Who Justifieth the Ungodly

[reneweddaybyday]

So sad you can't just read God's Word as written without manipulating it to prop up a dogma never intended by the Author of Scripture.

Too bad you have only a natural understanding of Gods word and the word world, instead of a biblical understanding of it.

cough cough … says the one who manipulates Scripture in order to prop up a dogma never intended by the Author of Scripture.

it is written

According to Scripture, the Lord Jesus Christ died for the sins of the world and He is the propitiation for the sins of the whole world.

John 1:29 The next day John seeth Jesus coming unto him, and saith, Behold the Lamb of God, which taketh away the sin of the world.

John 3:16-17 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life. For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved.

1 John 2:2 And he is the propitiation for our sins: and not for ours only, but also for the sins of the whole world.
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[reneweddaybyday]

Those Christ died for are Justified while ungodly, that cant be said about the whole ungodly world of men.

it is written


1 John 2:2 And he is the propitiation for our sins: and not for ours only, but also for the sins of the whole world.


Romans 4:

23 Now it was not written for his sake alone, that it [righteousness] was imputed to him;

24 But for us also, to whom it [righteousness] shall be imputed, if we believe on him that raised up Jesus our Lord from the dead;

25 Who was delivered for our offences, and was raised again for our justification.

5:1 Therefore being justified by faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ
.

 

[reneweddaybyday]

all Christ died for are Justified by His Blood

John 1:29 The next day John seeth Jesus coming unto him, and saith, Behold the Lamb of God, which taketh away the sin of the world.


John 3:16-17 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life. For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved.


1 John 2:2 And he is the propitiation for our sins: and not for ours only, but also for the sins of the whole world.
.

 

[reneweddaybyday]

Doesnt matter how many times Rom 4:5 is read

praying God will bring increase to your heart so you are able to comprehend what He has written (as opposed to your erroneous dogma).

James 1:

5 If any of you lack wisdom, let him ask of God, that giveth to all men liberally, and upbraideth not; and it shall be given him.

6 But let him ask in faith, nothing wavering. For he that wavereth is like a wave of the sea driven with the wind and tossed.

7 For let not that man think that he shall receive any thing of the Lord.
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[reneweddaybyday]

This Justification in Rom 3:24 God does bestow or impute or charge to, or reckon to, all for whom Christ died, and this without any demand whatsover on their persons, but solely on the Gift Imputed through the Work of Christ, or the Redemption that is in Him Rom 5:18b

Instead of jumping from Romans 3:24 to Romans 5:18, just continue reading in Romans 3:

24 Being justified freely by his grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus:

25 Whom God hath set forth to be a propitiation through faith in his blood, to declare his righteousness for the remission of sins that are past, through the forbearance of God;

26 To declare, I say, at this time his righteousness: that he might be just, and the justifier of him which believeth in Jesus.


so sad you won't just believe what is written ...
.

 

[reneweddaybyday]

scripture teaches that some men are condemned already Jn 3:18 and are under God's Wrath Jn 3:36

let's check out John 3:18 and John 3:36 to see what is written:


John 3:18 He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.

Believe = not condemned

Believe not = condemned, because he has not believed


John 3:36 He that believeth on the Son hath everlasting life: and he that believeth not the Son shall not see life; but the wrath of God abideth on him.

Believe = everlasting life

Believe not = wrath of God


doesn't matter how much you twist and turn, brightfame52 ... those who believe are justified ... have eternal life. So sad you can't just read what's written.
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[reneweddaybyday]

The all men that Justification of Life came upon in Rom 5:18 are the All Men that constitute all the Seed of Israel [Christ] the Seed of Abraham Gal 3:16

16 Now to Abraham and his seed were the promises made. He saith not, And to seeds, as of many; but as of one, And to thy seed, which is Christ.

oh brother, such a sorrowful manipulation of what is written.


Galatians 3:16 Now to Abraham and his seed were the promises made. He saith not, And to seeds, as of many; but as of one, And to thy seed, which is Christ.

In Gal 3:16, God states that the promise He made to Abraham was made to Abraham's seed ... the Lord Jesus Christ.


Now, let's look at the "all men" of Romans 5:18:

Romans 5:18 Therefore as by the offence of one judgment came upon all men to condemnation; even so by the righteousness of one the free gift came upon all men unto justification of life.


In stating that the "all men" of Romans 5:18 = the "seed of Abraham Gal 3:16", you're saying that the Lord Jesus Christ had judgment come upon Him to condemnation and had need of the free gift unto justification of life.


