Who is the first and second beast? (1 from sea, 1 from earth)

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Wansvic

Well-known member
Nov 27, 2018
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#21
Revelation 13:1 The dragon stood on the shore of the sea. And I saw a beast coming out of the sea. It had ten horns and seven heads, with ten crowns on its horns, and on each head a blasphemous name

Revelation 13:11 Then I saw a second beast, coming out of the earth. It had two horns like a lamb, but it spoke like a dragon

One from the sea, one from the earth. Very interesting dynamics. Bible is an amazing book. Thank you for your contributions brother.

I have been looking into this and I am very convinced this has something to do with Rome, as Rome was wounded, and will probably return in some form or fashion. Catholicism has always been there too, many say the Pope is the little horn of Daniel.
Notice Rev. 13:1 references John standing on the shore watching the beast rise from the sea. (nations)

The first beast depicts the antichrist and 10 kings who join together to form an alliance; a global one world government. An organization such as the United Nations but more likely the European Union. The heads represent nations. Notice the parallel in Daniel's prophecy concerning the last kingdom to exist at the time of Jesus' 2nd coming. (Chapter 7) The horns are kings. (Rev. 17:12) This is explained in Daniel 7:24 as well.

The second beast depicts the false prophet that looks like a lamb but speaks like a dragon/Satan. (Rev. 12:9) This false prophet ("spiritual" leader) causes the earth to worship the antichrist and his one world government. (Rev. 13:12) What "spiritual" leader has great sway with many, and has promoted ecumenism and Interfaithism? It is the Pope. The Pope has gone so far as to say all major religions are paths to the same God. The idea that Muslims, Buddhists, Jews and Christians worship the same one true living God is a myth. A deceptive myth that will result in the destruction of many.

With the preceding in mind, consider the last kingdom in Daniel's prophecy consists of two things, it is a mixture of iron and clay. (Dan. 2) This lines up with the 2 beasts mentioned in Revelation 13. How? The iron portion of the statute references the Roman Empire. However, the kingdom existing at the 2nd coming of Jesus will include iron mingled with clay. The picture begins to come into focus when one considers that the original Roman Empire became the HOLY Roman Empire when Pope Leo III crowned as emperor the strongest European (German) leader Charlemagne on Christmas Day in 800 AD. As such, combining religion and politics. Iron being the political system, and clay the religious system. As referenced in Daniel's prophecy the stone, which is Jesus, comes down and shatters the feet of iron and clay kingdom into pieces. And replaces it with His own kingdom. This indicates Jesus' return takes place during the time of the Holy Roman Empire. (Dan. 2:44, 7:22)

Note: The Holy Roman Empire was declared dead in 1806. However it was reborn on 11/3/2009 when the European Union signed a constitution of the United States of Europe. An Internet search will produce a surprising numbers of references to the connection between the EU and Charlemagne. Also, the EU's official logo consists of 12 stars in a circle. It would seem satan is yet again trying to cause confusion by imitating God. The bible provides evidence in Rev. 12:1 that the 12 stars represent the twelve tribes of Israel. (Gen. 37:9-10)

Didn't intend for the response to be so long, but one thing just led to another.
 

Live4Him3

Jesus is Lord
May 19, 2022
1,007
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#24
Bonus question: What is the number of a man, 666, or do we just not know it yet?
In this post, I will document how the infamous "666" is directly related to the Vatican/the Papacy.

We read:

Revelation chapter 13

[11] And I beheld another beast coming up out of the earth; and he had two horns like a lamb, and he spake as a dragon.
[12] And he exerciseth all the power of the first beast before him, and causeth the earth and them which dwell therein to worship the first beast, whose deadly wound was healed.
[13] And he doeth great wonders, so that he maketh fire come down from heaven on the earth in the sight of men,
[14] And deceiveth them that dwell on the earth by the means of those miracles which he had power to do in the sight of the beast; saying to them that dwell on the earth, that they should make an image to the beast, which had the wound by a sword, and did live.
[15] And he had power to give life unto the image of the beast, that the image of the beast should both speak, and cause that as many as would not worship the image of the beast should be killed.
[16] And he causeth all, both small and great, rich and poor, free and bond, to receive a mark in their right hand, or in their foreheads:
[17] And that no man might buy or sell, save he that had the mark, or the name of the beast, or the number of his name.
[18] Here is wisdom. Let him that hath understanding count the number of the beast: for it is the number of a man; and his number is Six hundred threescore and six.

For starters, a "beast" in Bible prophecy is representative of a "king" and his "kingdom".

