Who Justifieth the Ungodly

[brightfame52]

You who say this do not know what is free-will, and how it is possible to be really good; that he who is good by his own choice is really good; but he who is made good by another under necessity is not really good, because he is not what he is by his own choice.


Abraham was justified right then and there. Christ only came after many many years. Abraham didn't wait for Christ, Abraham went to heaven before Christ.


What you mean, the Word says Abraham believed God, that is True Faith with works, not the faith of devils.

Genesis 26:5 Because that Abraham obeyed my voice, and kept my charge, my commandments, my statutes, and my laws.

I just explained it to you. Abraham and all believers, Abrahams seed, are made righteous by the one obedience of Christ Rom 5:19

19 For as by one man's disobedience many were made sinners, so by the obedience of one shall many be made righteous.

Abr5ahams will or obedience played no factor, it was the obedience of one. Do you know who that One is ?

 

[brightfame52]

John 1:29 The next day John seeth Jesus coming unto him, and saith, Behold the Lamb of God, which taketh away the sin of the world.


John 3:16-17 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life. For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved.


1 John 2:2 And he is the propitiation for our sins: and not for ours only, but also for the sins of the whole world.





nope ...

Romans 4:

24 But for us also, to whom it [righteousness] shall be imputed, if we believe on him that raised up Jesus our Lord from the dead;

25 Who was delivered for our offences, and was raised again for our justification.

5:1 Therefore being justified by faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ

vs 24 - righteousness is imputed when a person believes on him that raised up Jesus our Lord from the dead ... not before.

vs 1 - therefore being justified by faith ... the text does not read "therefore being justified before faith".
.

You down play the accomplishment of Christ Justifying death. Thats not what Faith does !

 

[brightfame52]

The Lord Jesus Christ came to take away the sin of all mankind, not just some subgroup (the "elect") you claim are the only ones for whom Christ came ...

John 1:29 The next day John seeth Jesus coming unto him, and saith, Behold the Lamb of God, which taketh away the sin of the world.


John 3:16-17 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life. For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved.


1 John 2:2 And he is the propitiation for our sins: and not for ours only, but also for the sins of the whole world.


The justified ones are the whosoevers (John 3:16) who believe.

Romans 5:1 Therefore, being justified by faith ...
.

Christ took away the sins of all the Justified, and He did that by His Death for them. Those whom He took away their sins, He gives them Faith to receive it, and believe it.

 

[DanielLL]

God wrote in Romans 4

You seem to equate God with Paul, and only quote his letters, since you are ignoring James completly.
Are you going to ignore Jesus too?

Matthew 7:21 Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.

Luke 10:25 And, behold, a certain lawyer stood up, and tempted him, saying, Master, what shall I do to inherit eternal life?
26 He said unto him, What is written in the law? how readest thou?
27 And he answering said, Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy strength, and with all thy mind; and thy neighbour as thyself.
28 And he said unto him, Thou hast answered right: this do, and thou shalt live.

Luke 13:3 I tell you, Nay: but, except ye repent, ye shall all likewise perish.

John 14:15 If ye love me, keep my commandments.

21 He that hath my commandments, and keepeth them, he it is that loveth me: and he that loveth me shall be loved of my Father, and I will love him, and will manifest myself to him.

23 Jesus answered and said unto him, If a man love me, he will keep my words: and my Father will love him, and we will come unto him, and make our abode with him.

John 15:10 If ye keep my commandments, ye shall abide in my love; even as I have kept my Father's commandments, and abide in his love.

14 Ye are my friends, if ye do whatsoever I command you.

You see, how a man can only be justified with works, and not with faith only?

 

[reneweddaybyday]

made righteous by the one obedience of Christ Rom 5:19

19 For as by one man's disobedience many were made sinners, so by the obedience of one shall many be made righteous.

In the Greek, the words "be made" are in the future tense ... not past tense.

Righteousness is imputed to mankind when a person believes:

Romans 4:

24 But for us also, to whom it [righteousness] shall be imputed, if we believe on him that raised up Jesus our Lord from the dead;

25 Who was delivered for our offences, and was raised again for our justification.

5:1 Therefore being justified by faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ

vs 24 - righteousness is imputed when a person believes on him that raised up Jesus our Lord from the dead ... not before.

vs 1 - therefore being justified by faith ... the text does not read "therefore being justified before faith".
.

 

[reneweddaybyday]

You down play the accomplishment of Christ Justifying death. Thats not what Faith does !

nope ... your limited atonement serves to "down play the accomplishment of Christ Justifying death" because you lack "Faith" to trust the sacrifice of the Lord Jesus Christ was sufficient for all the sins of all mankind (all mankind ... from Adam to present to all who will be born in the future).

