When did the corrupted world we live in become corrupted?

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Mar 23, 2016
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#41
Did God REALLY say? Is that your question? Do you really want to go there knowing God sees you and everything you say, do and think??
You stated in Post #31: "then Adam tells Eve they are not to eat of it OR TO TOUCH IT."

My only point was that we do not know what Adam told Eve concerning the tree of knowledge of good and evil.

All we know is what Eve said to the serpent (which may or may not have been what Adam told Eve).



 

Zmouth

Senior Member
Nov 21, 2012
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#42
Good defines who God is. Only God is good.
If one perceives that a good man out of the good treasure of the heart brings forth good things understanding that the righteousness of the perfect directs his ways, then thanks for the heads up regarding the things you say.

My only point was that we do not know what Adam told Eve concerning the tree of knowledge of good and evil.
So do you actually know that the LORD God said anything more than that which is written in Genesis 2:16?
And the LORD God commanded the man, saying, Of every tree of the garden thou mayest freely eat:
Since God made man, male and female, then how do you know whether it was the male or the female that the LORD God commanded.
And he answered and said unto them, Have ye not read, that he which made them at the beginning made them male and female,
Matt 19:4
Especially considering that the man whom the LORD God put in the garden could very well be the male and female since the they would no longer be two but one flesh.
And said, For this cause shall a man leave father and mother, and shall cleave to his wife: and they twain shall be one flesh? 6 Wherefore they are no more twain, but one flesh.
Matt 19:5-6

All we know is what Eve said to the serpent (which may or may not have been what Adam told Eve).
So is the Spirit subject to the Word or is the Word subject to the Spirit?

Since Eve is the mother of all living, are you born of the Spirit or the Word? [see Prov 23:25]










Ps 52:3
KJV
 

garee

Senior Member
Mar 28, 2016
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#43
Los ? (Get it - Los Angeles o_O)

You might consider that the reference to the earth in Job is referring unto the body of matter that forms the expanse of space of this
physical world that was created on the first night when God said let there be light, when the sons of God that shouted and the morning stars sang, in the day when God saw the light.

Who is this that darkeneth counsel by words without knowledge? Job 38:2

Have you ever seen a light above the brightness of the sun?

Gird up now thy loins like a man; for I will demand of thee, and answer thou me. Job 38:3

Or heard a voice without seeing a man?

Where wast thou when I laid the foundations of the earth? declare, if thou hast understanding. Job 38:4

Faith in the eternal comes by hearing and hearing by the immortal one; and you also shall bear witness, because you have been with me from the beginning, as you can see written in John 15:27.
Sons of light are angels as administering spirits it would to be part of all things needed to be in place before mankind was formed on day six.

On day three with three many time signifying the end of the matter it would seem it could of been then that he found pride in the lead angel Lucifer. Day four he switched on the light of the Sun and the moon the temporal to represent a now corrupted creation ticking toward the last day moaning in expectation of the new incorruptible creation .This is when in the new heaven and earth corruption will be made to no effect . And the glory of God like in the first three days will be the light.

Day four....
And God said, Let there be lights in the firmament of the heaven to divide the day from the night; and let them be for signs, and for seasons, and for days, and years: Genesis And let them be for lights in the firmament of the heaven to give light upon the earth: and it was so.Genesis 1:14 15

And I saw no temple therein: for the Lord God Almighty and the Lamb are the temple of it. And the city had no need of the sun, neither of the moon, to shine in it: for the glory of God did lighten it, and the Lamb is the light thereof. And the nations of them which are saved shall walk in the light of it: and the kings of the earth do bring their glory and honour into it.Revelation21:22-24

A beautiful parable is found in Revelation 12 to represent the bride of Christ signified in her wedding attire clothed with the glorious righteousness of Christ with the two temporal time under her feet to be with our husband Christ forever more.

Revelation 12 King James Version (KJV) And there appeared a great wonder in heaven; a woman clothed with the sun, and the moon under her feet, and upon her head a crown of twelve stars:And she being with child cried, travailing in birth, and pained to be delivered.
 

garee

Senior Member
Mar 28, 2016
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#44
So do you actually know that the LORD God said anything more than that which is written in Genesis 2:16?

