When does the rapture occur?
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amen..... sobering thought.... the world church and the world government has all along been being summed up in the antichrist/ beast/ control.... rcc and phrmk being its right arm and left arm with hasatan as the head and power behind it.....
there is no chance for the rcc nor for the phrmk to be redeemed. they are completely evil and wicked beyond anyone's comprehension.....
there is no chance for the rcc nor for the phrmk to be redeemed. they are completely evil and wicked beyond anyone's comprehension.....
G
"You have a point, there..." 
However, I was referring to the worst time that could fit into the prophecy --- after it was spoken...
And, I was trying to make the point of it being in the 'collective' sense.
This is why people "just can't believe" that anything past can possibly be part of any "tribulation" period ( such as the Great Tribulation ). They assume that the tribulation referred to in the Bible MUST be worse than anything anyone has ever seen TO DATE. It is an erroneous mindset that keeps people from seeing the simple, straight-forward truth:
"Some of this End Times prophetic stuff in the Bible has already happened."
Why do people not allow themselves to believe that the cruel satanic evil that is in the world today can possibly be indicated by prophecy? Do people simply want it to be "worse"...??? --- and, are they simply unwilling to "accept any less"...???
Why is it that people "just can't accept" that the modern-day "horrors" of evil in the world "could possibly" be considered to be part of "Great Tribulation"...??? --- are they not 'horrible' enough...???
How bad would you like it to get before you would consider that it "could possibly" be part of "Great Tribulation"...???
When I look at end times prophecy, I see things past, present, and future -- part has already happened, part is happening now, and part is yet to happen...
However, I was referring to the worst time that could fit into the prophecy --- after it was spoken...
And, I was trying to make the point of it being in the 'collective' sense.
This is why people "just can't believe" that anything past can possibly be part of any "tribulation" period ( such as the Great Tribulation ). They assume that the tribulation referred to in the Bible MUST be worse than anything anyone has ever seen TO DATE. It is an erroneous mindset that keeps people from seeing the simple, straight-forward truth:
"Some of this End Times prophetic stuff in the Bible has already happened."
Why do people not allow themselves to believe that the cruel satanic evil that is in the world today can possibly be indicated by prophecy? Do people simply want it to be "worse"...??? --- and, are they simply unwilling to "accept any less"...???
Why is it that people "just can't accept" that the modern-day "horrors" of evil in the world "could possibly" be considered to be part of "Great Tribulation"...??? --- are they not 'horrible' enough...???
How bad would you like it to get before you would consider that it "could possibly" be part of "Great Tribulation"...???
When I look at end times prophecy, I see things past, present, and future -- part has already happened, part is happening now, and part is yet to happen...
G
I agree with a lot of what you said here; however, I do not believe that the Olivet Discourse prophecy is strictly about the Jews / Isreal as a nation.
It is certainly true that both Christians and [ non-Christian ] Jews have been the targets of great persecution over the past ~2000 years; however, I believe that the Olivet Discourse prophecy itself is more a matter of Jesus telling [ Christians ] "what is going to happen in the future" --- only, it happens to be that it does in fact affect both Christians and [ non-Christian ] Jews...
It is certainly true that both Christians and [ non-Christian ] Jews have been the targets of great persecution over the past ~2000 years; however, I believe that the Olivet Discourse prophecy itself is more a matter of Jesus telling [ Christians ] "what is going to happen in the future" --- only, it happens to be that it does in fact affect both Christians and [ non-Christian ] Jews...
P
Partlly correct.
Context?
Mat 24;3 And as he sat upon the mount of Olives, the disciples came unto him privately, saying, Tell us,
1)when shall these things be? and...
2)what shall be the sign of thy coming, and.......
3)of the end of the world?
3 questions.Jesus is not approaching this onee dimensionally.
Seems over the years,i find myself pointing this out to the "opposing" viewpoint adherants about 99% of the time.
Context?
Mat 24;3 And as he sat upon the mount of Olives, the disciples came unto him privately, saying, Tell us,
1)when shall these things be? and...
2)what shall be the sign of thy coming, and.......
