When does the rapture occur?
- Thread starter Elin
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Just want to know how Satan was bound?
Because during Paul's days he wrote these about Satan
1, Satan presence on the destruction of the flesh/ thorn in the flesh (1 cor 5:5, 2 Cor 12:7)
2. Satan temptation of the weak (1 Cor 7:5, 2Cor 2:11, 1 Pet 5:8)
3. Satan hindering the gospel :
1Th_2:18 Wherefore we would have come unto you, even I Paul, once and again; but Satan hindered us.
Satan was and is clearly not bound....
Because during Paul's days he wrote these about Satan
1, Satan presence on the destruction of the flesh/ thorn in the flesh (1 cor 5:5, 2 Cor 12:7)
2. Satan temptation of the weak (1 Cor 7:5, 2Cor 2:11, 1 Pet 5:8)
3. Satan hindering the gospel :
1Th_2:18 Wherefore we would have come unto you, even I Paul, once and again; but Satan hindered us.
Satan was and is clearly not bound....
K
I disagree I believe that there is a great revival and then the church is taken away and the Holy Spirit. Jesus said we are the salt of the Earth ( preservative), But when the salt loses it's flavor what will you season with?
Once the church is removed there is nothing to stop Satan or the man of perdition. God's people are out of the way so have at it. many will be saved and most will be killed.
The fields are white and people are looking for an answer. Main stream church say's help yourself and that's not working. People are longing for the cross. But cannot find a preacher to teach them the cross. where are the laborer's?
Once the church is removed there is nothing to stop Satan or the man of perdition. God's people are out of the way so have at it. many will be saved and most will be killed.
The fields are white and people are looking for an answer. Main stream church say's help yourself and that's not working. People are longing for the cross. But cannot find a preacher to teach them the cross. where are the laborer's?
Elin,
Is Satan still bound or has he been loosed? Another way of asking, "Is Satan now deceiving the nations again or is that a future event?
I think I understand where you are coming from now. Thank you for explaining your view. There are many holes in your thinking but don't have time to address right now.
Is Satan still bound or has he been loosed? Another way of asking, "Is Satan now deceiving the nations again or is that a future event?
I think I understand where you are coming from now. Thank you for explaining your view. There are many holes in your thinking but don't have time to address right now.
Paul teaches a "falling away" not a great revival.
Now this is correct. However, how the church is removed is the big open question. You think the church is raptured, spectacularly removed from earth and taken to heaven. Talk about a Spielberg event - the Rapture Elin, LOL. I see the church as being totally destroyed, decimated in the Great Tribulation. There is far more evidence for my way of thinking than there is for yours.
I have Jesus' telling us we will be hated and killed for His name. I have Paul teaching the Tribulation of the Saints throughout His epistles. I have John showing us a Great Multitude in heaven who "come out" of the Great Tribulation. We don't have anyone teaching the church being removed to heaven.
So how does the GM get to heaven???? Let's see GREAT TRIBULATION = GREAT PERSECUTION/SUFFERING/DEATH.
GREAT TRIBULATION DOES NOT EQUAL RAPTURE.
Now this is correct. However, how the church is removed is the big open question. You think the church is raptured, spectacularly removed from earth and taken to heaven. Talk about a Spielberg event - the Rapture Elin, LOL. I see the church as being totally destroyed, decimated in the Great Tribulation. There is far more evidence for my way of thinking than there is for yours.
I have Jesus' telling us we will be hated and killed for His name. I have Paul teaching the Tribulation of the Saints throughout His epistles. I have John showing us a Great Multitude in heaven who "come out" of the Great Tribulation. We don't have anyone teaching the church being removed to heaven.
So how does the GM get to heaven???? Let's see GREAT TRIBULATION = GREAT PERSECUTION/SUFFERING/DEATH.
GREAT TRIBULATION DOES NOT EQUAL RAPTURE.
K
Look at the Greek, it is a departure. Many take it to mean a falling away what would OSAS say about that I wonder. Anyway the word can mean departure and that is the rapture. I will ask as Abraham did "will you destroy the wicked with the righteous. If you find 50 righteous will you destroy them". God said"if I find 50 I will not" then down to ten and God said "if I find 10 I will not" Abe should have kept going. But Righteous Lot was delivered and taken out of the city before it was destroyed. So will we.
Both.
I understand the NT to teach that Satan has been restrained from doing all the damage he would like to do,
but that the restraint will be released near the end and he will deceive all (but the elect),
whom God will give over to the lie of 2Th 2:4 that the man of lawlessness is God.
Could we start with you addressing the Scriptures presented in the OP?
I understand the NT to teach that Satan has been restrained from doing all the damage he would like to do,
but that the restraint will be released near the end and he will deceive all (but the elect),
whom God will give over to the lie of 2Th 2:4 that the man of lawlessness is God.
Could we start with you addressing the Scriptures presented in the OP?
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You did a great job setting forth your case in the OP. I didn't read the whole thing until now. I apologize. I am notoriously long winded and my reply would be massive.
We agree on a lot. But you fail to see the millennium for 2 reasons. 1) You have not identified the correct member of the Trinity who is returning in 1 Thes 4:14. It isn't Christ. 2) You fail to see that the restoration is NOT to the eternal state but rather to the pre-Flood State. Isaiah 65 discusses lions laying with lambs, etc and people living to an old age. Don't have time for a long rebuttal but I will when I can. God Bless you Elin.
We agree on a lot. But you fail to see the millennium for 2 reasons. 1) You have not identified the correct member of the Trinity who is returning in 1 Thes 4:14. It isn't Christ. 2) You fail to see that the restoration is NOT to the eternal state but rather to the pre-Flood State. Isaiah 65 discusses lions laying with lambs, etc and people living to an old age. Don't have time for a long rebuttal but I will when I can. God Bless you Elin.
You are confusing Hebrew and Greek. In Hebrew there are open and closed verbs, the future can be just an incomplete action. But in Greek the future tense can and does mean an action that is started in the future. The idea of church does have its roots in the assembly of Israel, but it obviously means more than this. What Jesus is saying in Matt. 16:18 is EXACTLY that the Church is a technical assembly of NT saints that is different from OT ones, those who had the old covenant, not the new covenant. There is one olive tree, true, but this is the tree of God's blessing, even in this illustration the point is that there are branches grafted in. There is also one fold, but the whole point of this fold is that it's a NEW FOLD, it now includes Jew and Gentile where before it did not.
I stand open to be judged by God as one who has studied His word.
I stand open to be judged by God as one who has studied His word.
See 2Th 2:5-8; 2Pe 2:4.
ok lets look at it
5Remember ye not, that, when I was yet with you, I told you these things?
6And now ye know what withholdeth that he might be revealed in his time.
7For the mystery of iniquity doth already work:
-iniquity at work at this time
only he who now letteth will let, until he be taken out of the way.
-someone is letting iniquity hapen, but hes taken away in future
8And then shall that Wicked be revealed,
-he is revieled but has been here since this was wrighten
whom the Lord shall consume with the spirit of his mouth, and shall destroy with the brightness of his coming:
- when Christ comes
ok lets look at it
5Remember ye not, that, when I was yet with you, I told you these things?
6And now ye know what withholdeth that he might be revealed in his time.
7For the mystery of iniquity doth already work:
-iniquity at work at this time
only he who now letteth will let, until he be taken out of the way.
-someone is letting iniquity hapen, but hes taken away in future
8And then shall that Wicked be revealed,
-he is revieled but has been here since this was wrighten
whom the Lord shall consume with the spirit of his mouth, and shall destroy with the brightness of his coming:
- when Christ comes