Who Justifieth the Ungodly

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Mar 23, 2016
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All for whom He died equates to the Elect or Sheep.
2 Corinthians 5:19 To wit, that God was in Christ, reconciling the world unto himself, not imputing their trespasses unto them; and hath committed unto us the word of reconciliation.


John 1:29 The next day John seeth Jesus coming unto him, and saith, Behold the Lamb of God, which taketh away the sin of the world.


John 3:16-17 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life. For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved.


1 John 2:2 And he is the propitiation for our sins: and not for ours only, but also for the sins of the whole world.
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Mar 23, 2016
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Eph 2:3 has been read in its context, how else can you read it ? Now does it say anything about being UNDER GODS WRATH ?
It's so interesting that you have to specifically read the words "UNDER GODS WRATH" in order to believe that Ephesians 2:3 tells you that prior to being born again (if you are born again) you were by nature [a child] of wrath even as others.

Yet, when God's Word tells us that the Lord Jesus Christ died for the sins of the world and that He is the propitiation for the sins of the whole world, you read the words "the world" and "the whole world" and deny that God means "the world" or "the whole world".

you so silly.
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Mar 23, 2016
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all those He died for are accounted Righteous
John 1:29 The next day John seeth Jesus coming unto him, and saith, Behold the Lamb of God, which taketh away the sin of the world.


John 3:16-17 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life. For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved.


1 John 2:2 And he is the propitiation for our sins: and not for ours only, but also for the sins of the whole world.


2 Corinthians 5:19 To wit, that God was in Christ, reconciling the world unto himself, not imputing their trespasses unto them; and hath committed unto us the word of reconciliation.




brightfame52 said:
all those He died for are accounted Righteous before God's Law and Justice, BEFORE THEY BELIEVE !
Romans 3:22 Even the righteousness of God which is by faith of Jesus Christ unto all and upon all them that believe ...

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Mar 23, 2016
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Justification without Faith !

Ones Justification before God, if indeed Christ died for them, does not depend on their believing it, apprehending it by Faith, nor receiving it by Faith, in fact they do not even have to know about it at all
:rolleyes:

Hebrews 11:6 But without faith it is impossible to please him [God]: for he that cometh to God must believe that he is, and that he is a rewarder of them that diligently seek him.

Romans 5:1 Therefore being justified by faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ




brightfame52 said:
... if indeed Christ died for them ...
Since the Lord Jesus Christ died to take away the sins of the world (John 1:29), it is apparent that "indeed Christ died for them" ... again :rolleyes:


READ YOUR BIBLE!!!
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brightfame52

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Nov 21, 2020
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Justified by His Death !

All for whom Christ died, are by that fact alone, Justified before God, and because of it ; and so is the meaning of these most blessed words Rom 8:32-34

32 He that spared not his own Son, but delivered him up for us all, how shall he not with him also freely give us all things?

33 Who shall lay any thing to the charge of God's elect? It is God that justifieth.

34 Who is he that condemneth? It is Christ that died, yea rather, that is risen again, who is even at the right hand of God, who also maketh intercession for us.

The obvious point here is that the non charges on God's Elect is solely based upon the Fact that Christ died, that He was delivered up and this constituted the phrase " It is God that Justifieth "

Now, if God delivered Christ up to die for us as per Vs 32, then we are delivered and Justified; and Christ having been delivered up for our offences as Per Rom 4:25

25 Who was delivered for our offences, and was raised again for our justification.

Then who shall lay anything to our Charge ? The implication is that God certainly doesn't ! For it is God that Justifieth ! The things the Apostle stated in Vs 32 of Rom 8 is what Gods Justifying is based upon in Vs 33 and then its clearly stated in the top of Vs 34 " It is Christ that died"

And then it is the Resurrection that gives evidential proof of the same Rom 4:25

25 Who was delivered for our offences, and was raised again for our justification.

In other words, if God did not raise up Christ from the dead after He was delivered up for our sins, then we would have been condemned ! However, because He did raise up Christ after He died for the sins of those He died for, it means that those ones are Justified before Him; For that is what the resurrection signifies and proclaims ! The Justification of those He died in behalf of, and so He makes Intercession for them whom His Death Justified Rom 8:34

34 Who is he that condemneth? It is Christ that died, yea rather, that is risen again [For our Justifcation], who is even at the right hand of God, who also maketh intercession for us.

