Who is the Angel Michael?

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KJV1611

Senior Member
Nov 23, 2013
10,850
593
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#61
If you continue in Zech. chapter 3 you will see that Joshua or Yehoshua, or Yeshua, or Jesus, are the Messiah.
The men of renown are the Apostles given to Him if He does what is given Him, which time shows He did…

Yehoshua is the older form of Heshua...…Jesus. Do not take my word on this, just read it.
Jaumej I think Zech 3 is saying that the BRANCH is Jesus.

Joshua was the high priest and the men wondered at are the ones raised from the dead when the BRANCH was sent forth to raise them from the dead.

Zec 3:8 Hear now, O Joshua the high priest, thou, and thy fellows that sit before thee: for they are men wondered at: for, behold, I will bring forth my servant the BRANCH.
 

KJV1611

Senior Member
Nov 23, 2013
10,850
593
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#62
Also please note that this has nothing to do with the archangel Michael, a created spirit being who also worships Christ, as do all the angels.
What makes you believe that the angel of the Lord has nothing to do with the archangel Michael?
Why do you believe that Michael was a created being?
 

bluto

Senior Member
Aug 4, 2016
1,510
243
63
#63
Hello bluto, :)

Thank you for your kind reply. So sorry my post has been confusing to you.

I do not believe the Angel of the Lord is the pre-incarnate Yeshua/Jesus Christ.

Christ is "Son of God" and "Son of Man." As Man, He is an Heir of Salvation and all heirs have ministering angel(s) assigned to them.

Hebrews 1:13-14 King James Version (KJV)
13 But to which of the angels said he at any time, Sit on my right hand, until I make thine enemies thy footstool?

14 Are they not all ministering spirits, sent forth to minister for them who shall be heirs of salvation?

Angels would often appear to Christ on the Earth and strengthen Him, even though He is the Son of God, as Son of Man His angel(s) ministered to Him.

In the first chapter of Revelation, Yeshua/Jesus says He gave the prophecy to John by His Angel - looks just like Yeshua/Jesus but is His Angel - His own personal angel, actually described in Chapter 10 of Revelation.

Revelation 1 King James Version (KJV)
1 The Revelation of Jesus Christ, which God gave unto him, to shew unto his servants things which must shortly come to pass; and he (Yeshua/Jesus) sent and signified it by his angel unto his servant John:

Revelation 10 King James Version (KJV)
10 And I saw another mighty angel come down from heaven, clothed with a cloud: and a rainbow was upon his head, and his face was as it were the sun, and his feet as pillars of fire: (Yeshua/Jesus Christ's Angel looks just like Him and it's NOT Michael.)

Understanding angels is not really important, just an interesting topic is all. It's really best to stay focused on Yeshua/Jesus Christ - our Lord, Savior and King! :love:(y)
If your going to make a statement like you just did here: "
I do not believe the Angel of the Lord is the pre-incarnate Yeshua/Jesus Christ.

Christ is "Son of God" and "Son of Man." As Man, He is an Heir of Salvation and all heirs have ministering angel(s) assigned to them."

Can you please give me your reason for the position you are taking? And yes, Jesus Christ referred to Himself as the "Son of God" and as the "Son of Man" oftentimes. Let me digress for a second. Jesus Christ is the only person to have two natures, one on His Father's side and one on His mother's side.

On His mother's side He has a human nature and on His Father's side His nature is deity/God. Jesus did not have a human father like we do. This is why the Bible teaches that Jesus Christ is the one and only Son of God.

Now, what I see your "stuck" on is your misunderstanding of the word "angel." Your thinking that since Jesus Christ was ministered to by angels, He therefore cannot be an angel Himself. I'm telling you that He is not an angel based on the fact that the word "angel" (as I explained earlier) does not mean that the person is an actual angel like Michael or Gabriel. Again, Jesus Christ created the angels therefore He cannot be an angel Himself.

