When does the marriage supper of the lamb happen? Before, During, or after Great Tribulation?

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TheDivineWatermark

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#62
By contrast [to the "G4862 - syn - UNIONED-WITH" thing], instead, the "FIVE Virgins" go in "WITH [G3326 - meta - ACCOMPANYING] Him" into the wedding FEAST/SUPPER [the earthly MK age], which word we see used also in the Lk22:30,16,18 parallel of Matt26:29 saying "UNTIL that day when I drink it NEW *WITH [G3326 - meta - ACCOMPANYING] you..." (and recall the "proleptic 'you'" I've referred to in the past, meaning [basically], "all those in the future, of the SAME CATEGORY" [those to whom the promised and prophesied EARTHLY Millennial Kingdom was promised]--I see this as the fulfillment of what we see written in Heb8:8, etc [see again Lk22:30,16,18]).

The "FIVE Virgins" (Mt25) are NOT who He is MARRYING.
(By this point in the chronology, He is RETURNING [to the earth] as a ALREADY-WED Bridegroom!)
 

Ahwatukee

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Mar 12, 2015
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#63
The church contains to bride.
The church is not the bride.
The entire church is indeed the bride, not just a specific group within the church. What would make you come to this conclusion?

"So John’s disciples came to him and said, “Look, Rabbi, the One who was with you beyond the Jordan, the One you testified about—He is baptizing, and everyone is going to Him.” John replied, “A man can receive only what is given him from heaven. You yourselves can testify that I said, ‘I am not the Christ, but am sent ahead of Him.’ The bride belongs to the bridegroom.

The Bride = everyone who comes to Christ

The bible says ALL TAKE THE MARK.
Actually, the Bible says that the inhabitants of the earth whose names have not been written in the book of life from before the world was created, will worship the beast, his image and receive his mark. The great tribulation saints do not receive the mark, as revealed below:

"And I saw the souls of those who had been beheaded because of their testimony about Jesus and because of the word of God. They had not worshiped the beast or his image and had not received his mark on their foreheads or their hands. They came to life and reigned with Christ a thousand years.

So, not everyone takes the mark. If everyone took the mark, then there would be no one to enter the millennial kingdom, because who worship the beast and receive his mark will be killed when Jesus returns to the earth.


Rev 14 has 144k either martyred or raptured alive( 1st fruit jews) then the ones you claim are trib saints,jews or whatever..

The male child is a collective name representing the 144,000, who are caught up to God and His throne in the middle of the seven years. The great tribulation saints are all Gentiles, as revealed below:

"After this I looked, and there before me was a great multitude that no one could count, from every nation, tribe, people and language, standing before the throne and before the Lamb."

That they are said to be from every nation, tribe, people and language, would make them Gentile believers, also referred to in Rev.7:14 as the saints who come out of the great tribulation.

It even says " blessed are those that die in the lord at this time" And; "angels preach the gospel" ...because no christians are on the earth
It states that because they will have not loved their lives so much as to shrink away from death, because they will have died keeping the testimony of Jesus and the word of God and will not have worshiped the beast, his image nor received his mark.

It is poor exegesis to think all the references to "1st fruits" somehow has no connection to the other 3 parts of "harvest".
If by "1st fruits" you mean "first resurrection," I never said that the 1st fruits has no connection to the other parts of harvest (resurrections). On the contrary, if you go back and read my post I stated that the first resurrection has stages/phases which all fall under the banner of the first resurrection:

First Resurrection:

* Jesus the first fruits (I Cor. 15:23)

* The Church at the Lord's appearing (John 14:1-3, I Cor.15:51-53, I Thess.4:13-17)

* The male child/144,000 (changed and caught up in Rev.12:5)

* The two witnesses (Rev.11:11)

* The great tribulation saints (Rev.20:4-6)

All of the above belong to the first resurrection.

Regarding the two harvests in Revelation 14, it is not stated as to who these are. The first harvest appears to be a good harvest simply stating that they were reaped, while the second harvest is clearly not good, since when the angel swings his sickle over the earth, its grapes (the wicked) are thrown into the wine press of God's wrath with the blood as high as the horses bridle, which would by synonymous with Rev.19:15, when Jesus who tramples the winepress of the wrath of God Almighty , are killed when Jesus returns to the earth.
 