Quit manipulating Scripture ... READ YOUR BIBLE!!!
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[reneweddaybyday]

Folks we do not believe in Justification by Faith unless we understand that we were Justified first by God while in a ungodly and faithless state !

Your understanding is skewed by your dogma.

Just read what is written in Scripture and let God remove the erroneous dogma to which you so desperately cling.


Romans 4:

3 For what saith the scripture? Abraham believed God, and it [Abraham's faith] was counted unto him for righteousness.

...

5 But to him that worketh not, but believeth on him that justifieth the ungodly, his faith is counted for righteousness.

...

24 But for us also, to whom it [righteousness] shall be imputed, if we believe on him that raised up Jesus our Lord from the dead

...

5:1 Therefore being justified by faith ...


Please note that these verses do not state that faith is imputed and then we believe. The verses clearly state that we believe and then God imputes righteousness.


We can even go back and read about Abraham and see when God imputed righteousness to him:

Genesis 15:

3 And Abram said, Behold, to me thou hast given no seed: and, lo, one born in my house is mine heir.

4 And, behold, the word of the LORD came unto him, saying, This shall not be thine heir; but he that shall come forth out of thine own bowels shall be thine heir.

5 And he brought him forth abroad, and said, Look now toward heaven, and tell the stars, if thou be able to number them: and he said unto him, So shall thy seed be.

6 And he [Abraham] believed in the LORD; and he [God] counted it to him for righteousness.


Gen 15:6 does not state that righteousness was counted to Abraham before Abraham believed.

Gen 15:6 does not state that God justified Abraham and then Abraham believed.


READ YOUR BIBLE!!!
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[reneweddaybyday]

God's Elect, those Christ died for

because all for whom He died

God's Elect whom Christ died

John 1:29 The next day John seeth Jesus coming unto him, and saith, Behold the Lamb of God, which taketh away the sin of the world.


John 3:16-17 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life. For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved.


1 John 2:2 And he is the propitiation for our sins: and not for ours only, but also for the sins of the whole world.

 

[reneweddaybyday]

If Justified before Faith, we are [if Christ died for us] Justified before our existence !

just read the verse, brightfame52:

Romans 4:5 But to him that worketh not, but believeth on him that justifieth the ungodly, his faith is counted for righteousness.

The verse does not state (as you claim) that anyone is "Justified before Faith" or "Justified before our existence".

The verse states that the one who believes on Him Who justifies, his faith is counted for righteousness.

Quit mangling Scripture to prop up your erroneous dogma!


You also state that "we are [if Christ died for us] Justified".

Since Scripture plainly tells us (in John 1:29, John 3:16-17, 1 John 2:2) that the Lord Jesus Christ died for the sins of the whole world, and He is the propitiation for the sins of the whole world, you are the one espousing universalism, which, according to your statement in your Post #1154, is "false teaching".
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[brightfame52]

Justifieth Unbelievers !

Many in false organized religion, or even unorganized religion, people who claim to be Christian, but are not really, never believing the Gospel, many of them will say that God does not save unbelievers, but that is a bold face lie, where is the scripture that states that ? If that were true, then all men would be lost and without hope, because all men by nature are lost and imprisoned in unbelief Rom 11:32

32 For God hath concluded them all in unbelief, that he might have mercy upon all.

All are by nature lost in the sphere of unbelief !

But yet Thanks be to God, that He does save / Justify unbelievers, ungodly people Rom 4:5

5 But to him that worketh not, but believeth on him that justifieth the ungodly, his faith is counted for righteousness.

Now the object of Faith here is God who is justifying the UNGODLY, and as such, they are unbelievers, and God who Justifies them as such, as ungodly, then unbelievers, that is before faith antecedently to the act of believing, which act is an evidence of their already Justification in Christ, for He rose and was Justified on their account Rom 4:25

25 Who was delivered for[on account of] our offences, and was raised again for[on account of] our justification.

Simply meaning, if those on whose account He died for were not thereby Justified before God's Law and Justice before Him, then He would not have been risen from the dead ! And all believers that He died for are first unbelievers , so they were Justified while being unbelievers, the Resurrection proves it ! 10

 

[brightfame52]

More manipulation of the discussion at hand because you reject what is written in Scripture.