3)of the end of the world?
3 questions.Jesus is not approaching this onee dimensionally.
Seems over the years,i find myself pointing this out to the "opposing" viewpoint adherants about 99% of the time.
P
Like I told you b4,if you start with doctrine,or a concept,you WILL find yourself painted in a corner CONSTANTLY.
Back up please.
1 thes resurrection =ONLY,THE DEAD IN CHRIST............not the 2 witnesses,not the patriarchs,and not the gt martyrs.
"dead in christ" = both martyrs and non martyrs
If you pile everything nto one big singular resurrection,they you have those alive,and remaining "raptured" and Mmeeting the lord in the air AFTER he has been returned to earth for some time,as he has thrown the devil into the bottomless pit.
See rev 20 and notte your supposed 1st resurrection "event" is AFTER satan is bound.
The singular pile is a fabrication and an impossibility my friend
Back up please.
1 thes resurrection =ONLY,THE DEAD IN CHRIST............not the 2 witnesses,not the patriarchs,and not the gt martyrs.
"dead in christ" = both martyrs and non martyrs
If you pile everything nto one big singular resurrection,they you have those alive,and remaining "raptured" and Mmeeting the lord in the air AFTER he has been returned to earth for some time,as he has thrown the devil into the bottomless pit.
See rev 20 and notte your supposed 1st resurrection "event" is AFTER satan is bound.
The singular pile is a fabrication and an impossibility my friend
To Gary and Valiant,
I think you are both seeing this wrong. The Luke 21 account deals with the temple. Note that they are at the temple area the whole time starting in Luke 20:1. Notice that when the topic of the temple came up that the question posed in Luke 21 was different than the Mat and Mark accounts. There was no mention of the end times.
“Teacher, but when will these things be? And what sign will there be when these things are about to take place?”
Notice that on the surface Jesus' answer seems to be the same as in Mat and Mark but it is different in a very important way. Notice that the Great Tribulation does not appear in Luke and neither does the Abomination of Desolation. The Luke account tells us that they are to flee when:
[SUP]20 [/SUP]“But when you see Jerusalem surrounded by armies, then know that its desolation is near. [SUP]21 [/SUP]Then let those who are in Judea flee to the mountains...
The Mat and Mark accounts tell them to flee when:
[SUP]15 [/SUP]“Therefore when you see the ‘abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, standing in the holy place” (whoever reads, let him understand), [SUP]16 [/SUP]“then let those who are in Judea flee to the mountains.
Thus, Luke is talking about the Temple of AD 70 events where Matthew and Mark and discussing the end times. So the lesson to learn is that both eras will be similar. There will be a terrifying event that causes those in Judea to flee. In AD 70 it was the Roman armies in the future it will be the Abomination of Desolation.
I think you are both seeing this wrong. The Luke 21 account deals with the temple. Note that they are at the temple area the whole time starting in Luke 20:1. Notice that when the topic of the temple came up that the question posed in Luke 21 was different than the Mat and Mark accounts. There was no mention of the end times.
“Teacher, but when will these things be? And what sign will there be when these things are about to take place?”
Notice that on the surface Jesus' answer seems to be the same as in Mat and Mark but it is different in a very important way. Notice that the Great Tribulation does not appear in Luke and neither does the Abomination of Desolation. The Luke account tells us that they are to flee when:
[SUP]20 [/SUP]“But when you see Jerusalem surrounded by armies, then know that its desolation is near. [SUP]21 [/SUP]Then let those who are in Judea flee to the mountains...
The Mat and Mark accounts tell them to flee when:
[SUP]15 [/SUP]“Therefore when you see the ‘abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, standing in the holy place” (whoever reads, let him understand), [SUP]16 [/SUP]“then let those who are in Judea flee to the mountains.
Thus, Luke is talking about the Temple of AD 70 events where Matthew and Mark and discussing the end times. So the lesson to learn is that both eras will be similar. There will be a terrifying event that causes those in Judea to flee. In AD 70 it was the Roman armies in the future it will be the Abomination of Desolation.
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