When did 'Christians' adopt Sunday as their weekly Sabbath?

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tanakh

Senior Member
Dec 1, 2015
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#81
Just in case anyone new to learning about God believes this -- don't. Feel free to check out why yourself.
People who do not practice Judaism but worship on the Sabbath do not keep it properly anyway. How many start at Sunset
on Friday and not travel more than a mile? How many go shopping and cook on the Sabbath, or do anything that constitutes 'work' according to the Law? As Paul said if you follow the law you have to keep it all, not cherry pick just the bits you like. There is not one place in the NT that states that Gentiles must keep the Sabbath Day.
 

Grandpa

Senior Member
Jun 24, 2011
11,551
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#82
Praise God we are not under law. Born in Grace.
Most people can't believe we are not under the 10 commandments. They can't fathom it.

They try to separate the old law into sections and say we are not under this section but we are under this other section.


What we find out when we come to Christ is that the 10 commandments are a spiritual law. They are a description of the work of the Holy Spirit. They can't be fulfilled by our will and strength but only by the will and strength of Christ in us.

The 10 commandments written on stone are a shadow of the Love that is written on our Hearts. The rest that is given to us by Grace through Faith. The fulfillment of being the workmanship of God.

Ephesians 2:10 For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them.
 

p_rehbein

Senior Member
Sep 4, 2013
30,287
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#83
Didn't read all the comments, but I hope someone pointed out that there are numerous kinds of Sabbaths for numerous reasons in the Old Testament.......

Those of us who practice Sunday Worship Services do so not as our Sabbath, but as the day set aside to worship God. As the early Church gathered on the first day of the week, so do we........
 
J

Jeffry

Guest
#84
From tanakh: People who do not practice Judaism but worship on the Sabbath do not keep it properly anyway. How many start at Sunset on Friday[?]... All who follow Christ's example do, tanakh. It's part of the Sabbath commandment; part of the "spiritual [mental attitude] law", as mentioned by Paul in Rom. 7:14.

An important aside here, tanakh: God's chosen people and Sabbaths were not/are not/have never been "Jewish". God's laws were given to ISRAEL, all 12 tribes (of course including Judah). When you start with such a false premise as you do, tanakh, then everything you base on it will be wrong as well.

and not travel more than a mile. That's part of the "Law of Moses", tanakh, and not even a legitimate part. It one of many which were added to the ritual L of M by the Scribes and Pharisees, to strengthen their own position$. Such totally bogus "additions" to God's laws are what caused Yeshua to angrily expose them in public: "'Hypocrites!",[He said]... These people [Sc&Ph] draw near to Me with their mouth... but their heart is far from Me. And in vain they worship Me, TEACHING AS DOCTRINES THE COMMANDMENTS OF MEN'" (Mat. 14:7-9) (NKJV). (You haven't really studied this "Sabbath" subject much at all, have you, tanakh?)
How many go shopping and cook on the Sabbath, or do anything that constitutes 'work' according to the Law?
The people of God's church have always had what is called "the preparation day" before each of God's Sabbaths, tanakh... plenty of time to finish up shopping and food preparation so the Sabbath will be physically restful as well.
As Paul said if you follow the law you have to keep it all, not cherry pick just the bits you like.
Since you don't know the difference between God's way of life (the "spiritual law" [Rom. 7:14]... His Ten Commandments) and the physical rituals given to ancient, un-spiritual, Israel (including Judah), I'll skip this one for now.

There is not one place in the NT that states that Gentiles must keep the Sabbath Day.
"The Sabbath was made for MAN", not "The Sabbath was made for Israel" (or Judah).

The 10 Commandments were given on stone, tanakh, because they are a PERMANENT LAW. It will never be ok with God's Family to kill, steal, commit adultery, ignore the Sabbath days, dishonor their parents, or to break any of the rest of the ten.

And tanakh-- Would you PLEASE read Deut. 31:24-26... and BELIEVE IT? You'll see that the ritual "Law of Moses" was dictated by the Eternal and then written down by Moses "IN A BOOK" (perishable), not on tablets of stone. These are the physical, ritual "works (
Greek: "ergon"... physical labor) of the law" which the Apostles taught Jews and Gentiles alike were now "done away" since God's Own spirit was made available to man at the foundation of His New Covenant church.


