Who Justifieth the Ungodly
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no Jesus = no faith.
I understood you asked the question have you understood my op.
Do you understand we would have no faith, without Jesus, therefore we can not Justify our faith, via leaning on our own understanding. The ungodly where never Justified until they turned to the new faith, what I'm saying is a new faith was made by Jesus. A new way in which we could worship praise honour, commune, I thought you where saying such. but obviously you where not so now I don't understand your op, but perhaps you could explain further.
I understood you asked the question have you understood my op.
Do you understand we would have no faith, without Jesus, therefore we can not Justify our faith, via leaning on our own understanding. The ungodly where never Justified until they turned to the new faith, what I'm saying is a new faith was made by Jesus. A new way in which we could worship praise honour, commune, I thought you where saying such. but obviously you where not so now I don't understand your op, but perhaps you could explain further.
happy hobno
I consider this false since the ungodly elect were Justified by the death/blood of Christ while ungodly, enemies ! Rom 5:9-10
9 Much more then, being now justified by his blood, we shall be saved from wrath through him.
10 For if, when we were enemies, we were reconciled to God by the death of his Son, much more, being reconciled, we shall be saved by his life.
I consider this false since the ungodly elect were Justified by the death/blood of Christ while ungodly, enemies ! Rom 5:9-10
9 Much more then, being now justified by his blood, we shall be saved from wrath through him.
10 For if, when we were enemies, we were reconciled to God by the death of his Son, much more, being reconciled, we shall be saved by his life.
nope ... 1 Cor 2:14 tells us the mystery, the hidden wisdom cannot be understood.
Paul tells us in 1 Cor 2:6 those with whom he was able to discuss the mystery, the hidden wisdom ... and not just the mystery, the hidden wisdom but also the things which ...
Eye hath not seen, nor ear heard, neither have entered into the heart of man,God hath prepared for them that love him (1 Cor 2:9)
are freely given to us of God (1 Cor 2:12)
the Holy Ghost teacheth; comparing spiritual things with spiritual (1 Cor 2:13)
... and according to 1 Cor 2:6, Paul spoke of these things with those who were mature, of full age:
1 Corinthians 2:6 Howbeit we speak wisdom among them that are perfect [Greek teleios = mature, of full age]: yet not the wisdom of this world, nor of the princes of this world, that come to nought
Paul taught Christ and Him crucified (the gospel) to the general congregation which consisted of mature believers, new born again ones, those who had been born again for awhile (but were carnal so their growth in the Lord was stunted), and unbelievers.
Quit manipulating Scripture in your futile attempt to support erroneous dogma. You are to align your dogma with Scripture and where you are in error, let go of the error.
READ YOUR BIBLE!!!
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Paul tells us in 1 Cor 2:6 those with whom he was able to discuss the mystery, the hidden wisdom ... and not just the mystery, the hidden wisdom but also the things which ...
Eye hath not seen, nor ear heard, neither have entered into the heart of man,God hath prepared for them that love him (1 Cor 2:9)
are freely given to us of God (1 Cor 2:12)
the Holy Ghost teacheth; comparing spiritual things with spiritual (1 Cor 2:13)
... and according to 1 Cor 2:6, Paul spoke of these things with those who were mature, of full age:
1 Corinthians 2:6 Howbeit we speak wisdom among them that are perfect [Greek teleios = mature, of full age]: yet not the wisdom of this world, nor of the princes of this world, that come to nought
Paul taught Christ and Him crucified (the gospel) to the general congregation which consisted of mature believers, new born again ones, those who had been born again for awhile (but were carnal so their growth in the Lord was stunted), and unbelievers.
Quit manipulating Scripture in your futile attempt to support erroneous dogma. You are to align your dogma with Scripture and where you are in error, let go of the error.
READ YOUR BIBLE!!!
.
"ungodly elect" ... another of your unsubstantiated beliefs ... right up there with your claim submitted in Post 1804 that "those He died for do not have to believe it, accept itor do anything but continue being ungodly sinners" 
The word "reconciled" is translated from Greek katallássō – decisively change, as when two parties reconcile when coming ("changing") to the same position.
God (the Party of the first part) established His eternal purpose in eternity past ... and He reconciled Himself to mankind through the death of His Son.
The believer (the party of the second part) is reconciled at the time he/she believes on Him that raised up Jesus our Lord from the dead (Rom 4:24). At that point, both parties (God and the believer) came to the same position (see definition of reconciled translated from Greek katallássō).
The one who is justified by faith (Rom 5:1) is no longer an enemy because he/she is now reconciled. Both parties are now reconciled.