Romans 4:

20 He [Abraham] staggered not at the promise of God through unbelief; but was strong in faith, giving glory to God;

21 And being fully persuaded that, what he had promised, he was able also to perform.

22 And therefore it [Abraham's faith] was imputed to him for righteousness.

23 Now it was not written for his sake alone, that it [righteousness] was imputed to him;

24 But for us also, to whom it [righteousness] shall be imputed, if we believe on him that raised up Jesus our Lord from the dead;

25 Who was delivered for our offences, and was raised again for our justification.

5:1 Therefore being justified by faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ


God says righteousness is imputed if we believe (Rom 4:24) and God says we are justified by faith (Rom 5:1).

When I state exactly what is written in Scripture, that is not me saying "a person is Justified before God by their believing, or because of their believing".

That is me telling you what is written in Scripture ... and it is you manipulating/misinterpreting what is written. You misinterpret what is submitted in the discussion in the same manner you misinterpret Scripture.
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So obviously you deny the justification[before God] of sinners Christ died for, prior to their believing, which can only mean you believe a sinner is Justified before God, not by the precious blood of Christ, but because of their act of believing. Isn't that correct ?

 

[brightfame52]

Sin is not the issue. God made provision for the sin of mankind before the foundation of the world.

When mankind rejects God's provision, mankind reaps the consequence of their decision ... just as is stated in Romans 1:

Romans 1:

18 For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men, who hold [Greek katechō = suppress, restrain, hinder] the truth in unrighteousness;

19 Because that which may be known of God is manifest in them; for God hath shewed it unto them.

20 For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even his eternal power and Godhead; so that they are without excuse


We have gone over this before, brightfame52. Mankind rejects God, wants to go his or her own way, and God allows him or her to do that.


Now look at what God says in Romans 1:16-17

Romans 1:

16 For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ: for it [the gospel] is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth; to the Jew first, and also to the Greek.

17 For therein [in the gospel of Christ] is the righteousness of God revealed from faith to faith: as it is written, The just shall live by faith.


Those who believe the gospel of Christ do not reject and, according to Rom 1:16, the gospel of Christ is the power of God unto salvation.

For you to manipulate what is written in Scripture into "a person is Justified before God by their believing" is just you suppressing the truth in unrighteousness (Rom 1:18).
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Sin is not the issue ? Then why did Christ die for sins, to put them away ? Heb 9:26

For then must he often have suffered since the foundation of the world: but now once in the end of the world hath he appeared to put away sin by the sacrifice of himself.

Now since sin for them Christ died for, has been put away, how can they turn around and die in their sins ? Jn 8:24

I said therefore unto you, that ye shall die in your sins: for if ye believe not that I am he, ye shall die in your sins.

Remember unbelief is a sin !

 

[brightfame52]

Nope. Read what God says about those who suppress the truth in unrighteousness:

Romans 1:18 For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men, who hold the truth in unrighteousness


Those who suppress the truth in unrighteousness are under God's wrath ... even though the Lord Jesus Christ has dealt with the sin issue

1 John 2:2 And He is the propitiation for our sins: and not for ours only, but for the sins of the whole world.


Again, it is not a sin issue. God has dealt with the sin issue.

It's a "faith" issue. Those who are under God's wrath place their faith in something other than the truth of God's Word.
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How can someone who Christ died, be condemned for any unrighteousness ? All sin is unrighteousness, unbelief, Idolatry, etc. So how can those in Rom 1:18 under the wrath of God, be anyone Christ died for, when according to His Covenant Death, they have forgiveness of sins by His Blood Matt 26:28 and God promises to forgive them of all unrighteusness Heb 8:12

For I will be merciful to their unrighteousness, and their sins and their iniquities will I remember no more.

Supressing the truth as in Rom 1:18 is unrighteousness isnt it ? Also Hes merciful to their ungodliness Rom 11:26


And so all Israel shall be saved: as it is written, There shall come out of Sion the Deliverer[Jesus], and shall turn away ungodliness from Jacob:

Turn away means remove it !

 

[brightfame52]

cough cough … says the one who manipulates Scripture in order to prop up a dogma never intended by the Author of Scripture.

it is written

According to Scripture, the Lord Jesus Christ died for the sins of the world and He is the propitiation for the sins of the whole world.

John 1:29 The next day John seeth Jesus coming unto him, and saith, Behold the Lamb of God, which taketh away the sin of the world.

John 3:16-17 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life. For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved.

1 John 2:2 And he is the propitiation for our sins: and not for ours only, but also for the sins of the whole world.
.

So do you deny that the word world in scripture is used in many different ways other than the natural understanding of all without exception ?

