Which gospel?
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I'm "certain" the one whom you are referring to, may not consider himself a "calvinist", by "title."
But, should the thread "5 tactics calvinist use" hold much water?
He certainly is "into name calling", for those who disagree with him.
Yet, hasn't stooped to the level of some others in here who have called those who they disagree with "liars."
I'll give credit where credit is due, however.
But, should the thread "5 tactics calvinist use" hold much water?
He certainly is "into name calling", for those who disagree with him.
Yet, hasn't stooped to the level of some others in here who have called those who they disagree with "liars."
I'll give credit where credit is due, however.
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The problem is in one's "faith!"
It starts out in the "good" soil. Then tries to spread (like the mustard seed), into the "rest of the different types of ground" before it has "sufficient root structure", to stand and grow in those different types of ground.
"Those types" of ground must be tilled! But, that requires effort and sacrifice, and dedication. These "efforts" are done within one's self!
This is why I am against the "no works required" for salvation. "The rapture theory/doctrine", as well as any "doctrine/s" that cause a believer to change hope (EARNEST EXPECTATION) into the slam dunk GAURANTEE of salvation! Like the blind leading the blind.
And, I don't care WHAT denomination one is, are wishes to be considered affiliated with!
Cuz, when that happens? Faith, and everything that goes with it STOP MATURING!
One can't "teach" what what one doesn't know!
That's why they mock and scoff!
It starts out in the "good" soil. Then tries to spread (like the mustard seed), into the "rest of the different types of ground" before it has "sufficient root structure", to stand and grow in those different types of ground.
"Those types" of ground must be tilled! But, that requires effort and sacrifice, and dedication. These "efforts" are done within one's self!
This is why I am against the "no works required" for salvation. "The rapture theory/doctrine", as well as any "doctrine/s" that cause a believer to change hope (EARNEST EXPECTATION) into the slam dunk GAURANTEE of salvation! Like the blind leading the blind.
And, I don't care WHAT denomination one is, are wishes to be considered affiliated with!
Cuz, when that happens? Faith, and everything that goes with it STOP MATURING!
One can't "teach" what what one doesn't know!
That's why they mock and scoff!
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Because of the "vanity of your interpretation", you are calling these "5 foolish virgins" "RACA", or "FOOLS?"
Because they had NO oil, and NEVER HAD any oil?
Cuz, it sez here:
Romans 12:3
For I say, through the grace given unto me, to every man that is among you, not to think of himself more highly than he ought to think; but to think soberly, according as God hath dealt to EVERY man "The MEASURE OF FAITH. (EVERY man!)
I pray you ask forgiveness and repent from holding onto these interpretations!
Matthew 5:22
But I say unto you, That whosoever is angry with his brother without a cause shall be in danger of the judgment: and whosoever shall say to his brother, Raca (stongs#4469-O "empty one"-thou {art} "worthless!" aka "any" term even insinuating utter villification), shall be in danger of the council: but whosoever shall say, Thou fool, shall be in danger of hell fire.
Have ya ever heard someone "preaching", and came away from hearing "the message", thinking to yourself, or even mentioning to someone else: "That "message" would make God Himself, get on His knees and BEG for forgiveness?" (Also referred to as "fire and brimstone", or "barnstorming" preachers.)
(see Matt. 5:22)
What that "preacher" is doing? Is THIS!:
2 Corinthians 10:15
Not boasting of things without(beyond) "our" (his/her) measure, that is, of other men's labours; but having hope, when your faith is increased, that we shall be enlarged by you according to our rule abundantly,
Is also where all this "name calling" stems from!
Because they had NO oil, and NEVER HAD any oil?
Cuz, it sez here:
Romans 12:3
For I say, through the grace given unto me, to every man that is among you, not to think of himself more highly than he ought to think; but to think soberly, according as God hath dealt to EVERY man "The MEASURE OF FAITH. (EVERY man!)
I pray you ask forgiveness and repent from holding onto these interpretations!
Matthew 5:22
But I say unto you, That whosoever is angry with his brother without a cause shall be in danger of the judgment: and whosoever shall say to his brother, Raca (stongs#4469-O "empty one"-thou {art} "worthless!" aka "any" term even insinuating utter villification), shall be in danger of the council: but whosoever shall say, Thou fool, shall be in danger of hell fire.