Jesus Christ died in order that God might Jusify us, He was made a curse for us by dying Gal 3:13 and now God in Divine Justice acquits us , from the curse of the Law, which is Eternal Damnation Matt 25:41

41 Then shall he say also unto them on the left hand, Depart from me, ye cursed, into everlasting fire, prepared for the devil and his angels: 9
 

brightfame52

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Nov 21, 2020
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2 Corinthians 5:19 To wit, that God was in Christ, reconciling the world unto himself, not imputing their trespasses unto them; and hath committed unto us the word of reconciliation.


John 1:29 The next day John seeth Jesus coming unto him, and saith, Behold the Lamb of God, which taketh away the sin of the world.


John 3:16-17 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life. For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved.


1 John 2:2 And he is the propitiation for our sins: and not for ours only, but also for the sins of the whole world.





Let's look at Romans 5:18:

Romans 5:18 Therefore as by the offence of one judgment came upon all men to condemnation; even so by the righteousness of one the free gift came upon all men unto justification of life.

Romans 5:18 reiterates what we see in 2 Corinthians 5:19, John 1:29, John 3:16-17, 1 John 2:2.

John 3:16-17 clearly tells us whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.





Romans 4:

20 He [Abraham] staggered not at the promise of God through unbelief; but was strong in faith, giving glory to God;

21 And being fully persuaded that, what he [God] had promised, he [God] was able also to perform.

22 And therefore it [Abraham's faith] was imputed to him for righteousness.

23 Now it was not written for his sake alone, that it [righteousness] was imputed to him;

24 But for us also, to whom it [righteousness] shall be imputed, if we believe on him that raised up Jesus our Lord from the dead;

25 Who was delivered for our offences, and was raised again for our justification.

5:1 Therefore being justified by faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ

vs 24 - righteousness is imputed when a person believes on him that raised up Jesus our Lord from the dead ... not before.

vs 1 - therefore being justified by faith ... the text does not read "therefore being justified before faith".





Let's just take a look at the context within which Luke 1:77 sits so we can determine if Luke 1:77 states that "faith is the means of how we receive the knowledge of our Justification":

Luke 1:67-79 reveals prophetic words spoken by Zacharias concerning his son, John Baptist:

Luke 1:

67 And his father Zacharias was filled with the Holy Ghost, and prophesied, saying,

68 Blessed be the Lord God of Israel; for he hath visited and redeemed his people,

69 And hath raised up an horn of salvation for us in the house of his servant David;

70 As he spake by the mouth of his holy prophets, which have been since the world began:

71 That we should be saved from our enemies, and from the hand of all that hate us;

72 To perform the mercy promised to our fathers, and to remember his holy covenant;

73 The oath which he sware to our father Abraham,

74 That he would grant unto us, that we being delivered out of the hand of our enemies might serve him without fear,

75 In holiness and righteousness before him, all the days of our life.

76 And thou, child, [John Baptist] shalt be called the prophet of the Highest: for thou shalt go before the face of the Lord to prepare his ways;

77 To give knowledge of salvation unto his people by the remission of their sins,

78 Through the tender mercy of our God; whereby the dayspring from on high hath visited us,

79 To give light to them that sit in darkness and in the shadow of death, to guide our feet into the way of peace.


Luke 1:76-77 states that John Baptist would go before the Lord to prepare His way and John Baptist would give knowledge of salvation to people.


READ YOUR BIBLE!!!


Ephesians 4:14 That we henceforth be no more children, tossed to and fro, and carried about with every wind of doctrine, by the sleight of men, and cunning craftiness, whereby they lie in wait to deceive
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This is just being adversarial against the truth.
 

brightfame52

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Nov 21, 2020
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2 Corinthians 5:19 To wit, that God was in Christ, reconciling the world unto himself, not imputing their trespasses unto them; and hath committed unto us the word of reconciliation.


John 1:29 The next day John seeth Jesus coming unto him, and saith, Behold the Lamb of God, which taketh away the sin of the world.


John 3:16-17 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life. For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved.