Romans 4:
20 He [Abraham] staggered not at the promise of God through unbelief; but was strong in faith, giving glory to God;
21 And being fully persuaded that, what he [God] had promised, he [God] was able also to perform.
22 And therefore it was imputed to him for righteousness.
23 Now it was not written for his sake alone, that it [righteousness] was imputed to him;
24 But for us also, to whom it [righteousness] shall be imputed, if we believe on him that raised up Jesus our Lord from the dead;
25 Who was delivered for our offences, and was raised again for our justification.
5:1 Therefore being justified by faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ
.
The word "reconciled" is translated from Greek katallássō – decisively change, as when two parties reconcile when coming ("changing") to the same position.
God (the Party of the first part) established His eternal purpose in eternity past ... and He reconciled Himself to mankind through the death of His Son.
The believer (the party of the second part) is reconciled at the time he/she believes on Him that raised up Jesus our Lord from the dead (Rom 4:24). At that point, both parties (God and the believer) came to the same position (see definition of reconciled translated from Greek katallássō).
The one who is justified by faith (Rom 5:1) is no longer an enemy because he/she is now reconciled. Both parties are now reconciled.
Romans 4:
20 He [Abraham] staggered not at the promise of God through unbelief; but was strong in faith, giving glory to God;
21 And being fully persuaded that, what he [God] had promised, he [God] was able also to perform.
22 And therefore it was imputed to him for righteousness.
23 Now it was not written for his sake alone, that it [righteousness] was imputed to him;
24 But for us also, to whom it [righteousness] shall be imputed, if we believe on him that raised up Jesus our Lord from the dead;
25 Who was delivered for our offences, and was raised again for our justification.
5:1 Therefore being justified by faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ
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Now, you're talking about the already/not yet of the gospel. In Colossians 1-2, Paul describes the gospel's already aspect. In other words, when Jesus died on the cross and rose from the dead, we are already made perfect in God's eyes; but we still have the sinful nature within us. Therefore, in chapters three and four, he commands us to take off that sinful nature and its qualities and put on the new nature characteristics--all based on Jesus' resurrection power (3:1).
We have to listen to what’s being said to the people reading the epistles in order to change stuff like this
“And they that are Christ's have crucified the flesh with the affections and lusts.”
Galatians 5:24 KJV
“Now the works of the flesh are manifest, which are these; Adultery, fornication, uncleanness, lasciviousness, idolatry, witchcraft, hatred, variance, emulations, wrath, strife, seditions, heresies, envyings, murders, drunkenness, revellings, and such like: of the which I tell you before, as I have also told you in time past, that they which do such things shall not inherit the kingdom of God.”
Galatians 5:19-21 KJV
we have to start accepting the things that teach us to repent and our tbat old nature to death with its affections and lusts
“And they that are Christ's have crucified the flesh with the affections and lusts.”
Galatians 5:24 KJV
“Now the works of the flesh are manifest, which are these; Adultery, fornication, uncleanness, lasciviousness, idolatry, witchcraft, hatred, variance, emulations, wrath, strife, seditions, heresies, envyings, murders, drunkenness, revellings, and such like: of the which I tell you before, as I have also told you in time past, that they which do such things shall not inherit the kingdom of God.”
Galatians 5:19-21 KJV
we have to start accepting the things that teach us to repent and our tbat old nature to death with its affections and lusts
"ungodly elect" ... another of your unsubstantiated beliefs ... right up there with your claim submitted in Post 1804 that "those He died for do not have to believe it, accept itor do anything but continue being ungodly sinners"
The word "reconciled" is translated from Greek katallássō – decisively change, as when two parties reconcile when coming ("changing") to the same position.
God (the Party of the first part) established His eternal purpose in eternity past ... and He reconciled Himself to mankind through the death of His Son.
The believer (the party of the second part) is reconciled at the time he/she believes on Him that raised up Jesus our Lord from the dead (Rom 4:24). At that point, both parties (God and the believer) came to the same position (see definition of reconciled translated from Greek katallássō).
The one who is justified by faith (Rom 5:1) is no longer an enemy because he/she is now reconciled. Both parties are now reconciled.
Romans 4:
20 He [Abraham] staggered not at the promise of God through unbelief; but was strong in faith, giving glory to God;
21 And being fully persuaded that, what he [God] had promised, he [God] was able also to perform.
22 And therefore it was imputed to him for righteousness.
23 Now it was not written for his sake alone, that it [righteousness] was imputed to him;
24 But for us also, to whom it [righteousness] shall be imputed, if we believe on him that raised up Jesus our Lord from the dead;
25 Who was delivered for our offences, and was raised again for our justification.
5:1 Therefore being justified by faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ
.
The word "reconciled" is translated from Greek katallássō – decisively change, as when two parties reconcile when coming ("changing") to the same position.
God (the Party of the first part) established His eternal purpose in eternity past ... and He reconciled Himself to mankind through the death of His Son.
The believer (the party of the second part) is reconciled at the time he/she believes on Him that raised up Jesus our Lord from the dead (Rom 4:24). At that point, both parties (God and the believer) came to the same position (see definition of reconciled translated from Greek katallássō).
