Who wrote the 4 gospels of the New Testament and when?

[Willie-T]

History is written by the victors

History is also written in the manner in which you wish your own heroes to be seen... "wink".

 

[GrahamDennis]

Dr Keener seems to make no allowance for inspiration. The notion of dating by consensus rather than historical evidence is, IMO, a poor approach.

I wonder why Mathew,Mark,Luke and John never recorded any specific dates they witnessed Jesus's work? It seems to me the first thing anyone would do when writing a letter or commentary? The apostles obviously knew they were in the company of Jesus/God so why didn't they include this vital information? Surley it occurred to them that a lot of people didn't belive in Jesus and would want written provable evidence,they were after all all persecuted for there beliefs,what better way to defend yourself than with an accurate dated report that could be checked by your accusers? This is one of the main reasons I can't belive the apostles actually wrote the Gospels,even if they were subsequently translated into different languages there's one thing that for the Whole of eternity doesn't change,numbers! Be they Hebrew Aramaic,roman,Greek a number is un changeable so would give a specific date to events

 

[GrahamDennis]

History is also written in the manner in which you wish your own heroes to be seen... "wink".

very true sir and now we might just be getting to the real reason there are no specific dates of when these gospels were written contained in them or any specific dates of the various works of Jesus,dates can be checked and can't be changed in translation,a specific date in Hebrew,Aramaic ,Greek or roman is easy for scholars to check.It would of saved a lot of debate if Mathew Mark Luke and John had noted the date they witnessed such miricals wouldn't it?

 

[Willie-T]

You might enjoy this, Dennis...

History of the use of BCE/CE and AD/BC to identify dates

 

[MarcR]

I wonder why Mathew,Mark,Luke and John never recorded any specific dates they witnessed Jesus's work? It seems to me the first thing anyone would do when writing a letter or commentary? The apostles obviously knew they were in the company of Jesus/God so why didn't they include this vital information? Surley it occurred to them that a lot of people didn't belive in Jesus and would want written provable evidence,they were after all all persecuted for there beliefs,what better way to defend yourself than with an accurate dated report that could be checked by your accusers? This is one of the main reasons I can't belive the apostles actually wrote the Gospels,even if they were subsequently translated into different languages there's one thing that for the Whole of eternity doesn't change,numbers! Be they Hebrew Aramaic,roman,Greek a number is un changeable so would give a specific date to events

Since ALL NT writings are addressed to believers, with the intent to strengthen and encourage their faith; it is quite reasonable that they thought they were addressing their contemporaries and were not thinking about us who came later. God knew what He was doing, however; and I am not inclined to show Him how to do it better.

 

[GrahamDennis]

Since ALL NT writings are addressed to believers, with the intent to strengthen and encourage their faith; it is quite reasonable that they thought they were addressing their contemporaries and were not thinking about us who came later. God knew what He was doing, however; and I am not inclined to show Him how to do it better.

I'm sorry but I can't agree with you,Jesus told the apostles to spread the word,surley part of that word spreading is the Gospels? And even if they belived they were only addressing their contemporaries surely by including dates and being specific about when things actually happend would enhance the believability of such miraculous events,especially when two or more Appostles talk about the same event?

 

[GrahamDennis]

You might enjoy this, Dennis...

History of the use of BCE/CE and AD/BC to identify dates

Yes,very good,once again knowone seems to be able say EXACTLY when Jesus was born or died,all using different callenders,didn't the Jewish use dates from there history to record the exact year things happend? What I'm saying is in the lifetime of Jesus the Jew,wernt the jews recording the date of certain events,like the concensus that was being carried out where the Jewish had to register in their place of birth? Can't these recorded dates be aligned with the Roman dates recorded in thier records? I don't expect you yo be able to answer this in less your a date expert but it seems to me the society Jesus was born into was quite well advanced in terms of speaking and reading different languages so I would of thought the dating of important documents or even notes was happening then in everyday life just like today,from leaving a note to the milkman on your doorstep to depositing money at the bank we tend to date these things so the recipient of such a note or letter knows who sent it and when?

 

[GrahamDennis]

Mabey they should of written it down,in one instruction Jesus sends them out with only a staff and sandals,in another He tells them NOT to wear sandals? What do you think that means?

Are you not going to answer anymore?

 

[GrahamDennis]

What Jesus did was, sent them out to preach the kingdom of God and to heal. And he said to them, “Take nothing for your journey, no staff, nor bag, nor bread, nor money; and do not have two tunics. And whatever house you enter, stay there, and from there depart. And wherever they do not receive you, when you leave that town shake off the dust from your feet as a testimony against them.”

AND
And he called to him the twelve, and began to send them out two by two, and gave them authority over the unclean spirits. He charged them to take nothing for their journey except a staff; no bread, no bag, no money in their belts; 9 but to wear sandals and not put on two tunics. And he said to them, “Where you enter a house, stay there until you leave the place.And if any place will not receive you and they refuse to hear you, when you leave, shake off the dust that is on your feet for a testimony against them.”So they went out and preached that men should repent.And they cast out many demons, and anointed with oil many that were sick and healed them.