For example, we read:

"These great beasts, which are four, are four kings, which shall arise out of the earth." (Daniel 7:17)

"Thus he said, The fourth beast shall be the fourth kingdom upon earth, which shall be diverse from all kingdoms, and shall devour the whole earth, and shall tread it down, and break it in pieces." (Daniel 7:23)

With such being the case, when we read of “another beast” (Rev. 13:11) who will work in close conjunction with “the first beast before him” (Rev. 13:12), or “the first beast, whose deadly wound was healed” (Rev. 13:12), we are reading of "another kingdom".

In fact, this “another beast” or "another kingdom" shall not only "say to them that dwell on the earth that they should make an image to the beast, which had the wound by a sword, and did live" (Rev. 13:14), but it shall also “cause all, both small and great, rich and poor, free and bond, to receive a mark in their right hand, or in their foreheads” in order that “no man might buy or sell, save he that had the mark, or the name of the beast, or the number of his name” (Rev. 13:16-17).

“The number of his name”?

Yes, “the number of his name”.

Please allow me to explain.

In both the Hebrew and Greek languages, all the letters of the alphabet have numeric values attached to them.

In the Latin language, which is the official language of the Vatican/the Papacy, only certain letters of the alphabet have numeric values attached to them, and we know them as “Roman numerals”.

Here are the letters from the Latin alphabet that have numeric values attached to them:

I = 1
V = 5
X = 10
L = 50
C = 100
D = 500
M = 1000

So, is the number of the pope’s name 666?

You tell me.

The following question and answer appeared in the April 18, 1915 edition of “Our Sunday Visitor” to the left of the bicycle image.

OSV1915 (1).gif

I quote:

“What are the letters supposed to be in the Pope’s crown, and what do they signify, if anything?

The letters inscribed in the Pope’s mitre are these: Vicarius Filii Dei, which is the Latin for Vicar of the Son of God.”

Well, if you know your Roman alphabet, then you know that the letter “v” was for a very long time used in the place of the letter “u”:

http://www.dictionary.com/e/theletteru/

In fact, you can see evidence of this at the base of this statue of Augustus Caesar by following this link:

https://www.zaragoza.es/cont/pagina...Do-y2gez9LEymiZdHGZfOp7jHWbQ2gvXqLffhNtw5Gpcw

If you click on the image once it appears, then it should enlarge for you, and you should be able to easily see how Caesar's name is spelled "Avgvsto" and "Avgvsta" at the statue's base or how the letter "v" is used in place of the letter "u".

You can also find clear evidence of this by walking into any liquor store and looking at the label on a bottle of Romana Sambuca (spelled "Sambvca"):

https://romanasambuca.com/

With such being the case, the letters on the Pope’s mitre would read in the following manner:

VICARIVS FILII DEI

Well, let’s do some basic addition using Roman numerals, okay?

V = 5
I = 1
C = 100
A = 0
R = 0
I = 1
V = 5
S = 0

F = 0
I =1
L = 50
I = 1
I = 1

D = 500
E = 0
I = 1

Add it all together, and what do we get?

112 + 53 + 501 = 666

Coincidence?

Not at all.

Just the fulfillment of Biblical prophecy and one of many indicators from scripture that the Vatican/the Papacy is “the first beast” (Rev. 13:12) or the antichrist kingdom of scripture.

Incidentally, did any of you happen to notice what time it was when “Francis” was elected as the new “pope”?

I did.

It was 7:06 p.m. or 6:66 p.m. as you can see for yourselves by following either or both of these two links:



Again, this is no coincidence.

Who has ears to hear, let them hear.
 

Live4Him3

Jesus is Lord
May 19, 2022
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#25
I have heard and read many say that the beast was NERO, but Nero did not rule for 42 months, he ruled for over a decade. So I don't believe it is Nero.

I have heard some say its the papacy, the Pope, but then it would have to somehow account for the fact that there are two beasts, first one is wounded, and then the second one makes everyone worship the first beast.
The Papacy/the Vatican is the first beast whose deadly wound was healed, and this is already fulfilled prophecy or past history.

I did a rather thorough job of explaining exactly how my first time here as "Live4Him".

You can read that two-part post at the following link if you're interested in doing so:

https://christianchat.com/bible-discussion-forum/revelation-17-8.198198/#post-4522192
 

JaumeJ

Senior Member
Jul 2, 2011
19,883
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#26
Unless one is hung up on the tribe of Judah only, there is no such thing as a denomination called Judaism in the Word nor was there at the time of our Savior's work on earth.

Israel is twelve tribes, elleven plus the two half tribes of Joseph. Israel was never a denomination but the chosen and failed nation He chose. for while they were in the wilderness they were disobedient, and by their disobedience salvation was gained by the antions.