When it says the angel of the Lord it is really saying (as it pertains to Jesus) the "messenger" of the Lord. Men are called angels and they two are not real angels but "messengers/prophets"of God.

And btw, the book of Revelation has "NOTHING" to do with what we are discussing. Look at it this way and I'm saying this so you can think! Your reading the OT of the Bible and you come to Genesis 17:1 and it says, "Now when Abraham was ninety-nine years old, THE LORD APPEARED TO ABRAM and said, "I am God Almighty etc." In fact we can go back to Genesis 12:7, "And the Lord appeared to Abram and said etc."

Would you not ask yourself, "Hmnn, I thought the Lord God cannot be seen because God is a spiritual being?" How then could he appear to Abraham? Or appear to Hagar at Genesis 16, and many other OT saints? So my question to you is how do you explain what appears to be a contradiction? This is what I mean by "thinking?" Would it not "behoove" you to study this out for an answer?

We are commanded to give reasons for the faith that is in us. 1 Peter 3:15, "but sanctify Christ as Lord in your hearts, ALWAYS BEING READY TO MAKE A DEFENSE TO EVERYONE WHO ASKS YOU TO GIVE AN ACCOUNT FOR THE HOPE THAT IS IN YOU, with gentleness and reverence." Doesn't that make sense?

You see, Jesus Christ the Son of God is the one and only physical manifestation of God His Father and the Holy Spirit. This is why John 1:18 states, "No man has seen God at anytime, the only begotten God, who is in the bosom of the Father, He has explained Him." The Son of God is God's interpreter. God did not entrust His full revelation to be given by men: He took the initiative to declare it for himself.

Finally, you said this? "
Understanding angels is not really important, just an interesting topic is all. It's really best to stay focused on Yeshua/Jesus Christ - our Lord, Savior and King!" Don't sell yourself short, eveything is impotant and staying focused on the Bible/God's Word is the same as staying focused on Jesus Christ. I realize that we are all at differenct levels of our Christianity and I also realize that it takes hard work and a committed heart to study and keep studying but in the end, it's all worth it and it should be our honor. There will be more "valleys" than peaks in the Christian life, at least for me, but never give up because He will never give up on us. :eek:

ON GOD THE SON,
bluto
 

Lafftur

Senior Member
Apr 18, 2017
3,698
1,645
113
#64
If your going to make a statement like you just did here: "
I do not believe the Angel of the Lord is the pre-incarnate Yeshua/Jesus Christ.

Christ is "Son of God" and "Son of Man." As Man, He is an Heir of Salvation and all heirs have ministering angel(s) assigned to them."

Can you please give me your reason for the position you are taking? And yes, Jesus Christ referred to Himself as the "Son of God" and as the "Son of Man" oftentimes. Let me digress for a second. Jesus Christ is the only person to have two natures, one on His Father's side and one on His mother's side.

On His mother's side He has a human nature and on His Father's side His nature is deity/God. Jesus did not have a human father like we do. This is why the Bible teaches that Jesus Christ is the one and only Son of God.

Now, what I see your "stuck" on is your misunderstanding of the word "angel." Your thinking that since Jesus Christ was ministered to by angels, He therefore cannot be an angel Himself. I'm telling you that He is not an angel based on the fact that the word "angel" (as I explained earlier) does not mean that the person is an actual angel like Michael or Gabriel. Again, Jesus Christ created the angels therefore He cannot be an angel Himself.

When it says the angel of the Lord it is really saying (as it pertains to Jesus) the "messenger" of the Lord. Men are called angels and they two are not real angels but "messengers/prophets"of God.

And btw, the book of Revelation has "NOTHING" to do with what we are discussing. Look at it this way and I'm saying this so you can think! Your reading the OT of the Bible and you come to Genesis 17:1 and it says, "Now when Abraham was ninety-nine years old, THE LORD APPEARED TO ABRAM and said, "I am God Almighty etc." In fact we can go back to Genesis 12:7, "And the Lord appeared to Abram and said etc."