 
A

ATH1

Guest
#85
The catholics changed it from sat to sun. The pope did it to show he has say over God.
 
J

Jeffry

Guest
#86
Praise God we are not under law. Born in Grace.
Hi gotime-- The "grace" (favor, undeserved kindness - STRONG'S) that Christians can inherit is a PARDON that we humans don't deserve; from the "second death" (final death) of Rev. 20:6 (NIV). Why we don't deserve it: "The wages of sin is death" and "For all have sinned, and fall short of the glory of God." So the penalty is something we have each brought on our own selves.

We have to qualify by repenting [Acts 2:38]. Nowhere does the Bible say that we're "Born in Grace", as you have indicated. This Biblical "grace" is the application of Jesus' death in place of the one we have earned for ourselves by sinning - breaking the commandments of God. And if we're "not under law" (as you've also indicated) then we're free to do anything we want - no consequences - no matter how greedy it may be, and no matter whom it might hurt. That is NOT what Christ taught, gotime. That would be anarchy.
 
J

Jeffry

Guest
#87
Hi rehbein-- Do you have any idea who was the "LORD" of the Old Testament?
 
C

Chuckt

Guest
#88
Chuckt;

Thank you for your two lengthy posts. I appreciate you going through that length. But it seems there is nothing in that post that addressed my post to you. Here again:

I am really interested in your direct address to my above post. Thank you.
Hi Samie,

The Good shepherd appeared on Sundays. I have stated this before. Let me state it again:

Sabbatarianism

”The Sabbath was made for man, and not man for the Sabbath” (Mark 2:27).
The point which Jesus made is that the Sabbath was not instituted to enslave people, but to benefit them.
according to Colossians 2:17, the Sabbath was “a shadow of things to come, but the substance is of Christ.”
The Sabbath observance was associated with redemption in Deuteronomy 5:15
The spirit of Sabbath observance is continued in the NT observance of rest and worship on the first day of the week (which is Sunday).
New Testament believers are not under the OT Law (Rom. 6:14; Gal. 3:24-25).
The early church was given the pattern of Sunday worship by His resurrection on the first day of the week (Matt. 28:1)
His continued appearances on succeeding Sundays (John 20:26), and the descent of the Holy Spirit on Sunday (Acts 2:1)
the early church was given the pattern of Sunday worship. This they did regularly (Acts 20:7; 1 Cor. 16:2).
Sunday worship was further hallowed by our Lord who appeared to John in that last great vision on “the Lord’s Day” (Rev. 1:10).

It is for these reasons that Christians worship on Sunday, rather than on the Jewish Sabbath.
(quotes by Dr. Norman Geisler)

"Let no man therefore judge you, in meat, or in drink, or in respect of an holyday, or of the new moon, or of the sabbath days:"-Colossians 2:16

"..no man is justified by the LAW in the sight of God.."-Galatians 3:11
"..the law was our schoolmaster.." (Gal 3:24) and "..we are no longer under a schoolmaster.." Gal 3:25
God blotted out the ordinances and nailed it to Jesus' cross (Colossians 2:14) see Heb. 7:12
 

TMS

Senior Member
Mar 21, 2015
3,590
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#89
Jas 2:8 If ye fulfil the royal law according to the scripture, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself, ye do well:
Jas 2:9 But if ye have respect to persons, ye commit sin, and are convinced of the law as transgressors.
Jas 2:10 For whosoever shall keep the whole law, and yet offend in one point, he is guilty of all.
Jas 2:11 For he that said, Do not commit adultery, said also, Do not kill. Now if thou commit no adultery, yet if thou kill, thou art become a transgressor of the law.
Jas 2:12 So speak ye, and so do, as they that shall be judged by the law of liberty.

1Jn 3:4 Whosoever committeth sin transgresseth also the law: for sin is the transgression of the law.


