Where do we find…?
- Thread starter crossnote
- Start date
-
Christian Chat is a moderated online Christian community allowing Christians around the world to fellowship with each other in real time chat via webcam, voice, and text, with the Christian Chat app. You can also start or participate in a Bible-based discussion here in the Christian Chat Forums, where members can also share with each other their own videos, pictures, or favorite Christian music.
If you are a Christian and need encouragement and fellowship, we're here for you! If you are not a Christian but interested in knowing more about Jesus our Lord, you're also welcome! Want to know what the Bible says, and how you can apply it to your life? Join us!
To make new Christian friends now around the world, click here to join Christian Chat.
Don't confuse the will itself with the achievement of what the will intends.
Being a slave does not negate the idea of having a 'free will'.
Having a free will is about the capability for decision (chosen path).
When it comes to what actually occurs - there are so many factors involved, it is not just about 'free will' anymore.
Free will is about the freedom to choose.
It does not mean that you cannot be forced into something that is "against your will"...
Being a slave does not negate the idea of having a 'free will'.
Having a free will is about the capability for decision (chosen path).
When it comes to what actually occurs - there are so many factors involved, it is not just about 'free will' anymore.
Free will is about the freedom to choose.
It does not mean that you cannot be forced into something that is "against your will"...
-
1
- Show all
WE only have limited Free will --------we have free will to make our daily decisions in this life ----God does not make us His puppet and neither does Satan ---all Satan can do is to keep us from believing there is a God by putting doubt and fear in our minds -----God allows his angels to have free choice ----Lucifer was an angel serving God who made his own choice to rebel against God ------and other angels made thier free choice to follow Lucifer who became Satan ------God gave man Free choice to choose to follow HIm or to Follow Satan ------
We are Born with a SIN NATURE _____that is we have a natural tendency to sin ---giving the choice to do God's will or do our own will ------we have free choice -------Scripture below =====
God gave His human creation Adam and Eve the reign to choose to obey or disobey his command -----both made the choice to disobey God ---Satan can't make you rebel ---all he does is put a thought in your mind ----you have a choice to act on your though or not -------
Deuteronomy 30 --gives you free choice ---free will to choose ---
The Offer of Life or Death ----YOU CHOOSE by your free will of choice ---verses 15 and 19
15 “Listen closely, I have set before you today life and prosperity (good), and death and adversity (evil);
16 in that I command you today to love the Lord your God, to walk [that is, to live each and every day] in His ways and to keep His commandments and His statutes and His judgments (precepts), so that you will live and multiply, and that the Lord your God will bless you in the land which you are entering to possess.
17 But if your heart turns away and you will not hear and obey, but are drawn away and worship other gods and serve them, 18 I declare to you today that you will certainly perish. You will not live long in the land which you cross the Jordan to enter and possess.
19 I call heaven and earth as witnesses against you today, that I have set before you life and death, the blessing and the curse; therefore, you shall choose life in order that you may live, you and your descendants,
20 by loving the Lord your God, by obeying His voice, and by holding closely to Him; for He is your life [your good life, your abundant life, your fulfillment] and the length of your days, that you may live in the land which the Lord promised (swore) to give to your fathers, to Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob.”
We are Born with a SIN NATURE _____that is we have a natural tendency to sin ---giving the choice to do God's will or do our own will ------we have free choice -------Scripture below =====
God gave His human creation Adam and Eve the reign to choose to obey or disobey his command -----both made the choice to disobey God ---Satan can't make you rebel ---all he does is put a thought in your mind ----you have a choice to act on your though or not -------
Deuteronomy 30 --gives you free choice ---free will to choose ---
The Offer of Life or Death ----YOU CHOOSE by your free will of choice ---verses 15 and 19
15 “Listen closely, I have set before you today life and prosperity (good), and death and adversity (evil);
16 in that I command you today to love the Lord your God, to walk [that is, to live each and every day] in His ways and to keep His commandments and His statutes and His judgments (precepts), so that you will live and multiply, and that the Lord your God will bless you in the land which you are entering to possess.
17 But if your heart turns away and you will not hear and obey, but are drawn away and worship other gods and serve them, 18 I declare to you today that you will certainly perish. You will not live long in the land which you cross the Jordan to enter and possess.
19 I call heaven and earth as witnesses against you today, that I have set before you life and death, the blessing and the curse; therefore, you shall choose life in order that you may live, you and your descendants,
20 by loving the Lord your God, by obeying His voice, and by holding closely to Him; for He is your life [your good life, your abundant life, your fulfillment] and the length of your days, that you may live in the land which the Lord promised (swore) to give to your fathers, to Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob.”