Eretz is the land, not Israel. Israel was the nation.
 

Evmur

Well-known member
Feb 28, 2021
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#27
Please share what makes you believe the earth is a reference to Israel. Thank you.
it has to be, if you think ... if the sea represents the nations, the land can only refer to Israel.
 

Evmur

Well-known member
Feb 28, 2021
2,860
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#28
Unless one is hung up on the tribe of Judah only, there is no such thing as a denomination called Judaism in the Word nor was there at the time of our Savior's work on earth.

Israel is twelve tribes, elleven plus the two half tribes of Joseph. Israel was never a denomination but the chosen and failed nation He chose. for while they were in the wilderness they were disobedient, and by their disobedience salvation was gained by the antions.

Eretz is the land, not Israel. Israel was the nation.
but Paul says they haven't failed "have they stumbled so as to fall? God forbid" they have been laid aside temporarily until the fulness of the Gentiles be brought in.

If the sea represents to the Jew the nations then the land can only refer to Israel. And this false prophet is in cahoots with the Antichrist. He has the appearance of a lamb but spoke like the dragon. It is just as we expected, Israel will be in a pact with Antichrist until Antichrist breaks his pact and invades.
 

JaumeJ

Senior Member
Jul 2, 2011
19,883
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#29
It was our Father's plan that they fail . I hope you do not think our Father did not already know what they would do? Goodness, had dthey been perfect no one would be saved other than alal the original Israel on earth. No, all who come to believe Jesus Yeshi Yah are the true Israel of the King.
 

Evmur

Well-known member
Feb 28, 2021
2,860
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London
#30
It was our Father's plan that they fail . I hope you do not think our Father did not already know what they would do? Goodness, had dthey been perfect no one would be saved other than alal the original Israel on earth. No, all who come to believe Jesus Yeshi Yah are the true Israel of the King.
Jesus is King of the Jews. When He comes He comes as their King.
 

FreeGrace2

Well-known member
Jan 31, 2021
6,952
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#31
It was our Father's plan that they fail . I hope you do not think our Father did not already know what they would do?
These 2 sentences are contradictory. The first claims that God planned (caused) that people fail. The second acknowledges that God is omniscient. So He didn't have to plan or cause their failure.

To claim that God causes anyone to fail or sin, etc, is to ascribe sin to God Himself. Let's not do that.
 

ResidentAlien

Well-known member
Apr 21, 2021
3,167
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#32
Every single translation translates it "earth" or "ground."
it has to be, if you think ... if the sea represents the nations, the land can only refer to Israel.
Whether you think or not it doesn't necessarily follow that it "has to be"; there are a lot of equally good, or better, ideas. I've read this idea in commentaries; it's been a standard belief for a long time.

"Land" doesn't necessarily = earth. The Greek means earth, and that is how every translation translates it. Gaia, the Greek goddess, was the personification of the earth. Her name comes from .

The "sea" isn't necessarily the gentile nations either. It represents the Mediterranean and the nations in the general area around it, including Israel.
 

JaumeJ

Senior Member
Jul 2, 2011
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#33
Read Paul's definition of a true Jew, and you will find all who believe Jesus Yeshi Yah are praisers of God, for this is what Judah means.
 

JaumeJ

Senior Member
Jul 2, 2011
19,883
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#34
These 2 sentences are contradictory. The first claims that God planned (caused) that people fail. The second acknowledges that God is omniscient. So He didn't have to plan or cause their failure.

To claim that God causes anyone to fail or sin, etc, is to ascribe sin to God Himself. Let's not do that.
God knows His creation and His cretures. A watch maker knows how his watch will perform

God is much more than a watch maker.

Also, do not say that I would accuse God of being anything other than Perfect., for I know He is.
 

Live4Him3

Jesus is Lord
May 19, 2022
1,007
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#35
I have been looking into this and I am very convinced this has something to do with Rome, as Rome was wounded, and will probably return in some form or fashion. Catholicism has always been there too, many say the Pope is the little horn of Daniel.
The Vatican/the Papacy is Daniel’s “little horn” (Daniel 7:8) or “little kingdom”.

In Bible prophecy, a "horn" is representative of a "king" and his "kingdom".

For example, we read:

"And the ten horns out of this kingdom are ten kings that shall arise: and another shall rise after them; and he shall be diverse from the first, and he shall subdue three kings." (Daniel 7:24)

Again, we read:

"And the ten horns which thou sawest are ten kings, which have received no kingdom as yet; but receive power as kings one hour with the beast." (Revelation 17:12).