Rom 3:20 Therefore by the deeds of the law there shall no flesh be justified in his sight: for by the law is the knowledge of sin.
Rom 5:13 (For until the law sin was in the world: but sin is not imputed when there is no law. (There must have been a law)
Rom 5:14 Nevertheless death reigned from Adam to Moses, even over them that had not sinned after the similitude of Adam's
Rom 5:20 Moreover the law entered, that the offence might abound (G4119 to do, make or be more, that is, increase; by extension to superabound). But where sin abounded, grace did much more abound:
Rom 5:21 That as sin hath reigned unto death, even so might grace reign through righteousness unto eternal life by Jesus Christ our Lord. (Amen)
Rom 6:1 What shall we say then? Shall we continue in sin(transgression of the law), that grace may abound?
Rom 6:2 God forbid. How shall we, that are dead to sin, live any longer therein?
Rom 6:14 For sin shall not have dominion over you: for ye are not under the law, but under grace.


Rom 6:15 What then? shall we sin (transgress the law), because we are not under the law, but under grace? God forbid.
Rom 6:16 Know ye not, that to whom ye yield yourselves servants to obey, his servants ye are to whom ye obey; whether of sin unto death, or of obedience unto righteousness?
Rom 7:7 What shall we say then? Is the law sin? God forbid. Nay, I had not known sin, but by the law: for I had not known lust, except the law had said, Thou shalt not covet. (one of the ten)
Rom 7:8 But sin, taking occasion by the commandment, wrought in me all manner of concupiscence. For without the law sin was dead.
Rom 7:9 For I was alive without the law once: but when the commandment came, sin revived, and I died.
Rom 7:10 And the commandment, which was ordained to life, I found to be unto death. (points out that we are sinners)
Rom 7:11 For sin, taking occasion by the commandment, deceived me, and by it slew me.
Rom 7:12 Wherefore the law is holy, and the commandment holy, and just, and good.
Rom 7:13 Was then that which is good made death unto me? God forbid. But sin, that it might appear sin, working death in me by that which is good; that sin by the commandment might become exceeding sinful.
Rom 7:14 For we know that the law is spiritual: but I am carnal, sold under sin.




By grace, through faith we are freed from death, (the result of transgressing the law). We might not be under the judgement of the law because of what Jesus done for us (took our place), as the perfect lamb without sin, but that doesn't give us license to sin. I obey not to be saved but because i am saved in Christ and because the Law is holy, and just, and good. Joh 14:15 If ye love me, keep my commandments.
 
J

Jeffry

Guest
#90
And Grandpa tops himself with:
"The 10 commandments written on stone are a shadow of the Love that is written on our Hearts..."
"A wet bird never flies at night." (Jackie Mason 3:16) (Not the Bible either).

Dear Grandpa-- Find me one place in the Scriptures, in either testament, in any
covenant, any place at all that agrees w/your "10 commandments" statement, and I'll buy you a dancing, blue elephant. "Stone shadows"? That's a beaut!:cool:

 
J

Jeffry

Guest
#91
From Chuckt:

Hi Samie,

The Good shepherd appeared on Sundays. I have stated this before. Let me state it again:

Sabbatarianism

”The Sabbath was made for man, and not man for the Sabbath” (Mark 2:27).
The point which Jesus made is that the Sabbath was not instituted to enslave people, but to benefit them"
Why then, chuckt, would you think that Jesus did away with something which He instituted for our benefit? He makes no such declaration in the Scriptures. Neither do His appointed Apostles. But you do, and with no Biblical authority at all.

"Should I believe chuckt or should I believe Christ, when they don't agree?" should not a hard question to answer. Why so for you?

And where on earth did you get "
The Good shepherd appeared on Sundays."​?

 
C

Chuckt

Guest
#92
From Chuckt:

Hi Samie,

The Good shepherd appeared on Sundays. I have stated this before. Let me state it again:

Sabbatarianism

”The Sabbath was made for man, and not man for the Sabbath” (Mark 2:27).
The point which Jesus made is that the Sabbath was not instituted to enslave people, but to benefit them"
Why then, chuckt, would you think that Jesus did away with something which He instituted for our benefit? He makes no such declaration in the Scriptures. Neither do His appointed Apostles. But you do, and with no Biblical authority at all.

"Should I believe chuckt or should I believe Christ, when they don't agree?" should not a hard question to answer. Why so for you?

