Who Justifieth the Ungodly

[reneweddaybyday]

what God's Word says:

Romans 10:9-11 That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved. For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation. For the scripture saith, Whosoever believeth on him shall not be ashamed.​

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John 5:10-14 The Jews therefore said unto him that was cured, It is the sabbath day: it is not lawful for thee to carry thy bed. He answered them, He that made me whole, the same said unto me, Take up thy bed, and walk. Then asked they him, What man is that which said unto thee, Take up thy bed, and walk? And he that was healed wist not who it was: for Jesus had conveyed himself away, a multitude being in that place. Afterward Jesus findeth him in the temple, and said unto him, Behold, thou art made whole: sin no more, lest a worse thing come unto thee.​

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John 8:10-11 When Jesus had lifted up himself, and saw none but the woman, he said unto her, Woman, where are those thine accusers? hath no man condemned thee? She said, No man, Lord. And Jesus said unto her, Neither do I condemn thee: go, and sin no more.​

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Romans 6:12 Let not sin therefore reign in your mortal body, that ye should obey it in the lusts thereof.​

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READ YOUR BIBLE!!!
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[brightfame52]

you deny Scripture ...

the "gospel of brightfame52" ...

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... and then you double down ...

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what Scripture tells us:

Romans 4:3 For what saith the scripture? Abraham believed God, and it was counted unto him for righteousness.​

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God imputed righteousness to Abraham when Abraham believed ...​

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Romans 10:9-11 That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved. For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation. For the scripture saith, Whosoever believeth on him shall not be ashamed.​

The word "confess" is translated from the Greek word homologeó which means to say the same thing. When a person hears the Word of God, he or she can then "confess" (say the same thing as what God's Word says) and believe in his or her heart. However, the believer must say the same thing as God's Word in order for the hearer to "confess". What you preach, brightfame52, is not what is written in Scripture.​

John 5:10-14 The Jews therefore said unto him that was cured, It is the sabbath day: it is not lawful for thee to carry thy bed. He answered them, He that made me whole, the same said unto me, Take up thy bed, and walk. Then asked they him, What man is that which said unto thee, Take up thy bed, and walk? And he that was healed wist not who it was: for Jesus had conveyed himself away, a multitude being in that place. Afterward Jesus findeth him in the temple, and said unto him, Behold, thou art made whole: sin no more, lest a worse thing come unto thee.​

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John 8:10-11 When Jesus had lifted up himself, and saw none but the woman, he said unto her, Woman, where are those thine accusers? hath no man condemned thee? She said, No man, Lord. And Jesus said unto her, Neither do I condemn thee: go, and sin no more.​

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Romans 6:12 Let not sin therefore reign in your mortal body, that ye should obey it in the lusts thereof.​

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God's Word ... go and sin no more ... let not sin reign in your mortal body. ​

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brightfame52 ... "continue being ungodly sinners" ... "be a ungodly sinner" ... ​

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brightfame52 preaches another gospel ... ​

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I marvel that ye are so soon removed from him that called you into the grace of Christ unto another gospel: Which is not another; but there be some that trouble you, and would pervert the gospel of Christ. But though we, or an angel from heaven, preach any other gospel unto you than that which we have preached unto you, let him be accursed - Galatians 1:6-8​

READ YOUR BIBLE!!!
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Whenever a person denies that Christs death alone Justified a person before God, because of His Blood , they deny the Gospel, they discredit the Saving Worth of the Blood of Christ, which you do

 

[brightfame52]

I showed you that God never said "God Loved Jacob and hated esau before they had any being or existence".

here is what God said:

Romans 9:10-13 And not only this; but when Rebecca also had conceived by one, even by our father Isaac; (For the children being not yet born, neither having done any good or evil, that the purpose of God according to election might stand, not of works, but of him that calleth; ) It was said unto her [Rebecca], The elder shall serve the younger.

