Who Justifieth the Ungodly

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brightfame52

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Christ resurrection declares Justification !

The Lord Jesus Christ in His Resurrection from the dead declares those He died for Justified before they themselves believe. Rom 4:25

25 Who was delivered for our offences, and was raised again for our justification.

25 Who was betrayed and put to death because of our misdeeds and was raised to secure our justification (our acquittal), [making our account balance and absolving us from all guilt before God].AMP

25 Jesus was ·given to die [handed/delivered over; 8:32] ·for [because of] our ·sins [violations; transgressions], and he was raised from the dead ·to make us right with God [for our justification; or to confirm our justification].EXB

Now the Lord Jesus Christ as the Head of His Church which is comprised of both OT and NT Believers, the Seed of Abraham Gal 3:29, He was made to be sin for them, or was delivered for their offences, and punished for them to complete satisfaction of Divine Justice, then as He arose from the dead, it [The Resurrection] declared them Justified and it is finished and accomplished for them. He Himself was Justified from all sin [That had been laid upon Him] and so they as His Body, He as their Head, were also Justified in Him Isa 45:25

25 In the Lord shall all the seed of Israel be justified, and shall glory.


But with the Lord’s help, the ·people [descendants; offspring; seed] of Israel
will be ·found to be good [justified; vindicated; or victorious],
and they will ·praise [boast/glory in] him.EXB

Isa 45:25

In the Lord shall all the seed of Israel be justified,.... All the spiritual Israel of God, whether Jews or Gentiles; all the spiritual seed and offspring of Christ, to whom he stands in the relation of the, everlasting Father and federal Head; these being given to him, and being in him, are justified in him from all things; and these, all and everyone, shall be brought to see their need of his righteousness, and look to him for it, and receive it from him by faith; and be manifestatively justified in their own consciences, as they will be openly at the bar of God, before angels and men, hereafter. The Targum is,

""in" or by the Word of the Lord all the seed of Israel shall be justified:'

and shall glory; in Christ, as the Lord their righteousness; not in themselves, in their own righteousness, holiness, wisdom, and strength, but in this, that Christ is made to them wisdom, righteousness, sanctification, and redemption, 1 Corinthians 1:30.
John Gill​
 

brightfame52

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Nope.

1 John 2:2 is extraordinarily clear that Christ died not only for our sins but Al's the whole world. The elect are never called the world, and John specifically says the world is distinct from the elect.
Oh yes it does. God not only Justified jews through Christ, but gentiles also.
 

brightfame52

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You are confusing foreknowledge and predestination with justification.
No Im not, you just not paying attention, and obviously you dont know what actually justifies a person before God.
 

brightfame52

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not according to Scripture:

Romans 4:

22 And therefore it [Abraham's faith] was imputed to him for righteousness.

23 Now it was not written for his sake alone, that it [righteousness] was imputed to him [Abraham]

24 But for us also, to whom it [righteousness] shall be imputed, if we believe on him that raised up Jesus our Lord from the dead;

25 Who was delivered for our offences, and was raised again for our justification.

5:1 Therefore being justified by faith ...
Yes according to scripture, thats what I have been showing in this thread.
 

brightfame52

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nope ... your dogma does not align with what is written in Scripture ...

Romans 4:

20 He [Abraham] staggered not at the promise of God through unbelief; but was strong in faith, giving glory to God;

21 And being fully persuaded that, what he [God] had promised, he [God] was able also to perform.

22 And therefore it [Abraham's faith] was imputed to him for righteousness.

23 Now it was not written for his sake alone, that it [righteousness] was imputed to him;

24 But for us also, to whom it [righteousness] shall be imputed, if we believe on him that raised up Jesus our Lord from the dead;

25 Who was delivered for our offences, and was raised again for our justification.

5:1 Therefore being justified by faith
Those whom Christ died for, His death purged away their sins before He sat down at the right hand of the majesty on High. Heb 1:3

3 Who being the brightness of his glory, and the express image of his person, and upholding all things by the word of his power, when he had by himself purged our sins, sat down on the right hand of the Majesty on high:

You deny this you deny the Gospel, the finished work of Christ !
 

brightfame52

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why do you continue to presume that faith somehow negates God's grace?

Romans 4:

1 What shall we say then that Abraham our father, as pertaining to the flesh, hath found?

2 For if Abraham were justified by works, he hath whereof to glory; but not before God.

3 For what saith the scripture? Abraham believed God, and it [Abraham's faith] was counted unto him for righteousness.

4 Now to him that worketh is the reward not reckoned of grace, but of debt.

5 But to him that worketh not, but believeth on him that justifieth the ungodly, his faith is counted for righteousness.


These verses clearly show that believing/faith is not works.

