Who Were The Jusaizers? Are You One? Do You Know Anybody That Is?

[Least]

"Judaizer" is Paul's word.


First, these regulation were not Paul's.

Secondly, abstinence from food sacrificed to idols and strangled meat were temporary concessions to the Christian Jews in Antioch, Syria and Silicia for the sake of harmony in the Christian fellowship with Gentiles.

These concessions were later removed (1Co 10:25; 1Tim 4:4-5; Ro 14:14, 17, 20).


Previously addressed.

I have to wonder where you got the idea that the commandments to abstain from meat sacrificed to idols and fornication were temporary commandments for the sake of "harmony."

Paul gave so many warnings about false doctrines, false teachers, or wolves. That I have serious doubts that he would have stood for those commandments being given if he thought that they would lead to some sort of deception.

The Apostles were not man pleasers.

Acts 5:28 Saying, Did not we straitly command you that ye should not teach in this name? and, behold, ye have filled Jerusalem with your doctrine, and intend to bring this man's blood upon us.
Acts 5:29 Then Peter and the other apostles answered and said, We ought to obey God rather than men.

And the 2nd chapter of revelation goes further into the very two laws that were given in Acts 15.

Revelation 2:14 But I have a few things against thee, because thou hast there them that hold the doctrine of Balaam, who taught Balac to cast a stumblingblock before the children of Israel, to eat things sacrificed unto idols, and to commit fornication.

This is just one verse from the chapter. The entire chapter of Rev 2 covers it, addressing three of the churches.

 

[Hizikyah]

You better rip Romans 3 out of your Bible:

Romans 3:31, "Are we then doing away with the Law through the faith? By no means! Rather, we establish the Law!"

the word Law is: 3551. nomos
nomos: that which is assigned, hence usage, law
Original Word: νόμος, ου, ὁ
Part of Speech: Noun, Masculine
Transliteration: nomos
Phonetic Spelling: (nom'-os)
Short Definition: a law, the Mosaic Law

Again, you are taking this verse out of context.

Verse 27 states clearly what law Paul is referring to and it is not the Mosaic law.
Verse 28 states we are saved by grace and not by the works of the law.
Verse 30 Paul states the circumcised (those kept the Mosaic law) and the uncircumcised (gentiles not keeping the mosaic law) are both justified. This alone nullifies the Mosaic law in that if you do not keep one of the Mosaic laws, you are condemned by the rest)

Just because the NT mentions the word "law" does not automatically mean Mosaic law! (see 1Cor. 9:21 for proof)

So in 1Cor. 9:21 Shaul literally says "the Law of Yahweh"

According to Yahweh, the "Law of Mosheh" is Yahweh's Law:

Malakyah 4:1-4,"For, behold, the day comes that will burn like an oven; and all the proud, yes, and all who do wickedly, will be stubble--the day that comes will burn them up, says Yahweh of hosts; and it will leave them neither root nor branch. But for you who reverence My Name, the light of righteousness will arise with healing in its wings; and you will go out, leaping like calves released from the stall. And you will tread down the wicked; for they will be ashes under the soles of your feet in the day that I will do this, says Yahweh of hosts. Remember the Law of Mosheh My servant, which I commanded through him in Horeb for all Israyl, with the statutes and judgments."

And for Romans 3, it is clear what Shaul is saying, none are justified by Law but justified by mercy through Yahshua's blood, but do we then do away with the Law because we have faith in this? NO We follow the Law.

27Where then is boasting? It is excluded. By what kind of law? Of works? No, but by a law of faith. 28For we maintain that a man is justified by faith apart from works of the Law. 29Or is God the God of Jews only? Is He not the God of Gentiles also? Yes, of Gentiles also, 30since indeed God who will justify the circumcised by faith and the uncircumcised through faith is one. 31Do we then nullify the Law through faith? May it never be! On the contrary, we establish the Law.

 

[Elin]

Then Shaul himself is guilty of that,

"Judaize" is Paul's word (Gal 2:14).

because in Acts 15 those were "OT" principles.