AND
... He said to them, “The harvest is plentiful, but the laborers are few; pray therefore the Lord of the harvest to send out laborers into his harvest. Go your way; behold, I send you out as lambs in the midst of wolves. Carry no purse, no bag, no sandals; and salute no one on the road. Whatever house you enter, first say, ‘Peace be to this house!’ And if a son of peace is there, your peace shall rest upon him; but if not, it shall return to you. And remain in the same house, eating and drinking what they provide, for the laborer deserves his wages; do not go from house to house. Whenever you enter a town and they receive you, eat what is set before you; heal the sick in it and say to them, ‘The kingdom of God has come near to you.’ But whenever you enter a town and they do not receive you, go into its streets and say,‘Even the dust of your town that clings to our feet, we wipe off against you; nevertheless know this, that the kingdom of God has come near.’I tell you, it shall be more tolerable on that day for Sodom than for that town.”

AND
He said to them, “When I sent you out with no purse or bag or sandals, did you lack anything?” They said, “Nothing.” He said to them, “But now, let him who has a purse take it, and likewise a bag. And let him who has no sword sell his mantle and buy one. For I tell you that this scripture must be fulfilled in me, ‘And he was reckoned with transgressors’; for what is written about me has its fulfilment.” And they said, “Look, Lord, here are two swords.” And he said to them, “It is enough.”

I see nothing about writing it down. They did as they had been explicitly instructed.

Mabey they should of written it down Magenta,in one instruction Jesus tells them not to wear sandals in another he tells them TO wear sandals? Any idea what's going on ?

 

[atwhatcost]

that's a good analogy,thank you,it's kind of the way I've been looking at it as well,what I can't understand is people now trying to relate these writings to the present day,or the "double phrophesise " where one prophecy supposedly relates to many events and people,stuff like Jesus had appeared before as other people in the Old Testament? This goes against the 2nd coming of Christ doesn't it? How many times has He been among us? Not to get to pedantic about it it but He was born a man to Mary,that's his first coming,he died on the cross and rose from the dead,that's his second coming are we waiting now for the third coming?

Oh yeah! No matter how you cut it, we're all looking forward to his third coming. It's the big finale where he rounds up his kids for an eternal love fest with him. That's what we were created to do, and for those of us following him that is what we long to do.

 

[Magenta]

Mabey they should of written it down Magenta,in one instruction Jesus tells them not to wear sandals in another he tells them TO wear sandals? Any idea what's going on ?

No, Jesus never told them not to wear sandals. What He did say was not to carry sandals, as in, don't take anything extra, which is made plain by the rest of what He instructed, e.g., but to wear sandals and not put on two tunics.

 

[GrahamDennis]

If this were the case, there would have been mention of the fall of Jerusalem and her temple. That would been unheard of for Jewish Christians to not even mention such a huge event in their lives.

I agree with you Tintin,they would mentioned the fall of the Temple in 70AD,I wonder if they would of included the date of this huge event,actually writing down the Hebrew date that the temple fell? As they didn't write down the dates that Jesus performed miricals I doubt it,even though they knew they were in the company of Jesus the Son of God walking amongst men on earth they didn't write down the date they witnessed His miricals ? Knowhere in ANY of the Gospels do any apostle say somthing like " on the 5th of September in year 30 ( whatever the Hebrew equivalent is ) I witnessed jesus cure a leper " I find this very important,it seems like common sence to me to date things

 

[atwhatcost]

as I'm led to belive,the apostles were all "normal ' men who worked for a living when they were called to serve and follow Jesus,I find it hard to belive fishermen and carpenters were multi lingual in Hebrew,Aramaic and Greek. I my self am a tradesman and know knowone who can speak more than 1 language Fluently let alone 3! I can understand some French and Spanish but only a few familiar words,this just doesn't sit right with me I'm afraid,unless of course the Holy Spirit enabled them to be multi lingual although I haven't read that anywhere in the NT

You're in the UK and only know monoglots? Don't you ever run into people who speak Gaelic, Scot, Welsh? It's kind of like that. When Rome conquered Greece, the Greek slaves were the teachers. Rome kept conquering, so most people ended up knowing Greek and their native language.

Maybe more like what new immigrants do in America. They come speaking their home language, but to communicate with Americans, they need to speak American too.

My neighborhood is mostly Italian. (They let us non-Italians live here too, but right now -- two blocks away -- is our Italian festival. Well, most of the US calls it Columbus Day, but the Italians celebrate that he's Italian. lol) Almost the whole neighborhood is off watching a parade and eating cannolis. They can live their whole lives never learning American, and yet they need enough people in their lives who speak both to communicate in both languages.

Most of those people who can speak both are their children. (And, by now, their children are ready to retire, so I'm not talking little kids.) Since Judah was Roman occupied, sure, even the common folk spoke Greek. And the type of Greek they spoke was like American -- American is both different than and the same language as the English speak. It's a low-brow language, but understandable to the English.

 

[GrahamDennis]

No, Jesus never told them not to wear sandals. What He did say was not to carry sandals, as in, don't take anything extra, which is made plain by the rest of what He instructed, e.g., but to wear sandals and not put on two tunics.

