Who Justifieth the Ungodly

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brightfame52

Well-known member
Nov 21, 2020
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Justification by His Blood !2 Rom 3:24-25

Rom 3:24-25

24 Being justified freely by his grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus:

25 Whom God hath set forth to be a propitiation through faith in his blood, to declare his righteousness for the remission of sins that are past, through the forbearance of God;

The remission of sins that are past refers to Justification of the OT Saints, for they were Justified by His Blood before it was shed in time at Calvary, and they by the Spirit of God was given Faith inHis Blood for the remission of sins "Whom God hath set forth to be a propitiation through faith in his blood"

Te OT Saints anticipated the coming of Christ to shed His Blood and satisfy God's Law and Justice, and so hence they had a proper understanding of the OT types and shadows by which God set Him forth to the eye of Faith. Thats what Jacob meant here Gen 49:10

The sceptre shall not depart from Judah, nor a lawgiver from between his feet, until Shiloh come; and unto him shall the gathering of the people be.

Thats what is meant here also Jn 11:50-52

50 Nor consider that it is expedient for us, that one man should die for the people, and that the whole nation perish not.

51 And this spake he not of himself: but being high priest that year, he prophesied that Jesus should die for that nation;

52 And not for that nation only, but that also he should gather together in one the children of God that were scattered abroad.

The Old Testament Saints, their sins too were to be remitted by the Blood here Matt 26:28

28 For this is my blood of the new testament, which is shed for many for the remission of sins.

Both OT Saints and NT Saints found remission of sins in the Blood of Christ, and I believe that was what Jesus spoke with Moses and Elijah here Lk 9:29-31

29 And as he prayed, the fashion of his countenance was altered, and his raiment was white and glistering.

30 And, behold, there talked with him two men, which were Moses and Elias:

31 Who appeared in glory, and spake of his decease which he should accomplish at Jerusalem.

His decease would accomplish remission of sins ! That word accomplish is used in this context where remission of sins is to be preached Lk 24:44-47

44 And he said unto them, These are the words which I spake unto you, while I was yet with you, that all things must be fulfilled/accomplished, which were written in the law of Moses, and in the prophets, and in the psalms, concerning me.

45 Then opened he their understanding, that they might understand the scriptures,

46 And said unto them, Thus it is written, and thus it behooved Christ to suffer, and to rise from the dead the third day:

47 And that repentance and remission of sins should be preached in his name among all nations, beginning at Jerusalem.

So the OT Saints Like Moses and Elijah were Justified by His Blood Rom 5:9, and they were also declared Righteous by His Blood, Remember Abel Heb 11:4

4 By faith Abel offered unto God a more excellent sacrifice than Cain, by which he obtained witness that he was righteous, God testifying of his gifts: and by it he being dead yet speaketh.

Abel had been given Faith in the Blood of Christ, his offering reflected that and it showed he was Justified or Righteous because of it !

The word Justified in Rom 5:9 is the greek word dikaioō:

I.
to render righteous or such he ought to be

II.
to show, exhibit, evince, one to be righteous, such as he is and wishes himself to be considered

III.
to declare, pronounce, one to be just, righteous, or such as he ought to be

I make righteous, defend the cause of, plead for the righteousness (innocence) of, acquit, justify; hence: I regard as righteous.

All the OT Saints as well as NT Saints have been acquitted from all charges, guilt and punishment, penalty for their sins through and solely through the Blood of Christ

And none of this had anything to do with their act of faith, but all the credit must go to the Blood and Him who shed it !
 
Mar 23, 2016
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Faith, or believing, the act of the creature [old or new] adds nothing to Justification before God
Hebrews 11:6 But without faith it is impossible to please him: for he that cometh to God must believe that he is, and that he is a rewarder of them that diligently seek him.


No faith = no pleasing God.


Romans 5:1 Therefore being justified by faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ

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Righteousness has been imputed if we believe, because Faith is given to them who have been recipients of Christs righteousness imputed.
:rolleyes: ... you're continuing to make stuff up because you cannot refute the central point.

Here is brightfame52 initial claim in Post 1092

"To say a person is justified before God by their believing, or because of their believing, is a flat out denial that one is justified by Christ"


Your claim is just you manipulating what has been stated. Again, no surprise because you do the same with Scripture.

And because you finally realize that you've been called out on your manipulation, you now veer off on yet another of your ... what do you call it??? oh yeah, "rabbit trail".

Romans 4:

20 He [Abraham] staggered not at the promise of God through unbelief; but was strong in faith, giving glory to God;

21 And being fully persuaded that, what he [God] had promised, he was able also to perform.

22 And therefore it [Abraham's faith] was imputed to him for righteousness.

23 Now it was not written for his sake alone, that it was imputed to him;

24 But for us also, to whom it [righteousness] shall be imputed, if we believe on him that raised up Jesus our Lord from the dead;

25 Who was delivered for our offences, and was raised again for our justification.

5:1 Therefore being justified by faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ


Those who state mankind is justified through faith in the Lord Jesus Christ are stating exactly what God tells us in His Word.

