Who Justifieth the Ungodly

[brightfame52]

When one is Justified by Faith in time, it is when God has made known to them the Mystery of His Will or Decree of their Eternal Justification, it is then they are being made consciously aware of God's Justifying sentence, that was from Eternity due to His Eternal Purpose in Christ Eph 3:11 and that Eternal Compact or Agreement in the Everlasting Covenant between the Father and Son, the Spirit bearing witness, for God makes the Covenant known to Spiritual Faith 2 Sam 23:5

Although my house be not so with God; yet he hath made with me an everlasting covenant, ordered in all things, and sure: for this is all my salvation, and all my desire, although he make it not to grow.

Ps 25:14

14 The secret of the Lord is with them that fear him; and he will shew them his covenant.

So being Justified by Faith in Time is nothing less than being made known to us our Eternal Interest in God's Eternal Covenant with His Son, and our interest in the Blood of the Everlasting Covenant Heb 13:20, and this was before being revealed to us a Mystery of God's Will Eph 1:7-981

7 In whom we have redemption through his blood, the forgiveness of sins, according to the riches of his grace;

8 Wherein he hath abounded toward us in all wisdom and prudence;

9 Having made known unto us the mystery of his will, according to his good pleasure which he hath purposed in himself:

Thats Justification by Faith !

 

[reneweddaybyday]

Christ is Our Peace with God before We believe

Wrong. We have no peace with God until we are justified ... and no justification until we believe:

Romans

4:20 He [Abraham] staggered not at the promise of God through unbelief; but was strong in faith, giving glory to God;

21 And being fully persuaded that, what he had promised, he was able also to perform.

22 And therefore it was imputed to him for righteousness.

23 Now it was not written for his sake alone, that it [righteousness] was imputed to him;

24 But for us also, to whom it [righteousness] shall be imputed, if we believe on him that raised up Jesus our Lord from the dead;

25 Who was delivered for our offences, and was raised again for our justification.

5:1 Therefore being justified by faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ


READ YOUR BIBLE!!!

Being rendered Righteous by His Blood. Now what Paul means is that God has imputed Righteousness to everyone Christ has died for,

nope ... the Lord Jesus Christ died for all mankind

John 3:16-17 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life. For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved.


READ YOUR BIBLE!!!

No one Christ died shall ever see the Wrath of God !

I bet these guys will be glad to hear that ...

Revelation 20:15 And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire.


READ YOUR BIBLE!!!

So in light of this, if we are Justified before God at all, it was before our believing

Galatians 1:

6 I marvel that ye are so soon removed from him that called you into the grace of Christ unto another gospel:

7 Which is not another; but there be some that trouble you, and would pervert the gospel of Christ.

8 But though we, or an angel from heaven, preach any other gospel unto you than that which we have preached unto you, let him be accursed.

9 As we said before, so say I now again, If any man preach any other gospel unto you than that ye have received, let him be accursed.

for scripture never calls a Believer Ungodly, so we would be Justified before we believe or are called believers

What God says:

Romans 4:3-5 For what saith the scripture? Abraham believed God, and it was counted unto him for righteousness. Now to him that worketh is the reward not reckoned of grace, but of debt. But to him that worketh not, but believeth on him that justifieth the ungodly, his faith is counted for righteousness.


READ YOUR BIBLE!!!

Those who teach that Christ's Death alone does not satisfy God's Law and Justice for their Justification before God, but a subsequent work of the Spirit is needed or any type of application of it is needed to the ones Justified by Christ's Blood, they are liars and Antichrist ! Thats taking away from the Accomplishment of Christ's Blood alone !

You are espousing "another gospel".

You can't just rip Romans 4:25 out of God's Word in order to prop up your dogma ... that's improper workmanship.

Romans 4:

24 But for us also, to whom it shall be imputed, if we believe on him that raised up Jesus our Lord from the dead;

25 Who was delivered for our offences, and was raised again for our justification.


READ YOUR BIBLE!!!

Thats Justification by Faith !

Justification by faith is revealed in God's Word:

Romans 4:20-5:1

20 He [Abraham] staggered not at the promise of God through unbelief; but was strong in faith, giving glory to God;

21 And being fully persuaded that, what he had promised, he was able also to perform.

22 And therefore it was imputed to him for righteousness.

23 Now it was not written for his sake alone, that it was imputed to him;

24 But for us also, to whom it shall be imputed, if we believe on him that raised up Jesus our Lord from the dead;

25 Who was delivered for our offences, and was raised again for our justification.

5:1 Therefore being justified by faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ


READ YOUR BIBLE!!!

 

[riverhooks]

Who Justifieth the Ungodly

Rom 4:5

But to him that worketh not, but believeth on him that justifieth the ungodly, his faith is counted for righteousness.

Rom 5:6

For when we [The elect] were yet without strength, in due time Christ died for the ungodly.

These verses tells us something about the elect ! First that by nature we are ungodly, children of wrath as others..Eph 2:3

3Among whom also we all had our conversation in times past in the lusts of our flesh, fulfilling the desires of the flesh and of the mind; and were by nature the children of wrath, even as others.

Amen being children of wrath by nature as others is just another way of saying, that we were ungodly..

But one of the Great Gospel doctrines is described in Rom 4:5 is that God justifieth the ungodly..

Now , get this, The elect are Justified before God. by the obedience and righteousness of Jesus christ [Rom 5: 18-19] while we are dead in

tresspasses and sins, while we are by nature children of wrath even as others, and while by lifestyle, ungodly. While we the elect are in this very sinful condition, that we are Justified by Jesus christ blood and clothed in His imputed righteousness, even though we dont know it at the Time, but God knows it , because He is the one who did it..

Rom 8:33-34

33Who shall lay any thing to the charge of God's elect? It is God that justifieth.

34Who is he that condemneth? It is Christ that died, yea rather, that is risen again, who is even at the right hand of God, who also maketh intercession for us.

You see, most false teachers today think that Rom 8 :33 applies to post conversion, but it also applies to pre conversion, for God Justifieth the ungodly, before they are converted..

Thats why its of grace..Titus 3:7

That being justified by his grace, we should be made heirs according to the hope of eternal life.

Its by grace because of the sinful condtion we are in by nature when we are Justified before God..

Not being a Calvinist I see no reason to disagree with anything above . The only problem is when Scripture is used to limit the atonement to be exclusive for the elect and not for the sins of the whole world and to presume God over-rules free will because he sent a gospel which operates on God choosing some, enabling some, and not enabling others rather. Thereby becoming a respecter of persons namely his chosen.

 

[riverhooks]

Not being a Calvinist I see no reason to disagree with anything above . The only problem is when Scripture is used to limit the atonement to be exclusive for the elect and not for the sins of the whole world and to presume God over-rules free will because he sent a gospel which operates on God choosing some, enabling some, and not enabling others rather. Thereby becoming a respecter of persons namely his chosen.

 

[riverhooks]

Chill everyone...step back and take your meds...Lose the Caps

 

[riverhooks]

[

Chill everyone...step back and take your meds...Lose the Caps

 

[brightfame52]

Wrong. We have no peace with God until we are justified ... and no justification until we believe:

Romans

4:20 He [Abraham] staggered not at the promise of God through unbelief; but was strong in faith, giving glory to God;

21 And being fully persuaded that, what he had promised, he was able also to perform.

22 And therefore it was imputed to him for righteousness.

23 Now it was not written for his sake alone, that it [righteousness] was imputed to him;

24 But for us also, to whom it [righteousness] shall be imputed, if we believe on him that raised up Jesus our Lord from the dead;

25 Who was delivered for our offences, and was raised again for our justification.

5:1 Therefore being justified by faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ


READ YOUR BIBLE!!!





nope ... the Lord Jesus Christ died for all mankind

John 3:16-17 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life. For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved.


READ YOUR BIBLE!!!





I bet these guys will be glad to hear that ...

Revelation 20:15 And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire.


READ YOUR BIBLE!!!





Galatians 1:

6 I marvel that ye are so soon removed from him that called you into the grace of Christ unto another gospel:

7 Which is not another; but there be some that trouble you, and would pervert the gospel of Christ.

8 But though we, or an angel from heaven, preach any other gospel unto you than that which we have preached unto you, let him be accursed.

9 As we said before, so say I now again, If any man preach any other gospel unto you than that ye have received, let him be accursed.





What God says:

Romans 4:3-5 For what saith the scripture? Abraham believed God, and it was counted unto him for righteousness. Now to him that worketh is the reward not reckoned of grace, but of debt. But to him that worketh not, but believeth on him that justifieth the ungodly, his faith is counted for righteousness.


READ YOUR BIBLE!!!





You are espousing "another gospel".

You can't just rip Romans 4:25 out of God's Word in order to prop up your dogma ... that's improper workmanship.

Romans 4:

24 But for us also, to whom it shall be imputed, if we believe on him that raised up Jesus our Lord from the dead;

25 Who was delivered for our offences, and was raised again for our justification.


READ YOUR BIBLE!!!






Justification by faith is revealed in God's Word:

Romans 4:20-5:1

20 He [Abraham] staggered not at the promise of God through unbelief; but was strong in faith, giving glory to God;

21 And being fully persuaded that, what he had promised, he was able also to perform.

22 And therefore it was imputed to him for righteousness.

23 Now it was not written for his sake alone, that it was imputed to him;

24 But for us also, to whom it shall be imputed, if we believe on him that raised up Jesus our Lord from the dead;

25 Who was delivered for our offences, and was raised again for our justification.

5:1 Therefore being justified by faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ


READ YOUR BIBLE!!!

You prove you are being adversarial to Gods Truth.

 

[brightfame52]

Not being a Calvinist I see no reason to disagree with anything above . The only problem is when Scripture is used to limit the atonement to be exclusive for the elect and not for the sins of the whole world and to presume God over-rules free will because he sent a gospel which operates on God choosing some, enabling some, and not enabling others rather. Thereby becoming a respecter of persons namely his chosen.

You not paying attention to what Im testifying to with scripture.

 

[riverhooks]

You not paying attention to what Im testifying to with scripture.

Probably not

 

[riverhooks]

When justified by faith we have peace with God . Ok .

 

[riverhooks]

When one is Justified by Faith in time, it is when God has made known to them the Mystery of His Will or Decree of their Eternal Justification, it is then they are being made consciously aware of God's Justifying sentence, that was from Eternity due to His Eternal Purpose in Christ Eph 3:11 and that Eternal Compact or Agreement in the Everlasting Covenant between the Father and Son, the Spirit bearing witness, for God makes the Covenant known to Spiritual Faith 2 Sam 23:5

Although my house be not so with God; yet he hath made with me an everlasting covenant, ordered in all things, and sure: for this is all my salvation, and all my desire, although he make it not to grow.

Ps 25:14

14 The secret of the Lord is with them that fear him; and he will shew them his covenant.

So being Justified by Faith in Time is nothing less than being made known to us our Eternal Interest in God's Eternal Covenant with His Son, and our interest in the Blood of the Everlasting Covenant Heb 13:20, and this was before being revealed to us a Mystery of God's Will Eph 1:7-981

7 In whom we have redemption through his blood, the forgiveness of sins, according to the riches of his grace;

8 Wherein he hath abounded toward us in all wisdom and prudence;

9 Having made known unto us the mystery of his will, according to his good pleasure which he hath purposed in himself:

Thats Justification by Faith !

Well , I would say . No it's not.
When one is Justified by Faith in time, it is when God has made known to them the Mystery of His Will or Decree of their Eternal Justification, it is then they are being made consciously aware of God's Justifying sentence, that was from Eternity due to His Eternal Purpose in Christ Eph 3:11 and that Eternal Compact or Agreement in the Everlasting Covenant between the Father and Son, the Spirit bearing witness, for God makes the Covenant known to Spiritual Faith 2 Sam 23:5 That is a pretty complex statement that departs from the simplicity of the Gospel. It is supposed to be simple . Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ and you shall be saved. It is not by knowledge of be conscious of anything except that you have sinned God and has laid His hand upon your life. It is a revelation of alienation from God and a convincing of the need reconcilation by the ministry of the Holy Spirit . It is not knowing mysterys or anything else . It is repent and be converted that your sins my be blotted out.

 

[brightfame52]

Christ Resurrection and Justification !


Rom 4:25

25 Who was delivered for our offences, and was raised again for our justification.

Justification by or at the resurrection of Jesus Christ, those who are most ignorant of the accomplishment of Christ's Death, that it did in fact Justify those He died for, they are guilty of denying the very witness of the Resurrection of Christ ! Let me explain, The Life and Death of Christ has fulfilled God's Law in its entirety, all of its Holy Requirements, Obedience to all of its precepts, and even Death for its Transgression, so all for whom He died is Justified by His Death ! Isa 53:11

11 He shall see of the travail of his soul, and shall be satisfied: by his knowledge shall my righteous servant justify many; for he shall bear their iniquities.

Now what does knowledge here mean in context of the subject of the verse ? Many believe that it refers to the knowledge of the one being Justified by Christ's Death, their Faith ! Even though I can see that, yet the verse says by His Knowledge, that is by the Knowledge of the Righteous Servant shall He Justify many ! This Knowledge must be connected somehow to His Death. The word for knowledge here is the Hebrew Word da`ath and means:


knowledge

a) knowledge, perception, skill

b) discernment, understanding, wisdom

This word is derived from the Hebrew Word yada which means:


to know by experience

So its by His experience with Death or by His Tasting of Death Heb 2:9

9 But we see Jesus, who was made a little lower than the angels for the suffering of death, crowned with glory and honour; that he by the grace of God should taste death for every man.

The word taste here is the greek word geuomai and means:


to taste, to try the flavour of

2) to taste

a) i.e. perceive the flavour of, partake of, enjoy

b) to feel, make trial of, experience

3) to take food, eat, to take nourishment, eat

So by His Experiencing Death, experiencing its flavor, by it He Justified many, because He bare their sin, again pointing to His Death !

GWT He will see and be satisfied because of his suffering. My righteous servant will acquit many people because of what he has learned [through suffering]. He will carry their sins as a burden.

This Translation compares to what the Writer of Hebrews Wrote here Heb 5:8

8 Though he were a Son, yet learned he obedience by the things which he suffered;

The word learned here means:

to learn, be apprised

a) to increase one's knowledge, to be increased in knowledge

b) to hear, be informed

c) to learn by use and practice

1) to be in the habit of, accustomed to

So, Isa 53:11 is a clear proclamation that the Death of Christ alone, made those whom sins He bare Justified before God !

And so their Justification here is not their Justification by Faith, which will occur at a later time,because the promise is " The Just [or Justified] shall live by Faith.

Now that we know from scripture that we were Justified by His Death, that is what His Resurrection Proves Rom 4:25

25 Who was delivered for our offences [ He bare our Sins Isa 53:11], and was raised again for[Because of ] our justification.

The Resurrection of Christ is God's Testimony public ally that those Christ died for, bare their sins, that they were Justified, and faith shall later receive the Testimony of God !

So to say that one for whom Christ died was not solely Justified before God by Christ's Death, is to Call God a Liar and the Resurrection a Liar !

 

[brightfame52]

Well , I would say . No it's not.
When one is Justified by Faith in time, it is when God has made known to them the Mystery of His Will or Decree of their Eternal Justification, it is then they are being made consciously aware of God's Justifying sentence, that was from Eternity due to His Eternal Purpose in Christ Eph 3:11 and that Eternal Compact or Agreement in the Everlasting Covenant between the Father and Son, the Spirit bearing witness, for God makes the Covenant known to Spiritual Faith 2 Sam 23:5 That is a pretty complex statement that departs from the simplicity of the Gospel. It is supposed to be simple . Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ and you shall be saved. It is not by knowledge of be conscious of anything except that you have sinned God and has laid His hand upon your life. It is a revelation of alienation from God and a convincing of the need reconcilation by the ministry of the Holy Spirit . It is not knowing mysterys or anything else . It is repent and be converted that your sins my be blotted out.

You not listening to me oh well.

 

[reneweddaybyday]

So its by His experience with Death or by His Tasting of Death Heb 2:9

9 But we see Jesus, who was made a little lower than the angels for the suffering of death, crowned with glory and honour; that he by the grace of God should taste death for every man.

So to say that one for whom Christ died was not solely Justified before God by Christ's Death, is to Call God a Liar and the Resurrection a Liar !

READ YOUR BIBLE!!!

 

[brightfame52]

READ YOUR BIBLE!!!

Do you understand the post ?

 

[brightfame52]

More on Justification Rom 8:30

Rom 8:30

30 Moreover whom he did predestinate, them he also called: and whom he called, them he also justified: and whom he justified, them he also glorified.

Those here in this context that God calls, its an effectual call, and all those thus called are Justified, no exceptions, this Justification that follows the call in time is making known Justification by the revealing of imputed Righteousness by the Gospel Rom 1:16-17, its when the called receives by faith a consciousness of the imputed obedience and satisfaction of Christ unto them as their Righteousness. They now receive and rest on Christ and His Righteousness revealed, by Faith, which faith they have not of themselves, this faith is also the Gift of God, Phil 1:29, Yes this faith accompanies Salvation Heb 6:9

9 But, beloved, we are persuaded better things of you, and things that accompany salvation, though we thus speak.

 

[brightfame52]

Believeth on Him that Justifies the Ungodly !

Rom 4:5

5 But to him that worketh not, but believeth on him that justifieth the ungodly, his faith is counted for righteousness.

The fact of the matter is this, ones believing [active] is the fruit of God's Justifying. Lets look at Acts 13:38-39

38 Be it known unto you therefore, men and brethren, that through this man is preached unto you the forgiveness of sins:

39 And by him all that believe are justified from all things, from which ye could not be justified by the law of Moses.84

In Vs 39 lets understand, Now all that by Him [ His Cross Work] all that believe, which in the greek is a present active participle, which means "is believing" they are in a present state of believing [ see also Jn 3:16 believe there in greek] are Justified, which word is present passive indicative which means: are being Justified, So everyone believing is Justified, by this here Paul gives us the results of being Justified, for a person cannot be Justified by his faith which is active, while Justification before God is passive, so conclusion, mans active Faith or believing is the fruit of or result of being Justified ! God was Justifying them while Ungodly, not while they were believing. For when one is believing, he is not being ungodly but pleasing God !

 

[brightfame52]

Rom 8:33

33 Who shall lay any thing to the charge of God's elect? It is God that justifieth.

Paul here means non imputation as in Rom 4:7-8

7 Saying, Blessed are they whose iniquities are forgiven, and whose sins are covered.

8 Blessed is the man to whom the Lord will not impute or sin or lay sin to his charge.

Rom 8:33 says that one is Justified !

Now if God justifies the elect legally because of non imputation of sin, and Justification also means to be declared righteous; then it stands to reason that at the same hour of non imputation, there was imputation of Christ's Righteousness, since God must first see us as Righteous legally in order to declare us Righteous legally, which Righteousness is not our own Rom 4:6-8 !

For Christ's Righteousness is ever before God's Law and Justice on behalf of The chosen ones; and this Righteousness is objective Righteousness, for its based entirely from without the Elect, they are not even born again, its solely based upon the Perfect Work of Christ !

Note: Christ's Righteousness became the Elects Righteousness by imputation when their sins became His by imputation !