What God told Rebecca while Jacob and Esau were still in utero (which means they had "being" and "existence") is written in Genesis 25:

Genesis 25:22-23 And the children struggled together within her; and she said, If it be so, why am I thus? And she went to enquire of the LORD. And the LORD said unto her, Two nations are in thy womb, and two manner of people shall be separated from thy bowels; and the one people shall be stronger than the other people; and the elder shall serve the younger.

God did not state that He hated Esau "before they had any being or existence". That statement was written in Malachi 1 ... long after Esau was dead and buried:

Malachi 1:2-3 I have loved you, saith the LORD. Yet ye say, Wherein hast thou loved us? Was not Esau Jacob's brother? saith the LORD: yet I loved Jacob, And I hated Esau, and laid his mountains and his heritage waste for the dragons of the wilderness.

When will you acknowledge what the Author of Scripture has written ??? ... and stop making up scenarios of your own vain imagining in your futile attempt to align Scripture with your erroneous dogma ???


you reject God's Word ... just like Romans 1 warns us ...

Romans 1:18 For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men, who hold [Greek katechó] the truth in unrighteousness

The words "who hold" are translated from he Greek word katecho which means to suppress, to restrain. You suppress/restrain the truth in unrighteousness when you continue to claim that God "hated Esau before [he] had any being or existence" because what God told Rebecca when Jacob and Esau were in utero (so clearly they had "being" and "existence") was the elder shall serve the younger. God did not state that He hated Esau at that point in time.
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God either Loved or hated a person before they were born. His Love or Hate for people isn't conditioned upon anything He first foresaw in them, to merit either sentiment.

 

[brightfame52]

well, well, well ... look what your good best friend Gill wrote:

his faith is counted for righteousness; not the act, but the object of it; which was Abraham's case, and therefore was not justified by works.​

https://biblehub.com/commentaries/romans/4-5.htm​

which is what I have been telling you for months ...

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since you won't believe me ... maybe you'll believe your buddy, John Gill ...
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So now you've been shown that scripture teaches that people are Justified before God while ungodly, without faith, without repentance, just plain ole ungodly. Rom 4:5

 

[Cameron143]

Whenever a person denies that Christs death alone Justified a person before God, because of His Blood , they deny the Gospel, they discredit the Saving Worth of the Blood of Christ, which you do

What place does His perfect life play?

 

[brightfame52]

What place does His perfect life play?

It proves He was the Perfect Sacrifice without Spot or Blemish.

 

[Cameron143]

It proves He was the Perfect Sacrifice without Spot or Blemish.

Nothing to do with righteousness?

 

[reneweddaybyday]

Whenever a person

claims as his or her gospel ...

No, those He died for do not have to believe it, accept itor do anything but continue being ungodly sinners

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to be Justified before God one doesnt have to do anything but be a ungodly sinner

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he or she is preaching "another gospel" ...

Galatians 1:6-9 I marvel that ye are so soon removed from him that called you into the grace of Christ unto another gospel: Which is not another; but there be some that trouble you, and would pervert the gospel of Christ. But though we, or an angel from heaven, preach any other gospel unto you than that which we have preached unto you, let him be accursed. As we said before, so say I now again, If any man preach any other gospel unto you than that ye have received, let him be accursed.

Ephesians 4:14 That we henceforth be no more children, tossed to and fro, and carried about with every wind of doctrine, by the sleight of men, and cunning craftiness, whereby they lie in wait to deceive
.

 

[reneweddaybyday]

God either Loved or hated a person before they were born.

... rather than just accept the fact that your statement:

God Loved Jacob and hated esau before they had any being or existence

​

was in error, you just keep digging a hole in which your erroneous dogma needs to be buried ...

God never stated he "hated Esau before [he] had any being or existence" as you claimed in your Post 3565. You know it. I know it. Everyone who reads through this thread knows it:

Romans 9:10-13 10 And not only this; but when Rebecca also had conceived by one, even by our father Isaac; (For the children being not yet born, neither having done any good or evil, that the purpose of God according to election might stand, not of works, but of him that calleth; ) It was said unto her [Rebecca], The elder shall serve the younger.

