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Yes, in Him we have the Father and therefore should pray to the Father in Jesus' name.
I think I understand where you're coming from but I still see a flaw in your logic. A person can still think they are a Child of God, praying to Jesus, and yet not know Him. Just because you pray to Jesus does not mean you are born again and going to heaven.
Righteousness is not based upon prayer or even our works, but on Christ being in you.
But to those who are truly born again, the scriptures are very clear that you should pray to the Father in the name of Jesus.
Mat 7:21 Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.
This verse has to do with those who call on the name of, or pray to, Jesus.
Mat 7:22 Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works? [Or I prayed to you every day]
Mat 7:23 And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.
All in all, it's not about who you pray to, but who you have in you. Like you said, 'in Him you've got the Father'.
Okay, I think you blew it on this one. I was noticing how you continued to ignore scripture that was presented.
If you pick and chose what verses are of God and what are not, then you can make the bible agree with any wind of doctrine that you so desire which ultimately become doctrines of devils.
I would be very careful my friend, this is thin ice you are walking on and a weak foundation you are building upon.
Pro_3:5 Trust in the LORD with all thine heart; and lean not unto thine own understanding.
Not everything God does is going to make sense.
If you pick and chose what verses are of God and what are not, then you can make the bible agree with any wind of doctrine that you so desire which ultimately become doctrines of devils.
I would be very careful my friend, this is thin ice you are walking on and a weak foundation you are building upon.
Pro_3:5 Trust in the LORD with all thine heart; and lean not unto thine own understanding.
Not everything God does is going to make sense.
J
THE ANSWER IS FOUND IN MANY PLACES. THE LORD JESUS CHRIST, ALWAYS PRAYED TO THE FATHER. TAUGHT TO PRAY TO THE FATHER[. PHILIPPIANS:2:6 WHO BEING IN VERY NATURE GOD DID NOT CONSIDER EQUALITY WITH GOD.] JOHN 10:29 MY FATHER IS GREATHER THAN ALL. [ JOHN 14:28 FOR THE FATHER IS GREATHER THAN I.] [ JOHN 5:30 I CAN OF MY OWN AUTHORITY DO NOTHING. ]
M
Well Jesus was on earth talking to his disciples. So he wouldn't say necessarily "pray to me" because he was right there with him. They could just ask him if they needed something. But now that Jesus is back in heaven and part of the trinity then I think it's okay to pray in Jesus name. So many miricles, and exercisms have happened using the power of Jesus name so that must be okay. But again if you pray to Jesus you're also praying to the father and visa versa, I think. But I think to the father is safe too.
You are walking on a thin ice by taking few verses out of the context of the entire New Testament.
Look.
Your entire fate is in Jesus hands. Not only that he is telling you “pray in my name” meaning that’s the name (Jesus Christ) for you to pray to.
Look. Jesus is the head of any man. Look at this verse
1 Cor 11:3 But there is one thing I want you to know: The head of every man is Christ, the head of woman is man, and the head of Christ is God.
It just doesn’t sink to you.
My last post in this thread. Don't bother replying as i won't be reading it
Look.
Your entire fate is in Jesus hands. Not only that he is telling you “pray in my name” meaning that’s the name (Jesus Christ) for you to pray to.
Look. Jesus is the head of any man. Look at this verse
1 Cor 11:3 But there is one thing I want you to know: The head of every man is Christ, the head of woman is man, and the head of Christ is God.
It just doesn’t sink to you.
My last post in this thread. Don't bother replying as i won't be reading it
I of course, respectfully disagree. I have taken nothing out of context, it is quite the contrary.
Joh_12:49 For I have not spoken of myself; but the Father which sent me, he gave me a commandment, what I should say, and what I should speak.
Joh_12:50 And I know that his commandment is life everlasting: whatsoever I speak therefore, even as the Father said unto me, so I speak.
Joh_14:31 But that the world may know that I love the Father; and as the Father gave me commandment, even so I do. Arise, let us go hence.
Everything Jesus does is directed by and from the Father.
Joh_12:49 For I have not spoken of myself; but the Father which sent me, he gave me a commandment, what I should say, and what I should speak.
Joh_12:50 And I know that his commandment is life everlasting: whatsoever I speak therefore, even as the Father said unto me, so I speak.
Joh_14:31 But that the world may know that I love the Father; and as the Father gave me commandment, even so I do. Arise, let us go hence.
Everything Jesus does is directed by and from the Father.
TO THE OP:
This is just another situation where there is a plain-as-day Scripture to back it completely, and people who do what they want continue to do what they want. This happens all the time, but then again, you knew that.