And the LORD God commanded the man, saying, Of every tree of the garden thou mayest freely eat:
Since God made man, male and female, then how do you know whether it was the male or the female that the LORD God commanded.

And he answered and said unto them, Have ye not read, that he which made them at the beginning made them male and female,
Matt 19:4
Yes the commandment was to mankind (male and female) one creation, one breath of life per creation. No division in mankind. Male and female. Separately he made the rest of the beasts of the field formed from that dust. Mankind alone created in the image of one God

So God created man in his own image, in the image of God created he him; male and female created he them. Genesis 1: 27
 

garee

Senior Member
Mar 28, 2016
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#45
If one perceives that a good man out of the good treasure of the heart brings forth good things understanding that the righteousness of the perfect directs his ways, then thanks for the heads up regarding the things you say.
Great point and a way of introducing it. Thanks
 
Mar 23, 2016
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#46
So do you actually know that the LORD God said anything more than that which is written in Genesis 2:16?
And the LORD God commanded the man, saying, Of every tree of the garden thou mayest freely eat: Since God made man, male and female, then how do you know whether it was the male or the female that the LORD God commanded.
And he answered and said unto them, Have ye not read, that he which made them at the beginning made them male and female,Matt 19:4Especially considering that the man whom the LORD God put in the garden could very well be the male and female since the they would no longer be two but one flesh.
And said, For this cause shall a man leave father and mother, and shall cleave to his wife: and they twain shall be one flesh? 6 Wherefore they are no more twain, but one flesh. Matt 19:5-6
In Gen 2:16-17, God told the man Of every tree of the garden thou mayest freely eat: But of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, thou shalt not eat of it: for in the day that thou eatest thereof thou shalt surely die.

Then in Gen 2:18 (after God told Adam not to eat of the tree of knowledge of good and evil), God said It is not good that the man should be alone; I will make him an help meet for him.

We know God told Adam not to eat of the tree of knowledge of good and evil.


We do not know what Adam told Eve concerning the tree of knowledge of good and evil.

We know what Eve told the serpent.



 

garee

Senior Member
Mar 28, 2016
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#47
17 But of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, thou shalt not eat of it: for in the day that thou eatest thereof thou shalt surely die.


18 And the Lord God said, It is not good that the man should be alone; I will make him an help meet for him.


19 And out of the ground the Lord God formed every beast of the field, and every fowl of the air; and brought them unto Adam to see what he would call them: and whatsoever Adam called every living creature, that was the name thereof.


20 And Adam gave names to all cattle, and to the fowl of the air, and to every beast of the field; but for Adam there was not found an help meet for him.


21 And the Lord God caused a deep sleep to fall upon Adam, and he slept: and he took one of his ribs, and closed up the flesh instead thereof;


22 And the rib, which the Lord God had taken from man, made he a woman, and brought her unto the man.
In Gen 2:16-17, God told the man Of every tree of the garden thou mayest freely eat: But of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, thou shalt not eat of it: for in the day that thou eatest thereof thou shalt surely die.

Then in Gen 2:18 (after God told Adam not to eat of the tree of knowledge of good and evil), God said It is not good that the man should be alone; I will make him an help meet for him.

We know God told Adam not to eat of the tree of knowledge of good and evil.

We do not know what Adam told Eve concerning the tree of knowledge of good and evil.

We know what Eve told the serpent.
Adam was with Eve when mankind "one creation" sinned . Previously having solved the cure for loneliness all in the twinkling of the eye on the sixth day.
 
Mar 23, 2016
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#48
17 But of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, thou shalt not eat of it: for in the day that thou eatest thereof thou shalt surely die.


18 And the Lord God said, It is not good that the man should be alone; I will make him an help meet for him.


19 And out of the ground the Lord God formed every beast of the field, and every fowl of the air; and brought them unto Adam to see what he would call them: and whatsoever Adam called every living creature, that was the name thereof.


20 And Adam gave names to all cattle, and to the fowl of the air, and to every beast of the field; but for Adam there was not found an help meet for him.


