When does the rapture occur?

PlainWord · Apr 13, 2015

They had not worshiped the beast!!!! Neither did they receive his mark.

and cause as many as would not worship the image of the beast to be killed. [SUP]16 [/SUP]He causes all, both small and great, rich and poor, free and slave, to receive a mark on their right hand or on their foreheads, [SUP]17 [/SUP]and that no one may buy or sell except one who has the mark or the name of the beast, or the number of his name.

As it says above, it is the NOT WORSHIPING THAT GETS YOU KILLED. Not taking the Mark means you can't buy or sell. Let's please agree on something today...

popeye · Apr 13, 2015

"we" = church. You gotta be kidding,right?

In any obituary you will see the living relatives as "surviving"

You,by default,see all those "survivors" as being chased by muslims with dull knives right?

"as I read it"
Dude,you do not have to add all that postrib dialog viewpoint into the word.

VCO · Apr 13, 2015

atwhatcost said:

No, I find it exciting to discuss when our Bridegroom with Call Us Out to go to the Wedding of the Lamb.

BUT we promise to end this before page 666, OUR Bridegroom does not come before then.

popeye · Apr 13, 2015

PlainWord said:

"he causes all"
Now you realy got postrib problems as you now have gt saints with the mark.

jesus was on to this a long time ago. It is as if he knew somebody would make that "MARK IS NOT WORSHIP",non point

popeye · Apr 13, 2015

There is no such thing as a postrib rapture. Times of gentiles fulfilled sets rhe stage for the gt.
God's purposes.
Jabobs= israel's trouble = Jewish trouble.
Jesus said "i go to heaven" ,I prepare you a place in heaven,I will drink it with you in heaven,where I am (heaven) you may be allso"

popeye · Apr 13, 2015

plainword

"satan" on the hand of an individual.......IS WORSHIP.

popeye · Apr 13, 2015

Amazing how every powerpoint flows with the pretrib rapture scenario.

HMMMMM

popeye · Apr 13, 2015

Ok,lets see if we can find a verse pointing to a postrib rapture.

Looking,looking,looking,looking,looking,looking,looking,looking,looking,looking,looking,looking,looking,looking,looking,looking,looking,looking,looking,looking,looking,looking,looking,looking,looking,looking,looking,looking,looking,looking,looking,looking,looking,looking,looking,looking,looking,looking,looking,looking,looking,looking,looking,looking,looking,looking,looking,looking,looking,looking,looking,looking,looking,looking,.......

sorry
zero.

MarcR · Apr 13, 2015

PlainWord said:

I certainly don't think that English speaking people in the 21st century regard the atmosphere as part of heaven, usually. However that doesn't change the fact that Hebrew or Aramaic speaking Jewish believers of the first century, did believe exactly that.

PlainWord · Apr 13, 2015

popeye said:

One of the problems you have is you see this as a global event. You fail to recognize that John was writing in Apocalyptic literary style. He was writing specifically to the persecuted churches of Asia Minor (modern day Turkey) in a way that they would understand but the Romans would not. The "SEA" is mostly Syria, Iraq and Iran and other pockets made up of Shia. The earth, is the rest of the Muslim world made up of Sunni. It isn't the whole planet!! Here's your earth and sea. The "Sea" is in dark green, the "earth" is in light green. GREEN (CLOROS) PALE HORSE, get it??

We know without a doubt that many people do not receive the mark. Those who have the "mark" are killed by "Him who sat on the horse" (Rev 19:21). We know that Christ rules the Nations. He'd have nobody to rule if ALL those who did not take the mark are killed by the Beast and those who did where killed by the Lord. There would be nobody left if the entire planet is involved.

Zechariah (14) tells us that there will be survivors which would be impossible in your view.

[SUP]16 [/SUP]And it shall come to pass that everyone who is left of all the nations which came against Jerusalem shall go up from year to year to worship the King, the Lord of hosts, and to keep the Feast of Tabernacles.

Note the above applies only to those nations who came up against Jerusalem. Not all nations will so they are not involved in any of this "beast" crap.

kennethcadwell · Apr 13, 2015

popeye said:

I had to comment on this because enduring to the end has nothing to do with meaning to stay alive tell the end of the tribulation. Enduring to the end means you stay grounded in the faith in Jesus Christ until either you die, are killed, or raptured.
If we are in the GT tribulation and refuse the mark and refuse to worship the man of sin, and he kills us, then we have endured to the end.

Just like Jesus told the Apostles in Matthew 10 when He sent them out 2 by 2 to preach the gospel message. Jesus told them the same in verse 22 to endure to the end to be saved, so He was saying to keep their faith in Him through all the trials and personal tribulations they would go through to preach the word for to receive salvation.

So enduring to the end means staying/keeping your faith in the Lord Jesus Christ unto salvation !!!