What God told Rebecca while Jacob and Esau were still in utero (which means they had "being" and "existence") is written in Genesis 25:

Genesis 25:22-23 And the children struggled together within her; and she said, If it be so, why am I thus? And she went to enquire of the LORD. And the LORD said unto her, Two nations are in thy womb, and two manner of people shall be separated from thy bowels; and the one people shall be stronger than the other people; and the elder shall serve the younger.

God did not state that He hated Esau "before they had any being or existence". That statement was written in Malachi 1 ... long after Esau was dead and buried:

Malachi 1:2-3 I have loved you, saith the LORD. Yet ye say, Wherein hast thou loved us? Was not Esau Jacob's brother? saith the LORD: yet I loved Jacob, And I hated Esau, and laid his mountains and his heritage waste for the dragons of the wilderness.


Here is what God says concerning the wicked:

Ezekiel 33:11 Say unto them, As I live, saith the Lord GOD, I have no pleasure in the death of the wicked; but that the wicked turn from his way and live: turn ye, turn ye from your evil ways ...
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[reneweddaybyday]

Rom 4:5

Romans 4:5 teaches us that faith is not works ... just like your best good friend, John Gill tells you

his faith is counted for righteousness; not the act, but the object of it; which was Abraham's case, and therefore was not justified by works.​

https://biblehub.com/commentaries/romans/4-5.htm​

which is what I have been telling you for months ...

reneweddaybyday said: Romans 4 tells us faith ≠ works:​

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Romans 4:​

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3 For what saith the scripture? Abraham believed God, and it was counted unto him for righteousness. ​

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4 Now to him that worketh is the reward not reckoned of grace, but of debt.​

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5 But to him that worketh not, but believeth on him that justifieth the ungodly, his faith is counted for righteousness.​

(Post 2195)​

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reneweddaybyday said: you just continue to reject the truth that faith ≠ works.​

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Romans 4:5 But to him that worketh not, but believeth on him that justifieth the ungodly, his faith is counted for righteousness.​

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Clearly faith is not works.​

(Post 2260)​

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reneweddaybyday said: Salvation is wholly by grace through faith.​

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Ephesians 2:8-9 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God: Not of works, lest any man should boast.​

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vs 8 by grace through faith​

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vs 9 faith ≠ works (see also Romans 4:1-5 for Scripture which tells us faith ≠ works).​

(Post 2337)​

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reneweddaybyday said: Scripture clearly states that faith ≠ works:​

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Romans 4:​

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2 For if Abraham were justified by works, he hath whereof to glory; but not before God.​

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3 For what saith the scripture? Abraham believed God, and it was counted unto him for righteousness.​

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4 Now to him that worketh is the reward not reckoned of grace, but of debt.​

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5 But to him that worketh not, but believeth on him that justifieth the ungodly, his faith is counted for righteousness.​

(Post 2458)​

so your buddy, John Gill, agrees with me:

1) that it is not faith that saves, but it is the OBJECT of faith Who saves; and​

​

2) that faith is not works on the part of the believer​

Romans 4:

20 He [Abraham] staggered not at the promise of God through unbelief; but was strong in faith, giving glory to God;

21 And being fully persuaded that, what he [God] had promised, he [God] was able also to perform.

22 And therefore it was imputed to him for righteousness.

23 Now it was not written for his sake alone, that it was imputed to him;

24 But for us also, to whom it [righteousness] shall be imputed, if we believe on him that raised up Jesus our Lord from the dead;

25 Who was delivered for our offences, and was raised again for our justification.

5:1 Therefore being justified by faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ
.

 

[brightfame52]

claims as his or her gospel ...

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he or she is preaching "another gospel" ...

Galatians 1:6-9 I marvel that ye are so soon removed from him that called you into the grace of Christ unto another gospel: Which is not another; but there be some that trouble you, and would pervert the gospel of Christ. But though we, or an angel from heaven, preach any other gospel unto you than that which we have preached unto you, let him be accursed. As we said before, so say I now again, If any man preach any other gospel unto you than that ye have received, let him be accursed.

Ephesians 4:14 That we henceforth be no more children, tossed to and fro, and carried about with every wind of doctrine, by the sleight of men, and cunning craftiness, whereby they lie in wait to deceive
.