21 And the Lord God caused a deep sleep to fall upon Adam, and he slept: and he took one of his ribs, and closed up the flesh instead thereof;


22 And the rib, which the Lord God had taken from man, made he a woman, and brought her unto the man.
1 Corinthians 11:8-9 For the man is not of the woman; but the woman of the man. Neither was the man created for the woman; but the woman for the man.


1 Timothy 2:13 For Adam was first formed, then Eve.




garee said:
Adam was with Eve when mankind "one creation" sinned . Previously having solved the cure for loneliness all in the twinkling of the eye on the sixth day.
1 Timothy 2:13-14 For Adam was first formed, then Eve. And Adam was not deceived but the woman being deceived ...

Adam formed first ... then Eve.

The serpent beguiled Eve and she was deceived.

Adam was not deceived.
Eve ate and she died.
Adam ate and he joined Eve in death.
Adam was not deceived when he ate.



 
Oct 12, 2012
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#49
The whole world groans in expectation of being clothed with the incorruptible. It would seem when the glory of the lord departed death began.
I don't think the verse speaks to the planet, rather than the folks inhabiting it.
I agree here with Locutus this particular verse is speaking of the rest of the Adamic race had become corrupt; the creation became corrupt at the fall of Satan, and of no fault of its own according to Paul in Room ch 8. 😋
 

garee

Senior Member
Mar 28, 2016
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#50
I agree here with Locutus this particular verse is speaking of the rest of the Adamic race had become corrupt; the creation became corrupt at the fall of Satan, and of no fault of its own according to Paul in Room ch 8. 😋

I would think the corrupted rudiments (atom and molecules) that make up a corrupted human body . Will not be cloaked with the incorruptible as if it inherited it.

That would seem more like the idea of a wolf in sheep's clothing or reincarnation. And not a new creation as in all things are new. No used parts as a rebuilt.

Not as if we could find God under the microscope if we would remove the decaying process

The old things of here will not be remembered or ever come to mind for ever and ever .

Colossians 2:8 Beware lest any man spoil you through philosophy and vain deceit, after the tradition of men, after the rudiments of the world, and not after Christ.

1 Corinthians 15:50 Now this I say, brethren, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God; neither doth corruption inherit incorruption.
 

garee

Senior Member
Mar 28, 2016
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#51
1 Corinthians 11:8-9 For the man is not of the woman; but the woman of the man. Neither was the man created for the woman; but the woman for the man.


1 Timothy 2:13 For Adam was first formed, then Eve.





1 Timothy 2:13-14 For Adam was first formed, then Eve. And Adam was not deceived but the woman being deceived ...

Adam formed first ... then Eve.

The serpent beguiled Eve and she was deceived.

Adam was not deceived.
Eve ate and she died.
Adam ate and he joined Eve in death.
Adam was not deceived when he ate.
The commandment was not to one of the two but to mankind.(one new creature) Adam was there . He should of protected her as in self interest.

Sort of like a back seat driver warning the other of speeding etc. Ticket comes out of both pockets.

You could say he deceived his wife by not washing her with the water of the word, as the doctrines of God. It what Christ does for His bride today made up of men and woman, Jew and gentile the new creation.

6 And when the woman saw that the tree was good for food, and that it was pleasant to the eyes, and a tree to be desired to make one wise, she took of the fruit thereof, and did eat, and gave also unto her husband with her; and he did eat.Genesis 3
 
Mar 23, 2016
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#52
You could say he deceived his wife by not washing her with the water of the word, as the doctrines of God.
God's Word says what God's Word says concerning the matter.

Does God's Word say that Adam deceived his wife?



 

GraceAndTruth

Junior Member
Sep 28, 2015
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#53
When did the corruption of the world begin? When sin entered it.
 

garee

Senior Member
Mar 28, 2016
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#54
God's Word says what God's Word says concerning the matter.

Does God's Word say that Adam deceived his wife?
Not verbatim .By not protecting her as one creation. One falls the other falls with . He was found guilty . The sin is imputed to man just as the righteousness of our husband Christ is imputed to us. The husband Adam was not washing His wife Eve with the water of the word.

Death reigned from Adam to Moses. Not Eve to Moses.

