When does the rapture occur?
- Thread starter Elin
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A
I have to agree. Even if there is a pre-tribulation rapture...that doesn't necessarily mean that Christians today...even in america will not have to endure suffering or persecution before it happens. Jesus said that a servant is not greater than his master. He suffered so why should we think that we are any better? Whether we believe in a pre-mid-post trib rapture or not...what we believe will not chnage or alter God's time table. He is not subject to us.
G
I pretty much like 1 Cor 15 for my eschatalogical base
and parallel it with the Words of Jesus in the gospels.
and parallel it with the Words of Jesus in the gospels.
This is how whole separate denominations have come about. (As I know you are well aware.)
Instead, we should have a balanced across-all-scripture base for interpretation.
If we should happen to misinterpret the single central / core verse or passage that we wrap everything else around -- we really place ourselves "out in left field" for sure...
G
I pretty much like 1 Cor 15 for my eschatalogical base
and parallel it with the Words of Jesus in the gospels.
and parallel it with the Words of Jesus in the gospels.
Noah was not taken out of the sphere of danger. He was not removed from the flood, but protected in the flood.
And in none of the other examples were they removed from the sphere of danger.
Aw, cheese crackers, Trax,
Read the texts relating to Lot.
"Don't stop anywhere in the plain! Flee to the mountains or you will be swept away!"
Lot did not go to the mountains,
and God rained down burning sulfur on the entire plain, not just Sodom and Gomorrah,
but saved Lot in the plain.
Lot was not removed from the sphere of danger, but protected in the danger.
Does it?
Did Noah and Lot experience God's wrath?
They did not. God protected them without removing from the sphere in which his wrath occurred.
Only one man was left after God rained down burning sulfur on the plain, but saved Lot.
Only Noah's family was left after God flooded the world, but saved Noah's family.
It won't be any different in Isa 24:6, where a few will be left.
God's people are always few in the world.
And in none of the other examples were they removed from the sphere of danger.
Aw, cheese crackers, Trax,
Read the texts relating to Lot.
"Don't stop anywhere in the plain! Flee to the mountains or you will be swept away!"
Lot did not go to the mountains,
and God rained down burning sulfur on the entire plain, not just Sodom and Gomorrah,
but saved Lot in the plain.
Lot was not removed from the sphere of danger, but protected in the danger.
Does it?
Did Noah and Lot experience God's wrath?
They did not. God protected them without removing from the sphere in which his wrath occurred.
Only one man was left after God rained down burning sulfur on the plain, but saved Lot.
Only Noah's family was left after God flooded the world, but saved Noah's family.
It won't be any different in Isa 24:6, where a few will be left.
God's people are always few in the world.
A
Brother - that is how many people "go wrong" in their interpretation of scripture -- basing it on a single verse or passage and wrapping the rest of scripture around it...
This is how whole separate denominations have come about. (As I know you are well aware.)
Instead, we should have a balanced across-all-scripture base for interpretation.
If we should happen to misinterpret the single central / core verse or passage that we wrap everything else around -- we really place ourselves "out in left field" for sure...
This is how whole separate denominations have come about. (As I know you are well aware.)
Instead, we should have a balanced across-all-scripture base for interpretation.
If we should happen to misinterpret the single central / core verse or passage that we wrap everything else around -- we really place ourselves "out in left field" for sure...
I dont agree i think the problem is that people just dont read. First of all i didnt say a "verse" i
said a 58verse chapter.
I also said as a "base" only, in parallel with what Jesus taught.
So to repeat....1 Cor 15 in parallel with Jesus teachings are the "base" for me. A base is the foundation.
I never said you dont take the whole council of God on the matter. You do. But you shouldnt start
with revelation as a base, or Matthew 24 as a base. People need a structure to build on.
What goes on is people start with the roof then try to build a building then try to build a foundation.
I do Restoration work and know how difficult that is.
To understand my point youd have to go read the chapter because it has the facts when Jesus comes.
To take the last book in the Bible and make that your starting ground to me is why there is a big problem.
A
Yes - I know you used the word 'parallel' - which is good! It fits in well with the idea of 'balance' that I was talking about. However, we should take that idea to its [reasonable] limit -- not ignoring or "setting aside" or putting a label-of-convenience (i.e., "oh, that is just symbolic judgment language") on any [relevant] part of the whole of scripture. Doing so may rob us of important details in the "bigger picture" of it all...
If you dont think there is a language in prophetic scripture and always has been
your just in denial. Show me any chapter in any prophetic book that isnt
chuck full of symbolic language.
Show me any judgement prophecies that doesnt use symbolic language.
Why are you taking a jab at me GRA? Do you have anything in mind where i wrongly
called something symbolic when it was literal?