The people Christ died for are Justified before God before they do anything, while they are ungodly enemies, just like they are reconciled to God while being enemies, solely by His death. Thats Gospel

 

[brightfame52]

... rather than just accept the fact that your statement:

​

was in error, you just keep digging a hole in which your erroneous dogma needs to be buried ...

God never stated he "hated Esau before [he] had any being or existence" as you claimed in your Post 3565. You know it. I know it. Everyone who reads through this thread knows it:

Romans 9:10-13 10 And not only this; but when Rebecca also had conceived by one, even by our father Isaac; (For the children being not yet born, neither having done any good or evil, that the purpose of God according to election might stand, not of works, but of him that calleth; ) It was said unto her [Rebecca], The elder shall serve the younger.

What God told Rebecca while Jacob and Esau were still in utero (which means they had "being" and "existence") is written in Genesis 25:

Genesis 25:22-23 And the children struggled together within her; and she said, If it be so, why am I thus? And she went to enquire of the LORD. And the LORD said unto her, Two nations are in thy womb, and two manner of people shall be separated from thy bowels; and the one people shall be stronger than the other people; and the elder shall serve the younger.

God did not state that He hated Esau "before they had any being or existence". That statement was written in Malachi 1 ... long after Esau was dead and buried:

Malachi 1:2-3 I have loved you, saith the LORD. Yet ye say, Wherein hast thou loved us? Was not Esau Jacob's brother? saith the LORD: yet I loved Jacob, And I hated Esau, and laid his mountains and his heritage waste for the dragons of the wilderness.


Here is what God says concerning the wicked:

Ezekiel 33:11 Say unto them, As I live, saith the Lord GOD, I have no pleasure in the death of the wicked; but that the wicked turn from his way and live: turn ye, turn ye from your evil ways ...
.

God either Loved or hated a person before they were born.

 

[brightfame52]

Romans 4:5 teaches us that faith is not works ... just like your best good friend, John Gill tells you

his faith is counted for righteousness; not the act, but the object of it; which was Abraham's case, and therefore was not justified by works.​

https://biblehub.com/commentaries/romans/4-5.htm​

which is what I have been telling you for months ...

reneweddaybyday said: Romans 4 tells us faith ≠ works:​

​

Romans 4:​

​

3 For what saith the scripture? Abraham believed God, and it was counted unto him for righteousness. ​

​

4 Now to him that worketh is the reward not reckoned of grace, but of debt.​

​

5 But to him that worketh not, but believeth on him that justifieth the ungodly, his faith is counted for righteousness.​

(Post 2195)​

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reneweddaybyday said: you just continue to reject the truth that faith ≠ works.​

​

Romans 4:5 But to him that worketh not, but believeth on him that justifieth the ungodly, his faith is counted for righteousness.​

​

Clearly faith is not works.​

(Post 2260)​

​

​

​

reneweddaybyday said: Salvation is wholly by grace through faith.​

​

Ephesians 2:8-9 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God: Not of works, lest any man should boast.​

​

vs 8 by grace through faith​

​

vs 9 faith ≠ works (see also Romans 4:1-5 for Scripture which tells us faith ≠ works).​

(Post 2337)​

​

​

​

reneweddaybyday said: Scripture clearly states that faith ≠ works:​

​

Romans 4:​

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2 For if Abraham were justified by works, he hath whereof to glory; but not before God.​

​

3 For what saith the scripture? Abraham believed God, and it was counted unto him for righteousness.​

​

4 Now to him that worketh is the reward not reckoned of grace, but of debt.​

​

5 But to him that worketh not, but believeth on him that justifieth the ungodly, his faith is counted for righteousness.​

(Post 2458)​

so your buddy, John Gill, agrees with me:

1) that it is not faith that saves, but it is the OBJECT of faith Who saves; and​

​

2) that faith is not works on the part of the believer​

Romans 4:

20 He [Abraham] staggered not at the promise of God through unbelief; but was strong in faith, giving glory to God;

21 And being fully persuaded that, what he [God] had promised, he [God] was able also to perform.

22 And therefore it was imputed to him for righteousness.

23 Now it was not written for his sake alone, that it was imputed to him;

24 But for us also, to whom it [righteousness] shall be imputed, if we believe on him that raised up Jesus our Lord from the dead;

25 Who was delivered for our offences, and was raised again for our justification.

5:1 Therefore being justified by faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ
.