For you to accuse the believer of "flat out denial that one is Justified by Christ" is nothing but the lie of the devil ... and you should stop your inflammatory accusations.
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Again, sin isnt an issue for anyone Christ died for. Sin is an issue for sinners Christ did not die for.
sigh ... the Lord Jesus Christ died for all mankind.

John 1:29 The next day John seeth Jesus coming unto him, and saith, Behold the Lamb of God, which taketh away the sin of the world.


John 3:16-17 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life. For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved.


1 John 2:2 And he is the propitiation for our sins: and not for ours only, but also for the sins of the whole world.


Sin is an issue for those who do not believe

John 3:18 He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.


Believe = not condemned

Believe not = condemned, because he has not believed


Leave your erroneous dogma and READ YOUR BIBLE!!!
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May 22, 2020
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Rom 3:24 says it all !2

This Justification in Rom 3:24 God does bestow or impute or charge to, or reckon to, all for whom Christ died, and this without any demand whatsover on their persons, but solely on the Gift Imputed through the Work of Christ, or the Redemption that is in Him Rom 5:18b

18 Therefore as by the offence of one judgment came upon all men to condemnation; even so by the righteousness of one the free gift came upon[By Imputation or Reckoning] all men unto justification of life.

Also Rom 5:19

19 For as by one man's disobedience many were made sinners, so by the obedience of one shall many be made righteous.

This being made Righteous is by imputation of what Christ has done, its charged to the Elect's Sinner Account, and God reckons him or her, because of or through Christ, as if they had done everything that the Law of God requires, so in actuality they are these Rom 2:13

13 (For not the hearers of the law are just before God, but the doers of the law shall be justified.

Thats because that Obedience that Christ rendered to God's Law, all that was required of the Law of God Matt 22:37-40

37 Jesus said unto him, Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind.

38 This is the first and great commandment.

39 And the second is like unto it, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.

40 On these two commandments hang all the law and the prophets.


This has been charged to everyone Christ died for, as a Free Gift, even while they are unbelievers and enemies ! Thats because its all of Grace they have been freely Justified !


..........Providing......!!!!

...one repents, is baptized and begins a new life of righteousness.

You infer the umbrella of grace is automatic forgiveness for each sinful act..............not so.
 
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Again the sinners Christ died for
John 1:29 The next day John seeth Jesus coming unto him, and saith, Behold the Lamb of God, which taketh away the sin of the world.


John 3:16-17 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life. For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved.


1 John 2:2 And he is the propitiation for our sins: and not for ours only, but also for the sins of the whole world.




brightfame52 said:
So that being the case, those who are condemned in unbelief and under Gods wrath in unbelief cannot possibly be anyone Christ died for.
Your erroneous dogma conflicts with what is written in Scripture. You claim "that being the case" ... but what you claim as "the case" is found only in your dogma.

What we find in Scripture is that the Lord Jesus Christ is the propitiation for the sins of the whole world (1 John 2:2) and that those who believe are justified before God:


Romans 5:1 Therefore being justified by faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ
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Yes in Rom 5:18 the Justification of life only applies to the elect, men and women of all nations.
Again, just read Scripture as written ... without your erroneous dogma.


Romans 5:18 Therefore as by the offence of one judgment came upon all men to condemnation; even so by the righteousness of one the free gift came upon all men unto justification of life.


The all men in Romans 5:18 refers to all of Adam's descendants.

In the case of the condemnation, all of Adam's descendants under judgment to condemnation [Greek katákrima = the exact sentence of condemnation handed down after due process establishing guilt].

In the case of the justification of life, the one act of righteousness of the Lord Jesus Christ is afforded to all of Adam's descendants. However, those who reject are still under condemnation.


Under your erroneous dogma, if the all men referred to in Romans 5:18 relates only to the elect, then only the elect were under condemnation. That is where your erroneous dogma leads you.


Just read God's Word as written, believe what's written, and you'll be fine.

Romans 5:1 Therefore being justified by faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ
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Mar 23, 2016
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It makes no sense at all to give faith to an unjustifed sinner, for the Just shall live by Faith.
Yes, it does make sense that faith is inherent in all mankind.

Romans 1:

18 For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men, who hold the truth in unrighteousness;

19 Because that which may be known of God is manifest in them; for God hath shewed it unto them.

20 For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even his eternal power and Godhead; so that they are without excuse


If God withholds faith from those restrain the truth in unrighteousness (vs 18), then they have an excuse.