And where on earth did you get "
The Good shepherd appeared on Sundays."​?

Jeffrey,

There is no Biblical quotation in your post so I'm not going to bother with it.
I posted my reasons so I hope you would objectively deal with it.

Chuck
 

TMS

Senior Member
Mar 21, 2015
3,590
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Australia
#93
Mat_28:1 In the end of the sabbath, as it began to dawn toward the first day of the week, came Mary Magdalene and the other Mary to see the sepulchre.
Mar_16:2 And very early in the morning the first day of the week, they came unto the sepulchre at the rising of the sun.
Mar_16:9 Now when Jesus was risen early the first day of the week, he appeared first to Mary Magdalene, out of whom he had cast seven devils.
Luk_24:1 Now upon the first day of the week, very early in the morning, they came unto the sepulchre, bringing the spices which they had prepared, and certain others with them.
Joh_20:1 The first day of the week cometh Mary Magdalene early, when it was yet dark, unto the sepulchre, and seeth the stone taken away from the sepulchre.
Joh_20:19 Then the same day at evening, being the first day of the week, when the doors were shut where the disciples were assembled for fear of the Jews, came Jesus and stood in the midst, and saith unto them, Peace be unto you.
Act_20:7 And upon the first day of the week, when the disciples came together to break bread, Paul preached unto them, ready to depart on the morrow; and continued his speech until midnight.
1Co_16:2 Upon the first day of the week let every one of you lay by him in store, as God hath prospered him, that there be no gatherings when I come.

These verses are all i could find for the "first day" of the week in the NT, but so far i can't find any reason to change the Sabbath to Sunday or any command from God to change the day. Sure Jesus rose early Sunday but that doesn't mean that the Sabbath was changed, (He died on Friday and rested on the Sabbath and rose on Sunday).
If your will(law) is to be changed it needs to be done before you die, Jesus clearly set up the ordinance service and the foot washing before he died. He didn't change the Sabbath day.
 
J

Jeffry

Guest
#94
From Chuckt:

Hi Samie,

The Good shepherd appeared on Sundays. I have stated this before. Let me state it again:

Sabbatarianism

”The Sabbath was made for man, and not man for the Sabbath” (Mark 2:27).
The point which Jesus made is that the Sabbath was not instituted to enslave people, but to benefit them"
Why then, chuckt, would you think that Jesus did away with something which He instituted for our benefit? He makes no such declaration in the Scriptures. Neither do His appointed Apostles. But you do, and with no Biblical authority at all.

"Should I believe chuckt or should I believe Christ, when they don't agree?" should not a hard question to answer. Why so for you?

And where on earth did you get "
The Good shepherd appeared on Sundays."​?

It appears you're not ready to answer anything for which you haven't already copied someone else's answer, Chuck. I guess that explains why your "answers" ("non-answers") are so frequently and completely off-topic. Re-Copy-Pasting acres and acres of Bible verses requires no understanding. It just shows that you can do it. Sorry to have put you on the spot with actual questions about why you believe what you believe.

"...Always be ready to give a defense to everyone who asks you a reason for the hope that is in you, with meekness and fear;" (1Ptr. 3:15) (NKJV).
 

Grandpa

Senior Member
Jun 24, 2011
11,551
3,189
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#95
And Grandpa tops himself with:
"The 10 commandments written on stone are a shadow of the Love that is written on our Hearts..."
"A wet bird never flies at night." (Jackie Mason 3:16) (Not the Bible either).

Dear Grandpa-- Find me one place in the Scriptures, in either testament, in any
covenant, any place at all that agrees w/your "10 commandments" statement, and I'll buy you a dancing, blue elephant. "Stone shadows"? That's a beaut!:cool:

Colossians 2:16-17
[SUP]16 [/SUP]Let no man therefore judge you in meat, or in drink, or in respect of an holyday, or of the new moon, or of the sabbath days:
[SUP]17 [/SUP]Which are a shadow of things to come; but the body is of Christ.

Hebrews 10:1 For the law having a shadow of good things to come, and not the very image of the things, can never with those sacrifices which they offered year by year continually make the comers thereunto perfect.