1 John 2:2 And he is the propitiation for our sins: and not for ours only, but also for the sins of the whole world.
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Again all for whom Christ died equates to His Sheep, Gods elect.
 

brightfame52

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Nov 21, 2020
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It's so interesting that you have to specifically read the words "UNDER GODS WRATH" in order to believe that Ephesians 2:3 tells you that prior to being born again (if you are born again) you were by nature [a child] of wrath even as others.

Yet, when God's Word tells us that the Lord Jesus Christ died for the sins of the world and that He is the propitiation for the sins of the whole world, you read the words "the world" and "the whole world" and deny that God means "the world" or "the whole world".

you so silly.
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Those Christ died for can never be under Gods wrath, because Christ has taken away all their sins and propitiated God in their behalf.
 

brightfame52

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Nov 21, 2020
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John 1:29 The next day John seeth Jesus coming unto him, and saith, Behold the Lamb of God, which taketh away the sin of the world.


John 3:16-17 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life. For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved.


1 John 2:2 And he is the propitiation for our sins: and not for ours only, but also for the sins of the whole world.


2 Corinthians 5:19 To wit, that God was in Christ, reconciling the world unto himself, not imputing their trespasses unto them; and hath committed unto us the word of reconciliation.





Romans 3:22 Even the righteousness of God which is by faith of Jesus Christ unto all and upon all them that believe ...
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All the people Christ died for are because of His death accounted righteous.
 

brightfame52

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:rolleyes:

Hebrews 11:6 But without faith it is impossible to please him [God]: for he that cometh to God must believe that he is, and that he is a rewarder of them that diligently seek him.

Romans 5:1 Therefore being justified by faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ





Since the Lord Jesus Christ died to take away the sins of the world (John 1:29), it is apparent that "indeed Christ died for them" ... again :rolleyes:


READ YOUR BIBLE!!!
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Gods elect are Justified before God prior to them having any knowledge of it.
 
Mar 23, 2016
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To say a person is Justified before God by their believing, or because of their believing, is a flat out denial that one is Justified by Christ
read your Bible, brightfame52 ...

Romans 4:

20 He [Abraham] staggered not at the promise of God through unbelief; but was strong in faith, giving glory to God;

21 And being fully persuaded that, what he [God] had promised, he was able also to perform.

22 And therefore it [Abraham's faith] was imputed to him for righteousness.

23 Now it was not written for his sake alone, that it was imputed to him;

24 But for us also, to whom it [righteousness] shall be imputed, if we believe on him that raised up Jesus our Lord from the dead;

25 Who was delivered for our offences, and was raised again for our justification.

5:1 Therefore being justified by faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ


Those who state mankind is justified through faith in the Lord Jesus Christ are stating exactly what God tells us in His Word.

For you to accuse the believer of "flat out denial that one is Justified by Christ" is nothing but the lie of the devil ... and you should stop your inflammatory accusations.




brightfame52 said:
Justification before God is the thing not seen by the physical Eye, but it must exist before Faith is the Evidence of it !

Ones now having evidence of it , is not what caused it to exist before God as a fact, prior to receiving evidence of it.
Romans 1:16-17 For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ: for it [the Gospel of Christ] is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth; to the Jew first, and also to the Greek. For therein is the righteousness of God revealed from faith to faith: as it is written, The just shall live by faith.

You should change your reasoning to reflect what is actually written in Scripture ...

those who suppress the truth in unrighteousness do not change the fact that the Lord Jesus Christ is the propitiation for their sins and the means of their justification.

Romans 1:

18 For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men, who hold the truth in unrighteousness;

19 Because that which may be known of God is manifest in them; for God hath shewed it unto them.

The words "who hold" are translated from the Greek word katechō which means to restrain, hinder, suppress.

Verse 19 makes clear that God reveals His truth ... Verse 18 makes clear that some to whom God makes known His truth reject God's truth.

Therefore, we see in Romans 1:20 that those who suppress the truth in unrighteousness are without excuse ... and we see in Romans 1:16 that those who believe (i.e. do not suppress the truth in unrighteousness) are the justified ones.
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Mar 23, 2016
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"for those He died" ... "all for whom Christ has died" ...