First, these regulation were not made by Paul.

Secondly, abstinence from food sacrificed to idols and strangled meat
were temporary concessions to the Christian Jews in Antioch, Syria and Silicia for the sake of harmony in the Christian fellowship with Gentiles.

These concessions were later removed (1Co 10:25; 1Tim 4:4-5; Ro 14:14, 17, 20).

and Messiah is one of those too then:

Previously addressed.

I have to wonder where you got the idea that the commandments to abstain from meat sacrificed to idols and fornication
were temporary commandments for the sake of "harmony."

See my post above.

Paul gave so many warnings about false doctrines, false teachers, or wolves. That
I have serious doubts that he would have stood for those commandments being given if he thought that they would lead to some sort of deception.

Agreed. . .they didn't lead to any deception.

What leads to deception is false hermeneutics to support one's false theology.

So you're saying you don't believe the word of God in Ac 15:22, 25, 29?

The Apostles were not man pleasers.

Previously addressed.

 

[RedTent]

I joined CC last October 2013 and before joining I had never heard the word Judaizer, but shortly after making a few posts I was labeled as one. I had no idea what it was all I knew was that I observed a 7th day Sabbath and believed in God's 10 Commandments. I know that we are saved by the blood of Jesus and His grace and mercy. But others don't seem to ever hear me when I say that. I know I will never be able to earn my way to heaven, but I also know that God says if You love me keep my commandments.

I also up until a short time ago had never heard of the Hebrew Roots Movement and have been accused of that also... So how can I be either one of these labeled things if I never knew about either until I joined this site... I also have to say that I try not to label anyone any kind of name, because I would hope that we are all seeking to know the truth and wanting to get closer to Jesus/God/Holy Spirit. I was kind of taken aback the first time I was called a name and had no idea that someone would say I was legalistic for wanting to obey Gods 10 commandments. Thanks for this thread.

I joined cc after several years studying OT with a class called "Torahclass", a class that says it is teaching Torah as a root of Christ. The class promises not to teach scripture from any human viewpoint but only scripture. If there is a question, the instructor gives all the different interpretations, saying scripture isn't clear. Each teaching of the OT is taken to how Christ fulfilled it.

If any of my postings reflected this, giving value to OT teachings as what Christ fulfilled, the outcry on cc was very loud. I was called a demon, besides Hebrew Roots Movement, Judaizer, teacher of the law to save---the entire works. I've been told by a sincere Christian teacher I must never post anything on cc again, that no one takes anything I say seriously.

The class I am taking is very popular, even Amazon sells their classes, yet most of the people on cc would go on and on about this very in depth OT study. Christ is the focus of the class, yet cc members say such is of the devil! It makes you wonder.

 

[Karraster]

I joined cc after several years studying OT with a class called "Torahclass", a class that says it is teaching Torah as a root of Christ. The class promises not to teach scripture from any human viewpoint but only scripture. If there is a question, the instructor gives all the different interpretations, saying scripture isn't clear. Each teaching of the OT is taken to how Christ fulfilled it.

If any of my postings reflected this, giving value to OT teachings as what Christ fulfilled, the outcry on cc was very loud. I was called a demon, besides Hebrew Roots Movement, Judaizer, teacher of the law to save---the entire works. I've been told by a sincere Christian teacher I must never post anything on cc again, that no one takes anything I say seriously.

The class I am taking is very popular, even Amazon sells their classes, yet most of the people on cc would go on and on about this very in depth OT study. Christ is the focus of the class, yet cc members say such is of the devil! It makes you wonder.

It just makes sense to me, that to understand Hebrew writings in a Hebrew culture by Hebrews, it might be a bit helpful to understand things Hebrew.

I've witnessed the attacks against you, even had a few myself. Some are not here to learn, but to scoff. It will only get worse as the last day approaches.

Stay strong sister. Tho some will mock, there are some who benefit from your studies.