It is error on your part when you continue to infer that God imputing righteousness through faith is somehow outside the bounds of God's grace.




[quote=brightfame52]You need to pay attention to what scripture is saying in the context in which its found.
excuse me??? ... I'm not the one lifting verses from the context.

You lifted Romans 3:24 from the context within which God placed the verse ... the Author of Scripture is quite succinct in telling the reader of Scripture that:


Romans 3:

24 Being justified freely by his grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus:

25 Whom God hath set forth to be a propitiation through faith in his blood, to declare his righteousness for the remission of sins that are past, through the forbearance of God;

26 To declare, I say, at this time his righteousness: that he might be just, and the justifier of him which believeth in Jesus.

...

28 Therefore we conclude that a man is justified by faith without the deeds of the law. .

..

30 Seeing it is one God, which shall justify the circumcision by faith, and uncircumcision through faith


I have already shown you that according to Romans 4:1-5, faith is not works ... just believe what is written in Scripture. God will then work in your heart to give you understanding as to how/why faith is not works and faith is not outside the bounds of God's grace. :cool:


[/QUOTE]
Justification is freely by Gods Grace through Christs death Rom 3:24

24 Being justified freely by his grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus:
 

OIC1965

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A person is Justified before God before they are called. Christ died for an individual before they are called. If Christ died for a person in 33 ad, and took away their sins, and they arent born a sinner until 1952, and God didnt call them until 1990, weren't they Justified by His death for them before they were called unto a knowledge of it ? Yes or no
No. Jesus was the propitiation (which satisfies the justice of God and that which removes what is standing in the way) for our sins, but justification happens when we believe. RIGHTEOUSNESS is not imputed until we believe. (Romans 4:23-25)
 

OIC1965

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No Im not, you just not paying attention, and obviously you dont know what actually justifies a person before God.
If we were justified before we were born, how then were we "children of wrath" before we were saved? (Ephesians 2:3)

The primary cause which justifies a person before God is Christ's Work, but faith is the instrument that God uses to apply the benefits of Christ's work to those who believe. Christ's work is the EFFECTUAL or EFFICIENT CAUSE (Principle Cause) and faith is the Instrumental cause (or secondary). Just as when I dig a hole. I am the one who effectively digs, but the shovel is the instrument I use to dig. In the same manner, Christ's work effectually saves us, but faith is the instrument that God uses to apply the benefits of Christ's work. And since faith is a gift of God, we can say that salvation is all of God.

Romans 3:30-31- since indeed God who will justify the circumcised by faith and the uncircumcised through faith

Galatians 2:16- Nevertheless knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the Law but through faith in Christ Jesus, even we have believed in Christ Jesus, so that we may be justified by faith in Christ and not by the works of the Law; since by the works of the Law no flesh will be justified.

Romans 3:28- For we maintain that a man is justified by faith apart from works of the Law.

Philippians 3:9- and may be found in Him, not having a righteousness of my own derived from the Law, but that which is through faith in Christ, the righteousness which comes from God on the basis of faith,
 
Mar 23, 2016
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His Resurrection from the dead declares those He died for Justified before they themselves believe.
nope ... His resurrection from the dead declares that the Lord Jesus Christ is the Son of God with power:

Romans 1:

1 Paul, a servant of Jesus Christ, called to be an apostle, separated unto the gospel of God,

2 (Which he had promised afore by his prophets in the holy scriptures,)

3 Concerning his Son Jesus Christ our Lord, which was made of the seed of David according to the flesh;

4 And declared to be the Son of God with power, according to the spirit of holiness, by the resurrection from the dead




brightfame52 said:
the Lord Jesus Christ as the Head of His Church which is comprised of both OT and NT Believers
nope ... that's nothing but replacement theology bunk ...

the Church, the body of the Lord Jesus Christ was established on Day of Pentecost. OT believers looked forward to the promise of the coming of Messiah ... they obtained a good report (and note the faith factor :)) ... but never received the promise:

Hebrews 11:

37 They were stoned, they were sawn asunder, were tempted, were slain with the sword: they wandered about in sheepskins and goatskins; being destitute, afflicted, tormented;

38 (Of whom the world was not worthy) they wandered in deserts, and in mountains, and in dens and caves of the earth.

39 And these all, having obtained a good report through faith, received not the promise


your "replacement theology" bunk is contrary to what is written in Scripture. get rid of it.


READ YOUR BIBLE!!!



 
Mar 23, 2016
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Yes according to scripture, thats what I have been showing in this thread.
you say: The elect are Justified before God prior to them given faith to believe.