 

[brightfame52]

it is written


1 John 2:2 And he is the propitiation for our sins: and not for ours only, but also for the sins of the whole world.


Romans 4:

23 Now it was not written for his sake alone, that it [righteousness] was imputed to him;

24 But for us also, to whom it [righteousness] shall be imputed, if we believe on him that raised up Jesus our Lord from the dead;

25 Who was delivered for our offences, and was raised again for our justification.

5:1 Therefore being justified by faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ
.

Once again
Those Christ died for are Justified while ungodly, that cant be said about the whole ungodly world of men.

 

[brightfame52]

Instead of jumping from Romans 3:24 to Romans 5:18, just continue reading in Romans 3:

24 Being justified freely by his grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus:

25 Whom God hath set forth to be a propitiation through faith in his blood, to declare his righteousness for the remission of sins that are past, through the forbearance of God;

26 To declare, I say, at this time his righteousness: that he might be just, and the justifier of him which believeth in Jesus.


so sad you won't just believe what is written ...
.

See how you avoid scripture teaching ?

 

[brightfame52]

let's check out John 3:18 and John 3:36 to see what is written:


John 3:18 He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.

Believe = not condemned

Believe not = condemned, because he has not believed


John 3:36 He that believeth on the Son hath everlasting life: and he that believeth not the Son shall not see life; but the wrath of God abideth on him.

Believe = everlasting life

Believe not = wrath of God


doesn't matter how much you twist and turn, brightfame52 ... those who believe are justified ... have eternal life. So sad you can't just read what's written.
.

Sinners Christ died for arent condemned while unbelievers, they are Justified/reconciled to God while enemies Rom 5:10
10 For if, when we were enemies, we were reconciled to God by the death of his Son, much more, being reconciled, we shall be saved by his life.

Jn 3:36 can only apply to sinners Christ didnt die for, and so they die in theirs sins and unbelief Jn 8:24

 

[brightfame52]

oh brother, such a sorrowful manipulation of what is written.


Galatians 3:16 Now to Abraham and his seed were the promises made. He saith not, And to seeds, as of many; but as of one, And to thy seed, which is Christ.

In Gal 3:16, God states that the promise He made to Abraham was made to Abraham's seed ... the Lord Jesus Christ.


Now, let's look at the "all men" of Romans 5:18:

Romans 5:18 Therefore as by the offence of one judgment came upon all men to condemnation; even so by the righteousness of one the free gift came upon all men unto justification of life.


In stating that the "all men" of Romans 5:18 = the "seed of Abraham Gal 3:16", you're saying that the Lord Jesus Christ had judgment come upon Him to condemnation and had need of the free gift unto justification of life.


Quit manipulating Scripture ... READ YOUR BIBLE!!!
.

We know all men without exception dont have Justification of life. So Rom 5:18 applies to all men without distinction, the Israel of God to whom Justification in Christ the Lord is promised to Isa 45:25

25 In the Lord shall all the seed of Israel be justified, and shall glory.

Who is promises here to be Justified in the Lord ?

 

[brightfame52]

Your understanding is skewed by your dogma.

Just read what is written in Scripture and let God remove the erroneous dogma to which you so desperately cling.


Romans 4:

3 For what saith the scripture? Abraham believed God, and it [Abraham's faith] was counted unto him for righteousness.

...

5 But to him that worketh not, but believeth on him that justifieth the ungodly, his faith is counted for righteousness.

...

24 But for us also, to whom it [righteousness] shall be imputed, if we believe on him that raised up Jesus our Lord from the dead

...

5:1 Therefore being justified by faith ...


Please note that these verses do not state that faith is imputed and then we believe. The verses clearly state that we believe and then God imputes righteousness.


We can even go back and read about Abraham and see when God imputed righteousness to him:

Genesis 15:

3 And Abram said, Behold, to me thou hast given no seed: and, lo, one born in my house is mine heir.

4 And, behold, the word of the LORD came unto him, saying, This shall not be thine heir; but he that shall come forth out of thine own bowels shall be thine heir.

5 And he brought him forth abroad, and said, Look now toward heaven, and tell the stars, if thou be able to number them: and he said unto him, So shall thy seed be.

6 And he [Abraham] believed in the LORD; and he [God] counted it to him for righteousness.


Gen 15:6 does not state that righteousness was counted to Abraham before Abraham believed.

Gen 15:6 does not state that God justified Abraham and then Abraham believed.


READ YOUR BIBLE!!!
.

If a person wasnt already Justified before God, then Faith has no promise to rest in