Would you not ask yourself, "Hmnn, I thought the Lord God cannot be seen because God is a spiritual being?" How then could he appear to Abraham? Or appear to Hagar at Genesis 16, and many other OT saints? So my question to you is how do you explain what appears to be a contradiction? This is what I mean by "thinking?" Would it not "behoove" you to study this out for an answer?

We are commanded to give reasons for the faith that is in us. 1 Peter 3:15, "but sanctify Christ as Lord in your hearts, ALWAYS BEING READY TO MAKE A DEFENSE TO EVERYONE WHO ASKS YOU TO GIVE AN ACCOUNT FOR THE HOPE THAT IS IN YOU, with gentleness and reverence." Doesn't that make sense?

You see, Jesus Christ the Son of God is the one and only physical manifestation of God His Father and the Holy Spirit. This is why John 1:18 states, "No man has seen God at anytime, the only begotten God, who is in the bosom of the Father, He has explained Him." The Son of God is God's interpreter. God did not entrust His full revelation to be given by men: He took the initiative to declare it for himself.

Finally, you said this? "
Understanding angels is not really important, just an interesting topic is all. It's really best to stay focused on Yeshua/Jesus Christ - our Lord, Savior and King!" Don't sell yourself short, eveything is impotant and staying focused on the Bible/God's Word is the same as staying focused on Jesus Christ. I realize that we are all at differenct levels of our Christianity and I also realize that it takes hard work and a committed heart to study and keep studying but in the end, it's all worth it and it should be our honor. There will be more "valleys" than peaks in the Christian life, at least for me, but never give up because He will never give up on us. :eek:

ON GOD THE SON,
bluto
It is wonderful that God never gives up on us!

He is so faithful and does not require us to understand angels so that we can be saved.

Ever ponder this thought....:unsure:

If Yeshua/Jesus the Son of God, full of the Holy Spirit yet, when His flesh was weak and struggling, angels ministered to Him then........

angels will minister to us, too. Ever been helped by a “stranger”.....:unsure: :love:

It’s been fun chatting with you bluto. Probably neither of us is correct in our understanding but, it’s nice to share our opinions together without attacking each other. :love:(y)
 

JaumeJ

Senior Member
Jul 2, 2011
16,090
3,009
113
#65
Jaumej I think Zech 3 is saying that the BRANCH is Jesus.

Joshua was the high priest and the men wondered at are the ones raised from the dead when the BRANCH was sent forth to raise them from the dead.

Zec 3:8 Hear now, O Joshua the high priest, thou, and thy fellows that sit before thee: for they are men wondered at: for, behold, I will bring forth my servant the BRANCH.
Joshua is Jesus.
 

Noose

Senior Member
Apr 18, 2016
4,407
777
113
#66
Let me ask you this question noose? As we know Genesis 1:1 says, "In the beginning God," At John 1:1 it says, "In the beginning was the Word." Is the Apostle John's beginning referring to the Genesis 1:1 beginning? :eek:

IN GOD THE SON,
bluto
Yes.
 

JaumeJ

Senior Member
Jul 2, 2011
16,090
3,009
113
#68
Joshua, or Yehosua, is the Nazar...…………...the Branch.
The entire chapter 3 of Zechariah is the Faddther and the Son having a conversation about what the Son is commissioned to do upon His first advent to this earth.

Being of Nazareth He was not only a Nazarite but a Nazar, that is Hebrew for Branch.
 

garee

Senior Member
Mar 28, 2016
11,515
1,005
113
#69
I would like to point out a couple of things that makes your post a little confusing and contradictory. First, when you see the word "angle" in the Old Testament do "NOT" assume it's an actual angel just because the word "angel" is used. The Hebrew word for angel is "malik." The word simply means "messenger."

Men are also referred to as "angels" in the OT but they are not actual angels, they are "messengers." The prophet "Malachi" who is a human being is a messenger and his name, "Malachi" is from the Hebrew word "malik."