God's Word says:

Romans 4:

22 And therefore it [Abraham's faith] was imputed to him for righteousness.

23 Now it was not written for his sake alone, that it [righteousness] was imputed to him [Abraham]

24 But for us also, to whom it [righteousness] shall be imputed, if we believe on him that raised up Jesus our Lord from the dead;

25 Who was delivered for our offences, and was raised again for our justification.

5:1 Therefore being justified by faith ...



All you have shown in this thread is your complete and utter disregard for God's Word ... your rejection of Truth ... your rebellion ... and your stubbornness

1 Samuel 15:23 For rebellion is as the sin of witchcraft, and stubbornness is as iniquity and idolatry ...




 
Mar 23, 2016
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ummm @brightfame52 ... check out your Post #387 ... you've got yourself saying what I submitted in Post #379

if you have anything substantive to say to rebut what I submitted in Post #379, please submit your response in a new post.

If, however, all you have to say is your usual nonsense, don't bother responding to Post #379.

Maybe at the very least you could ask the Moderators to delete what you have submitted at Post #387???


 

brightfame52

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Nov 21, 2020
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No. Jesus was the propitiation (which satisfies the justice of God and that which removes what is standing in the way) for our sins, but justification happens when we believe. RIGHTEOUSNESS is not imputed until we believe. (Romans 4:23-25)
No ! Then you dont believe that Christs death alone Justified them He died for. Thats not good friend !
 

brightfame52

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Nov 21, 2020
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If we were justified before we were born, how then were we "children of wrath" before we were saved? (Ephesians 2:3)

The primary cause which justifies a person before God is Christ's Work, but faith is the instrument that God uses to apply the benefits of Christ's work to those who believe. Christ's work is the EFFECTUAL or EFFICIENT CAUSE (Principle Cause) and faith is the Instrumental cause (or secondary). Just as when I dig a hole. I am the one who effectively digs, but the shovel is the instrument I use to dig. In the same manner, Christ's work effectually saves us, but faith is the instrument that God uses to apply the benefits of Christ's work. And since faith is a gift of God, we can say that salvation is all of God.

Romans 3:30-31- since indeed God who will justify the circumcised by faith and the uncircumcised through faith

Galatians 2:16- Nevertheless knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the Law but through faith in Christ Jesus, even we have believed in Christ Jesus, so that we may be justified by faith in Christ and not by the works of the Law; since by the works of the Law no flesh will be justified.

Romans 3:28- For we maintain that a man is justified by faith apart from works of the Law.

Philippians 3:9- and may be found in Him, not having a righteousness of my own derived from the Law, but that which is through faith in Christ, the righteousness which comes from God on the basis of faith,
The elect were Justified before God before they were born by the death of Christ. They are still born sinners., and by nature children of wrath as others. That means as others, in and of themselves they were worthy of Gods wrath, yet they were still Justified before God.
 

brightfame52

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nope ... His resurrection from the dead declares that the Lord Jesus Christ is the Son of God with power:

Romans 1:

1 Paul, a servant of Jesus Christ, called to be an apostle, separated unto the gospel of God,

2 (Which he had promised afore by his prophets in the holy scriptures,)

3 Concerning his Son Jesus Christ our Lord, which was made of the seed of David according to the flesh;

4 And declared to be the Son of God with power, according to the spirit of holiness, by the resurrection from the dead





nope ... that's nothing but replacement theology bunk ...

the Church, the body of the Lord Jesus Christ was established on Day of Pentecost. OT believers looked forward to the promise of the coming of Messiah ... they obtained a good report (and note the faith factor :)) ... but never received the promise:

Hebrews 11:

37 They were stoned, they were sawn asunder, were tempted, were slain with the sword: they wandered about in sheepskins and goatskins; being destitute, afflicted, tormented;

38 (Of whom the world was not worthy) they wandered in deserts, and in mountains, and in dens and caves of the earth.

39 And these all, having obtained a good report through faith, received not the promise


your "replacement theology" bunk is contrary to what is written in Scripture. get rid of it.