 

[RedTent]

It just makes sense to me, that to understand Hebrew writings in a Hebrew culture by Hebrews, it might be a bit helpful to understand things Hebrew.

I've witnessed the attacks against you, even had a few myself. Some are not here to learn, but to scoff. It will only get worse as the last day approaches.

Stay strong sister. Tho some will mock, there are some who benefit from your studies.

You bring tears of relief to my eyes!!!

 

[Karraster]

You bring tears of relief to my eyes!!!

I have learned so much from you, as you pointed to scripture, I looked, and it was there. Just hadn't had my eyes open to see it yet. So hang in there, as I can testify you make a difference!

 

[Veritas]

The first use of the word was in Gal 2:14, and it meant "to live as do the Jews."

Which Jews are being referenced here in Rev.2:9 "I know thy works, and tribulation, and poverty, (but thou art rich) and I know the blasphemy of them which say they are Jews, and are not, but are the synagogue of Satan."

 

[Elin]

Which Jews are being referenced here in Rev.2:9 "I know thy works, and tribulation, and poverty, (but thou art rich) and I know the blasphemy of them which say they are Jews, and are not, but are the synagogue of Satan."

That would be those of Ro 2:28-29 still in Judaism rejecting Christ, who were not circumcised in heart,
therefore, were not really the people of God (Jews), which made them the synagogue of Satan.

"To live as do the Jews" refers to obeying the food laws, etc. by Jewish professing Christians.

 

[Karraster]

That would be those of Ro 2:28-29 still in Judaism rejecting Christ, who were not circumcised in heart,
therefore, were not really the people of God (Jews), which made them the synagogue of Satan.

"To live as do the Jews" refers to obeying the food laws, etc. by Jewish professing Christians.

Did Jesus obey the "food laws"?? Was Jesus a Judaizer?

 

[ProphetExcalibur]

Did Jesus obey the "food laws"?? Was Jesus a Judaizer?

How cute! How are you Karraster?
Sure He did, He came to fulfill the Law and the Prophets!

so no He was not a Judaiser!
much love

 

[Elin]

Did Jesus obey the "food laws"?? Was Jesus a Judaizer?

You can't be a Judaizer until after the death of Christ.

 

[Karraster]

funny how you 2 are so much alike. if I didn't know better, I'd think you were the same person now that's cute!

 

[Elin]

funny how you 2 are so much alike. if I didn't know better, I'd think you were the same person now that's cute!

Do you mean Prophet and me?

Wherever any of the the word of God is rightly understood,
it is not surprising when all sound alike.
After all, they have the same understanding.

 

[danschance]

Was Jesus a Judaizer?

As Elin said, No Judaizers before the death of Christ. She is 100% correct. Christianity did not come into being until after the death of Christ and that is when the Judaizers came into being as they insisted Gentile believers should be circumcised. The book of Galatians, written by apostle Paul was against the teachings of the Judaizers who tried to blend the Mosaic laws with the Gospel of grace.

 

[Hizikyah]

As Elin said, No Judaizers before the death of Christ. She is 100% correct. Christianity did not come into being until after the death of Christ and that is when the Judaizers came into being as they insisted Gentile believers should be circumcised. The book of Galatians, written by apostle Paul was against the teachings of the Judaizers who tried to blend the Mosaic laws with the Gospel of grace.

Judaisim was in effect at least as far back as exile in Babylon. Thing is most call Yahweh;s Law "Judaisim" when Judaisim is the Talmud.

Mattithyah 15:2-3, "Why do Your disciples transgress the traditions of the elders? For they do not wash their hands when they eat. But He answered, and said to them:And why do you transgress the Laws of Yahweh by your traditions?"

 

[Hizikyah]

You can't be a Judaizer until after the death of Christ.

Lets break this down

Mattithyah 5:17, "Do not even think that I have come to destroy the Law or the prophets; I have not come to destroy them, but to fulfill them."

First off twice in this one verse Yahshua says He “did not come to destroy the Law or the Prophets.”

