When does the rapture occur?

[zone]

Abiding and zone like this.

And for the two of you that may be true.

now Ricky....the rapture can be whenever we want it to be.
it's not important!

i think what's important is that we stop even worrying about any of this stuff.
why even discuss it!

i'll go with pretrib - or whatever is most popular.
that's the best thing.

and a future 1,000 years....why not!
it'll be exciting!

i wish i knew what happens during it....but that doesn't matter either.
love ya
zone

 

[Abiding]

RickyZAs for Christ ruling in the hearts of man, well, it's things like that that make me want to stand up in church and scream "do you people even see what's going on outside in society?" Jesus rules my heart, He rules your heart, but He most DEFINITELY does not rule the heart of current man. That's WHY He's got to come back.

1 Cor 15:25 For He must rein, till he hath put all enemies under his feet.[SUP]26 [/SUP]The last enemy that shall be destroyed is death.
[SUP]27 [/SUP]For he hath put all things under his feet. But when he saith all things are put under him, it is manifest that he is excepted, which did put all things under him.
[SUP]28 [/SUP]And when all things shall be subdued unto him, then shall the Son also himself be subject unto him that put all things under him, that God may be all in all.

So where is He reigning from......how long? until what.
See Ricky He doesnt reign over the enemies, He puts them under His feet.

 

[BarlyGurl]

i see your indignation.. but doesn't the outside of the congregation look about the same as inside these days???

 

[Abiding]

i see your indignation.. but doesn't the outside of the congregation look about the same as inside these days???

yu takin to me?

 

[zone]

i love that part....lol

you swiped that from me btw....but, i have already forgotten it...it's not a sin is it?
and one day i hope God will make me disappear from my body and i will be God. so it won't matter at all then.
i want to be saved.
trying to figure out how.

 

[tribesman]

isn't that greasy grace or something?
shouldn't we be preaching repentance?

...from anything and everything except for self- and works righteousness, false gospels and various blasphemies...since they are just "mistakes". Just be moralistic and enthusiastic and look clean and nice and you'll be alright.

 

[RickyZ]

Nope 1 cor 15:[SUP]23 [/SUP]But every man in his own order: Christ the firstfruits; afterward they that are Christ's at his coming.[SUP]24 [/SUP]Then cometh the end, when he shall have delivered ​up the kingdom to God, even the Father; when he shall have put down all rule and all authority and power.

Yes, everything you say is true, but that is at the end of this age, not the end of this creation. The words 'when he shall have put down all rule and all authority and power', WHERE has he put these things down? We've already agreed that He already rules in the Heavelies, where other than the here and now would He have then to put down these things?

Jesus reigns in the Heavenlies. His enemies riegn here and now. When He returns He will put those enemies under His feet, bound and unable to act while He reigns over us in the restored creation. When He has had His time here, those enemies will be loosed for one final attack before He does away with it all and reigns over a new creation. Jesus is always reigning, it's just a question of where and at what time.

Rev. 18 shows that satan is bound and unable to act for the 1000 years Christ rules. Does our world look like satan is unable to act at the present time? And even if you say 'well that's just in us believers', I would repeat, does the content of these forums really sound like satan is unable to act among believers? Throw all the verses you want at me, all I know is that the world outside our steeples is full of kaos and sick peoples, and that Jesus' rule both for and beyond believers would never look like that. That is indeed the whole point of the millenium... to showcase just what this creation can be under His rule.

I have a chapter on this that has scripture references.

http://christianchat.com/blogs/rickyz/250-6-what-will-millennium-like.html

Chapter 7 on the Bride of Christ might interest you too. That for sure would be fodder for debate!

 

[nathan3]

Yes, everything you say is true, but that is at the end of this age, not the end of this creation. The words 'when he shall have put down all rule and all authority and power', WHERE has he put these things down? We've already agreed that He already rules in the Heavelies, where other than the here and now would He have then to put down these things?

Jesus reigns in the Heavenlies. His enemies riegn here and now. When He returns He will put those enemies under His feet, bound and unable to act while He reigns over us in the restored creation. When He has had His time here, those enemies will be loosed for one final attack before He does away with it all and reigns over a new creation. Jesus is always reigning, it's just a question of where and at what time.

Rev. 18 shows that satan is bound and unable to act for the 1000 years Christ rules. Does our world look like satan is unable to act at the present time? And even if you say 'well that's just in us believers', I would repeat, does the content of these forums really sound like satan is unable to act among believers? Throw all the verses you want at me, all I know is that the world outside our steeples is full of kaos and sick peoples, and that Jesus' rule both for and beyond believers would never look like that. That is indeed the whole point of the millenium... to showcase just what this creation can be under His rule.