Have ya ever heard someone "preaching", and came away from hearing "the message", thinking to yourself, or even mentioning to someone else: "That "message" would make God Himself, get on His knees and BEG for forgiveness?" (Also referred to as "fire and brimstone", or "barnstorming" preachers.)
(see Matt. 5:22)
What that "preacher" is doing? Is THIS!:
2 Corinthians 10:15
Not boasting of things without(beyond) "our" (his/her) measure, that is, of other men's labours; but having hope, when your faith is increased, that we shall be enlarged by you according to our rule abundantly,
Is also where all this "name calling" stems from!
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Because of the "vanity of your interpretation", you are calling these "5 foolish virgins" "RACA", or "FOOLS?"
Because they had NO oil, and NEVER HAD any oil?
Cuz, it sez here:
Romans 12:3
For I say, through the grace given unto me, to every man that is among you, not to think of himself more highly than he ought to think; but to think soberly, according as God hath dealt to EVERY man "The MEASURE OF FAITH. (EVERY man!)
I pray you ask forgiveness and repent from holding onto these interpretations!
Matthew 5:22
But I say unto you, That whosoever is angry with his brother without a cause shall be in danger of the judgment: and whosoever shall say to his brother, Raca (stongs#4469-O "empty one"-thou {art} "worthless!" aka "any" term even insinuating utter villification), shall be in danger of the council: but whosoever shall say, Thou fool, shall be in danger of hell fire.
Have ya ever heard someone "preaching", and came away from hearing "the message", thinking to yourself, or even mentioning to someone else: "That "message" would make God Himself, get on His knees and BEG for forgiveness?" (Also referred to as "fire and brimstone", or "barnstorming" preachers.)
(see Matt. 5:22)
What that "preacher" is doing? Is THIS!:
2 Corinthians 10:15
Not boasting of things without(beyond) "our" (his/her) measure, that is, of other men's labours; but having hope, when your faith is increased, that we shall be enlarged by you according to our rule abundantly,
Is also where all this "name calling" stems from!
Because they had NO oil, and NEVER HAD any oil?
Cuz, it sez here:
Romans 12:3
For I say, through the grace given unto me, to every man that is among you, not to think of himself more highly than he ought to think; but to think soberly, according as God hath dealt to EVERY man "The MEASURE OF FAITH. (EVERY man!)
I pray you ask forgiveness and repent from holding onto these interpretations!
Matthew 5:22
But I say unto you, That whosoever is angry with his brother without a cause shall be in danger of the judgment: and whosoever shall say to his brother, Raca (stongs#4469-O "empty one"-thou {art} "worthless!" aka "any" term even insinuating utter villification), shall be in danger of the council: but whosoever shall say, Thou fool, shall be in danger of hell fire.
Have ya ever heard someone "preaching", and came away from hearing "the message", thinking to yourself, or even mentioning to someone else: "That "message" would make God Himself, get on His knees and BEG for forgiveness?" (Also referred to as "fire and brimstone", or "barnstorming" preachers.)
(see Matt. 5:22)
What that "preacher" is doing? Is THIS!:
2 Corinthians 10:15
Not boasting of things without(beyond) "our" (his/her) measure, that is, of other men's labours; but having hope, when your faith is increased, that we shall be enlarged by you according to our rule abundantly,
Is also where all this "name calling" stems from!
The every man having of the measure of faith is every man the father gave to the Son (as many as) . Not the whole faithless world. The faith needed to believe God (God's faith) not seen is the gift .It is not of the imaginations of our own heart as in no faith.
Deuteronomy 32:20 And he said, I will hide my face from them, I will see what their end shall be: for they are a very froward generation, children in whom is no faith.
Not little none. The witness of God as the faith of God is greater than the witness of faithless men.
Ya see? I just cannot accept that.
If it is God's will that ALL should come unto repentance? (not that all shall, but all could)
It has to start SOMEWHERE! Right?
So, it has to start with "that measure of faith", that is within ALL men!