[/B]
crossnote ----the scripture you quote says it all -----we are predestined by adoption ------Jesus died and shed His blood for all people ------so God predestined ALL PEOPLE to be Saved ------we have free choice to choose to accept the offer of adoption or reject the offer of adoption ---your name is written in the Book of life when you receive Jesus as your Lord and saviour -----if your name is not written in the Book of life you will go to Hell ---not all people will accept the free offer of Salvation by their own choice -------Salvation is offered freely to all but not all will choose to accept it all by their free will to choose --life or death --all our choice ----we send ourselves to hell by our free will to choose
1 Timothy 2:3-6
Amplified Bible
3 This [kind of praying] is good and acceptable and pleasing in the sight of God our Savior,
4 who [a]wishes all people to be saved and to come to the knowledge and recognition of the [divine] truth.
5 For there is [only] one God, and [only] one Mediator between God and mankind, the Man Christ Jesus, 6 who gave Himself as a ransom [a substitutionary sacrifice to atone] for all, the testimony given at the right and proper time.
crossnote ----the scripture you quote says it all -----we are predestined by adoption ------Jesus died and shed His blood for all people ------so God predestined ALL PEOPLE to be Saved ------we have free choice to choose to accept the offer of adoption or reject the offer of adoption ---your name is written in the Book of life when you receive Jesus as your Lord and saviour -----if your name is not written in the Book of life you will go to Hell ---not all people will accept the free offer of Salvation by their own choice -------Salvation is offered freely to all but not all will choose to accept it all by their free will to choose --life or death --all our choice ----we send ourselves to hell by our free will to choose
1 Timothy 2:3-6
Amplified Bible
3 This [kind of praying] is good and acceptable and pleasing in the sight of God our Savior,
4 who [a]wishes all people to be saved and to come to the knowledge and recognition of the [divine] truth.
5 For there is [only] one God, and [only] one Mediator between God and mankind, the Man Christ Jesus, 6 who gave Himself as a ransom [a substitutionary sacrifice to atone] for all, the testimony given at the right and proper time.
crossnote ----you seem to have no understanding of what predestined is -----God had a plan before He created this world ---His plan was to bring His Son into this Physical world to die on the cross and shed His blood to bring Salvation to all of His Human Creation-----it was all marked out before He created this world ----He Predestined a way to save His fallen creation ------by and through adoption ----- we then have a choice to accept or reject this pre-established offer
Strong's Concordance
proorizó: to predetermine, foreordain
Original Word: προορίζω
Part of Speech: Verb
Transliteration: proorizó
Phonetic Spelling: (pro-or-id'-zo)
Definition: to predetermine, foreordain
Usage: I foreordain, predetermine, mark out beforehand.
"to pre-establish boundaries," i.e. before creation.]
Strong's Concordance
proorizó: to predetermine, foreordain
Original Word: προορίζω
Part of Speech: Verb
Transliteration: proorizó
Phonetic Spelling: (pro-or-id'-zo)
Definition: to predetermine, foreordain
Usage: I foreordain, predetermine, mark out beforehand.
"to pre-establish boundaries," i.e. before creation.]
Well he must have elected as well as predestine because Scripture says so...
Moreover whom he did predestinate, them he also called: and whom he called, them he also justified: and whom he justified, them he also glorified. (Rom 8:30)
I'm not sure how you can say 'he did not predestinate anyone to be saved.
Moreover whom he did predestinate, them he also called: and whom he called, them he also justified: and whom he justified, them he also glorified. (Rom 8:30)
I'm not sure how you can say 'he did not predestinate anyone to be saved.
--- Your taking a piece of scripture and making it say what you want it to say ------like most people do today ------
Everyone must be drawn by God to open their heart and mind to accept His word and by hearing the Word the Right Faith is inbirthed to the person who allows God to open their heart and mind to His Word -----We have a Choice to resist God's drawing to Him ----without the right Faith you cannot Please God and that is Scriptural -----you need the right Faith to be saved -----
Please Note ---what this says
The Lord continuously births faith in the yielded believer ----
I say --------SO this makes it clear that the person can yield or not yield to God ----the people who yields to God's pulling on their heart and mind by Faith are called the ELECT ------
Strong's Concordance
pistis: faith
Faith (4102/pistis) is always a gift from God, and never something that can be produced by people.
