When did the corrupted world we live in become corrupted?

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GraceAndTruth

Junior Member
Sep 28, 2015
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#61
You stated in Post #31: "then Adam tells Eve they are not to eat of it OR TO TOUCH IT."

My only point was that we do not know what Adam told Eve concerning the tree of knowledge of good and evil.

All we know is what Eve said to the serpent (which may or may not have been what Adam told Eve).
supposedly Eve was repeating what Adam told her, that is the way it reads to me
.Eve also referred to the tree being in the middle of the garden.....had Eve seen it there or was she again repeating what Adam told her.
I don't think it makes much difference to theology either way.
 

garee

Senior Member
Mar 28, 2016
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#63
God's Word says what God's Word says concerning the matter.

Does God's Word say that Adam deceived his wife?
Adam representing Christ was to protect her washing her with the water of the word he failed as many husbands do .

What Eve did was imputed to Adam who was right there holding her hand. The command was not to one, but not the other... but to mankind, one creation .Mankind fell, not just the ladies... like ladies first and then man takes a bite of the forbidden fruit of doing the will of another . You could say in the winkling of the eye simotainously both bit different sides of the same apple in perfect harmony
 

garee

Senior Member
Mar 28, 2016
11,748
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#64
If you can't stand the heat, get out of the kitchen......."marine"
LOl I cannot cook and stay out of the way drooling, its the woman do the ruling .To hot for me at seventy
 

GraceAndTruth

Junior Member
Sep 28, 2015
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#65
LOl I cannot cook and stay out of the way drooling, its the woman do the ruling .To hot for me at seventy
If you are a marine, you are not THE marine referred to, bet you know the one I do refer to:
You know, the one , ...."I'm so tough which is why I'm so gauche"! <----that one
 

Grandpa

Senior Member
Jun 24, 2011
9,684
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#68
ok, suppose I go where you are......let me ask some questions.

How did God cover Adam and Eve with animal skin without the shedding of the blood?
Was that not a covering for the sin?
How did Abel know that his sacrifice would be pleasing to God?
When did God make blood sacrifice the atonement for sin?
Does the covenant with Noah have anything to do with a blood atonement?
Do not animals bleed when killed?
If offered as a burnt offering on an alter, is not the blood part of the offering?
The bible doesn't say they were animal skins.

The bible doesn't say it was a covering for sin.

The bible doesn't say Abel knew his sacrifice would be pleasing to God beforehand.

The bible doesn't say WHEN God made blood sacrifice the atonement for sin. Hebrews 10 does say that the blood of bulls and goats couldn't take away sins.


At least you are starting to realize that with your assumptions you are doing the exact same thing as Eve did in the garden.

But I think you assumed that was Adams fault.
 

GraceAndTruth

Junior Member
Sep 28, 2015
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#69
I put my answers to your questions in bold red letters.

The bible doesn't say they were animal skins. Genesis 3:21

The bible doesn't say it was a covering for sin. Then why cover them?, its not like they were to be seen by a crowd of people

The bible doesn't say Abel knew his sacrifice would be pleasing to God beforehand. Because he had the EXAMPLE (othewise it was just a "good guess??)

The bible doesn't say WHEN God made blood sacrifice the atonement for sin. Hebrews 10 does say that the blood of bulls and goats couldn't take away sins. Yes it does...Genesis 3:21. Hebrews is under the NEW covenant. Under the old the blood of animals was THE sacrifice for sin, (the life is IN the blood"


At least you are starting to realize that with your assumptions you are doing the exact same thing as Eve did in the garden.

But I think you assumed that was Adams fault.
Where did Eve get the idea that she and Adam, were not to TOUCH the fruit?

Think about your own assumptions.
 

Grandpa

Senior Member
Jun 24, 2011
9,684
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#70
Where did Eve get the idea that she and Adam, were not to TOUCH the fruit?

Think about your own assumptions.
The same place where you got your ideas that God clothed Adam and Eve in animal skins and that God sacrificed those animals as a covering for their sin.