That is correct. The word "rapture" itself is not used in the Greek.
The Greek word used is harpazo - "to catch up"
"the dead in Christ will rise first. After that, we who are still alive will be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air." (1Th 4:16-17)
The Greek word harpazo was translated into English as "rapture" - "act of transporting, or fact of being transported"
And it occurs with the resurrection (1Th 4:16-17) when nature is liberated from decay (Ro 8:19-21) at the revealing of the sons of God (resurrection) at the end of time.
Yes, it is the word of God in 1Th 4:16-17 that makes it so prevalent.
The Greek word used is harpazo - "to catch up"
"the dead in Christ will rise first. After that, we who are still alive will be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air." (1Th 4:16-17)
The Greek word harpazo was translated into English as "rapture" - "act of transporting, or fact of being transported"
And it occurs with the resurrection (1Th 4:16-17) when nature is liberated from decay (Ro 8:19-21) at the revealing of the sons of God (resurrection) at the end of time.
Yes, it is the word of God in 1Th 4:16-17 that makes it so prevalent.
A
1 Corinthians 15:23-25
[SUP]23 [/SUP]But each one in his own order: Christ the firstfruits, afterward those who are Christ’s at His coming.[SUP]24 [/SUP]Then comes the end, when He delivers the kingdom to God the Father, when He puts an end to ALL rule and ALL authority and power. [SUP]25 [/SUP]For He must reign till He has put ALL enemies under His feet
[SUP]23 [/SUP]But each one in his own order: Christ the firstfruits, afterward those who are Christ’s at His coming.[SUP]24 [/SUP]Then comes the end, when He delivers the kingdom to God the Father, when He puts an end to ALL rule and ALL authority and power. [SUP]25 [/SUP]For He must reign till He has put ALL enemies under His feet
I apologize if I mistook your words. If you meant as in date and time I did misunderstand; on that I would say no one can give date and time but this is what I advise: when you see Jerusalem being surrounded and evacuated, well, don't bother to grab your toothbrush.
As in the timing of the 'rapture' and our departure from the here and now, I still go by my previous post.
As in the timing of the 'rapture' and our departure from the here and now, I still go by my previous post.
Yes Christ rules now in the kingdom of God, which is invisible. And yes that kingdom is within us. But when He returns it will be us who are inside the kingdom.
When Christ returns we are caught up to meet Him. In OT times when someone was coming to your land you would go out and meet them, then escort them back to your land. When Christ gathers us, it is not He who meets us then turns around to go home, it is we who are meeting Him, and who turn around. So His intention is to continue on into our land, and restore man's authorty over this creation as God intended it to be.
Scripture references may be found in my blog posts if you really gotta have them.
As for Christ ruling in the hearts of man, well, it's things like that that make me want to stand up in church and scream "do you people even see what's going on outside in society?" Jesus rules my heart, He rules your heart, but He most DEFINITELY does not rule the heart of current man. That's WHY He's got to come back.
When Christ returns we are caught up to meet Him. In OT times when someone was coming to your land you would go out and meet them, then escort them back to your land. When Christ gathers us, it is not He who meets us then turns around to go home, it is we who are meeting Him, and who turn around. So His intention is to continue on into our land, and restore man's authorty over this creation as God intended it to be.
Scripture references may be found in my blog posts if you really gotta have them.
As for Christ ruling in the hearts of man, well, it's things like that that make me want to stand up in church and scream "do you people even see what's going on outside in society?" Jesus rules my heart, He rules your heart, but He most DEFINITELY does not rule the heart of current man. That's WHY He's got to come back.
A
Jesus isnt ruling a symbolic rule but its spiritual. Do you have a King?
are you seated in the Heavenlies? Are you in the kingdom?
Are you bornagain spiritually? Worshiping in Spirit and truth?
You dont think Jesus is ruling now?
[h=3]Colossians 1:14[/h]
[SUP]13 [/SUP]Who hath delivered us from the power of darkness, and hath translated us into the kingdom of his dear Son:
are you seated in the Heavenlies? Are you in the kingdom?
Are you bornagain spiritually? Worshiping in Spirit and truth?
You dont think Jesus is ruling now?
[h=3]Colossians 1:14[/h]
[SUP]13 [/SUP]Who hath delivered us from the power of darkness, and hath translated us into the kingdom of his dear Son:
A
Nope 1 cor 15:[SUP]23 [/SUP]But every man in his own order: Christ the firstfruits; afterward they that are Christ's at his coming.[SUP]24 [/SUP]Then cometh the end, when he shall have delivered up the kingdom to God, even the Father; when he shall have put down all rule and all authority and power.