When does the rapture occur?

[KennethC]

TWICE HE ESCAPED;

1)13 And when they were departed, behold, the angel of the Lord appeareth to Joseph in a dream, saying, Arise, and take the young child and his mother, and flee into Egypt, and be thou there until I bring thee word: for Herod will seek the young child to destroy him.14 When he arose, he took the young child and his mother by night, and departed into Egypt:


2)22 But when he heard that Archelaus did reign in Judaea in the room of his father Herod, he was afraid to go thither: notwithstanding, being warned of God in a dream, he turned aside into the parts of Galilee:
23 And he came and dwelt in a city called Nazareth: that it might be fulfilled which was spoken by the prophets, He shall be called a Nazarene.


HAS TO DO WITH PURPOSE!!!
Pretrib owns this dimension ..............and all the others.

You are reaching now as those scriptures have nothing to do with proving a rapture.....

Lord Jesus told the 12 Apostles they would have to endure persecutions, danger, and were even killed (Matthew 10:22). Jesus also said that standard applies to believers in the tribulation (Matthew 24:10-13). Guess what, that standard applies to us as well that we will have to endure persecution and possibly death by our belief in Christ.

John 15:20
Remember the word that I said unto you, The servant is not greater than his lord. If they have persecuted me, they will also persecute you; if they have kept my saying, they will keep yours also.


We are not going to escape the persecution of the world by a rapture, as Jesus said we are only appointed to not face God's wrath. God's wrath is not poured out tell the end of the GT in the vial/bowl judgments !!!

 

[JesusIsAll]

Titus 2:13 Looking for that blessed hope, and the glorious appearing of the great God and our Saviour Jesus Christ.

[video=youtube;dN-wohv38CI]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dN-wohv38CI[/video]​

 

[mwc68]

Jesus,lot,noah,moses,were all taken away to escape danger/death.

You have NO postrib verses. Nothing.

What a blatant disgrace you refer to Jesus as peter pan

Did Lot, noah and Moses fly away? Did they? No.You are teaching people they will fly away to escape harm. That is irresponsible

 

[mwc68]

Titus 2:13 Looking for that blessed hope, and the glorious appearing of the great God and our Saviour Jesus Christ.

[video=youtube;dN-wohv38CI]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dN-wohv38CI[/video]​

Right away this is suspect. A tv preacher? Really? I bet you also have the whole left behind series too.

 

[Viligant_Warrior]

Right away this is suspect. A tv preacher? Really? I bet you also have the whole left behind series too.

Uh, no, not a "tv preacher." No offense, MWC, but that is Adrian Rogers, two-time Southern Baptist Convention president and one of the greatest champions of biblical literacy who has lived in the last 200 years. And Paul is very clear in his letter to Titus regarding Jesus' return.

Titus 2, NASB
11 For the grace of God has appeared, bringing salvation to all men,
12 instructing us to deny ungodliness and worldly desires and to live sensibly, righteously and godly in the present age,
13 looking for the blessed hope and the appearing of the glory of our great God and Savior, Christ Jesus,
14 who gave Himself for us to redeem us from every lawless deed, and to purify for Himself a people for His own possession, zealous for good deeds.
​

I know the Catholic doctrines are rather unclear on end times prophecy, but I also know a lot of Catholics who believe in Jesus' return.

 

[KennethC]

Uh, no, not a "tv preacher." No offense, MWC, but that is Adrian Rogers, two-time Southern Baptist Convention president and one of the greatest champions of biblical literacy who has lived in the last 200 years. And Paul is very clear in his letter to Titus regarding Jesus' return.

Titus 2, NASB
11 For the grace of God has appeared, bringing salvation to all men,
12 instructing us to deny ungodliness and worldly desires and to live sensibly, righteously and godly in the present age,
13 looking for the blessed hope and the appearing of the glory of our great God and Savior, Christ Jesus,
14 who gave Himself for us to redeem us from every lawless deed, and to purify for Himself a people for His own possession, zealous for good deeds.
​

I know the Catholic doctrines are rather unclear on end times prophecy, but I also know a lot of Catholics who believe in Jesus' return.

Yes this is regarding Jesus return, but once again this can not be used to prove a pre-trib rapture theory as Jesus return happens at the end of the GT. So once again all this would do is point to a post-trib rapture again as Apostle Paul also says the man of sin will be revealed (A.O.D.) first before any gathering of us to the Lord takes place !!!

 

[popeye]

You are reaching now as those scriptures have nothing to do with proving a rapture.....