Granted! It may not be much of a "measure." (but, grows when "stimulated")
But, to "plagiarize" and old t.v. commercial about "prego spaghetti sauce?"
"It's IN there!"
If it is God's will that ALL should come unto repentance? (not that all shall, but all could)
It has to start SOMEWHERE! Right?
So, it has to start with "that measure of faith", that is within ALL men!
Granted! It may not be much of a "measure." (but, grows when "stimulated")
But, to "plagiarize" and old t.v. commercial about "prego spaghetti sauce?"
"It's IN there!"
We help people by giving them THE correct Gospel. This is the correct Gospel unto Salvation. If you are spreading ANY other gospel, which is no gospel at all, Paul says you are cursed.
THE Gospel unto Salvation:
God wrapped Himself in human flesh in the form of His Son, Jesus the Messiah. Conceived by the Holy Spirit, born of a virgin. He suffered, was crucified, and died to pay OUR sin debt. He was raised to life from the grave to prove He had defeated death. If you confess Jesus as Lord, and believe in your heart that His Father resurrected Him to Life on the 3rd day, you WILL be saved. You will be filled, and sealed with the Holy Spirit, who will empower ALL to turn from their sins. The sin of adultery, lying, stealing, homosexuality, gossip, slander, drunkenness, covetousness, etc... And most importantly the sin of DEAD works, or a moral life in an attempt to EARN Salvation. He will also equip you to love like He did and do good works for HIS Glory.
THE Gospel unto Salvation:
God wrapped Himself in human flesh in the form of His Son, Jesus the Messiah. Conceived by the Holy Spirit, born of a virgin. He suffered, was crucified, and died to pay OUR sin debt. He was raised to life from the grave to prove He had defeated death. If you confess Jesus as Lord, and believe in your heart that His Father resurrected Him to Life on the 3rd day, you WILL be saved. You will be filled, and sealed with the Holy Spirit, who will empower ALL to turn from their sins. The sin of adultery, lying, stealing, homosexuality, gossip, slander, drunkenness, covetousness, etc... And most importantly the sin of DEAD works, or a moral life in an attempt to EARN Salvation. He will also equip you to love like He did and do good works for HIS Glory.
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Because of the "vanity of your interpretation", you are calling these "5 foolish virgins" "RACA", or "FOOLS?"
Because they had NO oil, and NEVER HAD any oil?
Cuz, it sez here:
Romans 12:3
For I say, through the grace given unto me, to every man that is among you, not to think of himself more highly than he ought to think; but to think soberly, according as God hath dealt to EVERY man "The MEASURE OF FAITH. (EVERY man!)
I pray you ask forgiveness and repent from holding onto these interpretations!
Matthew 5:22
But I say unto you, That whosoever is angry with his brother without a cause shall be in danger of the judgment: and whosoever shall say to his brother, Raca (stongs#4469-O "empty one"-thou {art} "worthless!" aka "any" term even insinuating utter villification), shall be in danger of the council: but whosoever shall say, Thou fool, shall be in danger of hell fire.
Have ya ever heard someone "preaching", and came away from hearing "the message", thinking to yourself, or even mentioning to someone else: "That "message" would make God Himself, get on His knees and BEG for forgiveness?" (Also referred to as "fire and brimstone", or "barnstorming" preachers.)
(see Matt. 5:22)
What that "preacher" is doing? Is THIS!:
2 Corinthians 10:15
Not boasting of things without(beyond) "our" (his/her) measure, that is, of other men's labours; but having hope, when your faith is increased, that we shall be enlarged by you according to our rule abundantly,
Is also where all this "name calling" stems from!
Because they had NO oil, and NEVER HAD any oil?
Cuz, it sez here:
Romans 12:3
For I say, through the grace given unto me, to every man that is among you, not to think of himself more highly than he ought to think; but to think soberly, according as God hath dealt to EVERY man "The MEASURE OF FAITH. (EVERY man!)
I pray you ask forgiveness and repent from holding onto these interpretations!
Matthew 5:22
But I say unto you, That whosoever is angry with his brother without a cause shall be in danger of the judgment: and whosoever shall say to his brother, Raca (stongs#4469-O "empty one"-thou {art} "worthless!" aka "any" term even insinuating utter villification), shall be in danger of the council: but whosoever shall say, Thou fool, shall be in danger of hell fire.
