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Evmur

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Feb 28, 2021
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I firmly believe that no one is saved without explicit faith in Christ. And yet, it is tragic to hear that nearly 2 BILLION PEOPLE - nearly 25% of the World's Population - have still not heard the Gospel of Jesus Christ, nearly 2000 years later. This burden, more than any other, imho, should rest on the heart of every man and woman of God. That somehow we must pray and work for them to have a chance to be saved.

I believe the Lord is not dependent on us, but He does command us to go everywhere and preach His Name to all Nations. Sometimes, we hear reports - especially in the Muslim world, where missionaries often cannot go - that the Lord appeared to some in a dream, and led them to faith in Him. We must pray that God opens up a path for missionaries everywhere to work together to bring all to Christ.

Time is short, and rapidly passing. 1000s upon thousands die every day. At the least, we should pray and fast for souls to be saved. When possible, when the Lord places others who don't know Christ in our path, we must witness to them that there is Salvation in His Name.

What I know for sure is that God died for all and gives all people sufficient grace to be saved. If they co-operate, they will come to Christ.

We see the example of Cornelius in Acts 10. Even before becoming a Christian, he used to pray, fast and give alms; because God is so Good and Merciful to all, in time, God led him to the Truth. First, an Angel appeared to him, and then St. Peter was sent to preach Christ.

Acts 10:

"30 So Cornelius said, “Four days ago I was fasting until this hour; and at the ninth hour I prayed in my house, and behold, a man stood before me in bright clothing, 31 and said, ‘Cornelius, your prayer has been heard, and your alms are remembered in the sight of God ... 34 Then Peter opened his mouth and said: “In truth I perceive that God shows no partiality. 35 But in every nation whoever fears Him and works righteousness is accepted by Him ... 40 Him God raised up on the third day, and showed Him openly, 41 not to all the people, but to witnesses chosen before by God, even to us who ate and drank with Him after He arose from the dead. 42 And He commanded us to preach to the people, and to testify that it is He who was ordained by God to be Judge of the living and the dead. 43 To Him all the prophets witness that, through His name, whoever believes in Him will receive remission of sins.”

God Bless.
Let me say this, it won't be understood but I'll say it.

You are saying 25 % of all human souls living today have ZERO chance to be saved right? when all is said and done this is what you are saying. That is plus the BILLIONS of human souls who so far have lived and never once heard the gospel.

Well I say the theologians have got it wrong.

I can actually put forth a biblical theology which arrives at a vastly different conclusion. But folks will not listen or understand.

I therefore will continue to say this. The overwhelming majority of human souls will not end up in hell.

the wicked will go to hell.
 

Everlasting-Grace

Well-known member
Dec 18, 2021
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God is love, but conditional on those who embrace His Son, otherwise we would have to say God loves those He sends to hell. (True or False?)
I would say, yes, he does love them. so much his love died for them

But love can not overrule justice.. Justice demands a payment, if they reject Jesus as payment. they reject his love for them. not the other way around
 

Amanuensis

Well-known member
Jun 12, 2021
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Where do we find in preaching the Gospel in the Book of Acts the apostles saying to a crowd, “Jesus loves you”?
I was reminded today about one of the very first seeds of the Bible's message ever planted in my heart when growing up.

I will try and keep it short. I did not go to church or know anything about Jesus. I was about 13 on a school bus on the way to a Boy Scout trip and a lady taught us the song "Yes Jesus Loves me... For the Bible tells me so"

Fast Forward.. I was 18 and in the Dallas County Jail facing 5 to 99 waiting for my court date. I was asking God to help me quit drinking and being such a bad person. I remembered that song. It was like a stream in the desert to my soul. I started asking God to help me get a bible so that I could find the part that told me about how Jesus loved me.

I eventually got a bible and also read various Gospel tracts left behind by other inmates who had a chaplain visit them and I discovered the whole message about the cross and the resurrection and the invitation to believe and have all my sins forgiven.

But it all started with a song.

Yes Jesus Loves Me....
Yes Jesus Loves Me
Yes Jesus Loves Me
The Bible Tells Me So. :love:
 

crossnote

Senior Member
Nov 24, 2012
30,742
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I was reminded today about one of the very first seeds of the Bible's message ever planted in my heart when growing up.