Those for whom Christ died, they are Justified before Him while ungodly. Rom 4:5

5 But to him that worketh not, but believeth on him that justifieth the ungodly, his faith is counted for righteousness.


John Gill writes:

but believeth on him that justifieth the ungodly: or that ungodly one: particular reference is had to Abraham, who in his state of unregeneracy was an ungodly person; as all God's elect are in a state of nature, and are such when God justifies them, being without a righteousness of their own; wherefore he imputes the righteousness of another, even that of his own Son, unto them: and though he justifies the ungodly, he does not justify their ungodliness, but them from it; nor will he, nor does he leave them to live and die in it; now to him that worketh not, that is perfect righteousness; or has no opportunity of working at all; or what he does, he does not do, that he might be justified by it; but exercises faith on God as justifying persons, who, like himself, are sinners, ungodly and destitute of a righteousness:

his faith is counted for righteousness; not the act, but the object of it; which was Abraham's case, and therefore was not justified by works. The Vulgate Latin version here adds, "according to the purpose of the grace of God"

 

[brightfame52]

Justified solely by His Death!2

Another proof from scripture that says that the Elect of God, those Christ died for are Justified before God while they are enemies and unbelievers, even before they believe, is the public discharge God gave Christ at His resurrection from the dead. Setting Christ free from death was judicially setting the Elect He died for free from death, the death owed for the wages of their sins as per Rom 6:23!

Hence it is written that Christ as Surety was delivered for [because of] our offences and was raised again for [because of] our Justification. Rom 4:25

The resurrection of Christ is Gods own public declaration that every sinner Christ died for is Justified, discharged from their sins and eternal death they deserved.

Justified solely by His Death!

This is a Gospel truth that false religionists can not receive. That those Christ died for, namely the Elect of God, that before they are born sinners and unbelievers and enemies, that solely on the merits of Christ blood shed for them, they are Justified before God, declared Righteous. They have received the sentence of absolution and forgiveness, and God will not charge their sins against them 2 Cor 5:19.

That is because God in Justice has already charged or transacted all their sins and iniquities upon their Surety Jesus Christ, Isa 53:6; 2Cor 5:21;1Pet 3:24.

This being so, God purposed not to charge their sins on them, hence Justifying them from all their sins. This transacted before they are born sinners and enemies.

18

 

[reneweddaybyday]

The people Christ died for

John 1:29 The next day John seeth Jesus coming unto him, and saith, Behold the Lamb of God, which taketh away the sin of the world.

John 3:16-17 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life. For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved.

2 Corinthians 5:19 To wit, that God was in Christ, reconciling the world unto himself, not imputing their trespasses unto them; and hath committed unto us the word of reconciliation.

1 John 2:2 And he is the propitiation for our sins: and not for ours only, but also for the sins of the whole world.

Justified before God before they do anything, while they are ungodly enemies, just like they are reconciled to God while being enemies

Reconciliation on the part of God to mankind took place before the foundation of the world.

Reconciliation on the part of man to God takes place at the time a person turns to God in faith ... at that point we are no longer enemies.

Those who reject God even as He reaches out to them remain enemies and are not reconciled to God ... not because God has not made provision for them, but because they reject that which God has provided for them to be reconciled to God.
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[reneweddaybyday]

God either Loved or hated a person before they were born.

1 John 4:8 He that loveth not knoweth not God; for God is love.

1 John 4:16 And we have known and believed the love that God hath to us. God is love; and he that dwelleth in love dwelleth in God, and God in him.

inasmuch as Scripture tells us God is love (1 John 4:6; 1 John 4:18) it is wholly apparent that God loves "a person before they were born".


