the Septuagint uses Strong's G2193 for Heylel, but Revelation 22:16 has ὁ ἀστὴρ ὁ λαμπρὸς ὁ πρωϊνός
which is pretty interesting eh
however, Jerome's own commentary on Isaiah 14:12:
Pro eo quod nos interpretati sumus ob facilitatem intelligentiae: Quomodo cecidisti de cælo, lucifer, qui mane oriebaris, in Hebraico, ut verbum exprimamus ad verbum, legitur: Quomodo cecidisti de cælo, ulula fili diluculi.
Jerome's comment in English:
Because of that which we have interpreted for ease of understanding: "How have you fallen from heaven, Lucifer, who rose in the morning." In Hebrew, when we express it literally, it is read: "How have you fallen from heaven! Wail, son of the dawn!"
so if the kjv translators weren't just appropriating Jerome's interpretive change ((which he himself calls it)) from the literal to something he thought 'more understandable' then they were at the least using the very same argument to agree with him and do the same thing.
Lucifer is still a Latin word, not a Hebrew one, so we are still at the question 'is his name Daniel or is his name Belteshazzar?'
Umm, I have some sort of hard understanding here that Septuagint uses Strong or Strong referenced the Septuagint, but as far as I know, Strong’s number system was based on the KJB. Correct me if I am wrong but Strong’s G2193 is
ἕως héōs, heh'-oce; of uncertain affinity; a conjunction, preposition and adverb of continuance, until (of time and place):—even (until, unto), (as) far (as), how long, (un-)til(-l), (hither-, un-, up) to, while(-s).
Post, is there any relevance in the topic at hand?
Lucifer is a Latin translation for the Hebrew ‘heylel’. Actually, Jerome’s Latin Vulgata is from Hebrew text and not the Greek Septuagint.
Now the KJB Translators were also beyond comparable. They too know full well of Latin. Lancelot Andrews possessed great ability in Greek, Latin, Hebrew, Chaldea, Syriac, and Arabic. William Bedwell is an author of 7 language lexicons including Hebrew, Lawrence Charlederton is a great scholar in Latin, Greek, and Hebrew, etc.. With these 54 able men can speak or converse Latin, Greek, Hebrew, I believe without hesitation that they were correct the rendering of the Hebrew heylel as Lucifer which so happened the same as Latin even as it sounds 'hell' which connotes fire, flame, light which he will fall therein in the future.
forgot to finish that thought -- i rather think the 70 most God-fearing & greatest scholars in Israel who could be found to translate the OT from Hebrew to Greek, who fluently spoke both, know better how to translate Hebrew to Greek than anyone living today.
they put εωσφόρου for heylel in Isaiah 14:12.
they put εωσφόρου also in these places, even tho they are not heylel in Hebrew:
- 1 Samuel 30:17
- Job 3:9
- Job 11:17
- Job 38:12
- Job 41:18
- Psalms 110:3
i guess it could be argued that non-native speakers of either language ~ 2,000 lving in a far-away pagan land years later knew the languages better, or that the 70 must have been wicked pharisees & lying scholars determined to corrupt the scripture ((tho there's no way they foresaw Revelation 22 being written)). but there is still evidence here that the Jews understood Heylel to have a reference/association to/with the brightness of the morning ((alternately interpreted/translated as 'twilight' in English)), and Isaiah being a Jew writing to Jews strongly suggests that the Jewish reading of this passage is an important thing to consider.
but Isaiah 14:12 is one word in one language, and Revelation 22:16 is 6 words in another language.
Isaiah 14:12 is Heylel, whatever that means
Revelation 22:16 is literally The Brightness, The Morning, The Star
we are thinking too much about the pagan language called English when we approach this, IMO
no scripture is written in English
You brought out the 70 interpreters yet according to the KJB translators though they were commendable, their works did not fully satisfy the learned men for
‘…it is evident, (and Saint
Jerome affirmeth as much) that the
Seventie were Interpreters, they were not Prophets; they did many things well, as learned men; but yet as men they stumbled and fell, one while through oversight, another while
through ignorance, yea,
sometimes they may be noted to adde to the Originall, and
sometimes to take from it” as taken execrpts from the ‘Translators to the Readers.’ KJB.
- 1 Samuel 30:17 the KJV put it twilight rather than the 'morning'. KJV is correct. The Peshitta (Syriac) translated from the Hebrew also translated the same as the KJB = twilight which definitely differs from the morning.
- Job 3:9- same as the above.
- Job 11:17- the Hebrew word differs here and not as heylel or nesheph but as boker translated in the KJB as “morning”.
- Job 38:12- Boker is being used being translated in the KJB as “morning”. Job 38:7 refers to the angelic being as sons of God or “morning stars" which is the NIV rendering for the Hebrew words “bôqer kôkâb” or “Sachar kokab” as my earlier post yet either of them definitely not being used in Isa. 14:12 for the Hebrew word used was “heylel”
- Job 41:18- “shakh'-ar” is a Hebrew word for the 'morning.'
- Psalms 110:3 mish-khawr' means “morning”.
As said the 70 were interpreters and true scribes of the Old Testament must copy the scripture in the land of Israel.
As to the angelic being called Lucifer, Heb Evans says “It is pretty difficult for the Morning star to fall from heaven and to be cut down to the ground. Also, we never heard of a star weakening nations, but then we are not into science fiction. We also do not know how a star can say things in its heart or challenge God. The name of Lucifer which may mean a shining one is a “transformer,” for he can transform into an angel of light? Job, called the angels “sons of God” and “morning stars” and Satan was “a” morning star of beauty and brightness by the name of Lucifer. We can abide trying to translate Bible names literally for effect, and that is one thing since the roots of such names do have literal root meanings. The root meaning in Isa 14:12 does pertain to shining or light or brightness (see Ezekiel 28). Still, none of these Hebrew roots in Isa 14:12 mean “morning” or “star” at all in Hebrew”