Have ya ever heard someone "preaching", and came away from hearing "the message", thinking to yourself, or even mentioning to someone else: "That "message" would make God Himself, get on His knees and BEG for forgiveness?" (Also referred to as "fire and brimstone", or "barnstorming" preachers.)
(see Matt. 5:22)
What that "preacher" is doing? Is THIS!:
2 Corinthians 10:15
Not boasting of things without(beyond) "our" (his/her) measure, that is, of other men's labours; but having hope, when your faith is increased, that we shall be enlarged by you according to our rule abundantly,
Is also where all this "name calling" stems from!
Calling BEHAVIOR foolish is NOT the same as calling a person a fool.
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No, seriously. The parable says the seed "sprang up". Plants that have "sprang up" have roots:
5“Others fell on the rocky places, where they did not have much soil; and immediately they sprang up, because they had no depth of soil. Matthew 13:5 NAS
The problem is the seed is not rooted deeply because of the kind of soil it's growing in. Understand?
And here is our exchange about us not being able to know if the lamps ever had oil in them or not:
Are you changing your mind about that, or did I just misunderstand you?
5“Others fell on the rocky places, where they did not have much soil; and immediately they sprang up, because they had no depth of soil. Matthew 13:5 NAS
The problem is the seed is not rooted deeply because of the kind of soil it's growing in. Understand?
And here is our exchange about us not being able to know if the lamps ever had oil in them or not:
Are you changing your mind about that, or did I just misunderstand you?
Why do the likes of you require CONSTANT reiteration.
Last time sport!
Yesterday at 7:59 AM
#605
Judges1318 said:
I was thinking that too. But plants don't grow without any roots.
That parable says the roots did not go deep enough. I think the parable is crafted by Jesus with the Jeremiah 17 passage about the tree planted by the spring of water in mind.
Believing is not a work that can not justify.
My argument is that you have to not stop the believing that began on day one of your salvation. You lose access to the ministry of Christ if you do that. In which case, his 'forever' ministry is no longer accessible to you. You're cut off from it when you are in unbelief. This has nothing to do with working to be and stay justified.
If believing is a work of trying to earn your own salvation, surely all of this is too!
Click to expand...
SUM PIC XRF DEV STU
Verse (Click for Chapter)
New International Version
But when the sun came up, the plants were scorched, and they withered because they had no root.
New Living Translation
But the plants soon wilted under the hot sun, and since they didn’t have deep roots, they died.
English Standard Version
but when the sun rose they were scorched. And since they had no root, they withered away.
Berean Study Bible
But when the sun rose, the seedlings were scorched, and they withered because they had no root.
Berean Literal Bible
And the sun having risen, they were scorched, and through not having root, were dried up.
New American Standard Bible
"But when the sun had risen, they were scorched; and because they had no root, they withered away.
New King James Version
But when the sun was up they were scorched, and because they had no root they withered away.
King James Bible
And when the sun was up, they were scorched; and because they had no root, they withered away.
Christian Standard Bible
But when the sun came up, it was scorched, and since it had no root, it withered away.
Contemporary English Version
But when the sun came up, the plants were scorched and dried up, because they did not have deep roots.
Good News Translation
But when the sun came up, it burned the young plants; and because the roots had not grown deep enough, the plants soon dried up.
Holman Christian Standard Bible
But when the sun came up they were scorched, and since they had no root, they withered.
International Standard Version
But when the sun came up, they were scorched. Since they did not have any roots, they dried up.
NET Bible
But when the sun came up, they were scorched, and because they did not have sufficient root, they withered.
New Heart English Bible
But when the sun had risen, they were scorched. Because they had no root, they withered away.
Aramaic Bible in Plain English
But when the sun rose, it became hot, and because there were no roots, it dried up.
GOD'S WORD® Translation
But when the sun came up, they were scorched. They withered because their roots weren't deep enough.
New American Standard 1977
“But when the sun had risen, they were scorched; and because they had no root, they withered away.