Ahwatukee

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#64
Fine, I'm just pointing out one aspect... At the point of Rev19, "the MARRIAGE" is already complete/already having taken place in Heaven (aorist); however, "the marriage FEAST/SUPPER" has not (it is what will happen NEXT in the chronology), and the only thing "aorist" about it, is the "INVITATION of the guests" all throughout the 7-yr trib on the earth, that has been unfolding. The next scene / item in the chronology, is (note the word "RETURN" [which refers to, "to the earth"]: "when he will RETURN FROM the wedding..." THEN the meal Lk12:36-37,38,40,42-44 [and its parallels]).
The wedding feast takes place after the wedding in heaven, else how can you explain the following:

"I say to you that many will come from the east and the west, and will take their places at the feast with Abraham, Isaac and Jacob in the kingdom of heaven.

I'm saying, that the "wedding feast/supper" parables (and the "G347 shall sit down [around a table/at a meal]" thing) is the next thing in the chronology after the "RETURN" [to the earth] taking place in Rev19
How can say that when Rev.19:11-21 is a detailed account of the Lord returning to the earth to end the age. Therefore, everything that happens within those verses are prior to His return, including the wedding of the Lamb in heaven.

and that none of those [passages] depict the "bride" (though indeed "returning" WITH/UNIONED-WITH [G4862]" the Bridegroom! FOR the festivities/feast/supper [the earthly MK and/or its inauguration]).
Those verses certainly do depict the bride returning with the bridegroom. Rev.19:6-8 reveals that the wedding of the Lamb is taking place and the bride/church is receiving her fine linen, white and clean. Then in verse 14 the armies of heaven who are following the Lord out of heaven are wearing that same fine linen, white and clean, which would make those armies the bride returning with Jesus riding on white horses.

The entire church is the bride, those who will have been resurrected and caught up prior to God's wrath and the revealing of the antichrist/beast.
 

TheDivineWatermark

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#65
The wedding feast takes place after the wedding in heaven, else how can you explain the following:

"I say to you that many will come from the east and the west, and will take their places at the feast with Abraham, Isaac and Jacob in the kingdom of heaven.
For one, Daniel [OT saint (like A, I, J ^ )] was told specifically (Dan12:13) that he will "rest [in death] and stand in thy lot [be resurrected to stand again on the earth] AT THE END OF THE DAYS [at the END of the VERY SPECIFIC set of "days" referred to in that context, meaning, at the END of the 2nd HALF of the trib]" (OT saints were not promised "Rapture," which pertains SOLELY to "the Church WHICH IS HIS BODY"; Eph1:20-23 WHEN); whereas some (of [remnant of believing-]Israel) will ENTER the MK in mortal bodies (what Dan12:12 is referring to, instead).

Secondly, "the kingdom OF THE heavenS" (the accurate phrasing of the one you mention) IS the promised and prophesied EARTHLY Millennial Kingdom (in all of its references/mentions).
 

TheDivineWatermark

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#66
IOW, there is no "rapture" at the END of the trib... all who AT THAT TIME are "resurrected" or even "still-living" will enter the MK age (OT saints [resurrected to stand again on the earth] and Trib saints [both resurrected and still-living saints, at that time]). Neither of these groups have been promised "Rapture" (to "the meeting [noun] of the Lord... IN THE AIR" and for distinct purposes [the "wedding FEAST/SUPPER" is NOT one of those purposes (of our Rapture), but is instead the EARTHLY MK or at least its inauguration]).

Rev20:6 "blessed and holy are those having A PART in the first resurrection" (note that Grk word)
 

Ahwatukee

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#67
For one, Daniel [OT saint] was told specifically (Dan12:13) that he will "rest [in death] and stand in thy lot [be resurrected to stand again on the earth] AT THE END OF THE DAYS [at the END of the VERY SPECIFIC set of "days" referred to in that context, meaning, at the END of the 2nd HALF of the trib]" (OT saints were not promised "Rapture," which pertains SOLELY to "the Church WHICH IS HIS BODY"; Eph1:20-23 WHEN); whereas some (of [remnant of believing-]Israel) will ENTER the MK in mortal bodies (what Dan12:12 is referring to, instead).
You are correct! However, you are not taking into consideration what I presented regarding the first resurrection having stages/phases. The church is gathered first, with the OT saints of Israel are resurrected later. These are all apart of the first resurrection.

Secondly, "the kingdom OF THE heavenS" (the accurate phrasing of the one you mention) IS the promised and prophesied EARTHLY Millennial Kingdom (in all of its references/mentions).
The kingdom of the heavens would be exactly what it says, meaning that the feast takes place in heaven, not on the earth. I'm surprised that you would give into the teaching of "the kingdom of the heavens" referring to the millennial kingdom which is on the earth. There's a reason why it is called the kingdom of the heavens and that because that is where it takes place, in heaven. You might want to read the following which I found in "Got Questions" which I whole heartily agree with:

https://www.gotquestions.org/marriage-supper-Lamb.html
 

TheDivineWatermark

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#68
I am saying "the Church WHICH IS HIS BODY" (ALL those SAVED between Pentecost and our PRE-trib Rapture [Eph1:20-23 WHEN]) is who the Rapture pertains to SOLELY (NOT to OT saints, NOT to Trib saints, NOT to MK saints).