I will try and keep it short. I did not go to church or know anything about Jesus. I was about 13 on a school bus on the way to a Boy Scout trip and a lady taught us the song "Yes Jesus Loves me... For the Bible tells me so"

Fast Forward.. I was 18 and in the Dallas County Jail facing 5 to 99 waiting for my court date. I was asking God to help me quit drinking and being such a bad person. I remembered that song. It was like a stream in the desert to my soul. I started asking God to help me get a bible so that I could find the part that told me about how Jesus loved me.

I eventually got a bible and also read various Gospel tracts left behind by other inmates who had a chaplain visit them and I discovered the whole message about the cross and the resurrection and the invitation to believe and have all my sins forgiven.

But it all started with a song.

Yes Jesus Loves Me....
Yes Jesus Loves Me
Yes Jesus Loves Me
The Bible Tells Me So. :love:
It's wonderful when God opens our eyes and heart to that truth, but don't you find it interesting it is not preached to any group of unbelievers in Scripture?
 

Amanuensis

Well-known member
Jun 12, 2021
1,457
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It's wonderful when God opens our eyes and heart to that truth, but don't you find it interesting it is not preached to any group of unbelievers in Scripture?
I don't know. This message pretty much starts out as a "God Loves You" message don't you think?

34Then Peter opened his mouth, and said, Of a truth I perceive that God is no respecter of persons: 35But in every nation he that feareth him, and worketh righteousness, is accepted with him. 36The word which God sent unto the children of Israel, preaching peace by Jesus Christ: (he is Lord of all:)

37That word, I say, ye know, which was published throughout all Judaea, and began from Galilee, after the baptism which John preached; 38How God anointed Jesus of Nazareth with the Holy Ghost and with power: who went about doing good, and healing all that were oppressed of the devil; for God was with him. 39And we are witnesses of all things which he did both in the land of the Jews, and in Jerusalem; whom they slew and hanged on a tree: 40Him God raised up the third day, and shewed him openly; 41Not to all the people, but unto witnesses chosen before of God, even to us, who did eat and drink with him after he rose from the dead. 42And he commanded us to preach unto the people, and to testify that it is he which was ordained of God to be the Judge of quick and dead. 43To him give all the prophets witness, that through his name whosoever believeth in him shall receive remission of sins.
 

crossnote

Senior Member
Nov 24, 2012
30,742
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I don't know. This message pretty much starts out as a "God Loves You" message don't you think?

34Then Peter opened his mouth, and said, Of a truth I perceive that God is no respecter of persons: 35But in every nation he that feareth him, and worketh righteousness, is accepted with him. 36The word which God sent unto the children of Israel, preaching peace by Jesus Christ: (he is Lord of all:)

37That word, I say, ye know, which was published throughout all Judaea, and began from Galilee, after the baptism which John preached; 38How God anointed Jesus of Nazareth with the Holy Ghost and with power: who went about doing good, and healing all that were oppressed of the devil; for God was with him. 39And we are witnesses of all things which he did both in the land of the Jews, and in Jerusalem; whom they slew and hanged on a tree: 40Him God raised up the third day, and shewed him openly; 41Not to all the people, but unto witnesses chosen before of God, even to us, who did eat and drink with him after he rose from the dead. 42And he commanded us to preach unto the people, and to testify that it is he which was ordained of God to be the Judge of quick and dead. 43To him give all the prophets witness, that through his name whosoever believeth in him shall receive remission of sins.
I highlighted where it contrasts a "Jesus loves you and has a wonderful plan for your life" type message, but yes, vs. 43 comes close.
 

Magenta

Senior Member
Jul 3, 2015
59,887
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It's wonderful when God opens our eyes and heart to that truth, but don't you
find it interesting it is not preached to any group of unbelievers in Scripture?
How would you classify all the Jews who then became believers? :unsure:

They all started out believing Jesus was their long-awaited Messiah? :unsure:
 
Jan 12, 2022
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Off the top of my head there is no such preaching or quote in the book of Acts.

