Who was Elihu?

[ewq1938]

Job 7:12 Am I a sea, or a whale, that thou settest a watch over me?
Job 7:13 When I say, My bed shall comfort me, my couch shall ease my complaint;
Job 7:14 Then thou scarest me with dreams, and terrifiest me through visions:
Job 7:15 So that my soul chooseth strangling, and death rather than my life.

More accusations against God.

Job 7:16 I loathe it; I would not live alway: let me alone; for my days are vanity.
Job 7:17 What is man, that thou shouldest magnify him? and that thou shouldest set thine heart upon him?
Job 7:18 And that thou shouldest visit him every morning, and try him every moment?
Job 7:19 How long wilt thou not depart from me, nor let me alone till I swallow down my spittle?
Job 7:20 I have sinned; what shall I do unto thee, O thou preserver of men? why hast thou set me as a mark against thee, so that I am a burden to myself?

More accusations against God.


Job 9:13 If God will not withdraw his anger, the proud helpers do stoop under him.
Job 9:14 How much less shall I answer him, and choose out my words to reason with him?
Job 9:15 Whom, though I were righteous, yet would I not answer, but I would make supplication to my judge.
Job 9:16 If I had called, and he had answered me; yet would I not believe that he had hearkened unto my voice.
Job 9:17 For he breaketh me with a tempest, and multiplieth my wounds without cause.


Here Job accuses God of doing terrible things to him without cause meaning Job thinks he doesn't deserve this and God is responsible.

 

[ewq1938]

Job 9:18 He will not suffer me to take my breath, but filleth me with bitterness.
Job 9:19 If I speak of strength, lo, he is strong: and if of judgment, who shall set me a time to plead?
Job 9:20 If I justify myself, mine own mouth shall condemn me: if I say, I am perfect, it shall also prove me perverse.
Job 9:21 Though I were perfect, yet would I not know my soul: I would despise my life.


More accusations against God.




Job 9:22 This is one thing, therefore I said it, He destroyeth the perfect and the wicked.

“God destroys the innocent along with the guilty.”

Job 9:23 If the scourge slay suddenly, he will laugh at the trial of the innocent.
Job 9:24 The earth is given into the hand of the wicked: he covereth the faces of the judges thereof; if not, where, and who is he?

“When a good person dies a sudden death, God sits back and laughs.
And who else but God blindfolds the judges, then lets the wicked take over the earth?“


WOAH! Verse 23 is quite a statement by Job! That if a man should die accidentally while being punished, that God would laugh at the trial of an innocent man. This means that Job feels God is unjust and cruel!

 

[ewq1938]

Job 10:1 My soul is weary of my life; I will leave my complaint upon myself; I will speak in the bitterness of my soul.


Again, he repeats his statement in chapter 7. He will not be silent about how he feels about what he thinks God is doing to him.


Job 10:2 I will say unto God, Do not condemn me; shew me wherefore thou contendest with me.
Job 10:3 Is it good unto thee that thou shouldest oppress, that thou shouldest despise the work of thine hands, and shine upon the counsel of the wicked?


“Why do you, God, take such delight in hating your children, and in blessing sinners?”

 

[ewq1938]

Job 10:4 Hast thou eyes of flesh? or seest thou as man seeth?
Job 10:5 Are thy days as the days of man? are thy years as man's days,
Job 10:6 That thou enquirest after mine iniquity, and searchest after my sin?


“Do you look at things the way we humans do? Is your life as short as ours? Is that why you are so quick to find fault with me?”



Ouch! Job is really digging himself a deep hole. Here he actually questions Gods right to judge man because God is not flesh and it’s implied that therefore God can’t understand what its like to live in the flesh. Yet, God can understand us, and could even before Christ was born in the flesh. God has the right to judge flesh man, and always has.

 

[ewq1938]

There's a lot more awful things Job will say about God but I'll end with this:

Job 19:6 Know now that God hath overthrown me, and hath compassed me with his net.
Job 19:7 Behold, I cry out of wrong, but I am not heard: I cry aloud, but there is no judgment.
Job 19:8 He hath fenced up my way that I cannot pass, and he hath set darkness in my paths.
Job 19:9 He hath stripped me of my glory, and taken the crown from my head.
Job 19:10 He hath destroyed me on every side, and I am gone: and mine hope hath he removed like a tree.
Job 19:11 He hath also kindled his wrath against me, and he counteth me unto him as one of his enemies.
Job 19:12 His troops come together, and raise up their way against me, and encamp round about my tabernacle.
Job 19:13 He hath put my brethren far from me, and mine acquaintance are verily estranged from me.
Job 19:14 My kinsfolk have failed, and my familiar friends have forgotten me.
Job 19:15 They that dwell in mine house, and my maids, count me for a stranger: I am an alien in their sight.
Job 19:16 I called my servant, and he gave me no answer; I intreated him with my mouth.
Job 19:17 My breath is strange to my wife, though I intreated for the children's sake of mine own body.
Job 19:18 Yea, young children despised me; I arose, and they spake against me.
Job 19:19 All my inward friends abhorred me: and they whom I loved are turned against me.
Job 19:20 My bone cleaveth to my skin and to my flesh, and I am escaped with the skin of my teeth.
Job 19:21 Have pity upon me, have pity upon me, O ye my friends; for the hand of God hath touched me.
Job 19:22 Why do ye persecute me as God, and are not satisfied with my flesh?
Job 19:23 Oh that my words were now written! oh that they were printed in a book!
Job 19:24 That they were graven with an iron pen and lead in the rock for ever!


Here is quite a long rant against God and what Job believes God has done to him unjustly. Ironic how his last words would very much come to pass, being written in a book to his eventual shame and for a lesson to us.

 

[posthuman]

Since I actually quoted Elihu's false statements directly from the Bible, you do not have a leg to stand on. Calling Job a hypocrite was untrue, and accusing him of wickedness was wrong. That was bearing false witness. A sin.

you might want to read the context. IMO you're butchering the text in order to bring accusations against Elihu, as i took some pains to explain earlier today.

since you're repeating the particular falsehood that Elihu called Job an hypocrite, and i didn't put the context earlier, let me go ahead and do that now, so we can all see it and have no excuse not to know what's been written:

Behold, God is mighty, but despises no one;​

He is mighty in strength of understanding.​

He does not preserve the life of the wicked,​

But gives justice to the oppressed.​

He does not withdraw His eyes from the righteous;​

But they are on the throne with kings,​

For He has seated them forever,​

And they are exalted.​

And if they are bound in fetters,​

Held in the cords of affliction,​

Then He tells them their work and their transgressions —​

That they have acted defiantly.​

He also opens their ear to instruction,​

And commands that they turn from iniquity.​

If they obey and serve Him,​

They shall spend their days in prosperity,​

And their years in pleasures.​

But if they do not obey,​

They shall perish by the sword,​

And they shall die without knowledge.​

But the hypocrites in heart store up wrath;​

They do not cry for help when He binds them.​

They die in youth,​

And their life ends among the perverted persons.​

He delivers the poor in their affliction,​

And opens their ears in oppression.​

(Job 36:5-15)​

​

now, it seems to me that Elihu is very obviously speaking of God's righteousness and of men in general, not accusing Job of any of these specific things. Elihu's entire premise is that God is just and men ought to fear Him, walking humbly, rather than demanding explanations and accounts from Him.

so let's look at the specific things Elihu says about 'hypocrites in heart' and see if any of that applies to Job:

• they do not cry for help
• they die in their youth
• they end their life among the perverse

does Elihu say Job never cries for help? nope, Elihu doesn't say that, and for 30 chapters before Elihu opens his mouth, he's been listening to Job crying for help -- in fact ((as previously discussed)) Elihu offers to be that help, that daysman, to Job. so clearly Elihu does not associate 'they do not cry for help' with Job.