Jubilee Bible 2000
and when the sun was up, they were scorched; and because they had no root, they withered away.
King James 2000 Bible
And when the sun was up, they were scorched; and because they had no root, they withered away.
American King James Version
And when the sun was up, they were scorched; and because they had no root, they withered away.
American Standard Version
and when the sun was risen, they were scorched; and because they had no root, they withered away.
Douay-Rheims Bible
And when the sun was up they were scorched: and because they had not root, they withered away.
Darby Bible Translation
but when the sun rose they were burned up, and because of not having [any] root were dried up;
English Revised Version
and when the sun was risen, they were scorched; and because they had no root, they withered away.
Webster's Bible Translation
And when the sun had risen, they were scorched; and because they had not root, they withered.
Weymouth New Testament
but when the sun is risen, it is scorched by the heat, and through having no root it withers up.
World English Bible
When the sun had risen, they were scorched. Because they had no root, they withered away.
Young's Literal Translation
and the sun having risen they were scorched, and through not having root, they withered,
Almost 30 translations here. ALL but 3 say "NO ROOT" or "had not ROOT". Note the 3 that say they had root but the root didn't go deep enough. This is EXACTLY why it's vitally important to stay far away from any of these new "living word" type Bibles.
Last time sport!
Yesterday at 7:59 AM
#605
Judges1318 said:
I was thinking that too. But plants don't grow without any roots.
That parable says the roots did not go deep enough. I think the parable is crafted by Jesus with the Jeremiah 17 passage about the tree planted by the spring of water in mind.
Believing is not a work that can not justify.
My argument is that you have to not stop the believing that began on day one of your salvation. You lose access to the ministry of Christ if you do that. In which case, his 'forever' ministry is no longer accessible to you. You're cut off from it when you are in unbelief. This has nothing to do with working to be and stay justified.
If believing is a work of trying to earn your own salvation, surely all of this is too!
Click to expand...
SUM PIC XRF DEV STU
Verse (Click for Chapter)
New International Version
But when the sun came up, the plants were scorched, and they withered because they had no root.
New Living Translation
But the plants soon wilted under the hot sun, and since they didn’t have deep roots, they died.
English Standard Version
but when the sun rose they were scorched. And since they had no root, they withered away.
Berean Study Bible
But when the sun rose, the seedlings were scorched, and they withered because they had no root.
Berean Literal Bible
And the sun having risen, they were scorched, and through not having root, were dried up.
New American Standard Bible
"But when the sun had risen, they were scorched; and because they had no root, they withered away.
New King James Version
But when the sun was up they were scorched, and because they had no root they withered away.
King James Bible
And when the sun was up, they were scorched; and because they had no root, they withered away.
Christian Standard Bible
But when the sun came up, it was scorched, and since it had no root, it withered away.
Contemporary English Version
But when the sun came up, the plants were scorched and dried up, because they did not have deep roots.
Good News Translation
But when the sun came up, it burned the young plants; and because the roots had not grown deep enough, the plants soon dried up.
Holman Christian Standard Bible
But when the sun came up they were scorched, and since they had no root, they withered.
International Standard Version
But when the sun came up, they were scorched. Since they did not have any roots, they dried up.
NET Bible
But when the sun came up, they were scorched, and because they did not have sufficient root, they withered.
New Heart English Bible
But when the sun had risen, they were scorched. Because they had no root, they withered away.
Aramaic Bible in Plain English
But when the sun rose, it became hot, and because there were no roots, it dried up.
GOD'S WORD® Translation
But when the sun came up, they were scorched. They withered because their roots weren't deep enough.
New American Standard 1977
“But when the sun had risen, they were scorched; and because they had no root, they withered away.
Jubilee Bible 2000
and when the sun was up, they were scorched; and because they had no root, they withered away.
King James 2000 Bible
And when the sun was up, they were scorched; and because they had no root, they withered away.
American King James Version
And when the sun was up, they were scorched; and because they had no root, they withered away.
American Standard Version
and when the sun was risen, they were scorched; and because they had no root, they withered away.
Douay-Rheims Bible
And when the sun was up they were scorched: and because they had not root, they withered away.