However, ALL saints (at/by the time the MK commences) WILL BE PRESENT FOR IT. And THIS is "the wedding FEAST/SUPPER" (the Bridegroom present, His Bride [as already-wed (IN HEAVEN and now RETURNING here!)] will be present, and ALL OT saints and Trib saints will be present. NO SAINT will be excluded! ALL PRESENT for it)

There existed no "BODY" before the exaltation of its "HEAD" (Eph1:20-23 WHEN); though there indeed were "saints"! (OT saints! Just as there WILL be FUTURE "saints": TRIB saints! and MK saints!)
 

Ahwatukee

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#69
IOW, there is no "rapture" at the END of the trib... all who AT THAT TIME are "resurrected" or even "still-living" will enter the MK age (OT saints [resurrected to stand again on the earth] and Trib saints [both resurrected and still-living saints, at that time]). Neither of these groups have been promised "Rapture" (to "the meeting [noun] of the Lord... IN THE AIR" and for distinct purposes [the "wedding FEAST/SUPPER" is NOT one of those purposes (of our Rapture), but is instead the EARTHLY MK or at least its inauguration])
There most certainly is a resurrection of the great tribulation saints after Jesus returns to the earth to end the age.

"And I saw the souls of those who had been beheaded because of their testimony about Jesus and because of the word of God. They had not worshiped the beast or its image and had not received its mark on their foreheads or their hands. They came to life and reigned with Christ a thousand years."

The fact that John says that they are beheaded would demonstrate that when the verse says "they lived" would infer that they come back to life, i.e. resurrected. Otherwise, how could you have those who are beheaded ruling with Christ during the thousand years in that state? They would have to be resurrected first. Then by referring to this group as those who will have not worshiped the beast, his image nor received his mark, this would identify them as the great tribulation saints who will have been killed because of that and for keeping the testimony of Jesus and the word of God.
 

Ahwatukee

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#70
I am saying "the Church WHICH IS HIS BODY" (ALL those SAVED between Pentecost and our PRE-trib Rapture [Eph1:20-23 WHEN]) is who the Rapture pertains to SOLELY (NOT to OT saints, not to Trib saints, not to MK saints).
I agree and teach the same! However, there are other resurrections which take place later and which are phases to the first resurrection, such as the male child/144,000, the two witnesses (caught up), the OT saints and great tribulation saints. The church (His body) is next. Though the other groups do not belong to the church, they do take part in the first resurrection, which the second death has no power over.
 

TheDivineWatermark

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#71
EDIT: should read (for better clarity) "ALL saints (having existed at/by the time the MK commences)
 

TheDivineWatermark

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#72
I agree and teach the same! However, there are other resurrections which take place later and which belong to the first resurrect, such as the male child/144,000, the two witnesses, the OT saints and great tribulation saints. The church (His body) is next. Though the other groups do not belong to the church, they do take part in the first resurrection.
"Resurrections" YES! I agree (and have been continually saying so!)

Not "rapture" (which pertains SOLELY to "the Church which is His body" [Eph1:20-23 WHEN]--there existed no "BODY" before He was exalted "HEAD"! IOW, OT saints were promised "RESURRECTION," but NOT "Rapture"... THEY will be present for the earthly MK [the wedding FEAST/SUPPER... the MEAL (the G347 - "shall sit down [around a table/at a meal]" Mt8:11 and parallel)])
 

TheDivineWatermark

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#73
^ EDIT: IOW, OT saints were promised "RESURRECTION" ['to stand again on the earth'], but NOT "Rapture"... THEY will be present for the earthly MK [the wedding FEAST/SUPPER... the MEAL (the G347 - "shall sit down [around a table/at a meal]" Mt8:11 and parallel)--aka "the kingdom OF THE heavenS" (on the EARTH,<--which is what THIS phrase refers to in all places where it is used)])


[in the past I've referred to the "about 10 or so 'BLESSED' passages" which refer to this (the EARTHLY MK)]
 

Ahwatukee

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#74
"Resurrections" YES! I agree (and have been continually saying so!)

Not "rapture" (which pertains SOLELY to "the Church which is His body" [Eph1:20-23 WHEN])
I believe that there is one other catching up (rapture) which takes place:

"She gave birth to a son, a male child, who “will rule all the nations with an iron scepter.” And her child was caught up to God and to his throne."