He said He came to “fulfill them.”

Lets let scripture interpret scripture –

Yahshua knew satan would beguile many into a false interpretation of these words of His, this is why HE said IN THE NEXT SENTENCE:

Mattithyah 5:18, "For truly I say to you; Unless heaven and earth passes away, one yodh--the smallest of the letters--will in no way pass from the Law, until all things are perfected."

Has "heaven and earth passed away?".......A quick look out the window shows us no heaven and earth did not pass away.

Have "all things been perfected?".........Still sin and death in the world, so no all things have not been perfected.

So there are 2 things that Messiah says will happen before ANYTHING is taken from Yahweh's Law...NEITHER has happened.

 

[RedTent]

As Elin said, No Judaizers before the death of Christ. She is 100% correct. Christianity did not come into being until after the death of Christ and that is when the Judaizers came into being as they insisted Gentile believers should be circumcised. The book of Galatians, written by apostle Paul was against the teachings of the Judaizers who tried to blend the Mosaic laws with the Gospel of grace.

Neither of you are understanding circumcision or Paul.

If you study Genesis 17 and 18, you will see that the covenant God made with Abraham established him as the Father of many. Study how his name was changed from a name meaning exalted Father to Abraham, or the father of many. He would be given the right to occupy the promised land, and be given the job of showing all people the gospel. Most important, Christ would be born from his line.

Circumcision had deep spiritual meaning, as they well knew. It wasn't the physical circumcision that was important, but the spiritual significance. They would be given the choice of being circumcised as a sign of all this, or not, just as we are given the choice of accepting Christ or not. Now that Christ came we don't need a sign.

This covenant includes the gentiles, as you will see if you read Genesis 17:12. In those days, if you bought a slave they became one of the family. To understand how we are adopted in, and how we become part of the family of God we need a thorough understanding of the explanation in Romans.

Gen 17:12 Throughout your generations every male among you shall be circumcised when he is eight days old, including the slave born in your house and the one bought with your money from any foreigner who is not of your offspring. Gen 17:13 Both the slave born in your house and the one bought with your money must be circumcised. So shall my covenant be in your flesh an everlasting covenant.
Gen 17:14 Any uncircumcised male who is not circumcised in the flesh of his foreskin shall be cut off from his people; he has broken my covenant."

 

[RedTent]

As Elin said, No Judaizers before the death of Christ. She is 100% correct. Christianity did not come into being until after the death of Christ and that is when the Judaizers came into being as they insisted Gentile believers should be circumcised. The book of Galatians, written by apostle Paul was against the teachings of the Judaizers who tried to blend the Mosaic laws with the Gospel of grace.

I don't see how you can read the bible and come to these conclusions. Judaizers are those who use what was spoken of before Christ, Christ was a Judaizer. Christ followed all the things that are ruled out today, Christ ate kosher, followed the feast days.

Man called people Christian after Christ came, but in God's world, Christ was from the beginning. It says so in the first verses of the gospel of John, and we find blood required for atonement of sins from the beginning of time. That blood always from the beginning, related to the blood that Christ shed for us.

The gospel of grace was also from the beginning of time. God never, ever, gave man the power to make themselves holy apart from Him, yet we know from the gospels that such as Moses and Elijah lived with God. Grace means that God is the one who can give forgiveness, it is not in man's hands to do.

If you carefully read the book of Galatians, it is against the idea that by doing the physical laws it is enough to complete the spiritual laws that God gives. THAT is the theme of the book, not the theme you give it of saying how TERRIBLE God was to give physical laws to lead.

 

[Elin]

Judaisim was in effect at least as far back as exile in Babylon. Thing is most call Yahweh;s Law "Judaisim" when Judaisim is the Talmud.

Mattithyah 15:2-3, "Why do Your disciples transgress the traditions of the elders? For they do not wash their hands when they eat. But He answered, and said to them:And why do you transgress the Laws of Yahweh by your traditions?"

Relevance to "Judaize" (Gal 2:14)?