Lord Jesus told the 12 Apostles they would have to endure persecutions, danger, and were even killed (Matthew 10:22). Jesus also said that standard applies to believers in the tribulation (Matthew 24:10-13). Guess what, that standard applies to us as well that we will have to endure persecution and possibly death by our belief in Christ.

John 15:20
Remember the word that I said unto you, The servant is not greater than his lord. If they have persecuted me, they will also persecute you; if they have kept my saying, they will keep yours also.


We are not going to escape the persecution of the world by a rapture, as Jesus said we are only appointed to not face God's wrath. God's wrath is not poured out tell the end of the GT in the vial/bowl judgments !!!

The petrib rapture is easily defended.

What was presented to me specifically, I addressed.

You deflected,once I proved Jesus in fact did escape. You claimed he never did. I showed you, you were wrong.

Now you act like it never happened.

Like I said,it goes to purpose. That dimension,purpose,requires I not OMIT, the verses that help to define it.

Postribs cliche the thing into oblivion,invoke peterpan,and then someone WITH A BIBLE has to come along and clean up ya'lls mess.

 

[popeye]

Yes this is regarding Jesus return, but once again this can not be used to prove a pre-trib rapture theory as Jesus return happens at the end of the GT. So once again all this would do is point to a post-trib rapture again as Apostle Paul also says the man of sin will be revealed (A.O.D.) first before any gathering of us to the Lord takes place !!!

Uh,no,what you just did was blend the two together,w/o any verses,forcing the invented u turn and a re-defining of rev 20.

You guys did that w/o verses,all in your minds,all via false teachers that cannot, for some bizarre reason, commit to a complete bible.

 

[KennethC]

The petrib rapture is easily defended.

What was presented to me specifically, I addressed.

You deflected,once I proved Jesus in fact did escape. You claimed he never did. I showed you, you were wrong.

Now you act like it never happened.

Like I said,it goes to purpose. That dimension,purpose,requires I not OMIT, the verses that help to define it.

Postribs cliche the thing into oblivion,invoke peterpan,and then someone WITH A BIBLE has to come along and clean up ya'lls mess.

No what I did was show you how your scriptures have nothing to do with proving a pre-trib rapture, and if Jesus would have escaped all persecution of the world and raptured away then He would have never have been beaten by the Romans as He was and then placed on the cross.

You are trying to interject things and certain times of protection to defend a pre-trib rapture that is full of holes, and of which those scriptures you gave have nothing to do with a pre-trib rapture or a rapture at all for that point. Which is why I said you are reaching !!!

Once again to prove a pre-trib rapture you would have to do away with 2 clear cut scriptures of 2 Thessalonians 2 of the falling away and the man of sin revealed first before any gathering takes place, and also Revelation 12:17, and 14:12 that shows Christians persecuted and killed in the tribulation period.

 

[KennethC]

Uh,no,what you just did was blend the two together,w/o any verses,forcing the invented u turn and a re-defining of rev 20.

You guys did that w/o verses,all in your minds,all via false teachers that cannot, for some bizarre reason, commit to a complete bible.

What are you talking about now as Revelation 20 has nothing to do with the rapture in proving when it happens either.

Revelation 20 is about satan being bound during the 1,000 year millennial reign of Christ, and then verse 4 John says he saw those believers who had been beheaded (killed) by the man of sin during the tribulation period. It does not say they were raptured away, but that they were killed during the tribulation.

Then the rest who did not believe did not get raised up tell after the 1,000 years had ended, and then satan is released again which leads to the Gog and Magog show down. Then the Great White judgment !!!

 

[popeye]

Did Lot, noah and Moses fly away? Did they? No.You are teaching people they will fly away to escape harm. That is irresponsible

You said that. I do not need it to say that,but you need the misrepresentation for some reason.

lets review. Postribs have a hurdle. That hurdle is the FACT that God has a pretrib(judgement) pattern. That pattern is RECORDED.
Now,what YOU NEED, is to show where the bible is wrong.

Show us this pattern where Lot,abraham, or noah, had no God to show up,or orchestrate their DELIVERANCE prewrath.

IOW,show me where God did what you say is his order of NOT DELIVERING UNTIL AFTER HE JUDGES.Along with the u turn back to the destroyed area.

You are basically saying God had no clue when he refused to destroy until lot was first ushered out.

Do you see the utter recklessness of postrib????

 

[popeye]

What are you talking about now as Revelation 20 has nothing to do with the rapture in proving when it happens either.

Revelation 20 is about satan being bound during the 1,000 year millennial reign of Christ, and then verse 4 John says he saw those believers who had been beheaded (killed) by the man of sin during the tribulation period. It does not say they were raptured away, but that they were killed during the tribulation.