I personally believe that the "Male Child" is a collective name representing the 144,000 who, as the verse above states, will be caught up to God and to His throne. The words "caught up" is the word "harpazo" which is the same word used when the church is "caught up" as revealed in I Thess.4:17, meaning to "seize by force; snatch up, suddenly and decisively." The dragon/Satan is waiting for the woman/Israel to give birth and she gives birth to the male child who is caught up to God and His throne before the dragon/Satan can devour/kill it. I believe that the male child/144,000 are changed and caught up in the same manner that the living church will be and which is a future event. The word "harpazo" is also the same word used to describe Paul when he was "caught up" to the third heaven.

Blessings!
 

TheDivineWatermark

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#75
That's fine. We don't see this [particular point] the same (and that's okay, I see it as relatively minor); you believe "the man child" is the 144,000, whereas I see it (and especially in its wording of v.13 "the male [G730 - arsena/arrén]" (no "child" word is in that verse) as referring to the Church which is His body (as do a few authors/bible teachers... off the top of my head, I think, Wm E Blackstone was one, and HA Ironside was another). I also see it as paralleling Micah 5:3 (with its "UNTIL," which I see as parallel to the "UNTIL" of Rom11:25 and the "TILL" of Hosea 5:15[-6:1-3]).

I've shown in past posts my explanation of how I do not see Rev14 as a "rapture," nor as taking place "in heaven"
 

Absolutely

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#76
All praises to Ahayah Bahasham Yashaya Wa Raach!

I asked that question because it was brought up the end of a church service
and I had never thought about it because no one really talks about that much so I thought I would post the question to see everyone’s views.
————
And yes I agree with you there, also scripture says that Christ will send out His angels to gather the Saints when He returns after Tribulation. And I don’t see them being left out of that wonderful celebration!
From HEAVEN.
IT says they are gathered from heaven.
He comes WITH his bride/wife,not for....(after THE 7 YR GT)
 

Absolutely

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#77
All praises to Ahayah Bahasham Yashaya Wa Raach!
Scripture detailed those events clearly.
As for the pre Tribulation I don’t see it being detailed anywhere in scripture.
Just as the others were.
Scripture doesn’t give clues or even mention a secret rapture or caught up event that will take place.
"Ahayah Bahasham Yashaya Wa Raach!"
I guarantee you something is going on with that

That happens to be the banner of the black separatists
 
Jul 27, 2019
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#78
""Shows Christ descending from heaven and those being caught up after He returns""

Go re read it.
Says ANGELS GATHER FROM HEAVEN.
no rapture there...you litterally pulled from nowhere and added it to the bible
All praises to Ahayah Bahasham Yashaya Wa Raach!
——
That word heaven means sky.
Rightly divide the word and see.
——
Genesis 1:6 ¶ And God said, Let there be a firmament in the midst of the waters: and let it diuide the waters from the waters.
Genesis 1:7 And God made the firmament; and diuided the waters, which were vnder the firmament, from the waters, which were aboue the firmament: and it was so.
Genesis 1:14 ¶ And God said, Let there bee lights in the firmament of the heauen, to diuide the day from the night: and let them be for signes and for seasons, and for dayes and yeeres.
Genesis 1:15 And let them be for lights in the firmament of the heauen, to giue light vpon the earth: and it was so.
Genesis 1:17 And God set them in the firmament of the heauen, to giue light vpon the earth:
Genesis 1:18 And to rule ouer the day, and ouer the night, and to diuide the light from the darkenesse: and God saw that it was good.
——
 

TheDivineWatermark

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#79
^ The phrase simply means "from the extremities" (that is, no "saint" will be left out).

In Matthew 24:31, it says, "...from the ends [plural] of the heavens [plural] to the ends [plural] of them [plural]" (this is not showing the "FROM" to be the starting point and the "TO" being the destination point; NO ! ); and Mark 13:27 says, "...from the end [singular] of the earth to the end [singular] of heaven [singular]" (same thing as the Matthew verse; same time slot, etc).

The destination point in these passages (per context) is the promised and prophesied EARTHLY Millennial Kingdom (just as in Isaiah 27:12-13's "great trumpet" passage... "to worship the Lord in the holy mount AT JERUSALEM").

These passages are not referencing "our Rapture".
 

GaryA

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#80
"Ahayah Bahasham Yashaya Wa Raach!"
I guarantee you something is going on with that

That happens to be the banner of the black separatists
The fact that "All praises to" is in front of it tells me that something is certainly wrong somewhere... :eek: