When does the rapture occur?

[GaryA]

But you speak as though the fallen ones don't know this.

"A lot of Christians don't know this --- because, they do not study their Bible well enough..."

 

[4enlightment]

Regardless of the authenticity of the imagery ( which, quite honestly, I tend to doubt -- it is just too easy these days to "photo-shop" things ), I am quite certain ( read: very certain ) that they are not prophetic - as evidence of the verses you posted.

well it does start to get the mind wondering as if He is on the earth speaking to others seeing what they know about Him..

[video]https://youtu.be/YabjZBVyJNk[/video]

[video]https://youtu.be/igAae8pMJF0[/video]

 

[GaryA]

The important thing to do is to understand what the scriptures say about the Second Coming of Christ...


2 Thessalonians 1:

[SUP]7[/SUP] And to you who are troubled rest with us, when the Lord Jesus shall be revealed from heaven with his mighty angels, [SUP]8[/SUP] In flaming fire taking vengeance on them that know not God, and that obey not the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ: [SUP]9[/SUP] Who shall be punished with everlasting destruction from the presence of the Lord, and from the glory of his power;


If you "see Jesus" -- and this is not "the way it is going down" -- it is not Jesus!


It also helps to understand what the scriptures say about the End Times Scenario ( as a whole, in general ) -- so that you can "see it coming" -- and know what is real ( according to scripture ) and what is not...

well it does start to get the mind wondering as if He is on the earth speaking to others seeing what they know about Him..

My mind doesn't wonder about it...


Acts 1:

[SUP]9[/SUP] And when he had spoken these things, while they beheld, he was taken up; and a cloud received him out of their sight. [SUP]10[/SUP] And while they looked stedfastly toward heaven as he went up, behold, two men stood by them in white apparel; [SUP]11[/SUP] Which also said, Ye men of Galilee, why stand ye gazing up into heaven? this same Jesus, which is taken up from you into heaven, shall so come in like manner as ye have seen him go into heaven.


The Bible tells us what to expect when Jesus returns. Therefore, if you "see Jesus" -- and the circumstances of it do not match what the Bible says -- it is not Jesus!

For example -- if it should happen that someone "appears on the scene" -- claiming to be Jesus -- and, telling the world that it should 'unify' into a New Age Religion ---- it is not Jesus.

 

[truthman8]

This will surprise you all, but the Rapture occurs very shortly after Christ lands on Earth at the end of the 45 days of the Abomination of Desolation. According to my calculations, this is February 6th, 2018. It is the end of the 1335 days of the "tribulation" period, which started on June 12th, when Hamas and the Palestinians increased the violence against Israel. There is much more to explain, and I don't have time tonight to tell you. But there is no pre-tribulation rapture. IT is either simultaneous with Christ's landing, or a few days after He cleanses the new temple and removes the TV broadcasting station called the "abomination of desolation", mentioned by Daniel, Jesus, and Revelation. This prepares Earth for the 8th day, which is the union of physical and spiritual life. The Spirit of God completely unifies with the Earth, enabling the regeneration of all souls who are saved. BTW, this all precedes the Battle of Armageddon, which occurs about 2 years later in 2020 AD. Most people don't know this because there are certain things one has to know to understand the time of the Second Coming.

 

[Ahwatukee]

This will surprise you all, but the Rapture occurs very shortly after Christ lands on Earth at the end of the 45 days of the Abomination of Desolation. According to my calculations, this is February 6th, 2018.

Hello truthman8,

Your conclusion above runs into the same problem that all mid and post-tribbers have, that being according to scripture, Jesus rescues us from the coming wrath (1 Thes.1:10) and we are not appointed to suffer God's wrath (1 Thes.5:9), which means that the church must be removed prior to God's wrath begins to be poured out via the seals, trumpets and bowl judgments. Christ does not return to the earth until after the 7th bowl judgment has been poured out, which completes God's wrath (Rev.15:1). As proof of this, after the 6th bowl has been poured out, Jesus interjects the following information:

"Look, I come like a thief! Blessed is the one who stays awake and remains clothed, so as not to go naked and be shamefully exposed.”

The 1335 days begins from the setting up of the abomination (Dan. 12:11-12), which takes place in the middle of the seven years which hasn't happened yet. Regarding this time period, Jesus said:

"it would be a time of great distress such as the world has not see from the beginning of creation, until now and never to be equaled again. If those day had not been shortened, no one would be left alive on the earth."

Needless to say, we are currently not living in the worst time in history. Furthermore, the making of the seven year covenant, is synonymous with the opening of the first seal, which is represented by the antichrist as being the rider on the white horse and he has not yet been revealed nor has there been a seven year covenant made with Israel. In addition to all of this, the church must be removed prior to the first seal being opened.