PlainWord · Apr 13, 2015

popeye said:

[SUP]29 [/SUP]“Immediately after the tribulation of those days the sun will be darkened, and the moon will not give its light; the stars will fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens will be shaken. [SUP]30 [/SUP]Then the sign of the Son of Man will appear in heaven, and then all the tribes of the earth will mourn, and they will see the Son of Man coming on the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.

[SUP]7 [/SUP]Behold, He is coming with clouds, and every eye will see Him, even they who pierced Him. And all the tribes of the earth will mourn because of Him. Even so, Amen.

“Fall on us and hide us from the face of Him who sits on the throne and from the wrath of the Lamb! [SUP]17 [/SUP]For the great day of His wrath has come, and who is able to stand?”

[SUP]12 [/SUP]As for the rest of the beasts, they had their dominion taken away, yet their lives were prolonged for a season and a time. [SUP]13 [/SUP]“I was watching in the night visions, And behold, One like the Son of Man,Coming with the clouds of heaven!

Now, brethren, concerning the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ and our gathering together to Him, we ask you, [SUP]2 [/SUP]not to be soon shaken in mind or troubled, either by spirit or by word or by letter, as if from us, as though the day of Christ had come. [SUP]3 [/SUP]Let no one deceive you by any means; for that Day will not come unless the falling away comes first, and the man of sin is revealed,

and to give you who are troubled rest with us when the Lord Jesus is revealed from heaven with His mighty angels...

[SUP]14 [/SUP]Then I looked, and behold, a white cloud, and on the cloud sat One like the Son of Man, having on His head a golden crown, and in His hand a sharp sickle. [SUP]15 [/SUP]And another angel came out of the temple, crying with a loud voice to Him who sat on the cloud, “Thrust in Your sickle and reap, for the time has come for You to reap, for the harvest of the earth is ripe.” [SUP]16 [/SUP]So He who sat on the cloud thrust in His sickle on the earth, and the earth was reaped.

the harvest is the end of the age, and the reapers are the angels. [SUP]40 [/SUP]Therefore as the tares are gathered and burned in the fire, so it will be at the end of this age. [SUP]41 [/SUP]The Son of Man will send out His angels, and they will gather out of His kingdom all things that offend, and those who practice lawlessness, [SUP]42 [/SUP]and will cast them into the furnace of fire. There will be wailing and gnashing of teeth. [SUP]43 [/SUP]Then the righteous will shine forth as the sun in the kingdom of their Father. He who has ears to hear, let him hear!

“At that time Michael shall stand up,
The great prince who stands watch over the sons of your people;
And there shall be a time of trouble,
Such as never was since there was a nation,
Even to that time.
And at that time your people shall be delivered,
Every one who is found written in the book.

[SUP]15 [/SUP]The sun and moon will grow dark,
And the stars will diminish their brightness.
[SUP]16 [/SUP]The Lord also will roar from Zion,
And utter His voice from Jerusalem;
The heavens and earth will shake;
But the Lord will be a shelter for His people,

[SUP]3 [/SUP]Then the Lord will go forth
And fight against those nations,
As He fights in the day of battle.
[SUP]4 [/SUP]And in that day His feet will stand on the Mount of Olives,
Which faces Jerusalem on the east.
And the Mount of Olives shall be split in two,
From east to west,
Making a very large valley;
Half of the mountain shall move toward the north
And half of it toward the south.
[SUP]5 [/SUP]Then you shall flee through My mountain valley,
For the mountain valley shall reach to Azal.
Yes, you shall flee
As you fled from the earthquake
In the days of Uzziah king of Judah.

Thus the Lord my God will come,
And all the saints with You

And the Lord, whom you seek,
Will suddenly come to His temple,
Even the Messenger of the covenant,
In whom you delight.
Behold, He is coming,”
Says the Lord of hosts. [SUP]2 [/SUP]“But who can endure the day of His coming?
And who can stand when He appears?
For He is like a refiner’s fire
And like launderers’ soap.
[SUP]3 [/SUP]He will sit as a refiner and a purifier of silver

Do you need more????

PlainWord · Apr 13, 2015

popeye said:

Some take the mark out of fear and desire to eat. It will be a terrible choice they have to make. Take the badge of Islam or starve to death. If you take the mark, you are most likely going to worship the beast too, I grant you that. However, it is not worshiping the beast that gets you killed if they catch you not falling down and worshiping in the areas they control and have set up for worship.

But, as long as you are outside of the "green" areas, you should be okay with the exception of a random terrorist attack which can happen anywhere.

MarcR · Apr 13, 2015

PlainWord said:

and the dead in Christ shall rise first: Because of the way Greek grammar works, this use of the definite article works much as it does in Spanish. It is inclusive and usually means all who have died in Christ (throughout time) i.e. the Church.