Now, you said this? "Great information about God and angels. Might I recommend a "measuring stick" to judge correctly in scripture if God is appearing as an angel or man.......:unsure:" THE angel of the Lord (who is the preincarnate Jesus Christ) is not an angel nor is He a man. In the OT he took the form of a man temporarily just like actual angels can take the form of a man. When Jesus incarnated He became a man permanently.

Also, at Genesis 18 three men appeared to Abraham. One of them was the angel of the Lord and the other two were actual angels. I don't think Abraham thought that one of them was the Lord even though vs1 says, "Now the Lord appeared to him by the oaks of Mamre, while he was sitting at the tent door in the heat of the day." What happened is being explained for our benefit as we read the account.


Now, the first appearance of the angel of the Lord is at Genesis 16:7 as the angel of the Lord. If you read the account the angel of the Lord multiplies Hagar's descendants, vs10. Hagar recognizes the angel of the Lord as God at vs13. Also notice at Genesis 17:1,2,
Now when Abram was ninety-nine years old, the Lord appeared to Abram and said to him, "I am God Almighty, Walk before Me and be blameless, vs2, And I will establish My covenant between Me and you, And I will multiply you exceedingly."

It would be a very good bet that the angel of the Lord in Genesis 16 is the same "BEING" as at Genesis 17:1-2 and through the rest of the chapter. For more information on this please read my post in this thread #24. I hope this makes sense. :eek:

IN THE ANGEL OF THE LORD,
bluto

Thanks that makes perfect sence In the last say he spoke through his messenger, Jesus .

God is not a man.
 

garee

Senior Member
Mar 28, 2016
11,515
1,005
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#70
Angels would often appear to Christ on the Earth and strengthen Him, even though He is the Son of God, as Son of Man His angel(s) ministered to Him.

In the first chapter of Revelation, Yeshua/Jesus says He gave the prophecy to John by His Angel - looks just like Yeshua/Jesus but is His Angel - His own personal angel, actually described in Chapter 10 of Revelation.

I think it would be more of the unseen messages as spirits of truth that the father sent the Son in order to strengthen him and finish the work.

Jesus did not call on the help of angels but the voice of the father. Two working in harmony with one another together to bring the peace of God.

It worked the same with the reluctant messenger Jonas. God working in us to both will and perform his good pleasure.
 

bluto

Senior Member
Aug 4, 2016
1,510
243
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#71
My next questiuon is "rhetorical" which is, how do you know? I would say no based on the following Biblical explanation. At John 1:2 and the word "beginning" which is the Greek word arche. We get our English word "architect" from the Greek word arche.

The actual Greek is en arche-that is, "in beginning." The Word of God thus was there before the creation of the space-mass-time of the universe, which means John's beginning even antecedes the Genesis beginning at Genesis 1:1.

So you have at Genesis 1:1 saying "In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth. John 1:1 says, "In the beginning was the Word, and the word was with God, and the Word was God. Both verses start out with the same three words. And here's the "kicker" or the point.

The main thought in Genesis 1:1 is WHAT HAPPENED in the beginning. At John 1:1 the main thought or the emphasis is on WHO EXISTED in the beginning. This is backed up by John 1:3 where it says, "All things came into being by Him/Jeus Christ, and apart (or without Him) NOTHING has came into being that has come into being."

Plus you have Jesus Himself in His humanity at John 17:5 saying, "And now glorify Me together with Thyself, Father, with the glory which I had with Thee BEFORE THE WORLD WAS." Moreover you have Jesus Christ identified as the Creator at Colossians 1:16, at Hebrews 1:10 by His Father and at Revelation 3:14. Does this all make sense? :eek:

IN GOD THE SON,
bluto
 

CS1

Moderator
May 23, 2012
4,136
916
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#72
Who is the Angel Michael?

Just as God took on “flesh” and became “human,” could God also take on angelic flesh and become “angelic”?

Is Michael “God in angelic form”?