He said when I sent you out with no purse or bag or sandals did you lack anything? They said "nothing" Earlier you have Jesus saying they had sandals,as you say,only 1 pair because he didn't want them to take anything extra? Is this a typo or a clear mistake in scripture?

 

[Magenta]

I agree with you Tintin,they would mentioned the fall of the Temple in 70AD,I wonder if they would of included the date of this huge event,actually writing down the Hebrew date that the temple fell? As they didn't write down the dates that Jesus performed miricals I doubt it,even though they knew they were in the company of Jesus the Son of God walking amongst men on earth they didn't write down the date they witnessed His miricals ? Knowhere in ANY of the Gospels do any apostle say somthing like " on the 5th of September in year 30 ( whatever the Hebrew equivalent is ) I witnessed jesus cure a leper " I find this very important,it seems like common sence to me to date things

It seems common sense to me that you would know better than to continually say should of, could of, and would of, when saying should have, could have, and would have, is proper, or even should've, could've, and would've. See how our ideas of common sense differ? What seems sensible to you is senseless to others, especially given the fact that multiple times now you have been pointed the fact that they expected Jesus to return soon.

You selected: Friday, September 5, 1930

The corresponding Jewish date is: Elul 12, 5690

The calendar/date converter would not allow me to select year 30, or even 1030.

 

[Magenta]

He said when I sent you out with no purse or bag or sandals did you lack anything? They said "nothing" Earlier you have Jesus saying they had sandals,as you say,only 1 pair because he didn't want them to take anything extra? Is this a typo or a clear mistake in scripture?

He is not telling them not to wear anything, silly, are you suggesting they went naked also? Please use some common sense. Jesus was telling them not to take anything extra, and that is clearly stated in Scripture. He said not to carry anything, except the good news.

"Carry no money belt, no bag, no shoes..."

 

[GrahamDennis]

You're in the UK and only know monoglots? Don't you ever run into people who speak Gaelic, Scot, Welsh? It's kind of like that. When Rome conquered Greece, the Greek slaves were the teachers. Rome kept conquering, so most people ended up knowing Greek and their native language.

Maybe more like what new immigrants do in America. They come speaking their home language, but to communicate with Americans, they need to speak American too.

My neighborhood is mostly Italian. (They let us non-Italians live here too, but right now -- two blocks away -- is our Italian festival. Well, most of the US calls it Columbus Day, but the Italians celebrate that he's Italian. lol) Almost the whole neighborhood is off watching a parade and eating cannolis. They can live their whole lives never learning American, and yet they need enough people in their lives who speak both to communicate in both languages.

Most of those people who can speak both are their children. (And, by now, their children are ready to retire, so I'm not talking little kids.) Since Judah was Roman occupied, sure, even the common folk spoke Greek. And the type of Greek they spoke was like American -- American is both different than and the same language as the English speak. It's a low-brow language, but understandable to the English.

fair point,I agree it's possible they could speak more than 1 language,infact it's probable,ok how about this one,why didn't they write down the actual dates that they witnessed jesus perform miricals as in the relevant Hebrew or Greek date? It would seem like a logical thing to do to me when recording miraculous events when you know your in the company of Jesus the son of a God as they knew they were?

 

[valiant]

He said when I sent you out with no purse or bag or sandals did you lack anything? They said "nothing" Earlier you have Jesus saying they had sandals,as you say,only 1 pair because he didn't want them to take anything extra? Is this a typo or a clear mistake in scripture?

you are mixing up wearing sandals with 'taking sandals'. All would wear sandals but the worldly wise would also take sandals. When Jesus said that they had no 'purse, bag or sandals' He meant extra sandals. They went out in what they stood up in.

 

[Magenta]

you are mixing up wearing sandals with 'taking sandals'. All would wear sandals but the worldly wise would also take sandals. When Jesus said that they had no 'purse, bag or sandals' He meant extra sandals. They went out in what they stood up in.

I have mentioned that multiple times, and provided Scriptures to show it... and it occurs to me that they were to rely fully on God to supply all their needs, just as we are

 

[GrahamDennis]

He is not telling them not to wear anything, silly, are you suggesting they went naked also? Please use some common sense. Jesus was telling them not to take anything extra, and that is clearly stated in Scripture. He said not to carry anything, except the good news.

"Carry no money belt, no bag, no shoes..."

I didn't say they went naked,and Jesus didn't tell them to go naked,I get he told them to take the bear essentials not to carry sandals,not to take two tunics,that obviously means take only one tunic and 1 pair of sandals so of course they're not naked ,you said that not me,he DID however say " when I sent you out with no purse,no bag,NO SANDALS, did you lack anything? " nothing " the replied. The point I'm making is Jesus explicitly told them to take and wear sandals but then contradicts himself by asking if they lacked anything when he sent them out without a purse( no money) a bag ( nothing to carry ) and NO SANDALS ( so they were bear footed,)so,again,I'll respectfully ask without being condescending to you and calling you silly,is this a typo or a mistake in the inspired writings of the gospels?