Who is Jesus?

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Mem

Senior Member
Sep 23, 2014
7,159
2,174
113
I think you forgot to introduce me the god who killed about 20,000,000 (The Flood of Noah)===> Gen 7:23
I've come to a total understanding of why God doesn't want idiots living forever.
 

Dino246

Senior Member
Jun 30, 2015
25,468
13,781
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There is a huge difference between believing that some rules are objective (sure, Christians really want to believe this) and whether those rules are actually objective.
Correct, which is why you have legions of atheists believing their rules should be obeyed by all.

Objectivity does not rest on some set of people claiming that some rules are valid for all.
Technically correct, but missing the mark because of the actual existence of objective rules.

Hundreds of religions all make that same claim for their own rules, and they can’t all be right, so that’s not any path to objectivity.
That they cannot all be right does not prove that none are right.

Obviously, Christians want to believe that the Bible offers objective moral rules, but such blind faith does not make it true.
It's not "blind" faith. The Bible does not "offer" objective rules; rather it tells us of the Creator of all humankind Who tells us by His own authority what those objective rules are.

At most, such faith can make it true for them, but that relativity is the opposite of objectivity.
Um, no. See the above regarding "the Creator".

Objectivity cannot depend on who you are, or what faith commitment you have made.
True.

What if some scientists ran around claiming true objectivity for their theories, just because they all are loyal alumni of Harvard?
Irrelevant. Let's not waste time with hypotheticals.

Both the Bible and the way Christians live exemplifies this lack of moral objectivity. The Bible just isn’t good enough.
"Good enough" according to what objective standard? You don't have any basis for making such a judgment.

Ultimately, any selected list of moral rules from the Bible will be hopelessly inadequate for modern life.
You're completely missing the point. Under your worldview, there is no source for objective rules. Under mine, there is. Whether you think the rules to which I hold are "adequate" or not doesn't change that.

Further, I welcome you to present a real situation (not a "What if...") for which you think the Bible's principles are inadequate.
 

Dino246

Senior Member
Jun 30, 2015
25,468
13,781
113
I think you forgot to introduce me the god who killed about 20,000,000 (The Flood of Noah)===> Gen 7:23
There is a very sound, rational, and fully moral reason for the flood. That you don't know or understand that reason doesn't mean the flood is somehow "immoral".
 

Dino246

Senior Member
Jun 30, 2015
25,468
13,781
113
The accuracy of the manuscripts of the Bible is a complex topic with various perspectives. While the original manuscripts no longer exist, scholars use textual criticism and manuscript evidence to analyze and compare different copies and translations. The presence of variants and differences among the manuscripts is acknowledged, but efforts are made to determine the most accurate readings. Ultimately, the accuracy of the Bible is a matter of faith and personal interpretation for individuals and communities.
Had you stopped before your last sentence, I could have agreed with you.

The accuracy of the Bible is certainly not a matter of faith, but of evidence. The vast majority of variants are very minor issues that don't affect doctrine at all. The remainder don't affect any primary doctrines.
 

Blade

Well-known member
Nov 19, 2019
1,779
624
113
I think you forgot to introduce me the god who killed about 20,000,000 (The Flood of Noah)===> Gen 7:23
Frist sorry for some things that were said.. shows you were still human :) the number you posted well no one knows for sure could have been a few thousands or as you posted 20mil. The thing is Angels left 1st estate and took not ask took women and had children of great renown. Then start to think about those those "Greek gods" starts to make sense. But He said every thought man had was evil. It is the classic I won't believe until I see yet creation alone shows He is real. Now me I would have to lie to say to say there is no God. Seen way to much then you see some man say "in Jesus name" and the woman starts to cry scream a bit and jump.. I found it she "was" blind not any more. The fact your not here by chance.

We had moved to Colorado to help my mom and I was just talking to the lord said "remember when that pastor came to our door? I kinda laughed and said be nice if you did that here since we don't know where to go". About a week or so later we get this knock late one night on the door and it was a older man looking for some person. I said sorry you have the wrong house. He says thank you starts to walk away then stops I hear him say "no the lord would not have me go to the wrong house for no reason". Comes back hands me this card. Hes a preacher. Jesus Christ is real all one has to do is just ask Him "if your who you say you are show me". They key is to ask from your heart. He will never ever go against your will. So me? What if its all fake? Hmm to help to love to be kind to show grace mercy to anyone.. oh.. yeah wonderful! But you know the next question.. what if Hes real?

Not sure why but a Rapper (Christian) comes to mind "NF". For you

"It's easy to blame God but harder to fix things
We look in the sky like, "why ain't You listening?"
Watching the news in our living rooms on the big screens
And talking 'bout "if God's really real, then where is He?"
You see the same God that you saying might not even exist
Becomes real to us, but only when we dying in bed
When ya healthy it's like, we don't really care for Him then
Leave me alone God, I'll call you when I need you again
Which is funny, everyone will sleep in the pews
Then blame God for our problems like He sleeping on you
We turn our backs on Him, what do you expect Him to do?
It's hard to answer prayers when nobody's praying to you
I look around at this world we walk on
It's a smack in the face, don't ever tell me there's no God
And if there isn't then what are we here for?
And what are y'all doing down there? I don't know Lord"
 

wattie

Senior Member
Feb 24, 2009
3,236
1,130
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New Zealand
The accuracy of the manuscripts of the Bible is a complex topic with various perspectives. While the original manuscripts no longer exist, scholars use textual criticism and manuscript evidence to analyze and compare different copies and translations. The presence of variants and differences among the manuscripts is acknowledged, but efforts are made to determine the most accurate readings. Ultimately, the accuracy of the Bible is a matter of faith and personal interpretation for individuals and communities.
Well.. the individuals and communities of the day believed that the Jesus of the Bible was a real person and Jesus to have been scourged and crucified and that the tomb is empty!