No wrong or right answers here - just thoughts and opinions........let everyone speak and respect each other. :love:(y)
The Angel Michael I think and I am going out on a limb saying this but he is the Angel Michael .
 

Blik

Senior Member
Dec 6, 2016
1,726
501
113
#73
Who is the Angel Michael?

Just as God took on “flesh” and became “human,” could God also take on angelic flesh and become “angelic”?

Is Michael “God in angelic form”?

No wrong or right answers here - just thoughts and opinions........let everyone speak and respect each other. :love:(y)
It seems to me that most people have not studied angels, and many are assuming what angels are rather than simply accepting the Lord's words in plain simple English. I read that "what scripture really says", and scripture is straight forward and says what it means.

If you put all that is written about angels in all ancient writings, then go to only accepted scripture to check to see if it is true this is what you find and it checks out.

There are three classes of angels and they are angels, not gods in any way. There were six archangels but when a third of heaven rebelled only four were left: Michael, Gabriel, Raphael, and Uriel. The archangel of light became Satan when he rebelled.

The Seraphim and angels of fire and are messengers of God. Jacob's ladder is referring to them as they go back and forth between us and heaven. The third class is Teraphim and they are referred to in our scripture when scripture speaks of angels appearing as men as in Hebrews 13:2 saying angels can appear as men and in reports of men actually being angels and in Gen. 18:2 when Abraham saw three men who were angels. The Teraphim are called watchers in scripture.
 

bluto

Senior Member
Aug 4, 2016
1,510
243
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#74
It seems to me that most people have not studied angels, and many are assuming what angels are rather than simply accepting the Lord's words in plain simple English. I read that "what scripture really says", and scripture is straight forward and says what it means.

If you put all that is written about angels in all ancient writings, then go to only accepted scripture to check to see if it is true this is what you find and it checks out.

There are three classes of angels and they are angels, not gods in any way. There were six archangels but when a third of heaven rebelled only four were left: Michael, Gabriel, Raphael, and Uriel. The archangel of light became Satan when he rebelled.

The Seraphim and angels of fire and are messengers of God. Jacob's ladder is referring to them as they go back and forth between us and heaven. The third class is Teraphim and they are referred to in our scripture when scripture speaks of angels appearing as men as in Hebrews 13:2 saying angels can appear as men and in reports of men actually being angels and in Gen. 18:2 when Abraham saw three men who were angels. The Teraphim are called watchers in scripture.
Actually at Genesis 18 two of the men that appeared to Abraham were actual angels. The other man was the preincarnate Jesus Christ who is identified as the angel of the Lord. Please read Genesis 18:1, "Now the Lord appeared to him by the oaks of Mamre, while he was sitting at the tent door in the heat of the day," I suggest you read the whole chapter and you will discover that Abraham is talking with the Lord God about Sodom and Gomorrah. :eek:

IN THE ANGEL OF THE LORD,
bluto
 

garee

Senior Member
Mar 28, 2016
11,515
1,005
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#75
Actually at Genesis 18 two of the men that appeared to Abraham were actual angels. The other man was the preincarnate Jesus Christ who is identified as the angel of the Lord. Please read Genesis 18:1, "Now the Lord appeared to him by the oaks of Mamre, while he was sitting at the tent door in the heat of the day," I suggest you read the whole chapter and you will discover that Abraham is talking with the Lord God about Sodom and Gomorrah. :eek:

IN THE ANGEL OF THE LORD,
bluto

Yes angels as men the bringing messages of the Spirit of truth messages from God. Messengers of Satan bring the spirit of error in order to make the messages of God without effect.

John 1 King James Version (KJV) In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. The same was in the beginning with God.

The flesh of Jesus was not with Him in the beginning.

Jesus as the Son of man said his flesh typified as sinful profits for nothings. It is the unseen Spirit that alone does quicken our soul giving us a new spirit and new heart as new creatures..

God is not a man as us. (impossible) He did not become a corrupted creation . A body reckoned as sinful was needed for the one time demonstration of a finished work the lamb slain from the foundation. (Romans 8:3.)