The Lord continuously births faith in the yielded believer so they can know what He prefers, i.e. the persuasion of His will (1 Jn 5:4
Pharaoh is a perfect example of one who resisted God's drawing ---God left him to his own devices ---God could have forced Pharaoh to do as He wanted but He Didn't ------He gave Pharaoh his choice to be obedient or disobedient ------We have free CHOICE ------God pulls on people's hearts every day for people to return to Him ------ but not everyone will take the call ---they decide to hang up and resist these people are the NON ELECT ------they predestined themselves to Hell instead of Heaven unless they can their minds later in their life to allow God to persuade them to accept His drawing -------
God does not force anyone to be included in the ELECT -----WE CHOOSE TO BE PART OF THE ELECT or not --If your name is not Written in the Lambs BOOK of Life when you die ---you have Elected yourself to Hell ----
Everyone must be drawn by God to open their heart and mind to accept His word and by hearing the Word the Right Faith is inbirthed to the person who allows God to open their heart and mind to His Word -----We have a Choice to resist God's drawing to Him ----without the right Faith you cannot Please God and that is Scriptural -----you need the right Faith to be saved -----
Please Note ---what this says
The Lord continuously births faith in the yielded believer ----
I say --------SO this makes it clear that the person can yield or not yield to God ----the people who yields to God's pulling on their heart and mind by Faith are called the ELECT ------
Strong's Concordance
pistis: faith
Faith (4102/pistis) is always a gift from God, and never something that can be produced by people.
The Lord continuously births faith in the yielded believer so they can know what He prefers, i.e. the persuasion of His will (1 Jn 5:4
Pharaoh is a perfect example of one who resisted God's drawing ---God left him to his own devices ---God could have forced Pharaoh to do as He wanted but He Didn't ------He gave Pharaoh his choice to be obedient or disobedient ------We have free CHOICE ------God pulls on people's hearts every day for people to return to Him ------ but not everyone will take the call ---they decide to hang up and resist these people are the NON ELECT ------they predestined themselves to Hell instead of Heaven unless they can their minds later in their life to allow God to persuade them to accept His drawing -------
God does not force anyone to be included in the ELECT -----WE CHOOSE TO BE PART OF THE ELECT or not --If your name is not Written in the Lambs BOOK of Life when you die ---you have Elected yourself to Hell ----
Besides
John 6:44- "No one can come to Me unless the Father who sent Me draws him; and I will raise him up on the last day.
we have...
Who hath saved us, and called us with an holy calling, not according to our works, but according to his own purpose and grace, which was given us in Christ Jesus before the world began,
(2Ti 1:9)
And when the Gentiles heard this, they were glad, and glorified the word of the Lord: and as many as were ordained to eternal life believed.
(Act 13:48)
But we are bound to give thanks always to God for you, brethren beloved of the Lord, because God hath from the beginning chosen you to salvation through sanctification of the Spirit and belief of the truth:
(2Th 2:13)
There are many others, at least I wouldn't call them 'a piece of Scripture'. These are verses we can't deny though they are hard to swallow.
It's time we gave God the glory for what HE has done without interjecting man in the center.
John 6:44- "No one can come to Me unless the Father who sent Me draws him; and I will raise him up on the last day.
we have...
Who hath saved us, and called us with an holy calling, not according to our works, but according to his own purpose and grace, which was given us in Christ Jesus before the world began,
(2Ti 1:9)
And when the Gentiles heard this, they were glad, and glorified the word of the Lord: and as many as were ordained to eternal life believed.
(Act 13:48)
But we are bound to give thanks always to God for you, brethren beloved of the Lord, because God hath from the beginning chosen you to salvation through sanctification of the Spirit and belief of the truth:
(2Th 2:13)
There are many others, at least I wouldn't call them 'a piece of Scripture'. These are verses we can't deny though they are hard to swallow.
It's time we gave God the glory for what HE has done without interjecting man in the center.
Yes. The problem is that would be impossible to determine, unless one was God Himself...having the mind of God.
Searching His Word, my best would be 'Yes', only because God says 'He changes not', e.g.
Hebrews 7:21 (NASB) (for they indeed became priests without an oath, but He with an oath through the One who said to Him, "THE LORD HAS SWORN AND WILL NOT CHANGE HIS MIND, 'YOU ARE A PRIEST FOREVER'");
Searching His Word, my best would be 'Yes', only because God says 'He changes not', e.g.
Hebrews 7:21 (NASB) (for they indeed became priests without an oath, but He with an oath through the One who said to Him, "THE LORD HAS SWORN AND WILL NOT CHANGE HIS MIND, 'YOU ARE A PRIEST FOREVER'");