The antichrist is depicted as a "little horn" or a "little kingdom" in Daniel 7:8, and the world's littlest or smallest kingdom in none other than Vatican City.

https://www.history.com/news/10-thi...0rovwH17NojudYMtKvp1Hsxr9_UHbleAYJ5neHug8L3Ww

1. Vatican City is the smallest country in the world.

Encircled by a 2-mile border with Italy, Vatican City is an independent city-state that covers just over 100 acres, making it one-eighth the size of New York’s Central Park. Vatican City is governed as an absolute monarchy with the pope at its head.

Although this article doesn’t specifically mention that Vatican City is a “kingdom”, it does mention that it is “an absolute monarchy”, which is basically the same exact thing.

https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/monarch

monarch
noun

mon·arch | \ ˈmä-nərk , -ˌnärk \
Definition of monarch

1: a person who reigns over a kingdom or empire: such as
a: a sovereign ruler
b: a constitutional (see CONSTITUTIONAL entry 1 sense 3) king or queen

Vatican City is indeed "an absolute monarchy", and you can verify that for yourselves here:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_current_monarchies

In fact, the following blog clearly identifies Vatican City as a “kingdom” with the Pope as its “king”:

http://www.cgpgrey.com/blog/vatican-city-explained

Furthermore, Vatican Television Center offers a DVD entitled "THE VATICAN - Behind the scenes of the World's Smallest Kingdom", and you can verify that for yourselves here:

https://www.amazon.com/Vatican-Television-Center-presents-Smallest/dp/B001I4V8EE

Anyhow, just another Biblical indicator that the Vatican/the Papacy is the literal kingdom of antichrist.

When it comes to the kingdom of antichrist, as the old adage goes, "All roads lead to Rome" or to the Vatican/the Papacy, specifically.
 

RichMan

Well-known member
Dec 9, 2021
616
306
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#36
The Vatican/the Papacy is Daniel’s “little horn” (Daniel 7:8) or “little kingdom”.

In Bible prophecy, a "horn" is representative of a "king" and his "kingdom".

For example, we read:

"And the ten horns out of this kingdom are ten kings that shall arise: and another shall rise after them; and he shall be diverse from the first, and he shall subdue three kings." (Daniel 7:24)

Again, we read:

"And the ten horns which thou sawest are ten kings, which have received no kingdom as yet; but receive power as kings one hour with the beast." (Revelation 17:12).

The antichrist is depicted as a "little horn" or a "little kingdom" in Daniel 7:8, and the world's littlest or smallest kingdom in none other than Vatican City.

https://www.history.com/news/10-thi...0rovwH17NojudYMtKvp1Hsxr9_UHbleAYJ5neHug8L3Ww

1. Vatican City is the smallest country in the world.

Encircled by a 2-mile border with Italy, Vatican City is an independent city-state that covers just over 100 acres, making it one-eighth the size of New York’s Central Park. Vatican City is governed as an absolute monarchy with the pope at its head.

Although this article doesn’t specifically mention that Vatican City is a “kingdom”, it does mention that it is “an absolute monarchy”, which is basically the same exact thing.

https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/monarch

monarch
noun

mon·arch | \ ˈmä-nərk , -ˌnärk \
Definition of monarch

1: a person who reigns over a kingdom or empire: such as
a: a sovereign ruler
b: a constitutional (see CONSTITUTIONAL entry 1 sense 3) king or queen

Vatican City is indeed "an absolute monarchy", and you can verify that for yourselves here:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_current_monarchies

In fact, the following blog clearly identifies Vatican City as a “kingdom” with the Pope as its “king”:

http://www.cgpgrey.com/blog/vatican-city-explained

Furthermore, Vatican Television Center offers a DVD entitled "THE VATICAN - Behind the scenes of the World's Smallest Kingdom", and you can verify that for yourselves here:

https://www.amazon.com/Vatican-Television-Center-presents-Smallest/dp/B001I4V8EE

Anyhow, just another Biblical indicator that the Vatican/the Papacy is the literal kingdom of antichrist.

When it comes to the kingdom of antichrist, as the old adage goes, "All roads lead to Rome" or to the Vatican/the Papacy, specifically.
You are just wrong.
Look to the Middle East and Islam for the anti-christ and the 10 kingdom beast.
 

Live4Him3

Jesus is Lord
May 19, 2022
1,007
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#37
You are just wrong.
Look to the Middle East and Islam for the anti-christ and the 10 kingdom beast.
Nope.

You're the one who is in grievous error.

I'll stick with the descriptions that we're given in the Bible and their fulfillment in the Vatican/the Papacy.

