Who are the two witnesses/prophets in Revelation?

[miknik5]

well All Scripture is God-breathed and is useful for teaching, rebuking, correcting and training in righteousness.
Jesus is the word of God and he was killed.

Let me think about that

Well let ME clarify what I was responding to
“you can’t kill the old testament or new testament

which is what another poster claimed the two witnesses are: the old and new testaments which is why I said you can’t kill the LITERAL word of GOD (in short, THE BIBLE)


i don’t claim that the two witnesses are the old and New Testament
i claim they are two literal beings and are indeed literally and physically killed

please go and think about reading the full of my posts in this thread to fully understand my position

Thank you

 

[Nehemiah6]

How can they be Moses and Elijah if they were taken to heaven that means they have immortality, how then can they be killed like the 2 witnesses

Have you not read that with God all things are possible (Q)

 

[Locutus]

It ain't Moses or Elijah - they were OT witnesses - they both went *poof* in the transfiguration.

 

[gdyloves]

Have you not read that with God all things are possible (Q)

yea but Gods word is faithful. everlasting life is everlasting life

 

[Nehemiah6]

yea but Gods word is faithful. everlasting life is everlasting life

The fact is that we simply do not know enough about Moses and Elijah to be dogmatic about what is and what is not. God has given us slight glimpses into these lives, so we should let things take their course. The Bible does say that when they appeared at the Transfiguration they appeared *in glory*. So there is no disputing that, whatever it means. The Bible says categorically that Elijah was taken up to Heaven (though we have some naysayers disputing this). The Bible also says categorically that God will send Elijah to this earth just before the Day of the LORD (and again we have naysayers claiming that John the Baptist was Elijah, even though John categorically denied that). But all the details about the Two Witnesses have not been fully revealed, so there is no point trying to speculate about what will be and what will not be.

 

[Nehemiah6]

It ain't Moses or Elijah - they were OT witnesses - they both went *poof* in the transfiguration.

Really (Q) You won t find any Scripture for that, but you do get full marks for a vivid imagination.

 

[gdyloves]

Revelations 3:7
Now when they have finished their testimony, the beast that comes up from the Abyss will attack them, and overpower and kill them.

And kill them; not corporeally, but civilly; for as their dead bodies lying three days and a half, that is, three years and a half, unburied, and their resurrection from the dead, and ascension to heaven, cannot be understood literally, so neither the killing of them; not but that in this war there may be a great slaughter, and much blood shed, in a literal sense: but the killing spoken of seems to regard them, not as men, but as witnesses; they will not be suffered to bear an open testimony any longer; they will be silenced; they will be banished, or removed into corners; and they will not only be under the censures, excommunications, and anathemas of the Romish antichrist, but they will lose all credit and esteem among those, who once pretended to be their friends; who will be ashamed of them, and will join in reproaching and rejecting them; so that their ministrations will be quite shut up, and at an end.

 

[Johnny_B]

I thought the 2 witnesses/prophets in Revelation are Elijah and Enoch since they never died here on earth.


Hebrews 9:27

“And as it is appointed unto men once to die, but after this the judgment."





Am I mistaken here?​

I do not think you are and Hebrews 9:27 is the reason that I believe that they are Elijah and Enoch. There are many that think it is Moses and Elijah because of what they do, but for me Hebrews 9:27 out wieghts that reasoning in my book, if that counts for anything.

 

[iamsoandso]

It's written that Moses would see the land but would not enter into it. Now if this is spiritually spoken of the after life in heaven then Moses will not enter it. If Moses is one of the two witnesses in this manner and he returns(?) ,then he would not be raised back up from the dead and then taken up to heaven (not enter into it) he would remain on earth after the resurrection so can he be one of the two?

 

[Nehemiah6]

I do not think you are and Hebrews 9:27 is the reason that I believe that they are Elijah and Enoch. There are many that think it is Moses and Elijah because of what they do, but for me Hebrews 9:27 out wieghts that reasoning in my book, if that counts for anything.

But all that Hebrews 9:27 is saying is that there is no second chance for sinners. What does that have to do with Enoch and Elijah (who are saints) (Q).

Actually Heb 9:27 has no relevance whatsoever. But Heb 11:5 does have relevance.

By faith Enoch was translated that he should not see death; and was not found, because God had translated him: for before his translation he had this testimony, that he pleased God.

That word *translated* could easily have been *raptured* since that is what it is about. Enoch was on earth at one moment, and the next moment he was in Heaven. Gen 5:24 says that *God took him* and since God dwells in Heaven, where else would He have taken him (Q).

Note: Not sure what the glitch is but some of what is typed does not show up in some of these post. A question mark become É.

 

[iamsoandso]

But all that Hebrews 9:27 is saying is that there is no second chance for sinners. What does that have to do with Enoch and Elijah (who are saints) (Q).

Actually Heb 9:27 has no relevance whatsoever. But Heb 11:5 does have relevance.

By faith Enoch was translated that he should not see death; and was not found, because God had translated him: for before his translation he had this testimony, that he pleased God.

That word *translated* could easily have been *raptured* since that is what it is about. Enoch was on earth at one moment, and the next moment he was in Heaven. Gen 5:24 says that *God took him* and since God dwells in Heaven, where else would He have taken him (Q).

Note: Not sure what the glitch is but some of what is typed does not show up in some of these post. A question mark become É.

So "raptured" do you mean that Enoch is the first born of the dead?,,,I thought Jesus was the first born of the dead. The first resurrection of the dead is in opposition with "Enoch was translated that he would not see death",,,hmmm

 

[Nehemiah6]

So "raptured" do you mean that Enoch is the first born of the dead?,,,I thought Jesus was the first born of the dead. The first resurrection of the dead is in opposition with "Enoch was translated that he would not see death",,,hmmm

How could Enoch be "the first born of [from] the dead" WHEN HE NEVER DIED???