This is just another situation where there is a plain-as-day Scripture to back it completely, and people who do what they want continue to do what they want. This happens all the time, but then again, you knew that.
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T
Having read your comment on Mat 7:22 I feel that you may be incorrect, although I do agree that you should pray to the Father....in the name of Jesus.
The apostles were asked in what name do you perform these things....thay said "In the name of Jesus Christ who you hung from the cross." That was Peter and the gang and they healed and prophesied and cast out devils in the name of Jesus....it says nothing of those things meaning to pray to Jesus.
You pray to the Father, in the name of the Son. Holy or Sanctified action requires the name of the Son where as the Glory is given to the Father. Nothing good can come from me so Glory be to God that He has given the world His Son and sent His Spirit to dwell in us.
The Machine
Theatricality and deception are powerful agents to the uninitiated... but we are initiated, aren't we Bruce?.....Bane
The apostles were asked in what name do you perform these things....thay said "In the name of Jesus Christ who you hung from the cross." That was Peter and the gang and they healed and prophesied and cast out devils in the name of Jesus....it says nothing of those things meaning to pray to Jesus.
You pray to the Father, in the name of the Son. Holy or Sanctified action requires the name of the Son where as the Glory is given to the Father. Nothing good can come from me so Glory be to God that He has given the world His Son and sent His Spirit to dwell in us.
The Machine
Theatricality and deception are powerful agents to the uninitiated... but we are initiated, aren't we Bruce?.....Bane
In the Orthodox Church all prayer is Trinitarian. We pray in the Holy Spirit, through Jesus the Son of God, and in his name, to God the Father. We call God “our Father” because Jesus has taught us and enabled us to do so. We have the capability of addressing God as Father because we are made sons of God by the Holy Spirit (see Rom 8). In the Church we also address prayers to Christ and the Holy Spirit, the Divine Persons who are one with God the Father and exist eternally in perfect unity with him, sharing his divine being and will. In the Church we also pray to the saints—not in the same way as we pray to the Persons of the Holy Trinity, but as our helpers, intercessors, and fellow-members of the Church who are already glorified with God in his divine presence. Foremost among the saints and first among the mere humans who are glorified in God’s Kingdom is Mary, the Theotokos and Queen of Heaven, the leader among our saintly intercessors before God. We can also pray to the holy angels to plead our cause before God.
In the traditional catechism of the Church three types of prayer are listed: asking, thanking, and praising . We can add a fourth type which can be called lamenting before God, questioning him about the conditions of life and the meaning of our existence, particularly in times of tragedy and confusion. We very often find all four kinds of prayer in the Bible.
ICXC NIKA
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I'm sorry sir, it is difficult to reply to this with an explanation because I'm missing what you are saying might be incorrect.
As for doing things, we are told to do them in the name of Jesus.
Mar_16:17 And these signs shall follow them that believe; In my name shall they cast out devils; they shall speak with new tongues;
Mar 16:18 They shall take up serpents; and if they drink any deadly thing, it shall not hurt them; they shall lay hands on the sick, and they shall recover.
This is not praying or making a petition to Jesus, but commanding or doing in His name.
If you were to ask God the Father to cast a foul spirit or demon out of a person, nothing would happen. But if you were to command a foul spirit or demon to come out of a person in faith, in the name of Jesus, the spirit will come out, and it will be Jesus that does it. Some conditions do apply though.
Joh_15:5 I am the vine, ye are the branches: He that abideth in me, and I in him, the same bringeth forth much fruit: for without me ye can do nothing.
Joh 14:12 Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that believeth on me, the works that I do shall he do also; and greater works than these shall he do; because I go unto my Father.
Joh 14:13 And whatsoever ye shall ask in my name, that will I do, that the Father may be glorified in the Son.
Joh 14:14 If ye shall ask any thing in my name, I will do it.
Vine's dictionary defines the word, 'ask' in these two verses as speaking to or commanding, in the name of Jesus.
Again, in Mark 11:24, Jesus tell us that if we were to command a mountain to move, it will. Again, this is not a request from the person, but a command. And certain conditions apply to this as well.
As for doing things, we are told to do them in the name of Jesus.
Mar_16:17 And these signs shall follow them that believe; In my name shall they cast out devils; they shall speak with new tongues;
Mar 16:18 They shall take up serpents; and if they drink any deadly thing, it shall not hurt them; they shall lay hands on the sick, and they shall recover.
This is not praying or making a petition to Jesus, but commanding or doing in His name.
If you were to ask God the Father to cast a foul spirit or demon out of a person, nothing would happen. But if you were to command a foul spirit or demon to come out of a person in faith, in the name of Jesus, the spirit will come out, and it will be Jesus that does it. Some conditions do apply though.