Darby Bible Translation
but when the sun rose they were burned up, and because of not having [any] root were dried up;
English Revised Version
and when the sun was risen, they were scorched; and because they had no root, they withered away.
Webster's Bible Translation
And when the sun had risen, they were scorched; and because they had not root, they withered.
Weymouth New Testament
but when the sun is risen, it is scorched by the heat, and through having no root it withers up.
World English Bible
When the sun had risen, they were scorched. Because they had no root, they withered away.
Young's Literal Translation
and the sun having risen they were scorched, and through not having root, they withered,
Almost 30 translations here. ALL but 3 say "NO ROOT" or "had not ROOT". Note the 3 that say they had root but the root didn't go deep enough. This is EXACTLY why it's vitally important to stay far away from any of these new "living word" type Bibles.
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'No Root' is hyperbole for what the parable itself says: The seed of the word of God "did not have much soil", not that it had no root whatsoever because everyone knows plants have roots.
The plant having no root means it has no deep root. It's a figure of speech, because all plants have to have roots even if those roots are small and don't/can't reach down very far into the ground. And because they don't go down deep they don't have access to enough moisture to keep them alive when the heat of the sun falls on them. Read the parable!
The plant having no root means it has no deep root. It's a figure of speech, because all plants have to have roots even if those roots are small and don't/can't reach down very far into the ground. And because they don't go down deep they don't have access to enough moisture to keep them alive when the heat of the sun falls on them. Read the parable!
Revelation 20
12 And I saw the dead, small and great, stand before God; and the books were opened: and another book was opened, which is the book of life: and the dead were judged out of those things which were written in the books, according to their works.
According to YOU? Well, not JUST you, but several "others" here in BDF:
I MUST be "THE DEAD" in the above passage, eh?
Philippians 2
5 Let this mind be in you, which was also in Christ Jesus:
6 Who, being in the form of God, thought it not robbery to be equal with God:
What did God Himself have to say about this? (let's read a little further, eh?)
9 Wherefore God ALSO hath highly exalted him, and given him a name which is above every name:
Shall we see what RELIGION has done to man "with the name of Jesus?" By doing this?"
2 Timothy 2
16 But shun profane and vain babblings: for they will increase unto more ungodliness.
17 And their word will eat as doth a canker: of whom is Hymenaeus and Philetus;
18 Who concerning the truth have erred, saying that the resurrection is past already; and overthrow the faith of some.
And "turned" Jesus into THIS:
2 Thessalonians 2
4 Who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God, shewing himself that he is God.
12 And I saw the dead, small and great, stand before God; and the books were opened: and another book was opened, which is the book of life: and the dead were judged out of those things which were written in the books, according to their works.
According to YOU? Well, not JUST you, but several "others" here in BDF:
I MUST be "THE DEAD" in the above passage, eh?
Philippians 2
5 Let this mind be in you, which was also in Christ Jesus:
6 Who, being in the form of God, thought it not robbery to be equal with God:
What did God Himself have to say about this? (let's read a little further, eh?)
9 Wherefore God ALSO hath highly exalted him, and given him a name which is above every name:
Shall we see what RELIGION has done to man "with the name of Jesus?" By doing this?"
2 Timothy 2
16 But shun profane and vain babblings: for they will increase unto more ungodliness.
17 And their word will eat as doth a canker: of whom is Hymenaeus and Philetus;
18 Who concerning the truth have erred, saying that the resurrection is past already; and overthrow the faith of some.
And "turned" Jesus into THIS:
2 Thessalonians 2
4 Who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God, shewing himself that he is God.
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The "correct Gospel" is death and resurrection: thank God for the simplicity which is in Christ. We die to sin through faith and being joined to Him through baptism into death and we come up into a new life - a life live by the Holy Spirit, the Spirit He came to baptize us with: check each of the 4 Gospels. Yes, that's why He came.
In a nutshell I can't argue with that. Agreed. Personally I'd go a bit more into detail, like why all this happen for example, and why it had to be this way, how it makes since and comes together, and what it is that actually takes place when we are born again. Again, your summery was right on and I was in no way trying to correct you or anything like that, just wanted to add my thoughts. Thanks and good point.