She made it up inside her own head. And Added to the Word of God based on her own ideas.


I'm not saying that your hypotheses aren't good ones. They do seem to make a certain kind of sense. But they're still just assumptions.

I'm not sure why you aren't seeing this.
 

GraceAndTruth

Junior Member
Sep 28, 2015
1,108
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#71
The same place where you got your ideas that God clothed Adam and Eve in animal skins and that God sacrificed those animals as a covering for their sin.

She made it up inside her own head. And Added to the Word of God based on her own ideas.


I'm not saying that your hypotheses aren't good ones. They do seem to make a certain kind of sense. But they're still just assumptions.

I'm not sure why you aren't seeing this.
What makes you think I do not know they are assumptions? Of course they are LOGICAL assumptions.
Like I would assume that God separated the "sheep from the goats" at the beginning, at the PRO ORIZO.
Or that the apostle John was probably a boy of around 20 when joining Jesus.

So do you agree or not that the animal skin was the covering.......I gave you the scripture
 

Grandpa

Senior Member
Jun 24, 2011
9,684
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#72
What makes you think I do not know they are assumptions? Of course they are LOGICAL assumptions.
Like I would assume that God separated the "sheep from the goats" at the beginning, at the PRO ORIZO.
Or that the apostle John was probably a boy of around 20 when joining Jesus.

So do you agree or not that the animal skin was the covering.......I gave you the scripture
No. It doesn't say that God sacrificed animals and used their blood as a sin covering. It just says God made them coats of skins and clothed them.

If a man made the coats of skins and clothed them then we could assume what you assume. But when God clothes us it can mean something entirely different.

I haven't decided for 100% that you are wrong. Your assumptions could be correct. I'm just not sure yet.
 

GraceAndTruth

Junior Member
Sep 28, 2015
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#73
No. It doesn't say that God sacrificed animals and used their blood as a sin covering. It just says God made them coats of skins and clothed them.

If a man made the coats of skins and clothed them then we could assume what you assume. But when God clothes us it can mean something entirely different.

I haven't decided for 100% that you are wrong. Your assumptions could be correct. I'm just not sure yet.
This view seemed plain to me, even though I had not heard it from others, it is one I have held for a long time
Since you questioned this, I have looked at several internet sites that agree with this view.
So I am not out there all by myself on this issue. I wanted to check if I was outside accepted thought on this.

I have quoted PART of one of them here:

One source for such a teaching is at Sermoncentral.com.
"The First Sacrifice is recorded in Genesis 3:21.

Remember the setting? Adam and Eve sinned against God, their eyes were opened, they realized they were naked, and they were ashamed. So they tried to cover their nakedness with fig leaves. But fig leaves make lousy clothes. So God intervened, sacrificed an animal, and make garments of skin for them.

This is the first sacrifice mentioned in the Bible. An innocent animal, most likely lamb, lost it’s life so that Adam and Eve could be covered.​
Thus, as with all of God's institutions, it was established by God Himself."


This first sacrifice has the picture of Christ all over it. It was a covering for the sin, made by God. Most likely a firstborn animal.

I'm not holding firm to a lamb but I do like the idea.
 

RickyZ

Senior Member
Sep 20, 2012
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#75
Woman sinned first. But we are all in this together ;)

Oh, you changed your question... :unsure:
I always thought it peculiar that, just as now, man took the blame for something a woman started ;)
 

RickyZ

Senior Member
Sep 20, 2012
9,635
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#77
@GraceAndTruth <---Funny how people cannot handle the truth.....by the way....thumbs down by those remaining ignorant by choice means zero to me!!
One man's truth is another man's heresy ... only God knows who has it right, which we will all be surprised to find out none of us do!
 

GraceAndTruth

Junior Member
Sep 28, 2015
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#79
It was Adam who is guilty of the first sin. God made him the federal head of the human race
Eve was tempted......Adam disobeyed deliberately.