John 1:29 The next day John seeth Jesus coming unto him, and saith, Behold the Lamb of God, which taketh away the sin of the world.

1 John 2:2 And he is the propitiation for our sins: and not for ours only, but also for the sins of the whole world.
.

 

[reneweddaybyday]

You seem to equate God with Paul, and only quote his letters

cough cough ... in the post to which you replied (Post #1020) I submitted Scripture from Genesis as well as Hebrews ... so clearly you are mistaken that I "only quote his [Paul] letters".

You see, how a man can only be justified with works

nope. mankind is justified through faith in the Lord Jesus Christ.

Have you read James 1:5-8?

James 1:

If any of you lack wisdom, let him ask of God, that giveth to all men liberally, and upbraideth not; and it shall be given him.

6 But let him ask in faith, nothing wavering. For he that wavereth is like a wave of the sea driven with the wind and tossed.

7 For let not that man think that he shall receive any thing of the Lord.

8 A double minded man is unstable in all his ways.



As far as James 2:20 ... when you read the verse within the context, James refers to folks who claim to have faith:

James 2:14 What doth it profit, my brethren, though a man say he hath faith, and have not works? can faith save him?

lots of folks claim to "have faith" ... shrug ... can that faith save him or her? God tells us specifically in Whom we are to have faith in order to be justified ...

Additionally, as far as James 2:20, the Lord Jesus Christ tells us by their fruits ye shall know them (Matt 7:20).

So when a person claims to "have faith" and yet the "fruit" exhibited in their life is the works of the flesh as opposed to the fruit of the spirit that person may or may not be born again. It could be they truly are born again, but they are very young/immature in their walk with the Lord.
.

 

[DanielLL]

mankind is justified through faith in the Lord Jesus Christ.

Yes you are justified by faith, True Faith that is, with all the works Jesus told us, like: repent, keep His commandments, do the will of the Father. If you don't do these works you don't have faith, because faith without works is dead, and dead faith doesn't justify anyone.

 

[reneweddaybyday]

Romans 10:9-10 That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved. For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation.
.

 

[DanielLL]

Yes, if you believe truly, that is True Faith with works like: keeping His commandments, you will be saved.

 

[brightfame52]

Remission of sins is Justification !

Remission of sins is an aspect of Justification, and can even be called Justification, as it pertains to being justified from all the legal consequences of our sins, for this is what Paul means by it here Acts 13:39

And by him all that believe are justified from all things, from which ye could not be justified by the law of Moses.

Some Translations have the right Ideal here:

39 And that through Him everyone who believes [who acknowledges Jesus as his Savior and devotes himself to Him] is absolved (cleared and freed) from every charge from which he could not be justified and freed by the Law of Moses and given right standing with God.AMP

and in Him every believer is absolved from all offences, from which you could not be absolved under the Law of Moses.WNT

To absolve means:

to free from guilt or blame or their consequences: The court absolved her of guilt in his death.
2.
to set free or release, as from some duty, obligation, or responsibility (usually followed by from ): to be absolved from one's oath.
3.
to grant pardon for.
4.
Ecclesiastical .
a.
to grant or pronounce remission of sins to.
b.
to remit (a sin) by absolution.
c.
to declare (censure, as excommunication) removed.

Being Justified from all things as Per Acts 13:39 means being Justified from all the consequences of ones sins, and it means things the law of Moses in it's Leviticus priesthood with its animal sacrifices could not do ! See Heb Chp 7-10 ; And this Justification of remission of sins is solely accomplished on the death/ blood of Christ Matt 26:28

28 For this is my blood of the new testament, which is shed for many for the remission of sins.

Heb 9:22

22 And almost all things are by the law purged with blood; and without shedding of blood is no remission.

Eph 1:7

7 In whom we have redemption through his blood, the forgiveness of sins, according to the riches of his grace;

Now that Justification here in Acts 13:39 pertains to the forgiveness of sins is seen from what is said in Vs 38

38 Be it known unto you therefore, men and brethren, that through this man is preached unto you the forgiveness of sins:

Forgiveness of sins is the negative side of Justification, but does have a positive effect, it gives the forgiven reconciliation to God even while they are enemies Rom 5:10

10 For if, when we were enemies, we were reconciled to God by the death of his Son, much more, being reconciled, we shall be saved by his life.

Reconciliation is because of forgiveness, which is Justification ! This Truth also confirms Justification before Faith !

 

[brightfame52]

In the Greek, the words "be made" are in the future tense ... not past tense.

Righteousness is imputed to mankind when a person believes:

Romans 4:

24 But for us also, to whom it [righteousness] shall be imputed, if we believe on him that raised up Jesus our Lord from the dead;

25 Who was delivered for our offences, and was raised again for our justification.

5:1 Therefore being justified by faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ

vs 24 - righteousness is imputed when a person believes on him that raised up Jesus our Lord from the dead ... not before.

vs 1 - therefore being justified by faith ... the text does not read "therefore being justified before faith".
.

