new birth we are quickened together with Christ. Eph 2:5. We are in him, and he is in us. 2 Tim 2:13, If we believe not, yet he abideth faithful, he cannot deny himself.
 
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throughfaith

Well-known member
#58
Aug 4, 2020
10,467
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#58
ForestGreenCook said:
Belief is not the cause of being saved (delivered) but a product of already having been saved. In the new birth we are quickened together with Christ. Eph 2:5. We are in him, and he is in us. 2 Tim 2:13, If we believe not, yet he abideth faithful, he cannot deny himself.
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Yet no verse says we are born again before we believe . Yes I know John 3 is stretched to fit ,but seriously this is Absent in the text . It comes as a huge shock to anyone who has read the bible that a certain group teaches ' regeneration precedes faith ' . R c Sprouls testimony is a great example . Calvinism should be rejected on this teaching alone . Let alone Lordship salvation.
 
F

ForestGreenCook

Well-known member
#59
Jul 8, 2018
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#59
Truth7t7 said:
In A Nutshell (y)

Romans 10:9-10KJV
9 That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved.
10 For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation.
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Saved, salvation, in Greek = delivered, deliverance. We are delivered eternally, and we are delivered, as we sojourn here in this world.

For instance; When we have been born again, and commit a sin, we lose our fellowship, temporary, until we repent and God forgives us, which brings a deliverance that we receive, as we sojourn here in this world. The "believing", and "confessing" are the products of already having been born again, not the cause of being born again.

The natural man, 1 Cor 2:14, cannot discern the things of the Spirit, and would never believe, and confess, spiritual things, and even thinks them to be foolishness.
 
E

eternally-gratefull

Guest
#60
#60
John146 said:
I'm pretty sure we are called believers in Scripture...

Acts 16:
30 And brought them out, and said, Sirs, what must I do to be saved?
31 And they said, Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, and thou shalt be saved, and thy house.
Click to expand...
The passage he used says belief in the english, but In the greek. The word is used in the sense that one hs confidence in something, one trusts,one has faith it is not mere belief

but its ok. You all just go on and prove you believe in easy believism. That one can say a sinners pray void any. True repentance and faith and be saved
 
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