JesusIsAll · Apr 13, 2015

PlainWord said:

Holy green fourth horse! Now we're doing horse exegesis by green maps of Allah? That is lame. No, that's lamer than lame. It's not walking backwards lame, or something. Is the barrel that empty? You do show promise, though, don't wish to be completely discouraging. You would make a great spokesman for Life Alerts, "Help! I'm post-trib, and I can't get up!"

Revelation 13:7 And it was given unto him to make war with the saints, and to overcome them: and power was given him over all kindreds, and tongues, and nations.

Revelation 13:17 And that no man might buy or sell, save he that had the mark, or the name of the beast, or the number of his name.

PlainWord · Apr 13, 2015

MarcR said:

I totally agree that the Dead in Christ rise first. Paul teaches us this. John teaches this too in Rev 11:12. The resurrection is going to scare the crap out of people and since it happens before the Lord returns they are going to have time to really freak out.

VioletReigns · Apr 13, 2015

Blain said:

Elin said:

As simple as Brother Blain's response is, I am in agreement with it because it is the simple truth. And I believe the source of his Authority is the Holy Spirit in his heart.

I don't have much use for the whole battleground of end-time philosophies and the multitude of interpretations about the rapture. And each of these post conflicts with the next throughout the entire thread. And strangely, each one is using scripture to support their opinion and giving Biblical answers to object to everyone else's opinion. Don't you find that troubling?

JesusIsAll · Apr 13, 2015

VioletReigns said:

The thread(s) is a dead horse, all scripture and arguments I believe exhausted long ago, everything pretty much repeating. But there is much scripture dealing with the rapture, a doctrine Paul and his congregations were much interested in, the "blessed hope" all Christians should be interested in, who love His appearing. I don't personally find differing views using scripture troubling, no different than those trying to prove such as works salvation, rather see scripture, even words, placed in isolation, scripture misunderstood and incorrectly applied, don't personally have the least confusion, see complete scripture harmony in all ways, like any matter of sound doctrine. This is also true of numerous top Protestant scholars and lifelong students of the Bible. I think we're none troubled or in doubt of what we believe, for a second. There is only truth, the rest error.

PlainWord · Apr 13, 2015

JesusIsAll said:

We mock that which we cannot understand. I'm not going to let your insults affect me. You are on square one completely in the dark about what Revelation means and how to understand it. I'm trying to help you the best I can and by the Grace of God, you will either get it, or not get it.

The fact the map was green is just an interesting coincidence but everyone knows that green is the color of Islam, so maybe the map maker knew this and choose green for his color. You do know that the official color of Islam is Green, don't you?

Look at "Green" as used to describe "green grass." The word is 5515.

Now compare to how the green is used with the 4th horse.

Do you see the same 5515 for green? Notice that the separate word "pale" is used here but not with grass. Isn't that funny? It gets translated "pale green" with horse but not with grass because the translators could not conceive of a green horse.

Now look at what 5515 means.

Do you see the Greek word, 5515, was used by John to describe the 4th horse or is this GREEK to you

?

Since John used Green 5515 to describe the 4th horse and the 1st trumpet how much you wanna bet they are related? John used Isaiah most often to code Revelation to protect not only himself but the recipients of Revelation. This is likely the passage from Isaiah 57 that John used for his imagery.

“But come here, You sons of the sorceress, You offspring of the adulterer and the harlot! [SUP]4 [/SUP]Whom do you ridicule?
Against whom do you make a wide mouth And stick out the tongue? Are you not children of transgression, Offspring of falsehood, [SUP]5 [/SUP]Inflaming yourselves with gods under every green tree, Slaying the children in the valleys, Under the clefts of the rocks?

This is what Islam and ISIS is doing right now!! They are killing women and children in the name of Allah. John is using an OT lesson to tell his audience that a very similar thing will happen. Green Tree is associated with pagan fertility rites (Isa 1:29-30, 1 Kin 14:23, Jer 2:20). Slaying the children was associated with the worship of Molech and demon worship (Isa 30:33, 2 Kin 23:10, Ps 106:37-38, Jer 7:31). Islam is worship completely contrary to God. Islam is of Satan and his demons.

VioletReigns · Apr 13, 2015

JesusIsAll said:

Actually, what's troubling is that these posts are demanding to be technically correct about words on a page which they fail to see with spiritual eyes. The subject has more to do with trying to make sense of the Gospel in your intellectual mind, which is impossible. The flesh can't fathom spiritual things. I wonder why you are all so intrigued with questions regarding Christ's return that have nothing to do with Christ at all. Jesus said take no thought for tomorrow. Jesus said rest in Him and don't be anxious about anything. Jesus said He came to bring us life and that more abundantly. What has the rapture to do with the here and now?

The world matters to the Lord. He came to save the world. To dwell on the destruction of the world and escaping, rather than living in this world (not of it) and being witnesses of His life and light, seems a huge cop-out. THAT's what's troubling to me.

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