According to my calculations, this is February 6th, 2018

Regarding the above, there is a valid reason as to why Jesus said, "no man knows the day nor the hour," which always amazes me when people make these predictions. The only way to understand when the abomination is going to be set up, is when that antichrist initiates that seven year covenant and according to scripture we know that will take place in the middle of the seven years, which would be 3 1/2 years after the covenant has been made. Other than that, there is no way to figure out when the abomination will be set up.

The return of Christ to gather believers, dead and living, is imminent and is what every believer should be anticipating and watching for. This is the "blessed hope," Wherefore comfort one another with these words. If the church were to go through God's wrath, then there would not be a blessed hope nor would it be a comfort.

 

[20]

We can't calculate this day and time of His coming.And we don't need to do that. KJV. Matthew25;13,13. Wach therefore, for you know neither the day nor the hour wherein the Son of Man cometh.; It's OK with us on this way.Real Christians walk with Him in their life by His faith. He take care of them all the time. KJV.Philippians4;6, Be careful for nothing; but in every thing by prayer and supplication with thanksgiving let your requests be made known unto God.; He going prepare us for His coming.He's going resolve this problem for us too.We have His promise on this way in here; KJV.1Thessalonians3;12-13,12 .And the Lord make you to increase and abound in love one toward another, and toward all men, even as we do toward you;13.To the end He may stablish your hearts unblameable in holiness before God, even Our Father, at the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ with all His Saints.Have a faith, Please, And you got everything from Him.

 

[popeye]

Yeah, I probably will fail by relying on myself, but when you folks can read the same passage of scripture and interpret it different ways, it's confusing as all get out to new people who have questions. How can I know what to believe? How can I trust that you tell the truth and aren't just trying to get me to believe what you believe even if you're wrong? When I see you folks arguing about stuff, I make a list of all the people involved so I know who to avoid asking questions to.

You did this once before.

You're a victim,no wait you're a genius,no wait,you're a theologian,no,wait,you're suffering from bad company,no wait you're a psychiatrist........

How about giving everyone the break you expect from us?

 

[popeye]

This will surprise you all, but the Rapture occurs very shortly after Christ lands on Earth at the end of the 45 days of the Abomination of Desolation. According to my calculations, this is February 6th, 2018. It is the end of the 1335 days of the "tribulation" period, which started on June 12th, when Hamas and the Palestinians increased the violence against Israel. There is much more to explain, and I don't have time tonight to tell you. But there is no pre-tribulation rapture. IT is either simultaneous with Christ's landing, or a few days after He cleanses the new temple and removes the TV broadcasting station called the "abomination of desolation", mentioned by Daniel, Jesus, and Revelation. This prepares Earth for the 8th day, which is the union of physical and spiritual life. The Spirit of God completely unifies with the Earth, enabling the regeneration of all souls who are saved. BTW, this all precedes the Battle of Armageddon, which occurs about 2 years later in 2020 AD. Most people don't know this because there are certain things one has to know to understand the time of the Second Coming.

"as it was in the days of noah..."
"as it was in the days of Lot..."

There was no boogeyman in either analogy.

 

[tannerbrody]

It already happened. Jehovah Witness predicted it would happen in 1914. According to watchtower documents, Jesus was caught off guard by WWI and decieded to wait. (i'm not making this up)

Here's what we do know....
"However, when that one arrives, the spirit of the truth, he will guide YOU into all the truth, for he will not speak of his own impulse, but what things he hears he will speak, and he will declare to YOU the things coming." John 16:13

 

[PlainWord]

My mind doesn't wonder about it...


Acts 1:

[SUP]9[/SUP] And when he had spoken these things, while they beheld, he was taken up; and a cloud received him out of their sight. [SUP]10[/SUP] And while they looked stedfastly toward heaven as he went up, behold, two men stood by them in white apparel; [SUP]11[/SUP] Which also said, Ye men of Galilee, why stand ye gazing up into heaven? this same Jesus, which is taken up from you into heaven, shall so come in like manner as ye have seen him go into heaven.


The Bible tells us what to expect when Jesus returns. Therefore, if you "see Jesus" -- and the circumstances of it do not match what the Bible says -- it is not Jesus!

For example -- if it should happen that someone "appears on the scene" -- claiming to be Jesus -- and, telling the world that it should 'unify' into a New Age Religion ---- it is not Jesus.

It's not going to be a new age religion. It is ISLAM, radical ISLAM to be exact. But the rest of your post is spot on. The "person" who appears will be the Mahdi, the one the Muslims have been waiting for to unite them. The Mahdi is the Man of Sin spoken of by Paul.