 

[iamsoandso]

How could Enoch be "the first born of [from] the dead" WHEN HE NEVER DIED???

lol,yeah,,,can Enoch be killed by the beast and him come back to life like is written about the two witnesses if the scriptures state he would not see death?

 

[FlSnookman7]

Deuteronomy 34:5-7New International Version (NIV)

5 And Moses the servant of the Lord died there in Moab, as the Lord had said.6 He buried him[a] in Moab, in the valley opposite Beth Peor, but to this day no one knows where his grave is. 7 Moses was a hundred and twenty years old when he died, yet his eyes were not weak nor his strength gone.

 

[Nehemiah6]

Deuteronomy 34:5-7New International Version (NIV)

5 And Moses the servant of the Lord died there in Moab, as the Lord had said.6 He buried him[a] in Moab, in the valley opposite Beth Peor, but to this day no one knows where his grave is. 7 Moses was a hundred and twenty years old when he died, yet his eyes were not weak nor his strength gone.

And then we continue with this (KJB):
Yet Michael the archangel, when contending with the devil he disputed about the body of Moses, durst not bring against him a railing accusation, but said, The Lord rebuke thee. (Jude 1:9).

We don't even know what this dispute was about, and maybe that's why no one knows where his grave is. And that grave could also have been a sepulchre (as in the KJB):

Strong's Exhaustive Concordance
burial, burying place, grave, sepulcher Or qburah {keb-oo-raw'}; feminine passive participle of qabar; sepulture; (concretely) a sepulchre -- burial, burying place, grave, sepulchre.

 

[FlSnookman7]

Yes the grave could be a sepulcher but it seems to state two times that moses died.

 

[followjesus]

Moses already died once,so In order for the WORD to be true,It couldn’t be Moses.

PROPHECY TELLS us who they are

revelation 11:4 " .These are the two olive trees, and the two candlesticks standing before the God of the earth.

you then go to zechariah 4 " Then answered I, and said unto him, What are these two olive trees upon the right side of the candlestick and upon the left side thereof? 12And I answered again, and said unto him, What be these two olive branches which through the two golden pipes empty the golden oil out of themselves? 13And he answered me and said, Knowest thou not what these be? And I said, No, my lord. 14Then said he, These are the two anointed ones, that stand by the Lord of the whole earth." <<

matthew 17 " And was transfigured before them: and his face did shine as the sun, and his raiment was white as the light. 3And, behold, there appeared unto them Moses and Elias talking with him. <<< the two witnesses, moses representing the Law, which witnesses of Jesus, and the prophets which witness of Him. "


Moses had the power to strike the earth with plaugues and eijah pulled down fire from the sky. the two annointed ones, Moses of the Law, elijah of the prophets. the testimony is of Jesus.

 

[Lucy-Pevensie]

Yes the grave could be a sepulcher but it seems to state two times that moses died.

Right but what did the devil want with the body of Moses that caused him to dispute with Michael over it?

 

[miknik5]

lol,yeah,,,can Enoch be killed by the beast and him come back to life like is written about the two witnesses if the scriptures state he would not see death?

Would not see physical, natural death

Enoch is discussed along with generations of men who physically and naturally died

Not by Violent deaths
All these lived the fullness of their years... then died

Enoch is the only one listed who did not naturally live the fullness of his years and die but was taken and did not see death because he pleased GOD

 

[iamsoandso]

Would not see physical, natural death

Enoch is discussed along with generations of men who physically and naturally died

Not by Violent deaths
All these lived the fullness of their years... then died

Enoch is the only one listed who did not naturally live the fullness of his years and die but was taken and did not see death because he pleased GOD

Yes "he pleased God" Hebrews 11:5 Enoch had the testimony of God that he pleased him. Now afterwards the world was destroyed by the flood in the times of Noah and so although Enoch had pleased God it is apparent that Enoch's testimony/witness went unheeded by the world then present and it was destroyed(but not Enoch) and the eight replenished the earth.

From there Elisha ask something in that he ask for a "double portion of the spirit" at the time Elijah is taken in a chariot of fire. Now only an first born is given this as it is the first born heir who receives the "double portion" of the inheritance. So Elisha is asking for something that Elijah represents in that Elijah is who held this and it is then given to Elisha as Elijah is taken in the chariot of fire. From Moses to John the baptist(Elijah) Luke 16:16,Matthew 11:13 this took place, that is the double portion of something.

Now baring this in mind that it is written that Isaiah 1;26, the judges and counsellors would be restored as in the beginning where in time is this to take place or did it take place?

In Revelation 11:3 it is said that these two witnesses will prophesy 1260 days. So not for half this time and then be killed by the beast but from the beginning of that time to the end of the 1260 days and then they will be killed by the beast. This I think poses a problem to some of the things I have mentioned in that in Revelation 17:8 the beast that is to kill the two witnesses,Revelation 11:7 was not in the earth at the time John the Baptist was alive nor before Jesus was crucified,Revelation 11:7.

So then as is seen many say the Revelation is given at an early date and some at an later date(before or after ad70) but either way would make no difference because of Revelation 17:8. That is at the time the Revelation was given the angel says that the beast is "in the pit" and that he would ascend out of it at a later time. So the beast that is to kill the two witnesses,Revelation 11:7 was not present in the earth while JTB lived.

So if the beast that is to kill the two witnesses had not yet ascended from the pit then it is odd that it could be seen that he had slain anything prior to his ascension whether it is symbolic or literal. So from the time that the Revelation was given it I think is more important to see when the two witnesses are spoken of as present that is Revelation 11:1-3 ,that is from the time the temple,alter and those who worship therein are measured.