P.S.

This is NOT to say that Islam isn't an antichristian religion because it is, but it is not the kingdom of antichrist itself.

Seeing how the "pope" has been aligning himself with Islamic nations for years, I fully expect that at least some of them will comprise the "ten horns" or the "ten kings/kingdoms" who will give their power to "the beast" in the future.
 

FreeGrace2

Well-known member
Jan 31, 2021
6,952
888
113
#38
FreeGrace2 said:
These 2 sentences are contradictory. The first claims that God planned (caused) that people fail. The second acknowledges that God is omniscient. So He didn't have to plan or cause their failure.

To claim that God causes anyone to fail or sin, etc, is to ascribe sin to God Himself. Let's not do that.
God knows His creation and His cretures. A watch maker knows how his watch will perform

God is much more than a watch maker.

Also, do not say that I would accuse God of being anything other than Perfect., for I know He is.
Your post suggested that God causes men to fail, as if against their own ability.
 

JaumeJ

Senior Member
Jul 2, 2011
19,883
5,557
113
#39
FreeGrace2 said:
These 2 sentences are contradictory. The first claims that God planned (caused) that people fail. The second acknowledges that God is omniscient. So He didn't have to plan or cause their failure.

To claim that God causes anyone to fail or sin, etc, is to ascribe sin to God Himself. Let's not do that.

Your post suggested that God causes men to fail, as if against their own ability.
Read it again withunderstanding.
 

montana123

Active member
Oct 9, 2021
271
100
43
#40
I have heard and read many say that the beast was NERO, but Nero did not rule for 42 months, he ruled for over a decade. So I don't believe it is Nero.

I have heard some say its the papacy, the Pope, but then it would have to somehow account for the fact that there are two beasts, first one is wounded, and then the second one makes everyone worship the first beast.


I am not making this thread to tell everyone what is what, it is my humble request we would all shoot ideas and consider each perspective.

I would also like to hear what does the phrases "From the Sea" and "From the earth" mean, why are these beasts from different places? I take the sea to be symbolic of multitude of peoples as elsewhere in revelation?

Bonus question: What is the number of a man, 666, or do we just not know it yet?
The first beast is the New Age Christ, antichrist, and the second beast is the false prophet, which they both will come in the future.

The new age movement is the cause of the world rebelling against God which they interpret the Bible according to the occult and evolution and people are still evolving to be spiritual and godlike, and Jesus is not Lord and Savior but a good teacher in spiritual enlightenment and evolved to be an ascended master, and believe in no personal God but honor the God of forces or the power of nature as their higher power the evolutionary process, and the New Age Christ is the final teacher.

The New Age Christ will be of the occult and the occult believes in the power of numbers and the timing, adding, and grouping of numbers which they believe will give them more power through nature.

6 is the number of the soul of man so the New Age Christ assigned himself the number 666, a triple 6, because he believes it will give him more power through nature to establish his kingdom and prosper.

Revelation 13:3 And I saw one of his heads as it were wounded to death; and his deadly wound was healed: and all the world wondered after the beast.

Revelation 17:9-11 And here is the mind which hath wisdom. The seven heads are seven mountains, on which the woman sitteth.

10And there are seven kings: five are fallen, and one is, and the other is not yet come; and when he cometh, he must continue a short space.

11And the beast that was, and is not, even he is the eighth, and is of the seven, and goeth into perdition.

There are 7 kings. 5 are fallen, Egypt, Assyria, Babylon, Medo-Persia, Greece. 1 is at the time John wrote Revelation, the Roman Empire. 1 is to come and will continue a short space, 10 horn kingdom, the world split in to 10 sections with a leader in each section which will rule for three and one half years, and the 8th king is the New Age Christ who will rule for three and one half years.

The 8th king is of the 7 kings which means the devil influenced those kingdoms which are the 7 heads of the beast.

The 7th king failed to provide peace for the world and the world lost hope, and was in despair, but the antichrist gave them hope and that there would be peace and the deadly wound was healed.

Revelation 12:3 And there appeared another wonder in heaven; and behold a great red dragon, having seven heads and ten horns, and seven crowns upon his heads.

Revelation 13:1 And I stood upon the sand of the sea, and saw a beast rise up out of the sea, having seven heads and ten horns, and upon his horns ten crowns, and upon his heads the name of blasphemy.

In Revelation 12 the crowns are on the heads which is Satan in the spiritual realm deceiving people by those 7 kingdoms.

In Revelation 13 the crowns are on the horns which is Satan in the physical realm as the New Age Christ deceiving people.