Jesus Christ sat down at the Right Hand of the Majesty on High, it was after completing for those He died , the purging or purification of their sins.

brightfame52 said:
God has acquitted and Vindicated from all condemnation, and guilt all for whom Christ has died

Now it appears from this scripture Isa 53:11 that all for whom Christ died, which is to bear their iniquities, resulted in them being Justified or accounted Righteous.

...

hence we conclude that all for whom He died also had Christ's Righteousness Imputed to them

brightfame52 said:
the Truth of Justification before God of those Christ died for

John 1:29 The next day John seeth Jesus coming unto him, and saith, Behold the Lamb of God, which taketh away the sin of the world.


John 3:16-17 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life. For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved.


1 John 2:2 And he is the propitiation for our sins: and not for ours only, but also for the sins of the whole world.
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Mar 23, 2016
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Prov 6:1

My son, if thou be surety for thy friend, if thou hast stricken thy hand with a stranger,

Christ in this case engaged Himself before the foundation, to pay the debt incurred by His Friends
ummmm ... I don't know that this Scripture is the best Scripture to use concerning my Lord and Savior Jesus Christ having "engaged Himself before the foundation, to pay the debt incurred by His Friends".

Let's read the verse in the context within which it sits ...

Proverbs 6:

1 My son, if thou be surety for thy friend, if thou hast stricken thy hand with a stranger,

2 Thou art snared with the words of thy mouth, thou art taken with the words of thy mouth.

3 Do this now, my son, and deliver thyself, when thou art come into the hand of thy friend; go, humble thyself, and make sure thy friend.

4 Give not sleep to thine eyes, nor slumber to thine eyelids.

5 Deliver thyself as a roe from the hand of the hunter, and as a bird from the hand of the fowler.


The point in Prov 6:1-5 is the father counsels the son to use any and all means to relieve himself of that which he has bound himself as surety.


READ YOUR BIBLE!!!
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Mar 23, 2016
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Faith is instrumental in conveyance of the Spiritual Knowledge of Justification in our hearts and minds , but never is it the cause of our Justification before God !
:rolleyes: READ YOUR BIBLE!!!


Romans 4:

3 For what saith the scripture? Abraham believed God, and it [Abraham's faith] was counted unto him for righteousness.

...

5 But to him that worketh not, but believeth on him that justifieth the ungodly, his faith is counted for righteousness.

...

24 But for us also, to whom it [righteousness] shall be imputed, if we believe on him that raised up Jesus our Lord from the dead

...

5:1 Therefore being justified by faith ...
 
Mar 23, 2016
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However, because He did raise up Christ after He died for the sins of those He died for, it means that those ones are Justified before Him
"it means that those ones are Justified before Him"

no ... it means the sin issue has been dealt with.

Since sin has been dealt with, what is the issue???

Romans 1:16 For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ: for it [the gospel] is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth; to the Jew first, and also to the Greek.


Now read the consequence for those who reject:

Romans 1:

18 For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men, who hold the truth in unrighteousness;

19 Because that which may be known of God is manifest in them; for God hath shewed it unto them.

20 For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even his eternal power and Godhead; so that they are without excuse


Again, those who suppress the truth in unrighteousness are the ones who are without excuse before God.

That which may be known of God has been revealed to them (vs 19) ... yet they suppress the truth.
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Mar 23, 2016
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This is just being adversarial against the truth.
nope ... it's speaking Truth to your dogmatic rhetoric.





all for whom Christ died equates to His Sheep, Gods elect.
only according to your manipulation Scripture ... where you change God's Word from "the world" and "the whole world" to your unScriptural meaning.


it is written

According to Scripture, the Lord Jesus Christ died for the sins of the world and He is the propitiation for the sins of the whole world.

John 1:29 The next day John seeth Jesus coming unto him, and saith, Behold the Lamb of God, which taketh away the sin of the world.


John 3:16-17 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life. For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved.


1 John 2:2 And he is the propitiation for our sins: and not for ours only, but also for the sins of the whole world.




Those Christ died for can never be under Gods wrath
Prior to being born again, the believer was a child of wrath, even as others:

Ephesians 2:3 Among whom also we all had our conversation in times past in the lusts of our flesh, fulfilling the desires of the flesh and of the mind; and were by nature the children of wrath, even as others.