Joh_15:5 I am the vine, ye are the branches: He that abideth in me, and I in him, the same bringeth forth much fruit: for without me ye can do nothing.
Joh 14:12 Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that believeth on me, the works that I do shall he do also; and greater works than these shall he do; because I go unto my Father.
Joh 14:13 And whatsoever ye shall ask in my name, that will I do, that the Father may be glorified in the Son.
Joh 14:14 If ye shall ask any thing in my name, I will do it.
Vine's dictionary defines the word, 'ask' in these two verses as speaking to or commanding, in the name of Jesus.
Again, in Mark 11:24, Jesus tell us that if we were to command a mountain to move, it will. Again, this is not a request from the person, but a command. And certain conditions apply to this as well.
T
Originally Posted by know1
Yes, in Him we have the Father and therefore should pray to the Father in Jesus' name.
I think I understand where you're coming from but I still see a flaw in your logic. A person can still think they are a Child of God, praying to Jesus, and yet not know Him. Just because you pray to Jesus does not mean you are born again and going to heaven.
Righteousness is not based upon prayer or even our works, but on Christ being in you.
But to those who are truly born again, the scriptures are very clear that you should pray to the Father in the name of Jesus.
Mat 7:21 Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.
"This verse has to do with those who call on the name of, or pray to, Jesus."
Mat 7:22 Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works? [Or I prayed to you every day]
Mat 7:23 And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.
All in all, it's not about who you pray to, but who you have in you. Like you said, 'in Him you've got the Father'.
This verse has to do with those who call on the name of, or pray to, Jesus."
That right there is you saying that calling on the name of Jesus IS praying to Jesus.....right there.....just above my line here....That is what I am saying is wrong.....calling on and praying to are different...you say they are the same right there.....in the big font above my text right here......that's wrong....
I think that in your case Know1 it is less difficult to identify the error I pointed out than you let on. You seem quite bright and surely can see the mistake.....
God Bless
The Machine
The best way to spread Christmas Cheer, is singing loud for all to hear....Buddy
Yes, in Him we have the Father and therefore should pray to the Father in Jesus' name.
I think I understand where you're coming from but I still see a flaw in your logic. A person can still think they are a Child of God, praying to Jesus, and yet not know Him. Just because you pray to Jesus does not mean you are born again and going to heaven.
Righteousness is not based upon prayer or even our works, but on Christ being in you.
But to those who are truly born again, the scriptures are very clear that you should pray to the Father in the name of Jesus.
Mat 7:21 Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.
"This verse has to do with those who call on the name of, or pray to, Jesus."
Mat 7:22 Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works? [Or I prayed to you every day]
Mat 7:23 And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.
All in all, it's not about who you pray to, but who you have in you. Like you said, 'in Him you've got the Father'.
This verse has to do with those who call on the name of, or pray to, Jesus."
That right there is you saying that calling on the name of Jesus IS praying to Jesus.....right there.....just above my line here....That is what I am saying is wrong.....calling on and praying to are different...you say they are the same right there.....in the big font above my text right here......that's wrong....
I think that in your case Know1 it is less difficult to identify the error I pointed out than you let on. You seem quite bright and surely can see the mistake.....
God Bless
The Machine
The best way to spread Christmas Cheer, is singing loud for all to hear....Buddy
1John 2:1-2
1My little children, these things write I unto you, that ye sin not. And if any man sin, we have an advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous:
2 And he is the propitiation for our sins: and not for ours only, but also for the sins of the whole world.
How do we converse with our advocate and get to know Him? Through Prayer.
When you pray do you only recite the Lords Prayer or do you pray all kinds of stuff? I personally pray all kinds of stuff. But if you want to get all legalistic like and pray only to the Father I guess you should only pray the Lords Prayer also...
Isn't that the logic you are using? "Jesus said pray like this" and that is the one and only way and only words to be used in prayer?
1My little children, these things write I unto you, that ye sin not. And if any man sin, we have an advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous:
2 And he is the propitiation for our sins: and not for ours only, but also for the sins of the whole world.
How do we converse with our advocate and get to know Him? Through Prayer.
When you pray do you only recite the Lords Prayer or do you pray all kinds of stuff? I personally pray all kinds of stuff. But if you want to get all legalistic like and pray only to the Father I guess you should only pray the Lords Prayer also...
Isn't that the logic you are using? "Jesus said pray like this" and that is the one and only way and only words to be used in prayer?
In my understanding to pray in the "Name" of Jesus is to pray in His "Nature", for that is what the word means. So we need a "Name/Nature change" in order for us to do this as is meant by the scriptures.