Hebrews 10:16-17

[SUP]16 [/SUP]This is the covenant that I will make with them after those days, saith the Lord, I will put my laws into their hearts, and in their minds will I write them;
[SUP]17 [/SUP]And their sins and iniquities will I remember no more.

2 Corinthians 3:6-8

[SUP]6 [/SUP]Who also hath made us able ministers of the new testament; not of the letter, but of the spirit: for the letter killeth, but the spirit giveth life.

[SUP]7 [/SUP]But if the ministration of death, written and engraven in stones, was glorious, so that the children of Israel could not stedfastly behold the face of Moses for the glory of his countenance; which glory was to be done away:

[SUP]8 [/SUP]How shall not the ministration of the spirit be rather glorious?


I don't really want a dancing blue elephant.

I just want you to read the New Testament and ask for the wisdom, knowledge and Revelation of Christ, if it is His Will.
 

valiant

Senior Member
Mar 22, 2015
8,025
124
63
#96
And Grandpa tops himself with:
"The 10 commandments written on stone are a shadow of the Love that is written on our Hearts..."
"A wet bird never flies at night." (Jackie Mason 3:16) (Not the Bible either).

Dear Grandpa-- Find me one place in the Scriptures, in either testament, in any
covenant, any place at all that agrees w/your "10 commandments" statement, and I'll buy you a dancing, blue elephant. "Stone shadows"? That's a beaut!:cool:

2 Corinthians 3.7 if the ministration of death written and engraved on stones

only the ten commands were written and engraven on stones at the time when Moses face shone
 
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A

ATH1

Guest
#97
Thank you Jeffrey, sounds like we are like-minded people.

humbly...allan
 

valiant

Senior Member
Mar 22, 2015
8,025
124
63
#98
Act_20:7 And upon the first day of the week, when the disciples came together to break bread, Paul preached unto them, ready to depart on the morrow; and continued his speech until midnight.

That demonstrates quite clearly that they met on the first day of the week and not the Sabbath. And it was in a seven day period yet the Sabbath isn't even mentioned

THAT is why we meet on 1st day of the week. Constantine is a red herring.
 

prove-all

Senior Member
May 16, 2014
5,977
400
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#99
Act_20:7 And upon the first day of the week, when the disciples came together to break bread, Paul preached unto them, ready to depart on the morrow; and continued his speech until midnight.

That demonstrates quite clearly that they met on the first day of the week and not the Sabbath. And it was in a seven day period yet the Sabbath isn't even mentioned

THAT is why we meet on 1st day of the week. Constantine is a red herring.
this verse was explained in this post
http://christianchat.com/bible-disc...unday-their-weekly-sabbath-4.html#post2484624


that verse explains what happened on that first work day of the week, after the Sabbath had past.


why does the bible record " the days of unleavened bread " the verse before?

this was just after [dark] gathered to "eat a meal", not a morning sunrise service.

the tomb was found empty before it was light, why sunrise observence facing east today?
 

prove-all

Senior Member
May 16, 2014
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Re: the handwriting of requirements

the handwriting of requirements


"And you, being dead in your trespasses and the uncircumcision of your flesh,
He has made alive together with Him, having forgiven you all trespasses,
having wiped out the handwriting of requirements that was against us,

which was contrary to us. And He has taken it out of the way,
having nailed it to the cross".

the last chapter of the last book of the Bible teaches:

"Blessed are those who do His commandments, that they may have the right to
the tree of life, and may enter through the gates into the city" (Revelation 22:14).

Since it is only "those who do His commandments...{who} have the right
to enter...the city" , the ten commandments could not be "contrary to us."

Actually, it is only those who will not keep the ten commandments that are denied access.
Revelation specifically shows that those who break one of at least four of
the ten commandments will be outside God's city (Revelation 22:15).

the ten commandments were not "nailed to the cross," what was?
Look again at what the Bible actually says (two translations):

14 having wiped out the handwriting of requirements that was against us,
which was contrary to us. And He has taken it out of the way,
having nailed it to the cross (Colossians 2:14, NKJV)

14 having canceled out the certificate of debt consisting of decrees against us,
which was hostile to us; and He has taken it out of the way,
having nailed it to the cross.. (Colossians 2:14, NASB)


The handwriting of requirements (often also called the hand-writing of ordinances)
or certificate of debt was wiped away and nailed to the stake, which some call a cross

Which requirements were wiped out?

the expression "the handwriting of requirements" (cheirógrafon toís dógmasin)
is a Greek legal expression that signifies the penalty which a lawbreaker had to pay

--it does not signify the laws that are to be obeyed--only the penalty. It is only through
the acceptance of the sacrifice of Jesus Christ that the penalty was wiped out
("the handwriting of requirements").