READ YOUR BIBLE!!!
Yes, The resurrection of Christ is evidence that those He died for have been Justified from their sins . Rom 4:25

25 Who was delivered for our offences, and was raised again for our justification.


who was betrayed and crucified because of our sins, and was raised [from the dead] because of our justification [our acquittal—absolving us of all sin before God]. AMP

By His death He purged away the sins of them He died for, thats Justification Heb 1:3

3 Who being the brightness of his glory, and the express image of his person, and upholding all things by the word of his power, when he had by himself purged our sins, sat down on the right hand of the Majesty on high:

The Son is the radiance and only expression of the glory of [our awesome] God [reflecting God’s Shekinah glory, the Light-being, the brilliant light of the divine], and the exact representation and perfect imprint of His [Father’s] essence, and upholding and maintaining and propelling all things [the entire physical and spiritual universe] by His powerful word [carrying the universe along to its predetermined goal]. When He [Himself and no other] had [by offering Himself on the cross as a sacrifice for sin] accomplished purification from sins and established our freedom from guilt, He sat down [revealing His completed work] at the right hand of the Majesty on high [revealing His Divine authority],AMP
 

OIC1965

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The elect were Justified before God before they were born by the death of Christ. They are still born sinners., and by nature children of wrath as others. That means as others, in and of themselves they were worthy of Gods wrath, yet they were still Justified before God.
You’re still conflating justification and predestination. Just give me one verse where it specifically says that we were justified before we were born. Give me the clearest and best citation.
 
Mar 23, 2016
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The resurrection of Christ is evidence that those He died for have been Justified from their sins . Rom 4:25

25 Who was delivered for our offences, and was raised again for our justification.
again you rip a verse from its context in order to prop up your dogma ...

Romans 4:

22 And therefore it [Abraham's faith] was imputed to him for righteousness.

23 Now it was not written for his sake alone, that it [righteousness] was imputed to him [Abraham]

24 But for us also, to whom it [righteousness] shall be imputed, if we believe on him that raised up Jesus our Lord from the dead;

25 Who was delivered for our offences, and was raised again for our justification.

5:1 Therefore being justified by faith ...



Context = The context of an idea or event is the general situation that relates to it, and which helps it to be understood

(https://www.collinsdictionary.com/us/dictionary/english/context)

If a statement or remark is quoted out of context, the circumstances in which it was said are not correctly reported, so that it seems to mean something different from the meaning that was intended

(https://www.collinsdictionary.com/us/dictionary/english/out-of-context)


READ YOUR BIBLE!!!



 

brightfame52

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All for whom Christ died are Justified before God by His Death alone, because by His death for them, His blood shed for them,which is the same as His death for them, it makes them Holy, and if Holy, then Justified, and this is true because of this Truth Heb 13:12

Wherefore Jesus also, that he might sanctify the people with his own blood, suffered [died] without the gate.

This word sanctify means :

to render or acknowledge, or to be venerable or hallow

2) to separate from profane things and dedicate to God

a) consecrate things to God

b) dedicate people to God

3) to purify

a) to cleanse externally

b) to purify by expiation: free from the guilt of sin

c) to purify internally by renewing of the soul

Notice ALSO that His Death ensures their renewing of the soul, which is this Titus 3:5

5 Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to his mercy he saved us, by the washing of regeneration, and renewing of the Holy Ghost;

But the writer of Hebrews here in Heb 13:12 means:

"the expiation of the guilt of sin, which Christ has fully took away; complete pardon being procured, and a perfect righteousness brought in:"

All for whom He died are freed/Justified from sin by His Body Rom 6:7

7 For he that is dead [with Christ] is freed from sin.

This word freed means:

to render righteous or such he ought to be

2) to show, exhibit, evince, one to be righteous, such as he is and wishes himself to be considered

3) to declare, pronounce, one to be just, righteous, or such as he ought to be

All for whom Christ died is dead . In fact, in the greek it reads " having died"

That occurred [having died] when He died for all 2 Cor 5:14

14 For the love of Christ constraineth us; because we thus judge, that if one died for all, then were all dead:

The greek reads " then all died"

2 Cor 5:14

14 For the love of Christ controls us, because we have concluded this: that one has died for all, therefore all have died;

Its the same principle, as when adam died, all for whom He represented died, and so all for whom Christ represented, when He died, they died.

And this being the case, they are freed or Justified from sin. That is what His Resurrection declares of all for whom offences He died Rom 4:25

25 Who was delivered for our offences, and was raised again for our justification.

So Rom 4:25 here and Rom 6:7 teach the same thing, Justification before God from all sin by Christ's Death alone !

This also is the same as was prophesied to occur based upon His Covenant Death Lk 1:74-75

74 That he would grant unto us, that we being delivered out of the hand of our enemies might serve him without fear,

75 In holiness and righteousness before him, all the days of our life.

Also Heb 10:10 confirms that Christ's Death alone Sanctified forever, all those He was delivered in behalf of !

10 By the which will we are sanctified through the offering of the body of Jesus Christ once for all.

to render or acknowledge, or to be venerable or hallow

2) to separate from profane things and dedicate to God

a) consecrate things to God

b) dedicate people to God

3) to purify

a) to cleanse externally

b) to purify by expiation: free from the guilt of sin

c) to purify internally by renewing of the soul 7