Wherefore, as by one man sin entered into the world, and death by sin; and so death passed upon all men, for that all have sinned:
(For until the law sin was in the world: but sin is not imputed when there is no law. Nevertheless death reigned from Adam to Moses, even over them that had not sinned after the similitude of Adam's transgression, who is the figure of him that was to come. Romans 5 12-14
 

garee

Senior Member
Mar 28, 2016
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#55
When did the corruption of the world begin? When sin entered it.
I would offer . I would think something happened before day four, the day he started the two time keepers (Sun and the reflected glory the Moon to both represent the temporal glory ) . Time is irrelevant in the new order . Something removed their temporal covering that they did see their private parts and were ashamed of, not be clothed with the righteous of Christ they had beforehand .

And I saw no temple therein: for the Lord God Almighty and the Lamb are the temple of it. And the city had no need of the sun, neither of the moon, to shine in it: for the "glory of God" did lighten it, and the Lamb is the light thereof.And the nations of them which are saved shall walk in the light of it: and the kings of the earth do bring their glory and honour into it.Revelation21:22-24
 

GraceAndTruth

Junior Member
Sep 28, 2015
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#56
I would offer . I would think something happened before day four, the day he started the two time keepers (Sun and the reflected glory the Moon to both represent the temporal glory ) . Time is irrelevant in the new order . Something removed their temporal covering that they did see their private parts and were ashamed of, not be clothed with the righteous of Christ they had beforehand .

And I saw no temple therein: for the Lord God Almighty and the Lamb are the temple of it. And the city had no need of the sun, neither of the moon, to shine in it: for the "glory of God" did lighten it, and the Lamb is the light thereof.And the nations of them which are saved shall walk in the light of it: and the kings of the earth do bring their glory and honour into it.Revelation21:22-24
However, they did not see their "private parts" as you put it, until after the first sin.
Adam's first sin was to defy God and eat deliberately of that "apple".
Then God covered them with the skin of an animal......first mention of blood sacrifice to cover sin, initiated by God and imitated by Abel, which is why Abel's offering to God was acceptable and Cain's was not.
 

Grandpa

Senior Member
Jun 24, 2011
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#57
Then God covered them with the skin of an animal......first mention of blood sacrifice to cover sin, initiated by God and imitated by Abel, which is why Abel's offering to God was acceptable and Cain's was not.
The bible doesn't expressly say any of that.

It doesn't say the skin of an animal.

It doesn't say blood sacrifice.

It doesn't say Abel imitated Gods blood sacrifice.

Galatians 3:21 Unto Adam also and to his wife did the Lord God make coats of skins, and clothed them.

You could ask the question - if they weren't skins of animals what were they? The Lord God made them. And clothed them. A person could infer a lot of things from this.

I just don't think we should assume a blood sacrifice to cover sin when it isn't stated that way.
 

GraceAndTruth

Junior Member
Sep 28, 2015
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#58
I just don't think we should assume a blood sacrifice to cover sin when it isn't stated that way.[/QUOTE]

And I don't think you cannot.
The text is plain enough.
 

Grandpa

Senior Member
Jun 24, 2011
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#59
I just don't think we should assume a blood sacrifice to cover sin when it isn't stated that way.

And I don't think you cannot.
The text is plain enough.


it was not a sin of the flesh that was the first sin, it was the 'adding to God's word'.
Adam was told not to eat of the fruit by God, then Adam tells Eve they are not to eat of it OR TO TOUCH IT.
That was the first rebellion.
Isn't this what you are doing with your assumptions?
 

GraceAndTruth

Junior Member
Sep 28, 2015
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#60
I just don't think we should assume a blood sacrifice to cover sin when it isn't stated that way.



Isn't this what you are doing with your assumptions?
ok, suppose I go where you are......let me ask some questions.

How did God cover Adam and Eve with animal skin without the shedding of the blood?
Was that not a covering for the sin?
How did Abel know that his sacrifice would be pleasing to God?
When did God make blood sacrifice the atonement for sin?
Does the covenant with Noah have anything to do with a blood atonement?
Do not animals bleed when killed?
If offered as a burnt offering on an alter, is not the blood part of the offering?