 

[popeye]

It's not going to be a new age religion. It is ISLAM, radical ISLAM to be exact. But the rest of your post is spot on. The "person" who appears will be the Mahdi, the one the Muslims have been waiting for to unite them. The Mahdi is the Man of Sin spoken of by Paul.

Neither of you saw "like manner"

Neither of you read the instruction manual. You both grab and slam stuff together.

It is laying there (like manner)

Pick it up,look at it,understand the machine operates all wacko without it,and wonder why all the other dynamics you guys shoved off the table,are in the manual to begin with.

LIKE MANNER
LIKE MANNER
LIKE MANNER


Without that little piece,the machine sits all dilapidated,and the answer from the factory was in the book all along.

 

[popeye]

It already happened. Jehovah Witness predicted it would happen in 1914. According to watchtower documents, Jesus was caught off guard by WWI and decieded to wait. (i'm not making this up)

Here's what we do know....
"However, when that one arrives, the spirit of the truth, he will guide YOU into all the truth, for he will not speak of his own impulse, but what things he hears he will speak, and he will declare to YOU the things coming." John 16:13

What point is being made here?

 

[PlainWord]

Neither of you saw "like manner"

Neither of you read the instruction manual. You both grab and slam stuff together.

It is laying there (like manner)

Pick it up,look at it,understand the machine operates all wacko without it,and wonder why all the other dynamics you guys shoved off the table,are in the manual to begin with.

LIKE MANNER
LIKE MANNER
LIKE MANNER


Without that little piece,the machine sits all dilapidated,and the answer from the factory was in the book all along.

What does "Like Manner" have to do with Mystery Babylon being ISLAM?

 

[PlainWord]

CHRIST LEAVES EARTH:

...He was taken up; and a cloud received Him out of their sight... this same Jesus, which is taken up from you into heaven, shall so come in like manner as ye have seen Him go into heaven (Acts 1:9-11).

This simply means Jesus returns the same way they saw Him leave.

CHRIST RETURNS TO EARTH:

...and then all the tribes of the earth will mourn, and they will see the Son of Man coming on the clouds of heaven with power and great glory (Mat 24:30).

[SUP]14 [/SUP]And the armies in heaven, clothed in fine linen, white and clean, followed Him on white horses (Rev 19).

He returns the same way He left. "like manner" = "same way"

He left with "Clouds of Heaven" and returns with "Clouds of Heaven."

 

[popeye]

CHRIST LEAVES EARTH:

...He was taken up; and a cloud received Him out of their sight... this same Jesus, which is taken up from you into heaven, shall so come in like manner as ye have seen Him go into heaven (Acts 1:9-11).

This simply means Jesus returns the same way they saw Him leave.

CHRIST RETURNS TO EARTH:

...and then all the tribes of the earth will mourn, and they will see the Son of Man coming on the clouds of heaven with power and great glory (Mat 24:30).

[SUP]14 [/SUP]And the armies in heaven, clothed in fine linen, white and clean, followed Him on white horses (Rev 19).

He returns the same way He left. "like manner" = "same way"

He left with "Clouds of Heaven" and returns with "Clouds of Heaven."

You just proved the 2nd coming is not "like" the rapture.

........and you are oblivious to it.

Like manner. He returns for his church w/o power,w/o horses,w/o war,in love not judgement,slays noone, etc,etc.

Like manner.

Your template is way,way off.

 

[PlainWord]

You just proved the 2nd coming is not "like" the rapture.

........and you are oblivious to it.

Like manner. He returns for his church w/o power,w/o horses,w/o war,in love not judgement,slays noone, etc,etc.

Like manner.

Your template is way,way off.

What passages do you have that teach there is an earlier "secret" and "quiet" return? This thinking is hogwash. He was speaking to His closest supports and friends in Acts 1, correct? I assume you believe those disciples who witnessed His ascension were saved? So why would He not tell them about the earlier, quiet, secret rapture return which they would be taking part in and instead skip it and discuss His Second Coming, with power judgment return, which they would not be part of?

There is only one return my friend and it is just they way He left, in Power with Angels from Heaven escorting Him.

 

[Hepsibah]

According to 2 Thessalonians 2 :1,2 the Thessalonians believed that the coming of Lord Jesus and the gathering of saints could have happened secretly even without their knowledge.

And Paul did not dispute about that. He only clarified that it can happen only after the man of sin is revealed.

Matthew 25:10- Those who were ready went in with Him to the wedding.
Luke 12:35- you be like men who wait for the master when he will return from the wedding

 

[popeye]

What passages do you have that teach there is an earlier "secret" and "quiet" return? This thinking is hogwash. He was speaking to His closest supports and friends in Acts 1, correct? I assume you believe those disciples who witnessed His ascension were saved? So why would He not tell them about the earlier, quiet, secret rapture return which they would be taking part in and instead skip it and discuss His Second Coming, with power judgment return, which they would not be part of?