Non Christian testimony of the day believes this...they just came up with any explanation other than resurrection for the empty tomb!

Textual criticism is too removed... They will go to 'this accurately represents what the Jews and Gentiles of the time believed ' and then don't go to the factual level of actually....God was speaking to them!

I could say ...'you are posting in a forum to me and the content of what you are posting accurately represents what you believe '

That says nothing about the facts of the object you believe in.
 

montana123

Well-known member
Oct 9, 2021
856
286
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God is an invisible Spirit that no human, or angel, can see unless He shows a visible manifestation of Himself.

Jesus is God manifest in flesh which means He manifest all His attributes to the man Christ Jesus who is the visible image of the invisible God.

Which the Bible says the Son is the express image of God.

The Bible says that Jesus dwells in the light that no person can approach unto, and no person has ever seen Him, and no person will ever see Him, for He is an invisible Spirit but He showed a visible image of Himself.

Without the shedding of blood there is no remission of sins.

In the Old Testament they used animals blood to cover their sins, but their sins were never completely taken away, and a remembrance of their sins came up every year which they had to be covered again.

But the blood of Jesus takes away sins completely giving us a spiritual relationship with God if we accept Christ as Savior.

And only a sinless man can shed innocent blood to wash away mankind's sins, and no person is sinless so God manifest Himself in flesh, and gave His own human body to take away the sins of people.

Which He purchased the Church with His own blood, and He laid down His life, physical life, for us.

This throws people off how Jesus can be God when He is larger than what can fit in to a human body, and the man Christ Jesus is flesh.

God manifest Himself in flesh which means He manifest all His attributes to the man Christ Jesus for He is the fulness of the Godhead bodily.

And the Spirit in Christ is still connected to the omnipresent Spirit of God for He cannot be separated.

Jesus does not have His own Spirit that moves around with Him for there cannot be a double portion of the Spirit in one place, and an empty spot where the Spirit is not at but He walks through the Spirit and wherever He is at the Spirit is there.

So Jesus is an omnipresent Spirit that is showing a visible image of Himself as the man Christ Jesus moves through the Spirit with the fulness of the attributes of God.
 

montana123

Well-known member
Oct 9, 2021
856
286
63
I think you forgot to introduce me the god who killed about 20,000,000 (The Flood of Noah)===> Gen 7:23
For people who think God is cruel He is not cruel but it is humans that is cruel.

Everything that God does is for the protection of people.

He puts down a thousand to save 10 thousand.

Before the flood the world was filled with violence, and they had corrupted God's ways on Earth which is to love, and care about each other, and the imaginations of their heart was only evil continually.

People could not be right with God, and if He did not intervene with the flood more people would of been killed through the years than the people He took out which is what happens when the world does not have God operating in it.

The only way they could be that bad is if the fallen angels had influenced them.

And it is going to happen again in the future which God told us of the new age movement which they interpret the Bible according to the occult and evolution, and people are still evolving to be spiritual, and a god, and Jesus evolved to be an ascended master, and there is no personal God, and the New Age Christ is the final teacher, and above Jesus.

The time will come the people will want to hear the Bible according to their own lusts which is the new age movement, and they will be turned unto fables.

They shall come out at the latter times which is the last days of the last days.

They will be of seducing spirits and doctrines of devils which they follow Lucifer believing he is a god, and an alien, that gave mankind intelligence, and will help mankind to have peace, and advance, and evolve to be spiritual, and a god, along with the New Age Christ who will be Lucifer inhabiting a human body.

Which the new age movement is opening the door for the devils to interact with mankind which the United Nations supports new age organizations.

So they will be terribly wicked in the future when the New Age Christ starts working in the world pushing the agenda of the new age movement which he will think to change times and laws.

Which they will corrupt God's ways on Earth again, and the Earth will be filled with violence, and the imaginations of their heart will only be evil continually which they believe the mind creates reality more real than the world of sense.

Which the Bible says their conscious will be seared with a hot iron, and the New Age Christ by peace shall destroy many as they go forth taking out people for population reduction, and getting rid of people they do not want on Earth, and going against all people who oppose their system on Earth.

Which they are going to move all people in to the cities, and then they will be given a microchip linked to satellite like a GPS tracking system for human, and if a crime happens they will know who was in the area, and how close they were to the crime scene.

This will cut out judges, lawyers, and the now known police force, and the people will be the police force of the cities.

And this will happen when the New Age Christ negotiates peace in the Middle East resulting in a 7 years peace treaty, and the nations government coming together with the world split in to 10 sections with a leader in each section who are in league with the New Age Christ.

Then in three and one half years all people will be moved in the cities, and they will be given the microchip, and then they will go against all people who oppose their system.

They will not show love, and will not care about people, and they not have mercy, and not have compassion, and want to exalt themselves, and be worse than the people at the flood, so God has to intervene again but this time He will end sin on Earth.

God is not cruel but people are cruel, and He only goes against nations, or kingdoms that have too much influence over other people with cruelty, and not compassion.

In the Old Testament after the flood if a nation, or kingdom, had a lot of influence over other people operating by cruelty, and not the ways of God to love, and care, then God would allow other nations, or kingdoms, to take them down to stop their actions.

And if children were wiped out God knows the hearts of people, and those children would of grown up and followed in the footsteps of their nation and would of taken other people's children out.

God puts down a thousand to save 10 thousand, and if God did not intervene in the Old Testament then more people would of been hurt, and killed, than the people that were taken down.