does Elihu say Job dies in his youth? nope. preposterous! Elihu begins his dialogue by noting how that he himself is a youth and that Job & his friends have his respect as elders.

does Elihu think Job is hanging out with pagan male shrine prostitutes?? ((that's the literal meaning of this word))
again, a resounding NOPE. Job has been sitting all by himself in an ash heap when his three friends come along. is Elihu calling these men homosexual prostitutes??? no! that's ridiculous!

which part of this section of Elihu's dialogue actually applies to Job? verse 15 -- that God delivers the poor in their affliction. what else? vv. 7-10 -- that God does not take His eyes from the righteous, but that if they are bound with affliction ((as Job is -- note that Elihu emphatically does not agree with Job's friends false views that the righteous never suffer)), God shows them their work and their transgression: that they have acted defiantly. please recall now what God's message to Job is out of the whirlwind, and Job's response: that Job has been defiant, ignorantly. Job 100% agrees with God on this point and claps his hand over his mouth, mollified. please note this too, especially you @UnoiAmarah because it appears to be your hang-up: Elihu says that the righteous may be afflicted by God in order to teach them and correct their defiance. God says Job is upright, and God says Job has been defiant. it is therefore not the case that a man who speaks defiantly in ignorance cannot be considered upright and righteous by God. God reproves Job for 3 chapters, and still says, Job has spoken what is right about Him. it is false to say that Job cannot possibly be in error. is it not written that Job himself says, "I have uttered things which i did not understand" ?? ch. 42 v. 3



@Nehemiah6 you said this truly: bearing false witness is sin.

i'm not trying to be mean or to act like some know-it-all. i just happen to have devoted several months of this year to studying Elihu and listening to some 30+ various preachers give their own dialogues on him. all these spurious, contextless, misrepresentative arguments, i have heard previously, and given much thought to -- tho i suspect you yourself are only repeating what you have been taught, without having searched the scripture to see if it is true. i don't hold you to blame for that, but i urge you to study what's actually in this book and see for yourself. that's why i am posting many verses of it -- i would post all 42 chapters and write 10,000 words if it would help you.

 

[posthuman]

Job 6:24 Teach me, and I will hold my tongue: and cause me to understand wherein I have erred.

now that's interesting. and Job holds his tongue after Elihu speaks, but does not refrain himself from answering all his friends in turn!

 

[posthuman]

Even so would he have removed thee out of the strait into a broad place, where there is no straitness; and that which should be set on thy table should be full of fatness. But thou hast fulfilled the judgment of the wicked: judgment and justice take hold on thee. Because there is wrath, beware lest he take thee away with his stroke: then a great ransom cannot deliver thee.

↑ that's Job 36:16-18, KJV. i hope everyone "forgives me" for quoting NKJV. if there's some material difference in translation please call it to our attention for discussion

this isn't Elihu calling Job wicked. this is Elihu making the accurate statement that the judgement due to the wicked has befallen Job. Job's friends presume this means Job is wicked; Elihu does not make that spurious accusation.

read the rest of the chapter. Elihu cautions Job not to fall into iniquity ((tacitly affirming that Job has not fallen into iniquity)) and remarks, who teaches like God? who can bring a charge against Him? reminding Job that thinking to demand an account from God or boasting that you are being unfairly treated by God is vain ((Job 36:20-26)) --- messages that the LORD Himself reinforces when He answers Job from the whirlwind.

 

[stepbystep]

a figure like Elijah, like John, in that his intent is to prepare the way for God and to turn their hearts toward Him --- but the Bible isn't a book of reincarnation.

Yes, thank you. I reread my comment and realized I left out "like". My bad.

 

[posthuman]

Yes, thank you. I reread my comment and realized I left out "like". My bad.

"how good and pleasant when brothers dwell together in unity" ♥