The unseen work of the father and Son working together in perfect harmony and submissiveness to one another. Just as promised in Isaiah 53

Together the father and the Son of God . Not the Son of man bring the peace of God that surpasses our human understanding ( faith not of us is needed)


Jesus as the Son of man has a beginning and a end of life . Some did know him after the flesh .but when he left I he made it slear we know him no motre forever more in that way

.
 

Noose

Senior Member
Apr 18, 2016
4,407
777
113
#76
My next questiuon is "rhetorical" which is, how do you know? I would say no based on the following Biblical explanation. At John 1:2 and the word "beginning" which is the Greek word arche. We get our English word "architect" from the Greek word arche.

The actual Greek is en arche-that is, "in beginning." The Word of God thus was there before the creation of the space-mass-time of the universe, which means John's beginning even antecedes the Genesis beginning at Genesis 1:1.

So you have at Genesis 1:1 saying "In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth. John 1:1 says, "In the beginning was the Word, and the word was with God, and the Word was God. Both verses start out with the same three words. And here's the "kicker" or the point.

The main thought in Genesis 1:1 is WHAT HAPPENED in the beginning. At John 1:1 the main thought or the emphasis is on WHO EXISTED in the beginning. This is backed up by John 1:3 where it says, "All things came into being by Him/Jeus Christ, and apart (or without Him) NOTHING has came into being that has come into being."

Plus you have Jesus Himself in His humanity at John 17:5 saying, "And now glorify Me together with Thyself, Father, with the glory which I had with Thee BEFORE THE WORLD WAS." Moreover you have Jesus Christ identified as the Creator at Colossians 1:16, at Hebrews 1:10 by His Father and at Revelation 3:14. Does this all make sense? :eek:

IN GOD THE SON,
bluto
There's only one beginning and also one end.
Jesus is the beginning and the end too.
 

garee

Senior Member
Mar 28, 2016
11,515
1,005
113
#77
There's only one beginning and also one end.
Jesus is the beginning and the end too.
Jesus as the Son of God (Not seen) . or Jesus as the Son of man (the temporal seen) at birth ?


Romans 1:3-5 King James Version (KJV) Concerning his Son Jesus Christ our Lord, which was made of the seed of David according to the flesh; And declared to be the Son of God with power, according to the spirit of holiness, by the resurrection from the dead: (not by his birth) By whom we have received grace and apostleship, for obedience to the faith among all nations, for his name:

I would offer. No such thing as holiness of corrupted flesh.
 
Jul 2, 2019
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#78
Who is the Angel Michael?


Michael is mentioned three times in the Book of Daniel. all in the Book of Daniel. The prophet Daniel experiences a vision after having undergone a period of fasting.( Daniel 10:13-21 )describes Daniel's vision of an angel who identifies Michael as the protector of Israel.At (Daniel 12:1), Daniel is informed that Michael will arise during the "time of the end".The Book of Revelation (12:7-9) describes a war in heaven in which Michael, being stronger, and defeats Satan.
 

bluto

Senior Member
Aug 4, 2016
1,510
243
63
#79
There's only one beginning and also one end.
Jesus is the beginning and the end too.
You did "NOT" address one word of what I posted, why? Instead you just stated the obvious which is that Jesus Christ is the "First and the last" and the "Alpha & Omega." Revelation 1:8 and Revelation 1:17. Again, why noose, what are you afraid of? :eek:

IN THE ANGEL OF THE LORD,
bluto
 

Noose

Senior Member
Apr 18, 2016
4,407
777
113
#80
You did "NOT" address one word of what I posted, why? Instead you just stated the obvious which is that Jesus Christ is the "First and the last" and the "Alpha & Omega." Revelation 1:8 and Revelation 1:17. Again, why noose, what are you afraid of? :eek:

IN THE ANGEL OF THE LORD,
bluto
There's only one beginning. John 1 and Genesis 1 are talking of this one beginning. This should address all that you have asked.