I have a chapter on this that has scripture references.

http://christianchat.com/blogs/rickyz/250-6-what-will-millennium-like.html

Chapter 7 on the Bride of Christ might interest you too. That for sure would be fodder for debate!

well I think your on the right track with the millennium. I have not read the link . Just going on what you wrote here.

 

[RickyZ]

Someone said they were going to make another post related to this, but I haven't seen it. I'd be curious to see what a poll would say about it.

 

[Anonimous]

I just sorta let that up to God. He seems to be pretty good at accomplishing His will and plans at just the right time. I've seen an example of where He consults us and asks, "How will that work for you? Not good? Well, get back with me when it's a good time."

It is probably better to let God handles things...

(II Peter 3:9) Peter said, " The Lord is not slack concerning His promise, as some men count slackness; but is long suffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentence."

Not everyone will come to repentence...that just won't happen...we know that...Could it be that in His infinite wisdom that He knows full well the very name of the last to repent and He is just waiting for that one person? Just that one! Do you see His great patience?

(II Peter 3:11) Peter also says, " Seeing then that all these things shall be dissolved, what manner of persons ought you to be in all coversation (conduct) and godliness..."

Don't get me wrong on this. I pray everyday for His return. Sometimes I even think my very spirit groans for it. Then I remember the people who may be trying to decide right now if they will trust Him. I know there WILL come an appointed time when He will say, "enough is enough..."

I think Peter also says in that verse that since we do know what the world will be going through...that we should consider ourselves. Are we living the way we are meant to be living as a believer?

I've seen an example of where He consults us and asks, "How will that work for you? Not good? Well, get back with me when it's a good time."


Ooop. That should have read, "I've never seen..."

 

[Anonimous]

Someone said they were going to make another post related to this, but I haven't seen it. I'd be curious to see what a poll would say about it.

I saw a poll last week but forget the numbers.

 

[Elin]

Yes Christ rules now in the kingdom of God, which is invisible. And yes that kingdom is within us. But when He returns it will be us who are inside the kingdom.

When Christ returns we are caught up to meet Him. In OT times when someone was coming to your land you would go out and meet them, then escort them back to your land. When Christ gathers us, it is not He who meets us then turns around to go home, it is we who are meeting Him, and who turn around. So His intention is to continue on into our land,

I think the Greek word for that is parousia, and Jesus' entry into Jerusalem on Palm Sunday would be an example of going out to meet the dignatary and accompanying him back into the city.

His second coming will also be a parousia.

and restore man's authorty over this creation as God intended it to be.

The apostles teach that we accompany him back to earth for the final judgment and the end of time.

The restoration is of the old creation into the new creation in the new heavens and new earth (2Pe 3:12-13).

It is not a restoration of man's authority over creation, nor a restoration of Israel.

As for Christ ruling in the hearts of man, well, it's things like that that make me want to stand up in church and scream "do you people even see what's going on outside in society?" Jesus rules my heart, He rules your heart, but He most DEFINITELY does not rule the heart of current man. That's WHY He's got to come back.

There is no promise that God will rule the hearts of the world.

The world is headed for destruction.

We are called out of the world, not to make it better.

 

[Abiding]

Yes, everything you say is true, but that is at the end of this age, not the end of this creation. The words 'when he shall have put down all rule and all authority and power', WHERE has he put these things down? We've already agreed that He already rules in the Heavelies, where other than the here and now would He have then to put down these things?

Jesus reigns in the Heavenlies. His enemies riegn here and now. When He returns He will put those enemies under His feet, bound and unable to act while He reigns over us in the restored creation. When He has had His time here, those enemies will be loosed for one final attack before He does away with it all and reigns over a new creation. Jesus is always reigning, it's just a question of where and at what time.

Rev. 18 shows that satan is bound and unable to act for the 1000 years Christ rules. Does our world look like satan is unable to act at the present time? And even if you say 'well that's just in us believers', I would repeat, does the content of these forums really sound like satan is unable to act among believers? Throw all the verses you want at me, all I know is that the world outside our steeples is full of kaos and sick peoples, and that Jesus' rule both for and beyond believers would never look like that. That is indeed the whole point of the millenium... to showcase just what this creation can be under His rule.

I have a chapter on this that has scripture references.

http://christianchat.com/blogs/rickyz/250-6-what-will-millennium-like.html

Chapter 7 on the Bride of Christ might interest you too. That for sure would be fodder for debate!

Ricky that wont work read the whole chapter a couple times. After He puts all things under His feet
then death also will be put under His feet. Then the eternal state. No other kingdom with death and
enemies because thats already been taken care of. Its a very easy text.