Then the rest who did not believe did not get raised up tell after the 1,000 years had ended, and then satan is released again which leads to the Gog and Magog show down. Then the Great White judgment !!!

Postribs have the 1st resurrection hurdle. So ,in their minds,they reason that the 1st resurrection can not be several stages like the word CLEARLY,CLEARLY teaches. So they manufacture their own version.

Cunning and creative,but a huge FAIL scripturally.

 

[popeye]

Did Lot, noah and Moses fly away? Did they? No.You are teaching people they will fly away to escape harm. That is irresponsible

BTW,you have no case w/moses. That is all by itself,unless you want to show me the millions of hebrews killed by pharaoh DURING THE TIME OF THE JUDGEMENT.Or where the church,now delivered has no law and has to wonder in the desert of heaven postrib.
The word teaches the opposite of your belief.

 

[KennethC]

Postribs have the 1st resurrection hurdle. So ,in their minds,they reason that the 1st resurrection can not be several stages like the word CLEARLY,CLEARLY teaches. So they manufacture their own version.

Cunning and creative,but a huge FAIL scripturally.

The bible does not say the 1st Resurrection happens at different stages, and I don't even know where you get that from.
For the bible shows the 1st Resurrection takes place at the Lord's return before God's wrath is poured out at the end of the great tribulation, and before the 1,000 year millennial reign begins.

I don't see one scripture that supports different stages of the 1st Resurrection happening at different times, as the dead in Christ rising first and then those who are alive and remain happen in the same time frame. As in the dead are raised first then a minute later those who are still alive during the great tribulation are then caught up to be together. It does not show more than one time big multitudes of alive believers being caught up.

 

[popeye]

The bible does not say the 1st Resurrection happens at different stages, and I don't even know where you get that from.
For the bible shows the 1st Resurrection takes place at the Lord's return before God's wrath is poured out at the end of the great tribulation, and before the 1,000 year millennial reign begins.

I don't see one scripture that supports different stages of the 1st Resurrection happening at different times, as the dead in Christ rising first and then those who are alive and remain happen in the same time frame. As in the dead are raised first then a minute later those who are still alive during the great tribulation are then caught up to be together. It does not show more than one time big multitudes of alive believers being caught up.

Then what happened at Jesus' resurrection,when the patriarchs were raised from the dead ?

What was that?

How can you guys nit pick a 7th trumpet into oblivion,but wink at a first resurrection????

 

[popeye]

The bible does not say the 1st Resurrection happens at different stages, and I don't even know where you get that from.
For the bible shows the 1st Resurrection takes place at the Lord's return before God's wrath is poured out at the end of the great tribulation, and before the 1,000 year millennial reign begins.

I don't see one scripture that supports different stages of the 1st Resurrection happening at different times, as the dead in Christ rising first and then those who are alive and remain happen in the same time frame. As in the dead are raised first then a minute later those who are still alive during the great tribulation are then caught up to be together. It does not show more than one time big multitudes of alive believers being caught up.

I just blew a hole in postrib a ship could sail through,and you just watch,no postrib will bite on it.

 

[popeye]

BTW,the 144k IN HEAVEN is completely un answerable by the postrib doctrine.

How did they get there???? Martyred??? Raptured????

Watch this.......IT FITS PRETRIB W/NO PROBLEM.....as does the 1st resurrection,Gods deliverance pattern,the 4 parts to gathering (harvest/rapture) ,the time of the gentiles completed,the church in heaven during the gt,and the bride/groom dimension.

Postrib is basically indefensible,(apart from a cunning creative mind of a humanoid.

 

[mwc68]

You said that. I do not need it to say that,but you need the misrepresentation for some reason.

lets review. Postribs have a hurdle. That hurdle is the FACT that God has a pretrib(judgement) pattern. That pattern is RECORDED.
Now,what YOU NEED, is to show where the bible is wrong.

Show us this pattern where Lot,abraham, or noah, had no God to show up,or orchestrate their DELIVERANCE prewrath.

IOW,show me where God did what you say is his order of NOT DELIVERING UNTIL AFTER HE JUDGES.Along with the u turn back to the destroyed area.

You are basically saying God had no clue when he refused to destroy until lot was first ushered out.

Do you see the utter recklessness of postrib????

I don't remember any of those you mentioned, being flown away. That is the heart of this heresy, that you will fly away from danger

 

[popeye]

In fact,where is just one postrib rapture verse????

In 30 years of study I can not find a single verse.

 

[popeye]

I don't remember any of those you mentioned, being flown away. That is the heart of this heresy, that you will fly away from danger

Are you mocking 1 thes 4 or what???

Show me where jesus in mat 24 used both Lot and Noah to fly.

Address the subject without the trickery.