There is only one return my friend and it is just they way He left, in Power with Angels from Heaven escorting Him.

harvest is 4 parts.

He returns with those he harvested.

the one with a sickle in the clouds is one of the 4 harvests DURING THE GT.

You have no case

Set,match,game

 

[GaryA]

the one with a sickle in the clouds is one of the 4 harvests DURING THE GT.

Revelation 14:

[SUP]14[/SUP] And I looked, and behold a white cloud, and upon the cloud one sat like unto the Son of man, having on his head a golden crown, and in his hand a sharp sickle.


This is Jesus.


And, you are saying that the event occurs "during the Great Tribulation"...?

 

[Beloved777]

Is the Church in the Tribulation?

In all of God's wrath and judgments on the world and in its tribulations, God has never removed his Church (people of God) from the sphere of the danger, but has always protected her in (kept her from) the danger:

1) Noah in the flood (Ge 7:7),
2) Lot in the plain (Ge 19:17-18, 21, 25), not in the mountains,
3) Israel in the plagues (Ex 8:22, 9:4, 26, 10:22-23, 11:7, 12:13),
4) Elijah in the famine (1Kgs 17:1-7),
5) youths in the fiery furnace (Da 3),
6) Daniel in the lions' den (Da 6),
7) woman on the earth (Rev 12:14-16), who is a symbol of God's people, the Church (male child is the seed of the woman--Ge 3:15, which is the body of Christ).

And just as God has protected his Church in past judgments and tribulations, so he will protect his Church in future judgments and tribulations (2Pe 2:5-9; Rev 3:10, 9:4, 12:6, 14; cf Eccl 1:9, 3:15). The removal of the Church from the earth before the great tribulation is a notion of man without any specific Biblical basis.

The Bible teaches that the Church will be kept from undergoing wrath (1Th 1:10, 5:9; Ro 5:9; Rev 9:3-4) and will be kept spiritually through tribulation (Lk 21:12-18; Jn 16:33; 1Pe 1:5; Jas 1:12, 5:10-11), to which the believer is destined (1Th 3:3; Jn 15:20; Mk 10:30; Ac 5:40, 14:22; 2Ti 3:12; 1Pe 4:12; Ph 1:29) for the purifying and strengthening of his faith (Jas 1:2-4; 1Pe 1:6-7). Believers in the past and present have not been exempt from the tribulations of their times, and neither will the believers of the future.

Much misunderstanding of prophecy comes from seeing the visions of Revelation as a successive chronology, which then causes duplication of events and things which are the same (e.g., Rev 11:18-19, 14:17-20, 16:12-21, 19:11-21, 20:7-10).
The structure of the visions in the book of Daniel is the key to the structure of the visions in Revelation.

The visions in Daniel were the sum of prophecy revealed by the Son of Man (Da 10:4-9)
from the book of God's eternal decrees (Da 10:21, 12:1)
regarding the OT church (Da 2:28, 8:26, 10:14) and its end (Da 8:19).

And the visions in Revelation are the sum of prophecy revealed by the Son of Man (Rev 1:12-18)
from the book of God's eternal decrees (Rev 5:1-5, 6:1, 10:1-4, 8-10, 20:12)
regarding the NT church (Rev 1:19, 10:11) and its earthly end (Rev 10:7, 11:18, 16:17, 21:6).

The visions in Daniel, which is the structure for the visions in Revelation, are not a successive chronology, but are four progressive parallelisms (chp 2; 7; 8; 10-12) interpreted by Daniel, which progressively reveal more details of the same events and persons each time (as are the eight visions in Zec 1-6).

Likewise with the visions in Revelation. Rather than a successive chronology, they are seven progressive parallelisms (chp 1-3; 4-7; 8-11; 12-14; 15-16; 17-19; 20-22), each revealing more detail of the same events and things.

And as the numbers and time frame regarding the OT church in Da 9:24-27 are not literal, so the numbers and time frame regarding the NT church in Revelation are not literal.
It is seeing Revelation as a literal successive chronology that is the basis for much private (not Scriptural interpretation as in Daniel) uncertain interpretation of prophetic riddles today that is contradictory to the clear, unequivocal and certain word of God (2Th 12:6-10, 2:1-8).

Mark 13:24-27 - "But in those days after the tribulation, the sun shall be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light. And the stars of heaven shall fall and the powers that are in heaven shall be shaken. And then (after the tribulation) shall they see the Son of man coming in the clouds with great power and glory. And then (after the tribulation) shall he send his angels, and shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from the uttermost part of the earth to the uttermost part of heaven."