Its in the future tense because they had not yet been born, the emphasis is on they shall be born again, made righteous spiritually, however they were already made righteous legally. The same was true with them in adam, by adams disobedience they were legally made sinners, and then they were born sinners because of that, so likewise, because of Christs obedience, they are legally made righteous, so then they must be born again because of that.

 

[brightfame52]

nope ... your limited atonement serves to "down play the accomplishment of Christ Justifying death" because you lack "Faith" to trust the sacrifice of the Lord Jesus Christ was sufficient for all the sins of all mankind (all mankind ... from Adam to present to all who will be born in the future).

John 1:29 The next day John seeth Jesus coming unto him, and saith, Behold the Lamb of God, which taketh away the sin of the world.

1 John 2:2 And he is the propitiation for our sins: and not for ours only, but also for the sins of the whole world.
.

Yes you do down play the death of Christ, you insinuate that people Christ died for, are yet unjustified. That strips His death of its Justifying merit, accomplishment.

 

[Sipsey]

Its in the future tense because they had not yet been born, the emphasis is on they shall be born again, made righteous spiritually, however they were already made righteous legally. The same was true with them in adam, by adams disobedience they were legally made sinners, and then they were born sinners because of that, so likewise, because of Christs obedience, they are legally made righteous, so then they must be born again because of that.

So, they are born in sin, but simultaneously declared righteous? At what point does one go from dead in sin to justified? If that is the case, does one need to do anything for this justified eternal life?

 

[reneweddaybyday]

Yes, if you believe truly, that is True Faith with works like: keeping His commandments, you will be saved.

... you really believe the death, resurrection, ascension of the Lord Jesus Christ was insufficient ???
.

 

[reneweddaybyday]

This Truth also confirms Justification before Faith !

the only "Truth" found in your Post #1031 is the verses quoted from Scripture ... your "surmisings" are not "truth" (lower case "t" or upper case "t")
.

 

[reneweddaybyday]

Its in the future tense because they had not yet been born

which reveals the error of your claim that the "elect" are justified before they are born.

you insinuate that people Christ died for, are yet unjustified.

God tells us when people are justified:

Romans 4:

20 He [Abraham] staggered not at the promise of God through unbelief; but was strong in faith, giving glory to God;

21 And being fully persuaded that, what he [God] had promised, he [God] was able also to perform.

22 And therefore it [Abraham's faith] was imputed to him for righteousness.

23 Now it was not written for his sake alone, that it was imputed to him;

24 But for us also, to whom it [righteousness] shall be imputed, if we believe on him that raised up Jesus our Lord from the dead;

25 Who was delivered for our offences, and was raised again for our justification.

5:1 Therefore being justified by faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ

vs 24 - righteousness is imputed when a person believes on him that raised up Jesus our Lord from the dead ... not before.

vs 1 - therefore being justified by faith ... the text does not read "therefore being justified before faith".

That strips His death of its Justifying merit, accomplishment.

nope ... exposing the fallacy of your dogma does not "strip His death of its Justifying merit, accomplishment."
.

 

[brightfame52]

So, they are born in sin, but simultaneously declared righteous? At what point does one go from dead in sin to justified? If that is the case, does one need to do anything for this justified eternal life?

Yes. Also the emphasize is on the fact they are made righteous by Christ one and only obedience.

 

[brightfame52]

the only "Truth" found in your Post #1031 is the verses quoted from Scripture ... your "surmisings" are not "truth" (lower case "t" or upper case "t")
.

All I can do is witness the truth and it is up to God whether or not you believe it.

 

[brightfame52]

which reveals the error of your claim that the "elect" are justified before they are born.





God tells us when people are justified:

Romans 4:

20 He [Abraham] staggered not at the promise of God through unbelief; but was strong in faith, giving glory to God;

21 And being fully persuaded that, what he [God] had promised, he [God] was able also to perform.

22 And therefore it [Abraham's faith] was imputed to him for righteousness.

23 Now it was not written for his sake alone, that it was imputed to him;

24 But for us also, to whom it [righteousness] shall be imputed, if we believe on him that raised up Jesus our Lord from the dead;

25 Who was delivered for our offences, and was raised again for our justification.

5:1 Therefore being justified by faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ

vs 24 - righteousness is imputed when a person believes on him that raised up Jesus our Lord from the dead ... not before.

vs 1 - therefore being justified by faith ... the text does not read "therefore being justified before faith".





nope ... exposing the fallacy of your dogma does not "strip His death of its Justifying merit, accomplishment."
.

Also they are made righteous by Christ obedience alone. Not Christ and their own obedience!