But only the penalty, not the law!

Even some Protestant commentators realize this is so.
Notice what Matthew Henry's Commentary on the Whole Bible states about Colossians 2:14:

Whatever was in force against us is taken out of the way. He has obtained for us
a legal discharge from the hand-writing of ordinances, which was against us (v. 14),
which may be understood,

1. Of that obligation to punishment in which consists the guilt of sin. The curse of the law is
the hand-writing against us, like the hand-writing on Belshazzar's wall. Cursed is every one
who continues not in every thing. This was a hand-writing which was against us, and contrary
to us; for it threatened our eternal ruin.

This was removed when he redeemed us from the curse of the law, being made a curse for us,
Gal 3:13. (from Matthew Henry's Commentary on the Whole Bible: New Modern Edition,
Electronic Database. Copyright (c) 1991 by Hendrickson Publishers, Inc.).

In addition, let us look at the Greek term exaleipho translated as "wiped out" in Colossians 2:14:

NT:1813
exaleipho (ex-al-i'-fo); from NT:1537 and NT:218; to smear out, i.e. obliterate (erase tears,
figuratively, pardon sin) (Biblesoft's New Exhaustive Strong's Numbers and Concordance
with Expanded Greek-Hebrew Dictionary. Copyright (c) 1994, Biblesoft and International
Bible Translators, Inc.)


In other words, exaleipho has to do with wiping out sin. This is also confirmed in Acts 3:19
where Peter also uses the term exaleipho, which is translated as "blotted out" below:

19 Repent therefore and be converted, that your sins may be blotted out,
so that times of refreshing may come from the presence of the Lord.

Hence, it is sin and the related penalties that are to be blotted or wiped out.
And the penalties could vary from "being unclean to the evening" (Leviticus 11:24-28)
to making an offering (Leviticus 5:5-6) to being "cut off from his people" (Leviticus 7:27)
to the death penalty (Exodus 31:14).

This is also confirmed elsewhere in the New Testament:

13 Christ has redeemed us from the curse of the law, having become a curse for us
(Galatians 3:13). The curse of the law is related to the penalty. And Jesus paid it.

But what about the law of God? Was the law of God to be wiped out? No:

17 "Do not think that I came to destroy the Law or the Prophets.
I did not come to destroy but to fulfill (Matthew 5:17)


While some erroneously think that Jesus, for example, did away with the Ten Commandments
by how He led His life, that most certainly was not the view of the early Christians who
continued to keep them[Paul included]

Furthermore, remember that the Bible clearly teaches that sin is lawlessness:

Whoever commits sin also commits lawlessness, and sin is lawlessness. And you know that
He was manifested to take away our sins, and in Him there is no sin. (I John 3:4-5).

Notice that Paul wrote:

Shall we continue in sin that grace may abound? Certainly not!
How shall we who died to sin live any longer in it? (Romans 6:1-2).

Thus the New Testament makes clear that the law of God continues,
thus it was not nailed to the cross or somehow wiped out.

The Bible, however, also shows that the requirements of the Levitical priesthood
(Hebrews 9:1,6-10) sometimes called the law, which were part of the penalty of sin,
were blotted out.

And why?

"For it is not possible that the blood of bulls and goats could take away sins...
By that will we have been sanctified through the offering of the body of Jesus
once for all" (Hebrews 10:4,10).

Jesus' one sacrifice was and is sufficient--we do not have to sacrifice animals any more!

Another requirement (which is related) would be the death penalty of sin,
as "the wages of sin is death, but the gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord"
(Romans 6:23) or other specific ceremonial penalties associated with the Old Testament
statutes (such as making a sin offering, being put outside the camp, or washing).