Such as with Abram to Abraham, Jacob to Israel, Saul to Paul, this can only happen through Covenant Relationship. To Reckon ourselves dead in deed to sin and alive unto God, through the Crucifixion of The flesh.
Rom 8:9 But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his.
Rom 8:10 And if Christ be in you, the body is dead because of sin; but the Spirit is life because of righteousness.
Name:
on'-om-ah
From a presumed derivative of the base of G1097 (compare G3685); a “name” (literally or figuratively), (authority, character): - called, (+ sur-) name (-d).
Rev_2:17 He that hath an ear, let him hear what the Spirit saith unto the churches; To him that overcometh will I give to eat of the hidden manna, and will give him a white stone, and in the stone a new name written, which no man knoweth saving he that receiveth it.
Rev_3:12 Him that overcometh will I make a pillar in the temple of my God, and he shall go no more out: and I will write upon him the name of my God, and the name of the city of my God, which is new Jerusalem, which cometh down out of heaven from my God: and I will write upon him my new name.
God Bless
Such as with Abram to Abraham, Jacob to Israel, Saul to Paul, this can only happen through Covenant Relationship. To Reckon ourselves dead in deed to sin and alive unto God, through the Crucifixion of The flesh.
Rom 8:9 But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his.
Rom 8:10 And if Christ be in you, the body is dead because of sin; but the Spirit is life because of righteousness.
Name:
on'-om-ah
From a presumed derivative of the base of G1097 (compare G3685); a “name” (literally or figuratively), (authority, character): - called, (+ sur-) name (-d).
Rev_2:17 He that hath an ear, let him hear what the Spirit saith unto the churches; To him that overcometh will I give to eat of the hidden manna, and will give him a white stone, and in the stone a new name written, which no man knoweth saving he that receiveth it.
Rev_3:12 Him that overcometh will I make a pillar in the temple of my God, and he shall go no more out: and I will write upon him the name of my God, and the name of the city of my God, which is new Jerusalem, which cometh down out of heaven from my God: and I will write upon him my new name.
God Bless
H
These verses are interesting, in light of the topic...."In that day you will no longer ask me anything. Very truly I tell you, my Father will give you whatever you ask in my name. Until now you have not asked for anything in my name. Ask and you will receive and your joy will be complete." John 16:23-24.
...also, good proof of Christ' deity...
...also, good proof of Christ' deity...
I believe we are making an attempt to define The Father. Maybe this will help. When I pray to God, I pray to The Father, Jesus, and The Holy Ghost, because they are not separate, but separate (both are true). The following is the way that I understand God/The Father (The part on the right of the image).
http://christianchat.com/picture.php?albumid=8567&pictureid=55061
http://christianchat.com/picture.php?albumid=8567&pictureid=55061
1Jn_5:7 For there are three that bear record in heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost: and these three are one.
I see that Jesus, The Father, and the Holy Ghost are in Heaven.
Joh 14:6 Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me.
Joh 14:7 If ye had known me, ye should have known my Father also: and from henceforth ye know him, and have seen him.
Joh 14:8 Philip saith unto him, Lord, shew us the Father, and it sufficeth us.
Joh 14:9 Jesus saith unto him, Have I been so long time with you, and yet hast thou not known me, Philip? he that hath seen me hath seen the Father; and how sayest thou then, Shew us the Father?
Joh 14:10 Believest thou not that I am in the Father, and the Father in me? the words that I speak unto you I speak not of myself: but the Father that dwelleth in me, he doeth the works.
Joh 14:11 Believe me that I am in the Father, and the Father in me: or else believe me for the very works' sake.
Joh 14:12 Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that believeth on me, the works that I do shall he do also; and greater works than these shall he do; because I go unto my Father.
I see that Jesus, The Father, and the Holy Ghost are in Heaven.
Joh 14:6 Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me.
Joh 14:7 If ye had known me, ye should have known my Father also: and from henceforth ye know him, and have seen him.
Joh 14:8 Philip saith unto him, Lord, shew us the Father, and it sufficeth us.
Joh 14:9 Jesus saith unto him, Have I been so long time with you, and yet hast thou not known me, Philip? he that hath seen me hath seen the Father; and how sayest thou then, Shew us the Father?
Joh 14:10 Believest thou not that I am in the Father, and the Father in me? the words that I speak unto you I speak not of myself: but the Father that dwelleth in me, he doeth the works.
Joh 14:11 Believe me that I am in the Father, and the Father in me: or else believe me for the very works' sake.
Joh 14:12 Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that believeth on me, the works that I do shall he do also; and greater works than these shall he do; because I go unto my Father.