Though for fun Jesus does directly speak in the book of Acts and he says to the apostle Paul "it is hard for thee to kick against the pricks". If I am not incorrect the blinding of Paul on the road to Damascus is the only time Jesus directly speaks in book of Acts, but I have not gone over Acts for a long time actually.
 

Thewatchman

Active member
Jun 19, 2021
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The point here is not weather or not the word Love is in the book of acts, there have been several good posts about Gods love. I am sure that there is no one here that would say that God does not love us. His love is open to everyone He wishes none to parish but all come to repentance. Just because He wishes it does not make it happen. We have to make the change, we have to reach out to Him then He will help us. I do not thank this was a problem back in the time of the first church. I know that the speakers and writers of the New Testament knew what “The love of The Lord” mint. Today with the lack of true teaching of the word it is no wounder you have people running around saying “I love you love me and God love all of us” They thank that is being a christian. This is the line I have heard more than once when someone does not want to face facts “Praise God Brother we do not have to worry about that we are under grace and not the law anymore”.

I thank the phrase the love of God is as misunderstood as the phrase the fear of the Lord. I am only going to give the 3 definitions in the Hebrew from the Strong's

Strong,s Concordance # 3372

affright, be make afraid, dreadful, put in fearful reverence, terrible act,

A primitive root; to fear; morally, to revere; caus. To frighten -- affright, be (make) afraid, dread(-ful), (put in) fear(-ful, -fully, -ing), (be had in) reverence(-end), X see, terrible (act, -ness, thing).

Strong's #3373 afraid, fearful From yare'; fearing; morally, reverent -- afraid, fear (-ful).

Strong's #3374dreadful, exceedingly, fearfulness Feminine of yare'; fear (also used as infinitive); morally, reverence -- X dreadful, X exceedingly, fear(-fulness).

Greek Strong's # 5399 To frighten: To be alarmed. To be in awe of i.e. revere, reverence.

If we really love the Lord and have grown in our faith we will have a respectful fear or reverence for the Lord. This only happens when we have grown and matured so that we have left the milk of the word and are being fed the T-Bone, Prim Rib, the real meat of Gods word.
 

Live4Him3

Jesus is Lord
May 19, 2022
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We are to go with the GOOD NEWS to EVERY creature, we are not to go preaching what will happen to those who reject it.
We most definitely should be warning people about their fate if they refuse the gospel, even as Jesus regularly did himself.

For example, in his "Sermon on the Mount", in which Jesus, after "seeing THE MULTITUDES", "went up into a mountain" (Matt. 5:1), he concluded by saying the following:

Matthew chapter 7

[24] Therefore whosoever heareth these sayings of mine, and doeth them, I will liken him unto a wise man, which built his house upon a rock:
[25] And the rain descended, and the floods came, and the winds blew, and beat upon that house; and it fell not: for it was founded upon a rock.
[26] And every one that heareth these sayings of mine, and doeth them not, shall be likened unto a foolish man, which built his house upon the sand:
[27] And the rain descended, and the floods came, and the winds blew, and beat upon that house; and it fell: and great was the fall of it.
[28] And it came to pass, when Jesus had ended these sayings, the people were astonished at his doctrine:
[29] For he taught them as one having authority, and not as the scribes.

Here, Jesus clearly told his hearers that if they didn't do what he said in his sermon, then they were like foolish men whose houses were built upon the sand and which were headed for a great fall. The multitudes "were astonished at his doctrine" which he "taught them as one having authority", and here is some of Jesus' authoritative doctrine from this very sermon:

Matthew chapter 5

[21] Ye have heard that it was said by them of old time, Thou shalt not kill; and whosoever shall kill shall be in danger of the judgment:
[22] But I say unto you, That whosoever is angry with his brother without a cause shall be in danger of the judgment: and whosoever shall say to his brother, Raca, shall be in danger of the council: but whosoever shall say, Thou fool, shall be in danger of hell fire.
[23] Therefore if thou bring thy gift to the altar, and there rememberest that thy brother hath ought against thee;
[24] Leave there thy gift before the altar, and go thy way; first be reconciled to thy brother, and then come and offer thy gift.
[25] Agree with thine adversary quickly, whiles thou art in the way with him; lest at any time the adversary deliver thee to the judge, and the judge deliver thee to the officer, and thou be cast into prison.
[26] Verily I say unto thee, Thou shalt by no means come out thence, till thou hast paid the uttermost farthing.
[27] Ye have heard that it was said by them of old time, Thou shalt not commit adultery:
[28] But I say unto you, That whosoever looketh on a woman to lust after her hath committed adultery with her already in his heart.
[29] And if thy right eye offend thee, pluck it out, and cast it from thee: for it is profitable for thee that one of thy members should perish, and not that thy whole body should be cast into hell.
[30] And if thy right hand offend thee, cut if off, and cast it from thee: for it is profitable for thee that one of thy members should perish, and not that thy whole body should be cast into hell.