What Scripture do you rely on to support your claim that God "hated a person before they were born"???
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[reneweddaybyday]

John Gill writes

but believeth on him that justifieth the ungodly: or that ungodly one: particular reference is had to Abraham, who in his state of unregeneracy was an ungodly person; as all God's elect are in a state of nature, and are such when God justifies them, being without a righteousness of their own; wherefore he imputes the righteousness of another, even that of his own Son, unto them: and though he justifies the ungodly, he does not justify their ungodliness, but them from it; nor will he, nor does he leave them to live and die in it; now to him that worketh not, that is perfect righteousness; or has no opportunity of working at all; or what he does, he does not do, that he might be justified by it; but exercises faith on God as justifying persons, who, like himself, are sinners, ungodly and destitute of a righteousness:​

​

his faith is counted for righteousness; not the act, but the object of it; which was Abraham's case, and therefore was not justified by works. The Vulgate Latin version here adds, "according to the purpose of the grace of God​

John Gill states what I have told you for months ...

1) that it is not faith that saves, but it is the OBJECT of faith Who saves; and

2) that faith is not works on the part of the believer


Romans 4:5 But to him that worketh not, but believeth on him that justifieth the ungodly, his faith is counted for righteousness.

Faith ≠ works.
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[Cameron143]

1 John 4:8 He that loveth not knoweth not God; for God is love.

1 John 4:16 And we have known and believed the love that God hath to us. God is love; and he that dwelleth in love dwelleth in God, and God in him.

inasmuch as Scripture tells us God is love (1 John 4:6; 1 John 4:18) it is wholly apparent that God loves "a person before they were born".


What Scripture do you rely on to support your claim that God "hated a person before they were born"???
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You forgot...

READ YOUR BIBLE!!!!!

 

[reneweddaybyday]

Gods own public declaration that every sinner Christ died for is Justified

John 1:29 The next day John seeth Jesus coming unto him, and saith, Behold the Lamb of God, which taketh away the sin of the world.

John 3:16-17 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life. For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved.

2 Corinthians 5:19 To wit, that God was in Christ, reconciling the world unto himself, not imputing their trespasses unto them; and hath committed unto us the word of reconciliation.

1 John 2:2 And he is the propitiation for our sins: and not for ours only, but also for the sins of the whole world.
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[reneweddaybyday]

2 Cor 5:19.

2 Corinthians 5:19 To wit, that God was in Christ, reconciling the world unto himself, not imputing their trespasses unto them; and hath committed unto us the word of reconciliation.

The word "reconciling" is translated from the Greek word katallássō which means decisively change, as when two parties reconcile when coming ("changing") to the same position.

Reconciliation on the part of God to mankind took place before the foundation of the world.

Reconciliation on the part of man to God takes place at the time a person turns to God in faith ... at that point we are no longer enemies.

Those who reject God even as He reaches out to them remain enemies and are not reconciled to God ... not because God has not made provision for them, but because they reject that which God has provided for them to be reconciled to God.

Isa 53:6

Isaiah 53:6 All we like sheep have gone astray; we have turned every one to his own way; and the LORD hath laid on him the iniquity of us all.

God having laid on Him [the Lord Jesus Christ] the iniquity of all mankind is absolutely true. Because God laid on Him [the Lord Jesus Christ] the iniquity of all mankind, we know that the "sin" issue has already been provided for ... so sin is not the issue. The issue is the reconciliation which takes place when a person does not turn to his own way (i.e. suppress the truth in unrighteousness) when God reaches out to him or her.

2Cor 5:21

2 Corinthians 5:21 For he hath made him to be sin for us, who knew no sin; that we might be made the righteousness of God in him.

The Lord Jesus Christ is the sin offering which is acceptable to God. When a person is reconciled to God as shown in 2 Cor 5:19, God imputes righteousness to him or her.

Our sins were on Jesus, and His righteousness is on us. And, "As Christ was not made sin by any sin inherent in him, so neither are we made righteous by any righteousness inherent in us, but by the righteousness of Christ imputed to us." (Matthew Poole's Commentary)​

1Pet 3:24

there is no 1 Peter 3:24
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