 

[brightfame52]

What is application of Justification ?

Many today, false teachers, hath willfully mistaken Justification before God from ones sins by non imputation, and instead they were imputed to Christ, for non imputation automatically means imputation to Christ 2 Cor 5:19-21


19 To wit, that God was in Christ, reconciling the world unto himself, not imputing their trespasses unto them; and hath committed unto us the word of reconciliation.

20 Now then we are ambassadors for Christ, as though God did beseech you by us: we pray you in Christ's stead, be ye reconciled to God.

21 For he hath made him to be sin for us, who knew no sin; that we might be made the righteousness of God in him.

Now when we come to believe by faith that our sins were laid upon Christ, its not the same time as when our sins were laid upon Him. For God before we believed, had already imputed our sins on Christ, first He did in His Eternal Purpose Rev 13:8


8 And all that dwell upon the earth shall worship him, whose names are not written in the book of life of the Lamb slain [In God's Purpose] from the foundation of the world.

Now if Christ was slain in God's Purpose from the foundation of the world, then it was that He was slain for the sins of those sins that had been imputed to Him from the foundation of the world ! Also see 1 Pet 1:20

Secondly, in time at the Cross of Christ when the Father did forsake Him because of our sins imputed.

Now faith is that which embraces the Truth of the Gospel of ones Salvation, if indeed it is God given Faith. The word of Truth informs us of a past transaction of imputation 2 Cor 5:19-21 which faith embraces, faith looks to things already a reality in the Mind of God and the Purpose of God, of when the transaction took place, whether in the compact agreement in the everlasting covenant and or at the actual in time event at the Cross when the Father for the first time forsook His Son for sin imputed;

It was then that God hath done His act of imputing our sin to Christ; However it is not until in time, and in our own personal temporal history, by the Grace of God, do we believe after having revealed to us, this eternal transaction Ps 25:14, which at believing has been made manifest, and becomes the application of the blessing to our consciousness and brings us experimental peace, knowing that God has been made peace with us by the Blood of His Cross ! Col 1:20

And, having made peace[for us] through the blood of his cross, by him to reconcile all things unto himself; by him, I say, whether they be things in earth, or things in heaven.

 

[brightfame52]

The matter of the Elects Justification before God, it had nothing to do with anything they did, and to say or imply otherwise is a false gospel ! Now Paul did demonstrate how the elect or those Christ died for [ the same] are Justified or declared Righteous by a comparing of Adam and Jesus Christ, that is Adam's disobedience and Christ's obedience i.e Phil 2:8; Heb 5:8 ,now lets read Rom 5:19

19 For as by one man's disobedience many were made sinners, so[likewise] by the obedience of one shall many be made righteous.

Now Paul teaches here in this verse and in this context that Adam's disobedience was the cause of the elect sinning, that very sin of Adam being charged or imputed to the Elect as they were in Union with him, and that also without any personal or actual sin of their own or their own volition or freewill, but yet in God's Reckoning the Elect became sinners !

Now the word so a adverb houtō(s) which means = in this manner, thus, so

The obedience of Christ [alone] in offering himself [Heb 10:10,14] a sacrifice [ 1 Cor 5:7] for their sins, and so by doing, giving satisfaction to God's law and Justice against their sins, in obedience to God's will and command Jn 10:17-18


17 Therefore doth my Father love me, because I lay down my life, that I might take it again.

18 No man taketh it from me, but I lay it down of myself. I have power to lay it down, and I have power to take it again. This commandment have I received of my Father.

Now it [ Christ's obedient Offering alone] became the cause of Righteousness imputed to them, as they were in Union with Christ, without any personal obedience of theirs, such as faith, repentance added to it, and by that, the Elect are made Righteous and Justified in God's Reckoning !87

Now any teaching on this matter of the Elects Justification before God, that fails to adhere to this rule Paul hath demonstrated via Adam and Christ Headship, it is a false teaching ! To add an act of obedience by the person made Righteous or Justified, is a false teaching and condemned by God !