Here, Jesus clearly warned "THE MULITUDES" (Matt. 5:1) of hell-fire if they didn't obey his authoritative doctrine.

Again, he said:

Matthew chapter 7

[13] Enter ye in at the strait gate: for wide is the gate, and broad is the way, that leadeth to destruction, and many there be which go in thereat:
[14] Because strait is the gate, and narrow is the way, which leadeth unto life, and few there be that find it.
[15] Beware of false prophets, which come to you in sheep's clothing, but inwardly they are ravening wolves.
[16] Ye shall know them by their fruits. Do men gather grapes of thorns, or figs of thistles?
[17] Even so every good tree bringeth forth good fruit; but a corrupt tree bringeth forth evil fruit.
[18] A good tree cannot bring forth evil fruit, neither can a corrupt tree bring forth good fruit.
[19] Every tree that bringeth not forth good fruit is hewn down, and cast into the fire.
[20] Wherefore by their fruits ye shall know them.

Here, while still addressing "THE MULITUDES" (Matt. 5:1) with his authoritative doctrine, Jesus clearly warned off two different "gates" and two different "trees", and how one led to life whereas the other led to destruction or to being hewn down and cast into the fire.

The Apostle Paul regularly warned his hearers as well.

In fact, here is what he said about his own ministry:

Colossians chapter 1

[21] And you, that were sometime alienated and enemies in your mind by wicked works, yet now hath he reconciled
[22] In the body of his flesh through death, to present you holy and unblameable and unreproveable in his sight:
[23] If ye continue in the faith grounded and settled, and be not moved away from the hope of the gospel, which ye have heard, and which was preached to every creature which is under heaven; whereof I Paul am made a minister;
[24] Who now rejoice in my sufferings for you, and fill up that which is behind of the afflictions of Christ in my flesh for his body's sake, which is the church:
[25] Whereof I am made a minister, according to the dispensation of God which is given to me for you, to fulfil the word of God;
[26] Even the mystery which hath been hid from ages and from generations, but now is made manifest to his saints:
[27] To whom God would make known what is the riches of the glory of this mystery among the Gentiles; which is Christ in you, the hope of glory:
[28] Whom we preach, warning every man, and teaching every man in all wisdom; that we may present every man perfect in Christ Jesus:
[29] Whereunto I also labour, striving according to his working, which worketh in me mightily.

While preaching "the hope of the gospel...which was preached to every creature which is under heaven" and whereof Paul was "made a minister", Paul not only preached "Christ in you, the hope of glory", but he also "WARNED EVERY MAN", and we should be doing exactly the same thing.

Why did Paul "WARN EVERY MAN"?

Because, unlike so many today, he knew "THE TERROR OF THE LORD".

II Corinthians chapter 5

[10] For we must all appear before the judgment seat of Christ; that every one may receive the things done in his body, according to that he hath done, whether it be good or bad.
[11] Knowing therefore the terror of the Lord, we persuade men; but we are made manifest unto God; and I trust also are made manifest in your consciences.

Anyhow, the entire Bible testifies AGAINST what you've said here in that it is LOADED WITH WARNINGS to both believers and non-believers alike from cover to cover.

Who has ears to hear, let them hear.
 

Thewatchman

Active member
Jun 19, 2021
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Twit

You need to apply all the good and pleasant things Jesus and the apostles said to those who were coming to Jesus and all the dark and threatening words they used to those who were coming against them.

He doesn't say the same things to the wheat as He does to the tares. The good tree has a different prognosis to the evil tree.