READ YOUR BIBLE!!!
.
 

brightfame52

Well-known member
Nov 21, 2020
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read your Bible, brightfame52 ...

Romans 4:

20 He [Abraham] staggered not at the promise of God through unbelief; but was strong in faith, giving glory to God;

21 And being fully persuaded that, what he [God] had promised, he was able also to perform.

22 And therefore it [Abraham's faith] was imputed to him for righteousness.

23 Now it was not written for his sake alone, that it was imputed to him;

24 But for us also, to whom it [righteousness] shall be imputed, if we believe on him that raised up Jesus our Lord from the dead;

25 Who was delivered for our offences, and was raised again for our justification.

5:1 Therefore being justified by faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ


Those who state mankind is justified through faith in the Lord Jesus Christ are stating exactly what God tells us in His Word.

For you to accuse the believer of "flat out denial that one is Justified by Christ" is nothing but the lie of the devil ... and you should stop your inflammatory accusations.





Romans 1:16-17 For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ: for it [the Gospel of Christ] is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth; to the Jew first, and also to the Greek. For therein is the righteousness of God revealed from faith to faith: as it is written, The just shall live by faith.

You should change your reasoning to reflect what is actually written in Scripture ...

those who suppress the truth in unrighteousness do not change the fact that the Lord Jesus Christ is the propitiation for their sins and the means of their justification.

Romans 1:

18 For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men, who hold the truth in unrighteousness;

19 Because that which may be known of God is manifest in them; for God hath shewed it unto them.

The words "who hold" are translated from the Greek word katechō which means to restrain, hinder, suppress.

Verse 19 makes clear that God reveals His truth ... Verse 18 makes clear that some to whom God makes known His truth reject God's truth.

Therefore, we see in Romans 1:20 that those who suppress the truth in unrighteousness are without excuse ... and we see in Romans 1:16 that those who believe (i.e. do not suppress the truth in unrighteousness) are the justified ones.
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I don't know what you talking about, for it disproved nothing I said.
 

brightfame52

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Nov 21, 2020
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"for those He died" ... "all for whom Christ has died" ...














John 1:29 The next day John seeth Jesus coming unto him, and saith, Behold the Lamb of God, which taketh away the sin of the world.


John 3:16-17 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life. For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved.


1 John 2:2 And he is the propitiation for our sins: and not for ours only, but also for the sins of the whole world.
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It is simple since Christ death did not purge everyone's sins away, He did not die for everyone.
 

brightfame52

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"it means that those ones are Justified before Him"

no ... it means the sin issue has been dealt with.

Since sin has been dealt with, what is the issue???

Romans 1:16 For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ: for it [the gospel] is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth; to the Jew first, and also to the Greek.


Now read the consequence for those who reject:

Romans 1:

18 For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men, who hold the truth in unrighteousness;

19 Because that which may be known of God is manifest in them; for God hath shewed it unto them.

20 For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even his eternal power and Godhead; so that they are without excuse


Again, those who suppress the truth in unrighteousness are the ones who are without excuse before God.

That which may be known of God has been revealed to them (vs 19) ... yet they suppress the truth.
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There sin issue was dealt with that is why He rose because of their justification.
 

brightfame52

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Nov 21, 2020
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nope ... it's speaking Truth to your dogmatic rhetoric.





only according to your manipulation Scripture ... where you change God's Word from "the world" and "the whole world" to your unScriptural meaning.


it is written

According to Scripture, the Lord Jesus Christ died for the sins of the world and He is the propitiation for the sins of the whole world.

John 1:29 The next day John seeth Jesus coming unto him, and saith, Behold the Lamb of God, which taketh away the sin of the world.


John 3:16-17 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life. For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved.


1 John 2:2 And he is the propitiation for our sins: and not for ours only, but also for the sins of the whole world.





Prior to being born again, the believer was a child of wrath, even as others:

Ephesians 2:3 Among whom also we all had our conversation in times past in the lusts of our flesh, fulfilling the desires of the flesh and of the mind; and were by nature the children of wrath, even as others.



READ YOUR BIBLE!!!
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It doesn't matter what scriptures you use with the word world in it, it only applies to the elect, or the Church.