The one who is justified by faith (Rom 5:1) is no longer an enemy because he/she is now reconciled. Both parties are now reconciled.
Romans 4:
20 He [Abraham] staggered not at the promise of God through unbelief; but was strong in faith, giving glory to God;
21 And being fully persuaded that, what he [God] had promised, he [God] was able also to perform.
22 And therefore it was imputed to him for righteousness.
23 Now it was not written for his sake alone, that it [righteousness] was imputed to him;
24 But for us also, to whom it [righteousness] shall be imputed, if we believe on him that raised up Jesus our Lord from the dead;
25 Who was delivered for our offences, and was raised again for our justification.
5:1 Therefore being justified by faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ
.
5 But to him that worketh not, but believeth on him that justifieth the ungodly, his faith is counted for righteousness.
“For the grace of God that bringeth salvation hath appeared to all men, teaching us that, denying ungodliness and worldly lusts, we should live soberly, righteously, and godly, in this present world; looking for that blessed hope, and the glorious appearing of the great God and our Saviour Jesus Christ; who gave himself for us, that he might redeem us from all iniquity, and purify unto himself a peculiar people, zealous of good works. These things speak, and exhort, and rebuke with all authority. Let no man despise thee.”
Titus 2:11-15
“For there are certain men crept in unawares, who were before of old ordained to this condemnation, ungodly men, turning the grace of our God into lasciviousness, and denying the only Lord God, and our Lord Jesus Christ.
And Enoch also, the seventh from Adam, prophesied of these, saying, Behold, the Lord cometh with ten thousands of his saints, to execute judgment upon all, and to convince all that are ungodly among them of all their ungodly deeds which they have ungodly committed, and of all their hard speeches which ungodly sinners have spoken against him.”
Jude 1:4, 14-15
Titus 2:11-15
“For there are certain men crept in unawares, who were before of old ordained to this condemnation, ungodly men, turning the grace of our God into lasciviousness, and denying the only Lord God, and our Lord Jesus Christ.
And Enoch also, the seventh from Adam, prophesied of these, saying, Behold, the Lord cometh with ten thousands of his saints, to execute judgment upon all, and to convince all that are ungodly among them of all their ungodly deeds which they have ungodly committed, and of all their hard speeches which ungodly sinners have spoken against him.”
Jude 1:4, 14-15
a figment of your imagination ... let it go.
in agreement.
Ephesians 2:2-3 Wherein [trespasses and sins] in time past ye walked according to the course of this world, according to the prince of the power of the air, the spirit that now worketh in the children of disobedience: Among whom also we all had our conversation in times past in the lusts of our flesh, fulfilling the desires of the flesh and of the mind; and were by nature the children of wrath, even as others.
your statement "God Justified the ungodly elect" is where you pull the old switcheroo.
you claim "God Justified" as in past tense and point to Romans 4:5 as support for your claim.
However, the verbs in Romans 4:5 are in the present tense:
Romans 4:5 But to him that worketh [verb, present tense] not, but believeth [verb, present tense] on him that justifieth [verb, present tense] the ungodly, his faith is counted [verb, present tense] for righteousness.
The person not working - present tense
The person believing - present tense
God that justifies - present tense
God counts - present tense
Romans 4:5 reveals that faith is not works ... contrary to what some believe/teach.
Romans 4:5 reveals that God imputes righteousness at the same time the person believes in Him.
At that point, the person is justified ... present tense.
Quit aligning Scripture to your erroneous dogma. Align your dogma to Scripture and where your dogma is in error, let go of the error.
READ YOUR BIBLE!!!
in agreement.
Ephesians 2:2-3 Wherein [trespasses and sins] in time past ye walked according to the course of this world, according to the prince of the power of the air, the spirit that now worketh in the children of disobedience: Among whom also we all had our conversation in times past in the lusts of our flesh, fulfilling the desires of the flesh and of the mind; and were by nature the children of wrath, even as others.
your statement "God Justified the ungodly elect" is where you pull the old switcheroo.
you claim "God Justified" as in past tense and point to Romans 4:5 as support for your claim.
However, the verbs in Romans 4:5 are in the present tense:
Romans 4:5 But to him that worketh [verb, present tense] not, but believeth [verb, present tense] on him that justifieth [verb, present tense] the ungodly, his faith is counted [verb, present tense] for righteousness.
The person not working - present tense
The person believing - present tense
God that justifies - present tense
God counts - present tense
Romans 4:5 reveals that faith is not works ... contrary to what some believe/teach.
Romans 4:5 reveals that God imputes righteousness at the same time the person believes in Him.
At that point, the person is justified ... present tense.
Quit aligning Scripture to your erroneous dogma. Align your dogma to Scripture and where your dogma is in error, let go of the error.
READ YOUR BIBLE!!!
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