However, if God does not withhold faith from them, there is no excuse for them (vs 20) and they are judged with righteous judgment.


again, just read Scripture as God intended. Your erroneous dogma has blinded you to the truth revealed in Scripture.
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Thats why God used the word world, because He means elect from all over the world instead of His elect only being from amongst the jews and their nation.
Nope. if God had meant "world of the Elect" or "men and women from every nation", God would have clearly stated "world of the Elect, men and women from every nation" as He is quite capable of uttering those words to the holy men of God to whom He gave His Word (2 Peter 1:21).

You just have to manipulate Scripture in order to prop up your erroneous dogma because you cannot find Scripture which clearly states what your dogma claims.
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Magenta

Senior Member
Jul 3, 2015
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Those who are Justified by Faith had already been Justified by Christs Blood Rom 5:9

9 Much more then, being now justified by his blood, we shall be saved from wrath through him.
Are you saying that justification precedes faith? :unsure: Please clarify :)
 
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Yes if a person was Justified by Christs Blood in 33 ad, yet they were not born a sinner until 1957, they were still Justified by Christs blood because the sins they will begin to committ have already been charged to Christ and He died for them back in 33 ad.
A person is not justified before they believe (Rom 5:1).

The means of justification is available to all mankind ... not just some subgroup you refer to as "elect".


Those who believe are justified:

Romans 4:5 But to him that worketh not, but believeth on him that justifieth the ungodly, his faith is counted for righteousness. The verse does not state (as you claim) that anyone is "Justified before Faith" or "Justified before our existence". The verse states that the one who believes on Him Who justifies, his faith is counted for righteousness. Quit mangling Scripture to prop up your erroneous dogma!




brightfame52 said:
So since their sins have been already paid for God will give them the Gift of Faith
Faith is inherent in all mankind. God has provided mankind with all that is necessary to believe on Him (John 3:18):


John 3:

17 For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved.

18 He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.


What is tragic is that mankind believes lies and turns from God's provision to the lie of the adversary.


Ephesians 4:14 That we henceforth be no more children, tossed to and fro, and carried about with every wind of doctrine, by the sleight of men, and cunning craftiness, whereby they lie in wait to deceive
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Are you saying that justification precedes faith? :unsure: Please clarify :)
He's a hard-core Calvinist. He thinks people are incapable of hearing or believing the gospel before being regenerated.

He has it backwards.
 

Magenta

Senior Member
Jul 3, 2015
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He's a hard-core Calvinist. He thinks people are incapable of hearing or believing the gospel before being regenerated.

He has it backwards.
God does give us hearts of flesh which allow us to love Him.

I see it as being somewhat paradoxical. So coming down too hard on one side or the other leads to error.


Deuteronomy 30:6
 
Mar 23, 2016
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A Partial quote like that is misleading. Whats the context of the statement ?
:rolleyes: Apparently it's okay for you to mislead by partially quoting a verse of Scripture without including the context within which the verse sits, but you have a conniption fit when you think someone is doing the same to you???? hahahahahaha!!! what chutzpah!!!!
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Those who are Justified by Faith
Well at least you're finally acknowledging that crucial truth

Romans 5:1 Therefore being justified by faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ



Hebrews 11:6 But without faith it is impossible to please him: for he that cometh to God must believe that he is, and that he is a rewarder of them that diligently seek him.
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Dec 21, 2020
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God does give us hearts of flesh which allow us to love Him.
Will God do that for anyone, or only for the "elect", people He predetermined would be saved?
When does God do that for a person, before or after they become saved?

God wants everyone to be saved (1 Tim 2:4), He is not willing that any should perish ( 2 Pet 3:9).

I think Calvinism is a horrible doctrine.
 

Magenta

Senior Member
Jul 3, 2015
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Will God do that for anyone, or only for the "elect", people He predetermined would be saved?
When does God do that for a person, before or after they become saved?

God wants everyone to be saved (1 Tim 2:4), He is not willing that any should perish ( 2 Pet 3:9).

I think Calvinism is a horrible doctrine.
I agree :)


1 Timothy 2:1-4
 
Mar 23, 2016
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Christs Blood Justifies them He died for
John 1:29 The next day John seeth Jesus coming unto him, and saith, Behold the Lamb of God, which taketh away the sin of the world.


John 3:16-17 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life. For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved.


1 John 2:2 And he is the propitiation for our sins: and not for ours only, but also for the sins of
the whole world.
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Mar 23, 2016
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Again, Justification of life is limited
Romans 5:1 Therefore being justified by faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ


Romans 3:22 Even the righteousness of God which is by faith of Jesus Christ unto all and upon all them that believe: for there is no difference


1 Corinthians 1:21 For after that in the wisdom of God the world by wisdom knew not God, it pleased God by the foolishness of preaching to save them that believe.


Galatians 3:22 But the scripture hath concluded all under sin, that the promise by faith of Jesus Christ might be given to
them that believe.
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