The baptiser doesn't rebuke and threaten those came to be baptised, he rebukes the Pharisees who came but were not baptised. It was those who turned the apostles away who will find it more tolerable for Sodom and Gomorra.
They were to go with the message of PEACE, "peace be upon this house"

We are to go with the GOOD NEWS to EVERY creature, we are not to go preaching what will happen to those who reject it. Tell people the GOOD NEWS, that is what will cause people to come.

Have you ever counted up the number of times Jesus comes saying "fear not" ?

You address only the goats and you frighten away the sheep.
To fear God mears to revear God.
Proverbs 9:9
New International Version
Instruct the wise and they will be wiser still; teach the righteous and they will add to their learning.

New Living Translation
Instruct the wise, and they will be even wiser. Teach the righteous, and they will learn even more.

English Standard Version
Give instruction to a wise man, and he will be still wiser; teach a righteous man, and he will increase in learning.

Berean Study Bible
Instruct a wise man, and he will be wiser still; teach a righteous man, and he will increase his learning.

King James Bible
Give instruction to a wise man, and he will be yet wiser: teach a just man, and he will increase in learning.
Proverbs 9:10

New International Version
The fear of the LORD is the beginning of wisdom, and knowledge of the Holy One is understanding.

New Living Translation
Fear of the LORD is the foundation of wisdom. Knowledge of the Holy One results in good judgment.

English Standard Version
The fear of the LORD is the beginning of wisdom, and the knowledge of the Holy One is insight.

Berean Study Bible
The fear of the LORD is the beginning of wisdom, and knowledge of the Holy One is understanding.

King James Bible
The fear of the LORD is the beginning of wisdom: and the knowledge of the holy is understanding.
Proverbs 9:11
New International Version
For through wisdom your days will be many, and years will be added to your life.

New Living Translation
Wisdom will multiply your days and add years to your life.

English Standard Version
For by me your days will be multiplied, and years will be added to your life.

Berean Study Bible
For through wisdom your days will be multiplied, and years will be added to your life.

King James Bible
For by me thy days shall be multiplied, and the years of thy life shall be increased.
 

Thewatchman

Active member
Jun 19, 2021
622
116
43
Twit

You need to apply all the good and pleasant things Jesus and the apostles said to those who were coming to Jesus and all the dark and threatening words they used to those who were coming against them.

He doesn't say the same things to the wheat as He does to the tares. The good tree has a different prognosis to the evil tree.

The baptiser doesn't rebuke and threaten those came to be baptised, he rebukes the Pharisees who came but were not baptised. It was those who turned the apostles away who will find it more tolerable for Sodom and Gomorra.
They were to go with the message of PEACE, "peace be upon this house"

We are to go with the GOOD NEWS to EVERY creature, we are not to go preaching what will happen to those who reject it. Tell people the GOOD NEWS, that is what will cause people to come.

Have you ever counted up the number of times Jesus comes saying "fear not" ?

You address only the goats and you frighten away the sheep.
Job 28:28
And He said to man, 'Behold, the fear of the Lord, that is wisdom, and to turn away from evil is understanding.'"

Psalm 111:10
The fear of the LORD is the beginning of wisdom; all who follow His precepts gain rich understanding. His praise endures forever!

Proverbs 1:7
The fear of the LORD is the beginning of knowledge, but fools despise wisdom and discipline.

Proverbs 30:3
I have not learned wisdom, and I have no knowledge of the Holy One.
I can post many many more verses that say this same thing.
My question for is not what bible are you reading but where are you getting fed that you do not understand this basic teaching from God our Father.
Also name call is not the sign of a Christian "Twit"
 

Magenta

Senior Member
Jul 3, 2015
59,887
29,274
113
Matthew 7:13 Enter ye in at the strait gate: for wide is the gate, and broad is
the way, that leadeth to destruction, and many there be which go in thereat

Matthew 7:13 plus Romans 8:13
:)
 

Live4Him3

Jesus is Lord
May 19, 2022
1,383
640
113
Also name call is not the sign of a Christian "Twit"
He's already apologized, and that infraction has been both forgiven and forgotten by God and me, so you really shouldn't be digging it up again.