 

[Abiding]

Someone said they were going to make another post related to this, but I haven't seen it. I'd be curious to see what a poll would say about it.

The reason eschatology is so hard to
figure is God is waiting for that guy

 

[Elin]

The reason eschatology is so hard to
figure is God is waiting for that guy

Ur killin' me again!

 

[BarlyGurl]

[h=2]When does the rapture occur?[/h]TONIGHT!!!!!

 

[RickyZ]

Could be... and wha, you don't think we get a vote?

 

[GRA]

I pretty much like 1 Cor 15 for my eschatalogical base
and parallel it with the Words of Jesus in the gospels.

Brother - that is how many people "go wrong" in their interpretation of scripture -- basing it on a single verse or passage and wrapping the rest of scripture around it...

This is how whole separate denominations have come about. (As I know you are well aware.)

Instead, we should have a balanced across-all-scripture base for interpretation.

If we should happen to misinterpret the single central / core verse or passage that we wrap everything else around -- we really place ourselves "out in left field" for sure...

Yes - I know you used the word 'parallel' - which is good! It fits in well with the idea of 'balance' that I was talking about. However, we should take that idea to its [reasonable] limit -- not ignoring or "setting aside" or putting a label-of-convenience (i.e., "oh, that is just symbolic judgment language") on any [relevant] part of the whole of scripture. Doing so may rob us of important details in the "bigger picture" of it all...

I dont agree i think the problem is that people just dont read. First of all i didnt say a "verse" i
said a 58verse chapter.

I also said as a "base" only, in parallel with what Jesus taught.

So to repeat....1 Cor 15 in parallel with Jesus teachings are the "base" for me. A base is the foundation.
I never said you dont take the whole council of God on the matter. You do. But you shouldnt start
with revelation as a base, or Matthew 24 as a base. People need a structure to build on.

What goes on is people start with the roof then try to build a building then try to build a foundation.
I do Restoration work and know how difficult that is.

To understand my point youd have to go read the chapter because it has the facts when Jesus comes.

To take the last book in the Bible and make that your starting ground to me is why there is a big problem.

Im not aware that the words i put on stuff are wrong...Point them out.
If you dont think there is a language in prophetic scripture and always has been
your just in denial. Show me any chapter in any prophetic book that isnt
chuck full of symbolic language.

Show me any judgement prophecies that doesnt use symbolic language.

Why are you taking a jab at me GRA? Do you have anything in mind where i wrongly
called something symbolic when it was literal?

Abiding:

It is not my intent to "take a jab at you"; but, rather - to get you to thinking...

'58 verse chapter' => "passage"

Let me repeat what I believe our 'base' ought to be:

Instead, we should have a balanced across-all-scripture base for interpretation.

A prophecy may be stated in Revelation or Matthew 24 -- however, it must be in agreement with all of scripture.

In spite of what you may think - or insinuate - I do not make any book, or any chapter of any book, my 'base' for interpretation. I am "very big on" the idea that ALL interpretation MUST be in agreement with ALL of scripture - and try very diligently to follow the ideal represented in the above quoted statement.

But you shouldnt start with revelation as a base, or Matthew 24 as a base.

Nonetheless, this statement makes me wonder why you believe that '1 Cor 15' (a chapter of a book) is worthy of using as a base for interpretation whereas Matthew 24 (a chapter of book) or Revelation (a whole book) should not be...???

Interesting...

I have read the chapter - many times... And, I sincerely believe that you are misinterpreting [part of] it. And, if and when I can find a good time to show you why I believe this - I have the "good intent" to do so.

The 'key' to properly discovering / interpreting / understanding 'literal' versus 'symbolic' is [obviously] knowing how to tell the difference...

( I am not saying by any means that I have a 'lock' on it. However, I do believe that my understanding of scripture with regards to this is generally fairly solid. Of course, most of us do - right? )

Do you have anything in mind where i wrongly called something symbolic when it was literal?

Yes - absolutely. I will try to address it later - in another thread - I do not want to take any more away from this one...

 

[nathan3]

Christ is coming her to establish His kingdom on earth , why would He have the need to take anyone anywhere, when all the scriptures state, He is coming here? .

After all that, there are still scriptures that need to be read and taught, that clearly teach, there is no such thing as rapture, and Christ never taught it. No one did.

The word is not even in the Bible, nether is the thought... Why is it so hard to follow the subject of what is being read?

 

[Blain]

Actually the rapture itself is taught in the bible, the word rapture is just mans name for the event but it is very real my friend as you will soon see